I like Trains

[Rightguide]

Trains are more energy-efficient and less polluting. What America really needs is high-speed rail -- but, far more importantly, a greatly expanded network of conventional rail, as well as local commuter rail transportation in all metropolitan areas. Getting cars off the roads should be the goal.

Not really, even if you take a train to an available location, which are few, you still require a car to get to where you're actually going. Passenger rail is inefficient and costly and not very practical, Amtrak proves it.

 

[trysail]

Actually, it's the federal takeover and subsidization of Amtrak that kills its passenger business model. It has never made a profit in it's 40 plus years of service and has sucked up 40 plus billion in federal subsidies and it only accounts for 0.1% of passenger travel in America. Amtrak currently loses $54.50 per passenger and the Sunset Line between New Orleans and L.A. loses $390 per ticket. In 2010 Amtrak had 30 million passengers but still needed $560 million to cover their deficits. In contrasts airlines move two million people a day, 24 times as much, and still makes a profit. In the Washington-Boston corridor passenger rail only accounts for 0.5% of all inner city trips.

Amtrak makes tons of money in the Northeast corridor.

The whole reason Amtrak loses money is because the goddamned politicos FORCE it to run money-losing routes outside the highly profitable Northeast.



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[trysail]

Not really, even if you take a train to an available location, which are few, you still require a car to get to where you're actually going. Passenger rail is inefficient and costly and not very practical, Amtrak proves it.

Nothing could be further from the truth.


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[KingOrfeo]

Not really, even if you take a train to an available location, which are few, you still require a car to get to where you're actually going.

But you drive many fewer miles and burn much less gas than if you had driven the whole distance. And you might not have to drive at all if the city has a local subway or light rail or bus system.

Passenger rail is inefficient and costly and not very practical, Amtrak proves it.

Rail transport often requires some public subsidy, but it's well worth it, ask any Euro or Japanese.

 

[Rightguide]

Most European cities could not operate without rail transport of passengers. With the spread of high speed services across Europe, city centre to city centre travel is often faster (and far more comfortable) than air travel.

In the United States where the distances are vast and destinations widespread they are impractical for moving people. In a city that goes up instead out they are practical for subways, but in the west where cities go out in every direction instead of up they are too limited to be a practical mover of people and way too inaccessible to most people. There are millions of locations in America accessible by car but not by train. Mass transportation only suits a very small percentage of the population.

 

[trysail]

But you drive many fewer miles and burn much less gas than if you had driven the whole distance. And you might not have to drive at all if the city has a local subway or light rail or bus system.



Rail transport often requires some public subsidy, but it's well worth it, ask any Euro or Japanese.

Get the frickin' dumbass government out of picking and choosing. When you get the stupid bureau-rats and corrupt politicos involved, you end up with bribery, constructive bribery, influence-peddling and the completely inefficient allocation of capital.



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[Rightguide]

But you drive many fewer miles and burn much less gas than if you had driven the whole distance. And you might not have to drive at all if the city has a local subway or light rail or bus system.



Rail transport often requires some public subsidy, but it's well worth it, ask any Euro or Japanese.

Lots of cities have shuttle systems but they are too small to satisfy the demand of the entire local popluation. You see buses every day with only three or four people in them, a huge costly infrastructure to the taxpayer for the benefit of only an unjustifiable few. It would be cheaper to give those people a credit card for use in their local taxi service.

 

[trysail]

In the Northeast corridor, Amtrak makes money hand over fist.


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[KingOrfeo]

In the United States where the distances are vast and destinations widespread they are impractical for moving people.

Trains have proved very practical in China, which is comparable to the U.S. in scale and distances, and in Russia, where the distances are even vaster.

 

[trysail]

You're an idiot.

Ain't that the truth !!






____________________

"Liberal is a form of mental disorder. It is most effectively treated by repeated doses of reality."




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[KingOrfeo]

Fast but not efficient. Railroads account for less than 1% of passenger-miles in the United States. Highways account for almost 87 percent of passenger miles. Air carriers almost 12%. So as we see the market has determined the cheapest most efficient methods of moving people.

Popularity is not evidence of efficiency. SUVs are inefficient in that they get crappy gas mileage, but you'll still see plenty of them on the roads and not so many hybrids.

You're an idiot.

Whatever I am, I'm not wrong. The mere fact that an auto-centered transportation system is the one we have now does not prove it is efficient.

 

[trysail]

http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/multimedia-gallery/photos/ns-2015-calendaroctober/_jcr_content/feature.img.jpg/1459255359988.jpg



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[Hard_Rom]

But...but America is exceptional! What works in the rest of the world won't work there. Give up their cars! Shit will give up their guns first!

 

[KingOrfeo]

But...but America is exceptional! What works in the rest of the world won't work there. Give up their cars! Shit will give up their guns first!

What I'm envisioning is a future where about as many Americans own cars as now, but put a lot less mileage on them each year than they do now. What local public transit works best for is commuting; ride some sort of train to work and home again, then in the evening you can drive your car to the supermarket or the movie theater. As for long-distance trips, HSR is almost as fast as flying and a lot more comfortable than flying or driving, and when you arrive you'll find a train station is a lot easier to get out of than an airport, and when you exit you'll probably be in a walkable downtown area and won't need a cab or rental car immediately.

 

[trysail]

http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/multimedia-gallery/photos/norfolk-southern611locomotive/_jcr_content/feature.img.jpg/1426868445195.jpg


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[toeskr]

i have that song stuck in my head again.

Blackfoot?
Seems to come on often as I am traveling to the depot.

 

[Rightguide]

Whatever I am, I'm not wrong. The mere fact that an auto-centered transportation system is the one we have now does not prove it is efficient.

It is if you want to get from point A to point B efficiently and at less cost. For instance, if I wanted to leave Los Angeles on Amtrak today and go to New York Penn Station for two adults the ticket price is $910.00 (Coach) one way, $1940.00-$2313.00 for Premium (first class) one way depending on which day I left, and get there in 43 hours. I can do the same in a car for less than half as much of the coach cost.

 

[juttjaw]

It is if you want to get from point A to point B efficiently and at less cost. For instance, if I wanted to leave Los Angeles on Amtrak today and go to New York Penn Station for two adults the ticket price is $910.00 (Coach) one way, $1940.00-$2313.00 for Premium (first class) one way depending on which day I left, and get there in 43 hours. I can do the same in a car for less than half as much of the coach cost.

And how many trains run cross country? Passenger that is. One. Amtrak. More high-speed lines mean more high speed trains. Supply and demand. Demand is high, supply is low. Simple math.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It is if you want to get from point A to point B efficiently and at less cost.

Cost is not the only and usually not the most important measure of efficiency.

 

[Rightguide]

Cost is not the only and usually not the most important measure of efficiency.

To most people it is. Not everyone is a wild ass ideologue willing to kick out that much money just to get to New York by rail when they have cheaper means. This is why rail accounts for less than 1% of American passenger miles.

 

[KingOrfeo]

To most people it is. Not everyone is a wild ass ideologue willing to kick out that much money just to get to New York by rail when they have cheaper means. This is why rail accounts for less than 1% of American passenger miles.

Not because of the cost, I think, but because we have a crappy passenger rail system. A better one would also be cheaper -- supply and demand -- and if still more expensive than driving, many would gladly pay the cost. After all, you can get anywhere in the continental U.S. by driving, yet many choose to shell out more money to fly.

 

[Rightguide]

Rail transport often requires some public subsidy, but it's well worth it, ask any Euro or Japanese.

Amtrak fails because it's run by the gov't. You'll notice the private sector hasn't established a working passenger rail line since the 80s and very few investors are willing to support what they see as a failing model. There are a couple of companies now trying to open small private rail commuter services, but there are a lot of reasons it will fail. Here's a short AP article on the subject:

The U.S.’s First Private Passenger Rail in 30 Years Departs in 2017
Amy Anthony, Associated Press - Aug 08, 2015 9:01 am


https://skift.com/2015/08/08/the-u-s-s-first-private-passenger-rail-in-30-years-departs-in-2017/

 

[Rightguide]

Not because of the cost, I think, but because we have a crappy passenger rail system. A better one would also be cheaper -- supply and demand -- and if still more expensive than driving, many would gladly pay the cost. After all, you can get anywhere in the continental U.S. by driving, yet many choose to shell out more money to fly.

I can buy a roundtrip ticket from L.A. to New York leaving tomorrow for $381.

And if I wait until next Thursday I can buy it for $289, add another week and I can buy it for $189.

 

[trysail]

The nicest, most relaxing way to get to Manhattan:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Acela_old_saybrook_ct_summer2011.jpg/640px-Acela_old_saybrook_ct_summer2011.jpg


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[KingOrfeo]

Amtrak fails because it's run by the gov't.

Nothing fails because it's run by the government, not even the VA.