If I were God, I'd squash this man like a bug.
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Joe Wordsworth
Logician
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Originally posted by The Mutt
Well, I was willing to let this enjoyable tete a tete go on ad infinitum, but when you said that POTUS is not the most powerful person in the world I realized that the elevator doesn't go all the way to the top of your ivory tower. You should be doing your homework anyway.
I really do want to suggest that you blow a number, drink some dark beer and have some sweaty sex with a bohemian girl with hairy armpits who reads poetry at the coffee house. That's what college is all about. You'll have 40 more years to be a prig.
And, Tiger fan that I am, I leave you with this thought:
Q: What did the Ole Miss philosophy major say to the pornographer?
A: "Is it within the realm of rational possibility that you might require fries with that?"
The President of the United States is reasonably powerful--that its a democracy does adjust some things a little. I'd say the Pope is more influential, more powerful, though. That is a perfectly reasonable candidate.
So, instead of approaching the topic, you just feel the need to berate the quality of my undergraduate degree in philosophy? It is possible that you have recieved a philosophy degree at some superior instutition, but would you please tell me where I am insufficiently instructed? Or are you going to dance around /that/ question as well?
Your "commandments of Reason" don't really speak well, though, for quality formal instruction in logic.
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Don't I know you?
minsue
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The Mutt said:
(oh my god. I never thought about it. I'm a pornographer!)
http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/lachen/lachtot.gif
Pure
Fiel a Verdad
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sher said to The Mutt,
I don't find the crucifiction comforting either. But as a plotline, it defines courage and self-sacrifice as well as anything I've ever read. Consider it from the perspective of the original readers of the story; crucifiction was fairly common in the territories were the Romans were laying down the law and like most legal systems, theirs probably extended capital punishment to a higher percentage of the poor and powerless.
The earthly reprepsentative of the Ultimate Power subjects himself to the ultimate horror that can be inflicted on the powerless. It's a populist message that's remarkable for a few reasons, not the least of which is how effectively it's been used to promote and protect the concentration of power in the hands of shrewd organizations and individuals.
I'm much closer to the Mutt on this. It's a kind of legerdemain if a God brings forth a Man-God to die to expiate the sins of Man in the sight of God. Esp. if the Man-God can't die; i.e., face eternal oblivion like the rest of us.
(I'm not entirely sure I read sher correctly on this, and what status or claims she makes about the 'plotline', in particular, whether she would concede it's likely mythic.)
If you think you're God's son and your essential God being can't die (a later formula), then where's the courage?
There are various crucifixion stories, a fact not mentioned by sher (if she's referring to actual events; I can't exactly be sure).
What exactly happened is unknown. POSSIBLY Jesus accepted his death with dignity-- maybe because the odd prophet had likewise been killed. POSSIBLY he thought he'd be snatched up from the cross and or 'saved' in some other way, hence the "My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Ignored also is that there's no evidence the death of Jesus made any impact on the general populace, any more than the death of other Jewish agitators (or persons seized for any number of reasons). Likewise, the remaining disciples (original inner circle) seem mostly to have disappeared from history, after the Crucifixion. Paul pretty much carries the torch (Paul apparently lacking all direct contact with Jesus, including presence at the crucifixion).
Re: The earthly representative of the Ultimate Power subjects himself to the ultimate horror that can be inflicted on the powerless.
This 'spin' on the events is 50-100 years after the fact. I'm not sure whether sher agrees with this.
"subjects himself" is particularly tendentious. Lots of Jewish folks who were suspicious or agitators or just chosen as examples died on posts or crosses. It's far from clear if Jesus subjected himself to this, or was just 'scooped' (subjected) like the rest.
Further, if he did seek it, AND believed in his immortality, it's hardly so courageous, so much as delusional. It would not be, for him, 'the ultimate horror.'
The later 'myth'/legend that did indeed appeal to the populace
(what's in italics, just above). Perhaps that what sher intends to say.
IOW, it took Christianity a while to propound the right formula-- as in Nicene Creed-- 'for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was crucified, dead and buried....'
I do like the final remark, though I'm not entirely sure I get all of it.
It's a populist message that's remarkable for a few reasons, not the least of which is how effectively it's been used to promote and protect the concentration of power in the hands of shrewd organizations and individuals.
I can't tell if 'populist message' is said tongue in cheek. As the latter part of the sentence suggests, the glorification of the poor, believing they're favored by God, in fact, accompanied some pretty traditional earthly power arrangements, from Constantine onwards. Only a tiny minority of Christians set themselves up against the 'state' where they lived, beginning with the Roman one. For recognizing Roman authority on this earth seems to have been part of Jesus' "populist" message.
I don't find the crucifiction comforting either. But as a plotline, it defines courage and self-sacrifice as well as anything I've ever read. Consider it from the perspective of the original readers of the story; crucifiction was fairly common in the territories were the Romans were laying down the law and like most legal systems, theirs probably extended capital punishment to a higher percentage of the poor and powerless.
The earthly reprepsentative of the Ultimate Power subjects himself to the ultimate horror that can be inflicted on the powerless. It's a populist message that's remarkable for a few reasons, not the least of which is how effectively it's been used to promote and protect the concentration of power in the hands of shrewd organizations and individuals.
I'm much closer to the Mutt on this. It's a kind of legerdemain if a God brings forth a Man-God to die to expiate the sins of Man in the sight of God. Esp. if the Man-God can't die; i.e., face eternal oblivion like the rest of us.
(I'm not entirely sure I read sher correctly on this, and what status or claims she makes about the 'plotline', in particular, whether she would concede it's likely mythic.)
If you think you're God's son and your essential God being can't die (a later formula), then where's the courage?
There are various crucifixion stories, a fact not mentioned by sher (if she's referring to actual events; I can't exactly be sure).
What exactly happened is unknown. POSSIBLY Jesus accepted his death with dignity-- maybe because the odd prophet had likewise been killed. POSSIBLY he thought he'd be snatched up from the cross and or 'saved' in some other way, hence the "My God, why hast thou forsaken me."
Ignored also is that there's no evidence the death of Jesus made any impact on the general populace, any more than the death of other Jewish agitators (or persons seized for any number of reasons). Likewise, the remaining disciples (original inner circle) seem mostly to have disappeared from history, after the Crucifixion. Paul pretty much carries the torch (Paul apparently lacking all direct contact with Jesus, including presence at the crucifixion).
Re: The earthly representative of the Ultimate Power subjects himself to the ultimate horror that can be inflicted on the powerless.
This 'spin' on the events is 50-100 years after the fact. I'm not sure whether sher agrees with this.
"subjects himself" is particularly tendentious. Lots of Jewish folks who were suspicious or agitators or just chosen as examples died on posts or crosses. It's far from clear if Jesus subjected himself to this, or was just 'scooped' (subjected) like the rest.
Further, if he did seek it, AND believed in his immortality, it's hardly so courageous, so much as delusional. It would not be, for him, 'the ultimate horror.'
The later 'myth'/legend that did indeed appeal to the populace
(what's in italics, just above). Perhaps that what sher intends to say.
IOW, it took Christianity a while to propound the right formula-- as in Nicene Creed-- 'for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, was crucified, dead and buried....'
I do like the final remark, though I'm not entirely sure I get all of it.
It's a populist message that's remarkable for a few reasons, not the least of which is how effectively it's been used to promote and protect the concentration of power in the hands of shrewd organizations and individuals.
I can't tell if 'populist message' is said tongue in cheek. As the latter part of the sentence suggests, the glorification of the poor, believing they're favored by God, in fact, accompanied some pretty traditional earthly power arrangements, from Constantine onwards. Only a tiny minority of Christians set themselves up against the 'state' where they lived, beginning with the Roman one. For recognizing Roman authority on this earth seems to have been part of Jesus' "populist" message.
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Lisa Denton
Can nipples explode?
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sweetsubsarahh said:
Ooooooooooh, hi sweetsubsarahh, I love jello. Is it really good for converting sinners at church socials? I never knew there was 16 different flavors. I learn so much here. I give you a thumbs up. I am going to post a pic if I don't get struck dead by a lightning bolt. See ya.
cloudy
Alabama Slammer
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The Mutt said:I'm talking about the University of Memphis. Which Tigers are you close to?
I was thinking about Auburn - either the Tigers, or War Eagles, depending on who you ask.
University of Tennessee, and Tennessee Tech Alum here.
Go Vols!
The Mutt
Cunnilingus Ergo Sum
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The "populist" message that preachers have been spewing for centuries is, "Accept your lowly lot in life. Everything will be better when you are dead." African Americans traded the slavery of the plantation for the slavery of the Bible.
The powerful use the preachers to keep the people ignorant and docile.
The Lord is not my shephard. I am no one's sheep.
The powerful use the preachers to keep the people ignorant and docile.
The Lord is not my shephard. I am no one's sheep.
The Mutt
Cunnilingus Ergo Sum
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Actually, I don't really follow college sports. I just say things like that because it is expected. I was studying Theatre Arts at Memphis State (as it was known then), but dropped out to play Christian in a production of Cyrano De Bergerac. I kept getting work, so I never saw much need in going back. As Mark Twain said, "Don't let your schooling interfere with your education."The Mutt said:VOLS!?! ack gack kaf kaf
I forgive you, my child.
Christian. Ironic, eh?
cloudy
Alabama Slammer
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The Mutt said:Actually, I don't really follow college sports. I just say things like that because it is expected. I was studying Theatre Arts at Memphis State (as it was known then), but dropped out to play Christian in a production of Cyrano De Bergerac. I kept getting work, so I never saw much need in going back. As Mark Twain said, "Don't let your schooling interfere with your education."
Christian. Ironic, eh?
I don't follow them either, but I must admit, I dearly love going to Tennessee football games....not so much to watch the game, but just because it's a hell of a party.
The Mutt
Cunnilingus Ergo Sum
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Yeah, college sports has an energy and excitement the pros can't match. My mother actually enrolled at MSU after she retired and attended for years just so she could get tickets to Tiger basketball games. She finally graduated at the age of 67.cloudy said:
Virtual_Burlesque
Former Ecdysiast
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YAWN!ABSTRUSE said:
Send me an email if anyone discovers the BATCAVE!
The Mutt
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BUSH/SATAN 2004
The Bush campaign said they have absolutely no connection what-so-ever to the ads attacking Kerry's war record and that the guy who works for their campaign who appears in those ads has been let go.
"With a big, ol' lie and a flag and a pie and a bomb and a Bible some folks is just liable to buy any lie, any place, any time."
--Frank Zappa
The Bush campaign said they have absolutely no connection what-so-ever to the ads attacking Kerry's war record and that the guy who works for their campaign who appears in those ads has been let go.
"With a big, ol' lie and a flag and a pie and a bomb and a Bible some folks is just liable to buy any lie, any place, any time."
--Frank Zappa
Virtual_Burlesque
Former Ecdysiast
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The Mutt said:
These days some even go BYOL Bring Your Own Lie.
Lucifer_Carroll
GOATS!!!
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The Mutt said:
I denounce this defamation of character. I declined the offer of running mate to Bush citing that he could no longer sell his soul for the presidency and would have to rely on my lesser system of corrupted politics and outdated electoral institutions. I accepted the soul of a baby he ritually slaughtered to insure this lesser apparatus would work for him in 2000, but he has yet to call back re: 2004 though I know he's been doing frantic deals with Beelzebub, my marketing director, to keep all of the pro-terror actions of his cabinet out of the mainstream press and to keep election focus on Kerry's character.
So, as I said, I will not be running with Bush this 2004, but I'm confident archdemon Cheney will be able to do wonders in the human body he's possessing.
I know this is a blow for all who were hoping for a dream Republican ticket, but You feeble mortals don't deserve that mercy.
amicus
Literotica Guru
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It is only borderline amusing to see the Liberals throw in the white towel as they see, without doubt, that Kerry is done, finished, over, kaput...(aka 'swift boat purple hearts)
The betting now is on for 2008, Hillary and McCain, the Vegas odds are for McCain.
Four more years! of entertainment...who could ask for anything more?
amicus the irrepressible...
The betting now is on for 2008, Hillary and McCain, the Vegas odds are for McCain.
Four more years! of entertainment...who could ask for anything more?
amicus the irrepressible...
