If Men Could Menstruate

[Dar~]

Heh, you sweet talker you!

Well, you know what they say...Flattery will get you everywhere!

I'm hoping it'll get me there...

 

[Belegon]

Do I, or Starrkers,seem like people you need to piss off? Perhaps you figure that by patronising me you are giving me a chance to be nice about it-- as you say women should be.

But really, neither you nor The Earl need to be pissed off about some women blowing off steam. It isn't about you, not at all.

I respect both of you quite a lot, and I'd request the same from you, and that you allow me to be the judge of what's appropriate for me to say, when, and where. I don't feel that I need patronising advice on the subject of tolerance. I've practised it for many a year, as a woman, as a dyke, as a leatherqueer, as an atheist.

This thread might be a place where I might be able to make jokes that express some of the frustration I feel once in a while, as the result of living for fifty years in a female body-- for so very many reasons, biological, sexual, social, and political.

As I mentioned in the atheism thread (The one that was threadjacked and became a theology/mysticism thread) I don't go running to EL's Christian Writer's thread to let them know that I don't believe in God, it wouldn't be respectful. Likewise, I don't go running around trumpeting any disdain of mankind, and I certainly don't feel any such emotion.

I think that I will continue to enjoy this joke in this thread and ignore the folks that come to this thread to complain about my enjoyment of this joke in this thread. "This sort of vitriol" (Thirty years ago? If only that were true!) can stay in this thread. You know where it is now, and you needn't read it if you don't wish to. That would be respectful of you. Pretend it's your chance to prove that you, the misunderstood minority, are better than the oppressive majority. Enjoy!

with all due respect. I like you too... but this is a thread that was started by an attempt at humor that I didn't appreciate as much as others did and now I'm saying so.

I remember a certain commercial in the Super Bowl that really upset you. Others didn't think it was so bad. Now, I'm in the position of being the one who is offended and others are saying, "Can't you see it's just comedy?"

I'm not backing down on this. And I deny that I am being patronizing. The part you quoted was posted in direct response to a comment about a mirror being held up. I was refuting it.

My position remains the same that it has since the beginning of this thread. Two wrongs don't make a right. It is not positive to respond to ridicule with more ridicule. And that Steinam piece is ridicule. It is designed to objectify men, to group them together as a single unit and say that if they had to deal with what women have to deal with, they couldn't handle it. Here are some funny ways they would respond. It's not designed to just make people laugh, it's designed to make them laugh by making fun of another group.

ETA: Okay, maybe the "you're old enough to know better" comment was not a good start. I'll take the blame on that one.

but this:
Generals, right-wing politicians, and religious fundamentalists would cite menstruation ("men-struation") as proof that only men could serve God and country in combat ("You have to give blood to take blood"), occupy high political office ("Can women be properly fierce without a monthly cycle governed by the planet Mars?")

That hardly seems to be other than irrelevant and inflammatory in a time when the leading democratic candidates for president are a black and a woman and the Secretary of State is both!

And this:
Perhaps you figure that by patronising me you are giving me a chance to be nice about it-- as you say women should be.

This is flat out misquoting me and twisting my words. What I said was closer to saying that to be mean back to someone that was being mean to you only escalated the level of mean. Evidence of which seems to be this thread.

and this:
Pretend it's your chance to prove that you, the misunderstood minority, are better than the oppressive majority. Enjoy!

I honestly don't feel like I deserved that. And I'm sorry that you apparently do.

 

[Stella_Omega]

with all due respect. I like you too... but this is a thread that was started by an attempt at humor that I didn't appreciate as much as others did and now I'm saying so.

I remember a certain commercial in the Super Bowl that really upset you. Others didn't think it was so bad. Now, I'm in the position of being the one who is offended and others are saying, "Can't you see it's just comedy?"

I'm not backing down on this. And I deny that I am being patronizing. The part you quoted was posted in direct response to a comment about a mirror being held up. I was refuting it.

My position remains the same that it has since the beginning of this thread. Two wrongs don't make a right. It is not positive to respond to ridicule with more ridicule. And that Steinam piece is ridicule. It is designed to objectify men, to group them together as a single unit and say that if they had to deal with what women have to deal with, they couldn't handle it. Here are some funny ways they would respond. It's not designed to just make people laugh, it's designed to make them laugh by making fun of another group.

ETA: Okay, maybe the "you're old enough to know better" comment was not a good start. I'll take the blame on that one.

but this:
Generals, right-wing politicians, and religious fundamentalists would cite menstruation ("men-struation") as proof that only men could serve God and country in combat ("You have to give blood to take blood"), occupy high political office ("Can women be properly fierce without a monthly cycle governed by the planet Mars?")

That hardly seems to be other than irrelevant and inflammatory in a time when the leading democratic candidates for president are a black and a woman and the Secretary of State is both!

Black women do menstruate, yes, but other than that, I don't see where race comes into the joke-- unless you're somehow hearing her say that black men already do menstruate. can't be. Could it?


Well, Bel you're right about that TV commercial, and in fact, during that discussion I figured out that I was looking at the humor wrong, and that in fact it was funny. On the other hand what I objected to in that commercial was what I percieved as the implied threat of violence to queers- a group that has had plenty of violence threatened already. As in- they get beat the fuck up, once in a while.

But Bel, one of the main dialogues, one of the main issues between men and women in the public, private and political arenas is exactly that- that women cannot handle the mood swings that go along with menstruation. I could give you comment after comment on the subject.

"God got her periods mixed up. She's mean for three weeks and nice for one."

"Give her chocolate, or give her a gun"

"Why do women call it PMS? Because mad cow disease was already taken!"

"What do you call a women with ESP and PMT?
A bitch that knows everything."



What Gloria's joke is saying is twofold;

One, that men wouldn't handle this problem any better that women do.
Two, that if men had to deal with it, there would be more political and social support available.

She might not be saying it in a way that suits your delicate sensibilities, and there is definitely more support for women now than there was back then-- but I think she might have a teensy-weensy point.

 

[Dar~]

http://www.moviehabit.com/photos/miss_congeniality_150.jpg
http://p.vtourist.com/2460889-Travel_Picture-World_Peace_we_can_do_it.jpg

 

[Belegon]

I'm hardly saying we are finished with the journey. We are not yet in a position of true equality. We are, indeed, a very long ways from it still. But I stand by my position that standing up and refusing to call people names back is a more proper response, if a more difficult one.

And you're right, of course, that I'm mixing the various threads I've been posting in with the race issue. It is irrelevant here, save as an indicator that we have progressed socially since Gloria first wrote this piece.

I don't like this kind of humor, regardless of the target. I flat out resent being painted as part of the problem. Search and find me a place were I have ever made a joke of that kind. You won't find one. And I don't like Gloria Steinam or her approach. Never did.

There are parts of that piece I find funny... I can totally see the guys I grew up with joking about how heavy they flowed and what a man they were to fight through it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm hardly saying we are finished with the journey. We are not yet in a position of true equality. We are, indeed, a very long ways from it still. But I stand by my position that standing up and refusing to call people names back is a more proper response, if a more difficult one.

now's your chance, (she said, smiling evilly,) to practice what you preach, awallow your bile, speak the soft words that drive away wrath. And I do it almost all of the time myself. But I'm just a normal type human and some days--
There are some days, and you could ask any black man about this, (even more than I who am white)-- when WHAT you ARE is borne upon you minute by minute. It's... frustrating. It's grinding. It gets hard to bear the burden so blithely required by YOU, Bel, and The Earl, of comporting myself in a way befitting the Representative for all Feminism. Mostly, I don't fucking feel like it.

And you're right, of course, that I'm mixing the various threads I've been posting in with the race issue. It is irrelevant here, save as an indicator that we have progressed socially since Gloria first wrote this piece.

Not as much as we would like, though, and it impinges on many lives. Women lose jobs because of their mood swings, dude! Women STILL don't get paid commensurate with men!

I don't like this kind of humor, regardless of the target. I flat out resent being painted as part of the problem.

And I flat-out resent being asked to represent my entire sex. Hell, a large number of my sex see me as an outsider for my religious preferences, about seventy percent of the lesbian community don't like my leather, and some of the leather dykes hate it that I would, in fact, prefer to have been born with a dick than a pussy. I don't really feel that I am an accurate representation. I hereby abdicate all political responsibility for my sense of humor. It's gallows anyway, in this context.

Search and find me a place were I have ever made a joke of that kind. You won't find one. And I don't like Gloria Steinam or her approach. Never did.

Dude, of course you don't like her-- she wasn't writing for you though, was she?

There are parts of that piece I find funny... I can totally see the guys I grew up with joking about how heavy they flowed and what a man they were to fight through it.

Some girls do make those jokes amongst themselves.
Ask those same guys if they have any jokes about their girlfriends' PMT

 

[Dar~]

now's your chance, (she said, smiling evilly,) to practice what you preach, awallow your bile, speak the soft words that drive away wrath. And I do it almost all of the time myself. But I'm just a normal type human and some days--
There are some days, and you could ask any black man about this, (even more than I who am white)-- when WHAT you ARE is borne upon you minute by minute. It's... frustrating. It's grinding. It gets hard to bear the burden so blithely required by YOU, Bel, and The Earl, of comporting myself in a way befitting the Representative for all Feminism. Mostly, I don't fucking feel like it.
Not as much as we would like, though, and it impinges on many lives. Women lose jobs because of their mood swings, dude! Women STILL don't get paid commensurate with men!
And I flat-out resent being asked to represent my entire sex. Hell, a large number of my sex see me as an outsider for my religious preferences, about seventy percent of the lesbian community don't like my leather, and some of the leather dykes hate it that I would, in fact, prefer to have been born with a dick than a pussy. I don't really feel that I am an accurate representation. I hereby abdicate all political responsibility for my sense of humor. It's gallows anyway, in this context. Dude, of course you don't like her-- she wasn't writing for you though, was she?

Some girls do make those jokes amongst themselves.
Ask those same guys if they have any jokes about their girlfriends' PMT

I am lovin' the love in this thread...
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/154000/154166FKnJ_w.jpg

 

[Stella_Omega]

I am lovin' the love in this thread...
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/154000/154166FKnJ_w.jpg

I sound like I'm on the rag, don't I?

 

[Dar~]

I sound like I'm on the rag, don't I?

I think you may have your tampon in the wrong hole...

 

[Liar]

But Bel, one of the main dialogues, one of the main issues between men and women in the public, private and political arenas is exactly that- that women cannot handle the mood swings that go along with menstruation. I could give you comment after comment on the subject.

"God got her periods mixed up. She's mean for three weeks and nice for one."

"Give her chocolate, or give her a gun"

"Why do women call it PMS? Because mad cow disease was already taken!"

"What do you call a women with ESP and PMT?
A bitch that knows everything."

I know I'm late to the party, but those are not comments made my men. Those are comments made by idiots. That's the common denominator.

Because if they're made by men, than I can't be a man. And I am. There's a dangly thingy between my legs.

So let's hold a mirror up at idiots. That'll be relevant, needed, and funny.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think you may have your tampon in the wrong hole...

Will you come help sort it out?

Liar, sorry, dude.
Your sex includes a lot of idiots, mine includes a lot of chocolate eaters. These cliches are, unfortunately, undeniable.

 

[starrkers]

Will you come help sort it out?

Liar, sorry, dude.
Your sex includes a lot of idiots, mine includes a lot of chocolate eaters. These cliches are, unfortunately, undeniable.

And the fact that I don't like chocolate does not mean that those that eat chocolate are not perceived as the majority.

eta: Damn, I think I out-convoluted myself!

 

[Belegon]

I never said the burden was light.

Think I don't carry a measure of it, too? Ever been assumed to be racist? Sexist? I'm constantly assumed to be Christian. They assume I'll laugh at the jokes. I don't, and I tell them when they ask why.

None of our burdens are necessarily light. That does not mean they are not worth carrying.

And I get just as sick of it as you do.

We may, on occassion, stand on different fronts. But we are fighting the same war. It would be best if all of us remember it, me as well as you. I took offense at this thread in an amount disproportionate to it's importance because today I am tired of having people assume the worst common denominator about me.

ETA: I like chocolate.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I never said the burden was light.

Think I don't carry a measure of it, too? Ever been assumed to be racist? Sexist? I'm constantly assumed to be Christian. They assume I'll laugh at the jokes. I don't, and I tell them when they ask why.

None of our burdens are necessarily light. That does not mean they are not worth carrying.

And I get just as sick of it as you do.

We may, on occassion, stand on different fronts. But we are fighting the same war. It would be best if all of us remember it, me as well as you. I took offense at this thread in an amount disproportionate to it's importance because today I am tired of having people assume the worst common denominator about me.

ETA: I like chocolate.

And when we get tired we start snapping at each other, don't we.

 

[Liar]

Will you come help sort it out?

Liar, sorry, dude.
Your sex includes a lot of idiots, mine includes a lot of chocolate eaters. These cliches are, unfortunately, undeniable.

Well, hey, I chuckled at it. But then again, I can chuckle at misogynous woman-cliché humor too. As long as yer cool wif dat.

 

[Belegon]

And when we get tired we start snapping at each other, don't we.

Yes...sadly. But we recover and keep fighting our battles where we can.

I respect your fight and you and I'm sorry if I said something to upset you.

 

[Dar~]

Will you come help sort it out?

Liar, sorry, dude.
Your sex includes a lot of idiots, mine includes a lot of chocolate eaters. These cliches are, unfortunately, undeniable.

Mmmm chocolate...

 

[damppanties]

not wanting to be harsh...please don't take it harshly...

no, the answer is most certainly not "no all the time".

Like I said, the answer varies. I wasn't going to speak to my personal life, since it seemed to be TMI... but I have engaged in it at that time and I'm certain I will again. It doesn't really throw me off. It's messy, though.

However, there have been several women in my own personal experience who would prefer that I not indulge my oral fixation at that time of the month.

Haven't taken it harshly at all... I was just surprised. I think my personal ick factor is too high against this so I just hadn't thought about people doing it at that time and hadn't heard about it either. Now, educated. Thank you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, hey, I chuckled at it. But then again, I can chuckle at misogynous woman-cliché humor too. As long as yer cool wif dat.

AS long as I'm not on the rag

Truly, my sense of humor has broadened and dare I say, coarsened over the last ten years. A lot of stuff is funny to me now that would have been offensive when I was younger. Like, um... Gloria Steinem's jokes. And Lightbulb jokes.


How many Californians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

They don't screw in lightbulbs, they screw in hot tubs!

 

[Dar~]

AS long as I'm not on the rag

Truly, my sense of humor has broadened and dare I say, coarsened over the last ten years. A lot of stuff is funny to me now that would have been offensive when I was younger. Like, um... Gloria Steinem's jokes. And Lightbulb jokes.


How many Californians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

They don't screw in lightbulbs, they screw in hot tubs!

Q: How many mice does it take to screw in a lightbulb??
A: Two, the problem is getting them in there.

 

[MrsDeathlynx]

Have you ever heard anyone ask, "My girlfriend is on her period, can I still give her cunnilingus?" I haven't.

I think this is the first time I typed the word 'cunnilingus'. Yay!

Will reread this whole thread and respond, but right now I have to answer this, lol.

Actually my hubby and I figured out a way to do it without getting messy, mostly because a full 7 days for me to go without is not a fun thing to be around, lol. At first we didn't, but when I figured out a way boy was I happy! He actually does that more often when I am on my period then making love cause there's no way to stop that mess then...

 

[Stella_Omega]

Will reread this whole thread and respond, but right now I have to answer this, lol.

Actually my hubby and I figured out a way to do it without getting messy, mostly because a full 7 days for me to go without is not a fun thing to be around, lol. At first we didn't, but when I figured out a way boy was I happy! He actually does that more often when I am on my period then making love cause there's no way to stop that mess then...

Some of us would like you to write a "How To" article on that, okay?

 

[Dar~]

Some of us would like you to write a "How To" article on that, okay?

Can I second that?

 

[damppanties]

Can I second that?

Thirded.

 

[MrsDeathlynx]

It's actually quite easy, now that I've had a full 9 hours of sleep or so, lol. It also does help that I didn't have to wake up to an alarm, but that's besides the point, lol.

What we do, because hubby does not like the mess, can't say that I blame him either. This only works for women who use tampons, if you don't then I'm afraid this won't help you. What you do is go to the bathroom and use a washcloth or something like a baby wipe to clean yourself, then you of course remove the tampon you're using, replacing it with another one. After which point you make sure you are clean again, same manner as before. It leaves plenty of points of stimulation, sure you can't penetrate the vagina but there are other pleasure points as well. Leaves the partner free to lick or suck or just about anything he wants to do and since you have a tampon in there's no mess.