I'm glad of its under 18 rule

[M_K_Babalon]

What about exceptions for marriage? Isn't that the main reason to oppose child marriage in the current US debates, that it legalises sex with the child?

Obviously I don't believe for a moment the child would be safe from rape once married off, but a law against consummating such a marriage would be a start.

Romeo&Juliet laws determin legal age gap. Under 18 needs a parents consent for marriage, but they can't force a marriage on their kid.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Double standard in perception. Woman teacher does this with a student she should be crucified
Male teacher does it, he's a hero, and odds are the little whore was teasing him and he's innocent, as men always are.

Utter nonsense. A male teacher does this in the states and he goes to prison for a significant stretch. Then he spends the rest of his life on the sex offender registry.

A female teacher does this and the response is to call the boy "lucky" and for guys to say they wish it had happened to them.
Teacher gets a slap on the wrist and probation at worst.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

[Politics and trolling prohibited per our AH Forum Rules]

 

[Bramblethorn]

What about exceptions for marriage? Isn't that the main reason to oppose child marriage in the current US debates, that it legalises sex with the child?

Obviously I don't believe for a moment the child would be safe from rape once married off, but a law against consummating such a marriage would be a start.

As I understand it, some states make an exception to statutory-rape laws when the two people involved are married, others don't.

But as you say, it seems unlikely that a community which condoned an adult marrying a child is going to be very zealous in enforcing those laws even if they exist.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Romeo&Juliet laws determin legal age gap. Under 18 needs a parents consent for marriage, but they can't force a marriage on their kid.

If the parents are cool with an adult marrying their pre-teen kid - which, sad to say, does happen in the USA - they're probably in a position to put a lot of pressure on the kid to say yes.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

If the parents are cool with an adult marrying their pre-teen kid - which, sad to say, does happen in the USA - they're probably in a position to put a lot of pressure on the kid to say yes.

If by adult you mean 18-21, because age of consent is 16-18(no preteens) in the US, and R&J laws is usually [state depending] allowing a two to three age gap. Even if say South Dakotas aoc was 14, somebody 17 would most likely be a no-go, legally, and the youngest they as 14 could date might be 10-12.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

If the parents are cool with an adult marrying their pre-teen kid - which, sad to say, does happen in the USA - they're probably in a position to put a lot of pressure on the kid to say yes.

Only 4 states allow pre-teen, and most of those have additional protections.
In California there is no minimum age, but you also need court consent to prove there is no coercion.
Mississippi is similar, girls below 15 need parental AND judicial consent.
New Mexico and Oklahoma under 16 requires judicial consent.


Hawaii and Kansas are 15, everywhere else is at least 16.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If by adult you mean 18-21, because age of consent is 16-18(no preteens) in the US, and R&J laws is usually [state depending] allowing a two to three age gap. Even if say South Dakotas aoc was 14, somebody 17 would most likely be a no-go, legally, and the youngest they as 14 could date might be 10-12.

No, by "adult" I mean 18-74+. We were discussing marriage ages but you seem to be talking here about the general age for sexual consent, which isn't the same thing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...rides-new-jersey-chris-christie-a7830266.html

At least 207,468 minors married in the US between 2000 and 2015, according to data compiled by Unchained At Last, a group campaigning to abolish child marriage, and investigative documentary series Frontline.

The true figure is likely to be much higher because 10 states provided no or incomplete statistics.

Eight-seven per cent of the minors who married across the country between 2000 and 2015 were girls, with the majority either 16 or 17.

The youngest wedded were three 10-year-old girls in Tennessee who married men aged 24, 25 and 31 in 2001. The youngest groom was an 11-year-old who married a 27-year-old woman in the same state in 2006.

Children as young as 12 were granted marriage licences in Alaska, Louisiana and South Carolina, while 11 other states allowed 13-year-olds to wed.

More than 1,000 children aged 14 or under were granted marriage licences.

Most states set the age of sexual consent between 16 and 18 and a person can be charged with statutory rape for having sex with a minor. Yet many children were granted marriage licences, approved by judges, before they could legally consent to sex.

Only 14 per cent of the children who wedded were married to other minors. Most married a partner aged 18 to 29, with 60 per cent aged between 18 or 20.

But in rare cases children were permitted to wed someone decades older.

A 14-year-old girl married a 74-year-old man in Alabama, while a 17-year-old wed a 65-year-old groom in Idaho.

Some states have changed their laws since that article was written, but there are still four US states which set no absolute minimum to the age at which a child can be married with the consent of their parents and/or a court. (The other states each have a hard minimum of 15 or older.)

And once a child is married, in many states they're no longer protected by age-of-consent laws. For instance, the statutory rape law for Mississippi (one of the four states with no absolute minimum marriage age) only applies when the victim "is not the person's spouse": https://codes.findlaw.com/ms/title-97-crimes/ms-code-sect-97-3-65/

So if an 80-year-old can find cooperative parents and a persuadable court, he can marry a child of any age and then go to Mississippi, or any other state with a marriage exception to age of consent, and sleep with her without fear of prosecution. Fucked up but true.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

It varies wildly between states. The average is IIRC close to 16, too. The "18 in the whole US" myth comes mostly from the fact that it's 18 in California, and that's where most of the cultural exports come from.

It's 16 in most of Australia as well, and yet Australians are possibly more puritanical about the 18+ thing than even we are.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

Double standard in perception. Woman teacher does this with a student she should be crucified
Male teacher does it, he's a hero, and odds are the little whore was teasing him and he's innocent, as men always are.

That's not how this typically plays out. When an older woman teacher has an affair with an underage boy, almost universally the comments are: "where was she when I was in school?" from men.

Men doing it is creepy and gross. So there is a double standard, but it's in favor of the woman.

You have your perceptions flipped.

You're both wrong.

The real deciding factor on whether or not the teacher will be sympathized with is whether or not she or he is considered attractive. Everything else is window dressing.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

I wanted to be with more than a few of my attractive female teachers when I was 15 or 16. From that point of view, I love these stories where an older and attractive female teacher seduces or is seduced by a younger male student. I tend to read those stories when they pop up. From the point of view of an older, more responsible and mature male, however, I think: oh my God, why did you do that??? What were you thinking???

See, if I ever try to read a teacher-student story, it always seems to hit the same part of my gag reflex as stories involving incest. If other people like them then fair enough, but for me?

I always imagine them as being the fantasies of people who have never worked in education. Just as I imagine incest stories as being the fantasies of people who don't have siblings.

 

[WrongFrog]

My take on this is- Lit in general abides by the rules of the porn industry, which is 2257 compliant. That means over 18 according to legal identification purposes. I have a bunch of NA novels I would love Lit feedback on, because this site is still one of the best resources ever for getting feedback on what his and what doesn't with readers, but they'll never appear here because the FMC is under 18 (and has to be for the plot to work) when the story begins. She's over 18 by the time the trilogy ends, but that doesn't matter- Laurel and Manu make the rules, and I respect them and what they've created too much to try and defy them.

Lit is and always has been a site geared to sex and sexual satisfaction, which puts it firmly in the pornography field. The rules for that genre are clearly defined, and if they aren't to your taste, you shouldn't be here.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

See, if I ever try to read a teacher-student story, it always seems to hit the same part of my gag reflex as stories involving incest. If other people like them then fair enough, but for me?

I always imagine them as being the fantasies of people who have never worked in education. Just as I imagine incest stories as being the fantasies of people who don't have siblings.

The fantasy version is usually from the POV of the student. Because most people have been students aged 14+ and puberty hits, other pupils are weird, scary or just not interested, whereas the staff will generally include adults who have mastered personal hygiene and presentation and therefore look desirable. The inappropriateness and likely coercion involved if Miss or Sir was in fact interested in their student doesn't occur to them.

At the same time the students are fantasising over that most desirable kid in class and what they look like. The fantasy image stays while they get older. Eventually the fantasy tends to wear off as they realise it would be totally inappropriate to still have it years later, or the fantasy changes to be an adult, just in the dress of a schoolgirl.

Actually working with young people is probably the easiest way to switch such dated fantasies off!

 

[StillStunned]

Actually working with young people is probably the easiest way to switch such dated fantasies off!

For me, living in a university town, it was turning 40. I realised that ogling the girls would make me a dirty old man.

(I also realised when I was 30 that I had nothing in common with anyone more than five years younger than me.)

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

The fantasy version is usually from the POV of the student. Because most people have been students aged 14+ and puberty hits, other pupils are weird, scary or just not interested, whereas the staff will generally include adults who have mastered personal hygiene and presentation and therefore look desirable. The inappropriateness and likely coercion involved if Miss or Sir was in fact interested in their student doesn't occur to them.

At the same time the students are fantasising over that most desirable kid in class and what they look like. The fantasy image stays while they get older. Eventually the fantasy tends to wear off as they realise it would be totally inappropriate to still have it years later, or the fantasy changes to be an adult, just in the dress of a schoolgirl.

I don't even know if that was really very common, until comparatively recently. People say Van Halen created the meme, but I think it developed even more recently than that.

When I was in school, I was attracted to and tended to fantasize about other students. I hardly even considered my teachers as anything more than teachers, and I don't think that very many other students did either. Affairs between students and teachers happened back then, sure, but I don't think it had the same... what's the word, Forbidden Fruit aspect? I don't even think it would have been seen as being exceedingly "immoral," just disgusting and perhaps emotionally unhealthy.

Actually working with young people is probably the easiest way to switch such dated fantasies off!

Working with adults isn't much better. Perhaps there really is no bigger turnoff than having to grade someone else's papers.

 

[Bramblethorn]

My take on this is- Lit in general abides by the rules of the porn industry, which is 2257 compliant. That means over 18 according to legal identification purposes.

Lit is and always has been a site geared to sex and sexual satisfaction, which puts it firmly in the pornography field. The rules for that genre are clearly defined, and if they aren't to your taste, you shouldn't be here.

The rules are clearly defined for visual erotica. They are not clearly defined for text erotica. As specified here, they're aimed at "any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where— (A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; (B) such visual depiction is a digital image, computer image, or computer-generated image that is, or is indistinguishable from, that of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or (C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct."

https://www.literotica.com/resources/2257_info

Literotica is exempt from 18 U.S.C. section 2257 because the site publishes primarily text stories, not sexually explicit photographs or videos of real people. Any photographs or videos hosted on these servers are either non-sexually explicit (as defined in 18 U.S.C section 2256) or uploaded by users (see above).

There is not a sharp legal line that restricts text erotica to 18+, just the murkiness of subjectively-defined "obscenity" standards. Lit's 18+ rule is quite likely prudent for site owners who want to be sure their material isn't judged as "obscenity" but it's not something that 2257 or adjacent sections mandate.

 

[lc69hunter]

I am currently writing a story based upon a family that I know (names/etc) are changed, but a true story. Sixteen year old daughter discovers Dad is a cuckold. Questions him, but still loves him. Reality is that Mom will allow her to watch when she is eighteen. For the story to work here on Lit, I have made her eighteen when she discovers it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I don't hate the rule, but I also don't love it. It makes it hard to write a coming-of-age story.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't hate the rule, but I also don't love it. It makes it hard to write a coming-of-age story.

They have to come of age later than normal.

 

[TheLobster]

They have to come of age later than normal.

They can make up for it by coming harder.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Otherwise, they can't cum at all.

They have to come of age later than normal.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I don't even know if that was really very common, until comparatively recently. People say Van Halen created the meme, but I think it developed even more recently than that.

When I was in school, I was attracted to and tended to fantasize about other students. I hardly even considered my teachers as anything more than teachers, and I don't think that very many other students did either. Affairs between students and teachers happened back then, sure, but I don't think it had the same... what's the word, Forbidden Fruit aspect? I don't even think it would have been seen as being exceedingly "immoral," just disgusting and perhaps emotionally unhealthy.


Working with adults isn't much better. Perhaps there really is no bigger turnoff than having to grade someone else's papers.

Maybe that's because you're of the generation where your teachers looked like the stepmother from Cinderella or Professor McGonagal.

 

[AndersonsBiographer]

Maybe that's because you're of the generation where your teachers looked like the stepmother from Cinderella or Professor McGonagal.

Eh, I went to a magnet school, which does tend to lean older I suppose. But not exceedingly so.

 

[Senor_Smut]

I get why Lit has the 18+ rule, because the prudes in this country are not only awful, they're stridently awful so characters under that age engaging in sex would ignite a firestorm. I do wish that there was a soft outer edge to the rule regarding knowledge and feelings rather than deeds, because having characters who aren't even aware of the concept of sex when they're 17 years and 364 days old but who magically become experts in all forms of sexuality at the stroke of midnight hurts my brain, but I understand why there's not. The line has to be drawn somewhere and that's where they've chosen to draw it, so if I want to play here I have to play by their rules. I'm not salty about it.

It still hurts my brain though. LOL

 

[KeithD]

Maybe that's because you're of the generation where your teachers looked like the stepmother from Cinderella or Professor McGonagal.

The new English teacher, Miss McCreadie, was in her first year of teaching and her first year out of college. She had the longest, most shapely legs we'd ever seen. She drove an MG roadster, and when she arrived in the morning, we all gathered around the windows to watch her unfold from her car.