Implied underage sex in stories?

[Pure]

Colleen said,

//Idealist I am, but if you think about it for a few moments, it seems to me thats the way we should be and that 90% of the worlds problmes come from one person sticking their nose into someone elses bussiness.//

Hey, I'm all for 'live and let live'; leave the neighbor alone in her (staged) gang bang.

But we know that *some are *not practicing this: those who gang bang her against her will; a country invades another; there is a civil war as in Ruanda with millions killed.

So the tricky question is how tolerant and non violent we can and should be with some of the 'difficult' characters, not with the other peaceloving, mindyourownbusiness types.

Now, as soon as you agree you're not going to 'stand by' and do nothing, you will be sticking your nose in someone's business**--as for example, a neighbor/wife who's getting beaten by hubby.

J.

** or having someone do it on your behalf.

 

[destinie21]

I say shoot them now, get it over with. first the feminists, then the communists, then the fascists, then religious fundamentalists, then people who sit on the fence and can't make up their mind who to support.

What about the misogynists? or should I call the mysoginazis?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The militant feminazis are interesting point. Often gay they promote oral sex between females but frown on male oral sex with females bashing males. Everyone has an agenda.


That's the stupidest thing I've heard since the gay agenda.

I've read that most of the pics in newspapers of bra-burning women were staged by the newspaper to increase the sales.

 

[HawaiiBill]

Can we get back to the subject?

The turn this thread has taken is unfortunate. Calling names -- including those groups who some perceive as being enemies of erotica -- is counter-productive, as in "people who live in glass houses should throw no stones." Disagreeing with use of minors as sexual participants doesn't make a person a "Nazi" of any variant.

We started with a discussion on use of minors in stories here and elsewhere. That's useful but maybe enough was said and the discussion is finished.

Those who want to toss rocks at their personal unpopular political ghosts should do it in another forum and, perhaps, on a different web site.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

HawaiiBill, we usually hi-jack a thread when we feel that the original topic has been discussed enough.

It usually takes 3-4 posts, but after that - it's free game.

 

[Pookie]

Have the server be hostedd in Canada. We have laws that protect only written stories that deals with underage sex as only stories are the only form of paedophilia where it may be expressed. All other forms (pictures, drawings, movies, audio tapes... etc.) are illegal.

Here's something I posted in the the Story Feedback forum some time ago. I hope this helps. It's still accurate ...

From this thread: https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=4782217&#post4782217


Just to clear up something, fictional stories about people under 18 years of age having sex are not illegal in the USA. However, child pornography is illegal. But "stories" are not child pornography in the eyes of the Courts.

Child Pornography: material that visually depicts children (real children as well as computer-generated depictions of children) under the age of eighteen engaged in actual or simulated sexual activity, including lewd exhibition of the genitals. Child pornography laws were recently amended to include computerized images or altered (morphed) pictures of children, and counterfeit or synthetic images generated by computer that appear to be of real minors or that were marketed or represented to be real child pornography
Source: http://www.protectkids.com/dangers/porndefinitions.htm

Legal Definition of Child Pornography: An unprotected visual depiction of a minor child (federal age is under eighteen) engaged in actual or simulated sexual conduct, including a lewd or lascivious exhibition of the genitals. See New York v Ferber, 458 U.S. 747 (1982), Osborne v Ohio, 495 U.S. 103 (1990), U.S. v X-Citement Video, Inc., 115 S. Ct. 464 (1994). See also U.S. v Wiegand, 812 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1987), cert. denied, 484 U.S. 856 (1987), U.S. v Knox, 32 F.3d 733 (3rd Cir. 1994), cert. denied, 115 S. Ct. 897 (1995). Note: In 1996, 18 U.S.C. § 2252A was enacted and § 2256 was amended to include "child pornography" that consists of a visual depiction that "is or appears to be" of an actual minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct. See Free Speech Coalition v Reno, No. C-97-0281 SC, judgment for defendants, Aug. 12, 1997, unpublished, 1997 WL 487758 (N.D.Cal 1997).
Source: http://www.protectkids.com/dangers/pornlegaldefinitions.htm#childporn

Clearly, fictional stories are not visual depictions. Laurel has chosen to not post stories involving characters under eighteen for personal reasons, not legal. It's her website and she can do as she pleases. If someone doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere to post their stories.


Laurel has stated her opinion on this issue at least once:
Source: https://forum.literotica.com/showth...&perpage=25&highlight=child porn&pagenumber=3

Laurel,

Then the obvious question must be asked, why not? Is it for fear of incitement to action (my original point)? How is that vastly different than "Lot Lizard?"

I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm on neither side of the argument as it pertains to Lit. I have written scenes that involved an element of non-consent myself. Governmental censorship regarding speech is patently wrong and everyone here probably agrees on that point.

But regarding murder fiction, you must answer your own question, why is fictionalized murder fiction and fictionalized adult felony rape OK but not fictionalized child felony sodomy?

It's all fantasy, or is it?

Why draw the line unless there is a thought, no matter how obscure, that it will be a cause to a specific action?

Not so fast, buster. I asked YOU first.

It has nothing to do with incitement to action. It has to do with personal tastes. I don't want to read stories involving young children. They offend me - not because I think they're harmful, but because I think they're distasteful. It being a privately run site, we can make up whatever rules we deem fit. We also don't allow stories under 750 words. (Not for the same reasons, of course. )

 

[Em Keli 2003]

HAWAII BILL:

Your point is taken and I apologize to host or others for any digression on my part. I think the subject matter is important as I said previously and I am interested in the view points expressed on the matter.


SVENSFLICKA:

LOL IT is true from what I have seen on the boards that things tend to stray after a bit. But some of the discussions would be valid on their own board rather than here. Your contributions have been valuable perspective for me and I suspect for others as well. On the subject as well as on the side.


POOKIE:

Thanks for your addition to the thread. The legal definition of Child Pornography may apply specifically to visual imagery. But I also understand Literotica owners for choosing which battles they want to tango with and don't fault them for that in the least. Also, some writers can manage some very "visual " imagery and that could push buttons on some of the holier than thou crowd.

 

[Pookie]

POOKIE:

Thanks for your addition to the thread. The legal definition of Child Pornography may apply specifically to visual imagery. But I also understand Literotica owners for choosing which battles they want to tango with and don't fault them for that in the least. Also, some writers can manage some very "visual " imagery and that could push buttons on some of the holier than thou crowd.

Thankfully, we have US Supreme Court rulings to protect writers for now. I totally respect Laurel's decision not to post "underage" stories. She has every right to set the rules according to her tastes. I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware that they are still "legal" stories, based on US Supreme Court rulings. There are a number of erotic story sites that are based in the USA that do post underage stories with no problems. There will always be those that oppose them though, just as they do all pornography.

 

[MathGirl]

HawaiiBill, we usually hi-jack a thread when we feel that the original topic has been discussed enough.It usually takes 3-4 posts, but after that - it's free game.

Dear Svenska,
Yes. If HB thinks this thread has taken a wrong turn, he's in for a shock when we start discussing sheep and garderobes.
MG

 

[oggbashan]

Dear Svenska,
Yes. If HB thinks this thread has taken a wrong turn, he's in for a shock when we start discussing sheep and garderobes.
MG

We haven't had a garderobe recently. They used to store their winter coats in the garderobes. Perhaps the smell kept the moths away?

Og

 

[MathGirl]

We haven't had a garderobe recently. They used to store their winter coats in the garderobes. Perhaps the smell kept the moths away?

Dear Og,
I found a picture yesterday from my trip to Ireland. It was an ancient castle called the Rock of ...... (Caushal?). Anyway, there's a window up near the top with a brownish stain that runs all the way down to the ground. I didn't know about garderobes when I was there, and I supposed it was where they pitched out the dishwater. Silly me.
MG
Ps. I still have the garderobe anthem you wrote for the DG Group. Should she submit it? If so, how long would it take until it was posted?

 

[RawHumor]

Gee, ask an innocent, perverted, slightly obscure question and suddenly you get a 5-page thread.

Thanks everyone for your replies and comments.

What's a garderobe?

 

[Pookie]

What's a garderobe?

You're being adventurous today.

 

[RawHumor]

You're being adventurous today.

One entry found for garderobe.


Main Entry: garde·robe
Pronunciation: 'gär-"drOb
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French; akin to Old North French warderobe wardrobe
Date: 15th century
1 : a wardrobe or its contents
2 : a private room : BEDROOM
3 : PRIVY 1

 

[oggbashan]

Dear Og,
I didn't know about garderobes when I was there, and I supposed it was where they pitched out the dishwater. Silly me.
MG
Ps. I still have the garderobe anthem you wrote for the DG Group. Should she submit it? If so, how long would it take until it was posted?

Cut and paste it to this thread. It deserves it.

Og

 

[oggbashan]

Main Entry: garde·robe
Pronunciation: 'gär-"drOb
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French; akin to Old North French warderobe wardrobe
Date: 15th century
1 : a wardrobe or its contents
2 : a private room : BEDROOM
3 : PRIVY 1

In Norman castles, definition 3 came first. Because a garderobe as a privy was reserved for the higher classes in the castle hierarchy the passage leading to it became the place to leave personal possessions such as clothes.

Most castle dwellers lived communally and had no privacy for anything. A garderobe was private. The room from which it was accessed was also private. There were usually one or two turns in the passage between the private room and the garderobe. That kept smells away - sometimes.

The garderobe as toilet discharged through chutes leading outside the wall of the keep and built up a steaming pile.

A garderobe cleaner was one of the highest paid servants but life-expectancy before disinfectants wasn't good.

Og

 

[R. Richard]

I am rather late to the thread, but I had one of my stories (Changeling) rejected because a non-human character (a dryad or woods nymph) MIGHT have been underage. I had to go back and state that the dryad had been enchanted for centuries.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Bravo on both points.


I'd like to add that in Colly's case, she's speaking about a specific incident (which I think would be just as powerful without a specific age) that took place when the character was legally a 'child.' Now, everybody thinks that this is not allowed, but they are quite wrong.

Mentioning underaged sex is not disaloud, describing it is. I read a story here once that I thought really pushed the line between telling and describing. Maybe it slipped through the cracks, you think? Wrong- it was an editor's choice. So yes folks, the story and the way you treat the incident does count. Its not law (Yet) it's Laural's descretion.

Although, if some busy-body starts a big snit about a certain story, Laurel may rethink it and pull the material. It happened once when some young celebraties where 'aged' and someone still felt offended. It was a top rated story, but it was removed (the author concented to the removal to avoid contraversy in this case) and it's happened other times as well.

I think the same goes for non-concent, although certain platitudes fly around such as that it always has to be the woman's fantasy, and that if she comes it will be accepted, this is not always the case. It is all up to Laurel's discretion, which I think is fine. Things are forever being posted that somebody is furiously PMing Laurel to complain about. I think if she thinks that it's going to cause a problem, she simply removes it- unless it's so outstanding that she wants to put her butt on the line to defend it, which I suspect is rarely. Personally I wish everybody would just read the stuff they like, and stop complaining to Laurel about every little 'fudge' of the rules. It's just a story, so lighten up.

And as to radicals (extremists)-- there's nothing wrong with being radical. Go radicals! There will always be extremists, because they are the farthest on down the line. Remove the 'extremests' from the ends, and whoever's slightly less extreme than them is not 'extreme' Evil is killing, selfishness, and trying to control what is beyond your control or right to control, not extremism. That's just a word people use to shut others up. (Don't give in to the prapaganda)

Ahh,! Do I detect a crying need for a Devil's Advocate?Or are we just playing Ridiculously Naive just for the fun of it?

Those terrible extremists you were talking about? Weren't they also responsible for women getting the vote and for ending racial segregation? Things like that?

Personally, I think the underage sex thing is a writing problem. Spelling out a character's age in birthdays is on a par with describing a woman's breasts by giving cup size. If you're a decent writer you should be able to convey age without resorting to numbers. After all, what's exciting? The fact that the character's only had 16 birthday parties? Or the fact that they act and think and look a certain way that we associate with that age? Is there really such a number fetish out there that we just have to put in that figure to give the story some spark?

---dr.M.

 

[MathGirl]

By popular demand

Cut and paste it to this thread. It deserves it.

Invocation

Apollo strum your heavenly lyre
Send me some inspiring fire
Or better still the Muses nine
So that my poetry will rhyme.

But if you cannot spare the lot
I’ll make do with what you’ve got.
I rather not have Terpsichore
She needs a clear dance floor.

Erato would be really handy,
Her I’d buy a box of candy.
You can keep the other eight
Because my readers won’t wait.

If you won’t send the nine,
I’ll just lie and cry and whine.
…
…

You’ll grant my plea?
O praises be, now we’ll see
To what depths I can sink
In this chronicle of stink.

The Noble Garderobe

Garderobe of thee I sing;
Muses help my song to wing,
Flying from this wooden seat
Readers’ ears t’assoil or treat.

This garderobe displayed to view
Was built for the privileged few;
Not for folk like you and me,
Nor the jealous bourgeoisie.

To build one it is vital
To own both lands and title.
If you are a common chap
Use somewhere else to crap.

Retainers, both the short and tall
Do it in the corners of the hall.
To outside staff the hall is barred
They have to do it in the yard.

This song is all about the turd
You might think it quite absurd
But poets have to do their thing
And mine is crap. That I sing.

Watch it slither and slide
That helter-skelter ride
To land with a plop
At the end of the drop.

It adds to the heap
That never doth sleep
Watch it turn into ooze
The smell you can’t lose.

The flies and the stench
Help repel the French
Who’ll cross the Channel
To try their old flannel

On any girl who’d
Enjoy their ways rude.
She’ll say “Oui, maybe”
Then drench them with pee.

The smell we’ve endured
The French it deterred
We know that it works
No Frenchie here lurks.

The pile is immense
Last line of defence:
The French were last here?
T’was six hundred year.

But never mind, old chap,
I’ll just have a crap.
It kept off the Kaiser
He’s sadder and wiser.

As for that Hitler
Scared off by our shitter.
Now there’s the Euro –
Shit’ll keep our pound pure, O.

Crap and tell the story
Of England’s last glory.
We’ll keep our land virgin
By garderobes with turds in.

Now heaven forfend
Seems I’ve got to the end
To Apollo the paean:
Thanks, Muses, for peeing.

Og

Ps. Well done, Og. I must admit I shed una furtiva lagrima.

 

[oggbashan]

Thanks

Thank you, MG, for excavating that pile of s**t.

Perhaps it gives AH members an idea of what crap I can write when inspired.

Back to NaNoWriMo - only 31,300 words to go.

Og

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Out int he countryside, in my country, in the old days, every farm had a special shithouse, either standing on its own, or built into the barn. There were usually 2-3 holes there, so there wouldn't be a long line forming when the family and its servants all needed to go.

The farmer and his wife would go there together, to be alone and sit and discuss the caretaking of the farm, in privacy.

Ofciurse, toilet paper didn't exist back then, so instead people spent their free time cutting sticks in the shape of a hooking needle, to have a supply ready when they needed them...

I suppose oral sex wasn't very common back then.

 

[MathGirl]

Re: Thanks

Originally posted by oggbashan Thank you, MG, for excavating that pile of s**t. Perhaps it gives AH members an idea of what crap I can write when inspired.

Dear Og,
You are much too modest.
MG

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Ofciurse, toilet paper didn't exist back then, so instead people spent their free time cutting sticks in the shape of a hooking needle, to have a supply ready when they needed them.

It's a shame those folks didn't have access to corn cobs, or in more modern times, Sears & Roebuck catalogues.

Rustic Rumple

ps "I suppose oral sex wasn't very common back then." It does seem like it would have required a rather large amount of dedication. RF

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Or that... what they call it? Sacrofagia?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Cuprofagia! That's it.