Interdisciplinary Collaboration

[LadyKaren50]

Questioning the proposal

Abi was surprised by the offer. "Dr. Platt, I doubt I would be able to make enough contribution to this project to warrant a co-authorship!" Abi went silent for a bit. The subject matter was rather curious, especially considering her recent experience. Following the nasty break-up with her husband she immediately and surprisingly had fallen into a rather intense sexual relationship with Emily Petersen at her old school. Dr. Petersen was a post-doctoral fellow in psychology, but Abigail came to think of her as a soul-mate, well, except for her young age and the fact, of course, that Emily was not interested in a an-going relationship and so it all ended when Abi moved to Madison. She looked wistfully past her guest as a momentary recollection came over her.

Shaking her head she turned her attention back to Josephine. "You know my PhD is in musicology. My dissertation was in music in the early Middle Ages, which has led me to continue to go back in time to the point where I ended up doing post-doctoral research in Ancient history - Greeks and Romans and that kind of stuff. This led me to some experience and expertise with ancient iconography. The focus was on looking for musical instruments, which often are found in drawings and paintings that depict feasts. This includes the depiction of some sexual activity, but not exclusively. Besides, you know that at least in talking about the ancient world there was no such thing as "lesbianism" or any of the terms we use to describe orientation since there was no concept of sexual orientation. Certainly there was plenty of activity, mostly, sadly utilizing the large slave populations, but this did not replace heterosexual marriage, since that was all about having children and heirs." Abi stopped herself, she had switched into her lecturer mode. "Sorry, I didn't mean to lecture you. I am sure you know all of this and you did say the last couple centuries, which I know almost nothing about I'm afraid. It sounds like a curious project but I don't know that I have anything to contribute except perhaps my support." Abi smiled. She was anxious to make friends and get involved, but she wondered whether it made sense to commit to a project she might not have anything constructive to contribute.

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Tenacity



“Truth be told,” Josephine admitted. “I know little about sexuality and attitudes toward it before modern times. That’s why I need a collaborator for establishing the historical context. It sounds like you know enough to help me start an analytical framework, even if we have to bring in an expert on artistic symbology afterward.”

Josephine realized she could probably find a scholar more qualified to do this, but she had already discovered she appreciated Dr. Saunders’ professionalism, candor, and academic attitude. She thought they would work well together. She glanced at her watch. “It’s almost four o’clock, and it looks like you’ve already put in a hard day. How about if we go grab dinner somewhere and discuss it further?”

 

[LadyKaren50]

An Late Afternoon Supper

"...It sounds like you know enough to help me start an analytical framework, even if we have to bring in an expert on artistic symbology afterward.”

Abigail was momentarily surprised at this comment. "Maybe I know more than I think about all of this." She thought. She looked into Dr. Platt... Josephine's smiling eyes and saw warmth there. Her clothing choices were a little severe, but not too terribly different than Abigail's own when she was working, though the contrast today was stark. It was obvious to her that Josephine was someone who she could work with and maybe even be friends with... maybe good friends. "Well, I don't want to be in over my head, why don't we say I will sign on as your historical consultant. Well, at least until you discover that I don't really have anything to contribute." She smiled, she was joking... sort of... but not really. Abigail had suffered a blow to her confidence and self-esteem as a result of all of her personal drama, which ultimately resulted in her relocating and taking this new job. The truth was she wasn't sure this new job itself was a good fit. Her interview discussion included talk of teaching and research in her particular areas of expertise, but her assignments for her first semester - 2nd semester - were all standard classes, including a large lecture hall class, which Abi hated, and no work with grad students. She kept telling herself that this was normal in a new position, but she was disappointed and uneasy and lonely.

"She glanced at her watch. “It’s almost four o’clock, and it looks like you’ve already put in a hard day. How about if we go grab dinner somewhere and discuss it further?”

Abi looked at the clock she had placed on her desk and saw that it was in fact 3:57 PM. Her reaction was to say "no" and beg off. In the past she had always lots to do, and various commitments here and there. But she had none of these here. She had left all of that along with her grown children back East. What would she do otherwise? Work until 6 or 7 and then do Chinese take-out, eat at home alone and then go online for a couple hours. "That is a wonderful idea," she said suddenly, "I would love to get out of this stuffy office. And please call me Abi." Abi picked up her jacket which was hanging on the door of a small cabinet. "I need to get a coat rack I think."

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Historical Evidence



Going out on a Friday evening with an attractive woman, it almost felt like a date. Josephine knew she had to suppress that feeling. The photographs on Dr. Saunders’ desk bode against any such probability.

“Alright, Abi, and please call me ‘Jo,’” she smiled. “Is pub fare okay? I can show you a bit of Madison’s history.”

 

[LadyKaren50]

“Alright, Abi, and please call me ‘Jo,’” she smiled. “Is pub fare okay? I can show you a bit of Madison’s history.”

Abi turned out the light and locked her door as she and Jo left the office. "Sure, that is fine. I don't know much about Madison yet and I am interested in trying something new." Abi was pleased to be going somewhere with someone else for a change. "Thanks for the suggestion, I haven't really met anyone else here yet. By the way can we walk or do we need to drive?"

 

[LadyKaren50]

To Dinner with a new friend

As they walked together, Abi asked Jo, "So, how long have you taught here at UW-M? And what exactly do you teach?"

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Down to the Nitty Gritty



“I’ve taught here since 1989... always in the Marketing Department at the Business School,” Josephine replied to Abi as they walked. By the time she finished describing her various courses, from big introductory undergraduate lectures to small seminars and other work with graduate students, they had walked two blocks east on University Avenue and a block south on Frances Street and stood catacorner to a tavern. Its awnings identified it as The Nitty Gritty.

“This place is something of a shrine to retired and wannabe hippies,” Josephine explained to Abi. “Of course, its counter-culture glory days are decades in the past — almost half of a century, really — but it’s still considered an important part of Madison’s history. Most importantly for our purposes, it serves a great burger. Does it look alright to you?”

 

[LadyKaren50]

“This place is something of a shrine to retired and wannabe hippies,” Josephine explained to Abi. “Of course, its counter-culture glory days are decades in the past — almost half of a century, really — but it’s still considered an important part of Madison’s history. Most importantly for our purposes, it serves a great burger. Does it look alright to you?”

"Oh sure, it looks terrific!" Abi said, "It looks like my kind of place since I am kind of a retired hippie!" She laughed. "Actually my parents were real hippies. Used to take me on the road following the Grateful Dead, living in a commune for a while and all of that!" They went into the restaurant. Abi looked around, enjoying the decor.

Abi hung her jacket up and offered to take Jo's and hang it as well. They are seated after a short wait. Abi picked up the conversation from earlier. "It is curious to me that as someone who has taught Marketing here for so long that you are involved in this rather academic, art-history project. I can't really make the connection between you and this project. Why this project? And why now?"

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Bad Attitudes



“If you think about it,” Josephine began. “Almost all marketing is applied art. And please don’t make the common assumption that Business, as studied at the university level, is still somehow less ‘academic’ than the Humanities or Sciences.”

She realized a bitter defensiveness had crept into her voice. The way much of academia looked down unjustifiably on Business professors frustrated her. She should not vent that emotion on Abi. Nothing in her question had actually implied such condescension.

Josephine wondered how much more to tell her of her motivations for this study. She doubted the Musicologist had any bigotry on the subject, but did not want to scare her off by making the study seem too personal, or even intimate. She did not want to come across like all those Gender Studies professors who wore their cause next to their hearts on their sleeves. Josephine would prefer Abi learned the source her most basic intellectual drives in the natural course of things. Fortunately, the arrival of their waitress, a perky little blonde, delayed any need to continue.

“Good afternoon, Ladies,” she smiled cutely. “My names Shelly and I’ll be taking care of you. Can I start you off with something to drink?”

Josephine had planned to just have a glass or two of Lite, but her just completed thoughts about people’s attitudes toward everything from Marketing professors to homosexuality had made her a bit surly. She smiled hungrily at the fetching waitress.

“I’ll have a Lemon Drop Martini, please.”

 

[LadyKaren50]

questions

Abi was a little surprised to detect a harsh edge to Jo’s comments and she raised her eyebrows a bit at that. The interruption of the waitress distracted them both for the moment.

“I’ll have a Lemon Drop Martini, please.”

“Shelly just bring me a glass of Perrier please with a slice of lemon.” Abi said sweetly as she smiled. As the girl walked away from their table Abi turned back to Jo. “I’m sorry, I did not mean to imply any kind of lack of academic validity. I am only trying to understand what is driving this project. What is its thesis? Frankly, the project as you have stated it seems a bit far removed from both of our main areas of expertise, that is all I meant to ask.” Abi said this calmly and gently, without defensiveness or any rancor. She could tell that Jo was pretty passionate and this attracted Abi, but she could also tell there was something else going behind it all.

Just then Shelly came back with their drinks. Abi smiled at the girl and thanked her, then ordered a cheeseburger platter for supper. And then turned back to Jo and smiled. “Besides all of that, you don’t really know me do you? How much did the Dean tell you and why would you think I might have anything to contribute or even have an interest in this project? I am not saying I don’t now, I just think we need to put our cards on the table so we go into this with our eyes open understanding exactly what we are trying to accomplish and what the expectations are.” She looked over at Jo and looked into her eyes.

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Qualifications



“To be honest Abi, I really know nothing about you,” Josephine admitted as she took a sip of her Lemon Drop Martini. She’d had better, but this one would certainly do. It had the significant potency typical of cocktails at The Nitty Gritty. She noted the woman’s direct gaze and liked it. As much as she wanted to read more into it, however, she assumed it represented only academic interest. College professors, especially the best ones, tended toward an intellectual intensity most people did not understand. “I have no doubt you’re highly regarded in your field of study. You wouldn’t have a position at this university otherwise. I’m just not familiar with Musicology, or even that much with Art History. I think Dr. Nadler gave me your name because you’re new and he figured you had more time than anyone else in his department... or maybe he just didn’t want to bother anyone else with the work of a mere Business School professor.”

Josephine snorted and took another sip before continuing. “Anyway... my hypothesis is that homoerotic imagery, especially lesbianism, did not appear in advertising until after the rise of modern feminism in the 1960s. For now, I plan a simply quantitative analysis. That should be good for a paper. From there, we’ll need to determine if a qualitative study, or even considerations of causation, are appropriate and possible. If so, that could lead to more papers, or even a book.”

Josephine had yet to publish a book, and the prospect excited her, leading to another sip of her drink. She tilted the now half-empty glass at Abi’s sparkling water and chuckled. “Are you a teetotaler? If so, you picked the wrong city to teach in!”

 

[LadyKaren50]

Dinner is served

“I wouldn’t say I was a teetotaler, but I don’t really drink mostly because I just don’t like alcohol, though I will have a little wine at night. But I do like Mead which I save for late at night when I am alone.” She smiled a wicked smile and her eyes twinkled. “As for your thesis, I think it is correct. Male homosexuality has always been put into a different category historically than female. I think that the reason for this is that the patriarchy has always been threatened by male homosexuality and was not threatened in the same way about female, until the rise of the feminist movement. And since early feminism was seen initially in the popular culture as a “lesbian” movement then I think it began to be threatening to the status quo.” Abi took a sip of her Perrier, “I hadn’t ever thought much about advertising within the context of cultural studies. That is an interesting idea.” She paused, “When I think about advertising in the 60’s though mostly what comes to my mind is very tradition female stereotypes of the dutiful wife and homemaker who has an estrogen meltdown because she has got “ring around the collar.”

Just then Shelly brought their food to the table. “Thank you,” she said sweetly. “This looks good, though I think it is too much food for me!”

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Guilty Pleasure



Josephine continued chuckling over Abi’s “ring around the collar” comment when Shelly set her plate in front of her — the famous Gritty Burger and pub chips. She knew she should have made a healthier choice, but she had all weekend to work off the calories. Before the waitress left, Josephine ordered a second Lemon Drop Martini. She could tell her proposal had finally piqued Abi’s academic interest. She could almost see the wheels turning in the depths of the musicologist’s pretty eyes. Josephine understood marketing. Once you have the prospect thinking about the product herself, you tone down the hard sell for a while. Josephine took a bite of her pickle spear.

“So mead is your guilty pleasure?” she asked. “My ex-husband was Norwegian by heritage, and fascinated by all things Viking. He introduced me to mead. I still prefer a dry red, but do enjoy a good authentic mead now and then.”

She lifted the huge burger to her mouth and — wanting to make the evening fun and build a friendship — just before taking a hearty bite, inquired further. “So, Abi, do you have any other guilty pleasures?”

 

[LadyKaren50]

“So mead is your guilty pleasure?” she asked. “My ex-husband was Norwegian by heritage, and fascinated by all things Viking. He introduced me to mead. I still prefer a dry red, but do enjoy a good authentic mead now and then.”

“Well, actually my interest in Mead comes from my work in Greece and Crete, especially the Minoans in Crete where Mead was a staple and the bees, known as the Mellisae, were worshiped as lesser goddesses. I do like the taste and variety of Mead.” She takes a bite of her hamburger, “It also prompts me to fantasize that I am hanging out at the Boar’s Head tavern with Sir John Falstaff and his buddy Hal!” She giggles as she continues to eat.

She lifted the huge burger to her mouth and — wanting to make the evening fun and build a friendship — just before taking a hearty bite, inquired further. “So, Abi, do you have any other guilty pleasures?”

Abi looked at Jo with big eyes and blushed, “I think we all have our secrets, now don’t we!” She smiled and went back to eating. The fact was that Abi had a lot of secret guilty pleasures which began to run through her mind like a fast slide show at the moment causing Abi to blush again, which was a rather common involuntary reaction for her. “You seem to like alcohol, but that isn’t a secret I think.” Abi felt her heartbeat quicken just a little as she looked at Jo and smiled, with a twinkle in her eye.

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Secretly Surprising



Josephine noted Abi’s blush — it made her look younger, less wise, more innocent — and wondered what guilty pleasures she hesitated to confess.

“Life is too short to waste time on secrets,” Josephine suggested. “While I don’t necessarily advertise my views and vices, I don’t go out of my way to hide them, either. I keep no secrets; I just present occasional surprises.”

 

[LadyKaren50]

A preliminary confession

Abi nodded silently as she continued eating. “I agree,” she said. “Life is short, why pretend you are someone who you are not?” Abi was not sure what to make of Jo. She had presented herself as very professional and assumed that meant somewhat reserved, but now Abi wasn’t sure about the reserved part. In fact, Jo seemed to be wholly and completely without pretensions. Abi found this a bit unsettling and unusual. Most of her colleagues worked hard on their public persona. Abi was herself rather a bit of a chameleon - a decidedly different public person than who she was in private.

“It is curious” she said finally after a brief awkward silence. “I suppose I do tend to present a different personality in public. You didn’t get to meet that Abi because she hasn’t finished moving into her office. It’s not that I am ashamed of anything about myself, or trying to hide any secrets (she paused, there were secrets and she knew it), but I have always felt that I needed to be a certain kind of professional woman in public in order to be taken seriously by the men, especially by my now ex-husband and by the students, the male students in particular! Maybe that was more of an issue 20 years ago when I started. But I nurtured a reputation for being very tough and uncompromising, actually kind of a bitch in Delaware.” She took another bite, “You asked about secrets, there it is – my major secret. I am a very different person in public than I am in private. The version of Abi that is eating lunch with you is a kind of version 2.0, since you surprised me and I wasn’t expecting you. If I had been expecting you I would have dressed very differently and been much cooler and distant. You caught me by surprise.”

 

[EmpressJosephine]

To Thine Own Self



“If I had been expecting you,” Abi confessed, “I would have dressed very differently and been much cooler and distant. You caught me by surprise.”

“Then I’m glad that I did,” Josephine replied. “If we are to end up working together, then we’ve now already cut through a lot of the B.S. we would have needed to strip away before we really got rolling. I think you’ll find one of the advantages of Madison over the East Coast is that you’re much more able to be yourself here. You won’t need to maintain the façades you built out there.”

At that moment, the waitress delivered Josephine’s second martini and took away her empty glass.

“Just in time!” Josephine declared and lifted her fresh drink, holding it out and up. “Here’s to you, the real Abigail Saunders. I look forward to getting to know you even better.”

 

[LadyKaren50]

the "Real"

Abi lifted her glass of Perrier and clinked it with Jo. “Hear, hear… me too I am looking forward to getting to know you as well.” Abi smiled as she blushed again involuntarily and put her glass down. It was the word “strip” that caused the blush, but also she felt nervous at the idea that somehow her real self – “the real Abigail Saunders” as Jo put it - would be exposed and on display, not just her body. Abi wasn’t sure she even knew the “real” Abigail Saunders herself anymore. She had finished her lunch except for a few fries and now begin picking at those few fries as she brooded about this with so much running around in her mind. She looked up at Jo awkwardly and wanted to change the subject, to ask her about her family, husband, children and so forth, but the words caught and she was uncomfortably silent for a moment.

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Under the Influence



An odd, awkward silence followed her toast. Josephine dismissed it as wishful thinking, but Abi almost seemed like a shy youth — despite her age — on a first date. Josephine had not had a lover in some time. That, she assumed, together with the alcohol, had her merely seeing an illusion of what she wanted to believe. Frowning a bit, she washed down the last of her dinner with the rest of her drink.

“Speaking of alcohol...” she began, then realized she had not actually done so. “I mean... I guess I’ll be taking an Uber home tonight.”

 

[LadyKaren50]

home

Abi quickly snapped out of her reverie as she fished her credit card out of her purse. “That is not necessary, I am happy to drive you home Jo.” Abi helped Jo on with her coat and then put her own on and they headed out to the parking deck. “So, where do you live?” Abi asked as they stepped into the elevator. I found a nice small house in Waunakee on the lake.”

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Waunakee



“The only Waunakee in the world!” Josephine giggled as the elevator doors closed. “Too bad you didn’t say so earlier. I think they still have ‘The Waunakee Song’ available on some kind of juke box at The Gitty... makes a Wisconsin woman proud!”

Josephine blinked a few times. While neither staggering nor slurring, the martinis had clearly affected her demeanor, making her loquacious and playful. She continued. “Actually, Waunakee is perfect! I have a renovated farmhouse on almost forty acres abutting the Waunakee Marsh. It’s nearly a straight shot up Highway 12.”

The elevator opened and Josephine let Abi exit first. Following close behind, she hiccupped, then spoke. “Which car is yours? And please don’t say it’s a Volvo.”

 

[LadyKaren50]

Driving to Waunakee

Abi exited the elevator and waited to see if she needed to help support Jo. Abi was surprised, two drinks had really had an effect. "No, I drive a Honda Civic, it's over behind that post there." She pointed and started to move in that direction, making sure Jo was following. They got to the car and Abi unlocked the car and went around and opened the door for Jo, helped her in and then closed the door.

"My house is on 3rd Street," she said. Abi buckled the seat belts and looked to make sure Jo had done the same and they were off. "So, just give me a warning if I need to turn." She said as she drove. "I am still getting used to the roads here, so don't assume I know where I'm going!" She said with a laugh as she headed towards Highway #12. "So do you have anyone waiting for you at home? I think you mentioned in passing that you are divorced. I'm separated legally at the moment, divorce is pending. Do you have any kids?"

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Small Talk



“No, Sweetie, don’t take the Beltline,” Josephine instructed only after Abi had already turned south onto Park Street. “It’s faster just to take University Avenue out through Middleton to Twelve. Now you’ll need to take a right on Dayton, then another on Mills, to get back to University. Now, what were you saying?”

Before Abi could answer, Josephine hiccupped again. “I’m so sorry. I always forget how strong they mix their drinks at The Gitty.... Oh. Right. You’d asked about kids. I don’t have any, just dogs and cats, and I’m not one of those pathetic people who treats her pets like substitute children. How ‘bout you? Did you say? Do you have kids?”

 

[LadyKaren50]

In a Former Life

Abi dutifully adjusted her route according to Jo’s directions. “Sorry, I’m still getting used to the area.” Once she got settled into the route she answered, “Yes, 4 kids. I have two boys and 2 girls. They are all in their 20’s and pretty much on their own, though two are in grad school and the youngest girl is still an undergraduate but she will graduate this coming spring and then who knows what she will do.” She added wistfully, “I had to leave them all back east, but they are old enough to be on their own. They are all smart and resourceful so they don’t really need me like they did when they were little.” She said this in a way that made it sound like she was trying to convince herself despite struggling with some guilt. “I didn’t really have any choice, I couldn’t stay in Newark anymore. My ex was the chair of my old department and it was really awkward.” She sighed and went silent for a moment. “It’s not fair. Why did I have to leave and why does he get to stay? I taught there as long as he has and I have done more for that university than he ever has. But it was my Dean’s suggestion I leave and come here, so here I am.” There was bitterness in her voice. “I’m still kind of hurt and angry about it all. Can you tell?” She laughed.

 

[EmpressJosephine]

Prejudice



“Your dean’s ‘suggestion,’ eh?” Josephine snorted in disgust. “He couldn’t just come out and say it, could he? Then you could sue. Sexism is as rife on supposedly liberal campuses — perhaps more so — than anywhere. You have every right to be ‘hurt and angry.’”

A smile graced Josephine’s face as an idea grew in her brain. “I know a good treatment for ‘hurt and angry.’ I have a small but well-stocked wine cellar. I might even have some mead around. When we get to my place, you should come in for a nightcap.”

Josephine recognized having this manifestly family-oriented divorcée into her home would not lead where she would ultimately prefer, but it remained early and she certainly did not want to spend the rest of Friday night alone. She would like to maintain the illusion of a date just a little longer. If nothing else, it would provide a nice foundation for a fantasy when she ultimately ended up masturbating after Abi left.