Is Literotica a 'Male Centric' site?

[SimonDoom]

I'd be curious if women-in general-prefer the mother's viewpoint or the son's, or if there is a difference.

I tentatively assume that the majority of readers prefer the POV of their own gender in stories like these, but that's a very tentative assumption at best. I know for myself personally I enjoy stories from the POVs of both genders.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But like the discussion some time back about male gaze went, the site definitely leans towards the male perception of porn where women are all cum hungry porn star sluts and every guy is a super stud. I always thought the written form would appeal more to women, and I'm sure it does, but this is man town. You can certainly see that in the behavior on the various forums here just as easily.

Plot stories for the most part appeal equally across genders. Stroke stories lean heavily to men. The stroke reader is not interested in plot nor characterization. In fact for the most part plot only gets in the way of the kinky stuff. The stroke reader is only interested in having his fantasy recited back to him, and the number one element of that fantasy regardless of category or kink is, a girl who puts out reeeaaallly easily - the unicorn. There's nothing wrong with that, but it it does make things much more difficult for the plot reader to find a good story to read, and it definitely makes the majority of the lit-verse male centric. It also makes the male characters in these stories exceedingly boring and unsexy.

You say it yourself many times lc, Mom/son on the couch. He's in the rec room minding his own business playing xbox or something, out of the blue Mom comes down, mounts on and makes his forbidden fantasy come true with zero effort on his part. Plot wise, it's complete rubbish, but it makes hundreds of guys jerk off, so it's successful. Plunk this into any category that you want. Exhibition: guy on the train minding his own business, suddenly random hot girl on same train starts undressing. Cheating: husband in the backyard minding his own business when the wife on the other side of the fence that he's been ogling for the past three years one day suddenly just hops that fence and climbs him. First time: College guy sitting in the dorm minding his own business when the hot nerdy girl walks in and says "I'm a virgin and I've been saving myself for someone special like you, so lie down," and climbs on and rides him until she cums. Guy does absolutely nothing, but fuck is he ever great in bed. Pure male fantasy, nothing but an eyeroll for a woman reader. And this is how half of the stories on lit are structured. Again nothing wrong with that ...

Considering that women in general are known to be less likely to reveal their gender on the internet, this would actually suggest the split is pretty close to even.

Which is far outweighed by all the guys with their female alt accounts. I see red flags in many accounts that tell me that that 'female' isn't really a female. I won't discuss these flags because I have no problem with guys pretending to be women and I'm the last person who will out any of them and ruin their experience.

The very-short stories that are basically an author having a wank in verbal form tend to be from a male POV, which might explain the discrepancy in numbers of stories vs number of authors by/of each sex.

Very much this. Deeper stories with plot and character development told in an engaging tone/voice will attract readers equally across genders, but you 5 to 10k stroke sheet is really just a porn for guys. It's totally male centric. The most common story on lit is under 10k, has no plot and features a super eager horny unicorn girl who does everything to make sure that some gameless invisible boring unsexy guy gets into her vagina with little (and often none at all, and sometimes even with the guy protesting) effort given on the guy's part. It's total male fantasy. There is nothing wrong with that but it is boring as fuck for a girl to read.

I'll also add that a quality 20k story with plot and deep characters can takes months of sweating and fretting and editing and beta-reading to write, while an 8k stroke sheet can be rattled off in a weekend with no effort at all (most of them are obviously unedited at a quick glance of a seasoned literary eye). Even a high quality 5k vignette will take a couple of weeks minimum. Which makes the proliferation of stroke exponentially higher than that of quality nuanced writing.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I would agree. If somehow you could get absolutely accurate data about readers and authors, my guess is that you'd find that men outnumber women, but the overall numbers are so big that as you say there "is something for everyone."

The most popular author here, by far, is Silkstockingslover, a woman, and she has written hundreds of stories in different categories, some of which I would describe as catering to male fantasies and some that don't.

Another difficulty is classifying stories as "male" or "female" centric. For instance, I write many mom-son incest stories. I think of these stories as appealing more to men, but I know from comments that I've received that there are women who love them. The Oedipal fantasy goes both ways. So do E/V fantasies, dominant-submission fantasies, nonconsent fantasies, interracial fantasies, gang bang fantasies, you name it. There's a stereotype that women want stories that delve deeper into romance and internal motivation, but there's plenty of evidence of women who want stories that are just as down and dirty as what men want.

And today I learned SilkStalkingLover was female.

Totally agree about "what women want".
Ran into this article earlier today and it seemed germane.

https://www.anarchonomicon.com/p/the-banned-fantasy-novels-feminists

We seem to want to trade in stereotypes about what men or women want.

 

[StillStunned]

Plot stories for the most part appeal equally across genders. Stroke stories lean heavily to men. The stroke reader is not interested in plot nor characterization. In fact for the most part plot only gets in the way of the kinky stuff. The stroke reader is only interested in having his fantasy recited back to him, and the number one element of that fantasy regardless of category or kink is, a girl who puts out reeeaaallly easily - the unicorn. There's nothing wrong with that, but it it does make things much more difficult for the plot reader to find a good story to read, and it definitely makes the majority of the lit-verse male centric. It also makes the male characters in these stories exceedingly boring and unsexy.

[...]

Very much this. Deeper stories with plot and character development told in an engaging tone/voice will attract readers equally across genders, but you 5 to 10k stroke sheet is really just a porn for guys. It's totally male centric. The most common story on lit is under 10k, has no plot and features a super eager horny unicorn girl who does everything to make sure that some gameless invisible boring unsexy guy gets into her vagina with little (and often none at all, and sometimes even with the guy protesting) effort given on the guy's part. It's total male fantasy. There is nothing wrong with that but it is boring as fuck for a girl to read.

Do you have any data, or is this just opinion and/or conjecture?

 

[AchtungNight]

None of the stories pinksilkglove describes seem particularly appealing to me, and I’m a guy. I agree I enjoy stories about easy hook-ups, but that just seems overly simplistic and boring.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If men are getting off to my words it's better than going unnoticed, sure. I'll be looking to dabble in different genres though, and see if I can grab any attention from those who menstruate

It's not about the genre or the category. Women can be just as kinky as men, and each woman can have a wide or a narrow band of kink that turns them on. It's about having more nuance, more emotion in the story, and writing a male lead that is at least equally sexy as the female lead. Try a man with confidence, a man with skills, a man with brains, a man with bravery, a man with style, a man who doesn't sit there waiting for the girl to mount him, a guy who shows his interest in wanting the woman rather than silently dreaming about here and never making a move.

When I was young all the boys wanted to be Han Solo or James Bond. Solo and Bond are sexy guys. The next generation doesn't have those aspirations or imagination. They don't need it. They have stroke porn with slutty girls who do everything for them with zero context.

If you want to turn women on, bring the imagination.

 

[SimonDoom]

And today I learned SilkStalkingLover was female.

I can see how if you thought of her as "Silkstalkinglover" as opposed to "Silkstockingslover" you'd think she might be male!

 

[SandyBeechum]

When it comes to actually purchasing books on Amazon and Kindle, the romance section is a huge seller to women. About 10 years ago or so I did a write up that had stats on women and romance novels. Women were really the only customers in that genre. If you go one step deeper into Erotica, those numbers could change, but I am assuming that females are still looking for a good romantic read with hot sex scenes.

 

[lovecraft68]

And today I learned SilkStalkingLover was female.

If she's stalking them while they're being worn, that would be an interesting fetish story.

Was it some of their titles that had you thinking they were male? She has some of the most absurdly porno titles on the site, but no one can question how popular she is.

 

[Infernalcock]

Try a man with confidence, a man with skills, a man with brains, a man with bravery, a man with style, a man who doesn't sit there waiting for the girl to mount him, a guy who shows his interest in wanting the woman rather than silently dreaming about here and never making a move.

Noted, and very relevant with regards to my writing. My male characters are effectively stooges to enable the women, which is good enough from my own perspective as there's no interest there for me.

I'll confess I'm not sure I have it in me to delve into a male character to the extent that would be required to pique the interest of the female mind, but I may set myself the challenge to do just that, at some point

 

[pink_silk_glove]

When it comes to actually purchasing books on Amazon and Kindle, the romance section is a huge seller to women. About 10 years ago or so I did a write up that had stats on women and romance novels. Women were really the only customers in that genre. If you go one step deeper into Erotica, those numbers could change, but I am assuming that females are still looking for a good romantic read with hot sex scenes.

Absolutely, but there is a huge difference between romance (which I often find vomit inducing myself) and male fantasy stroke porn. Stroke porn is pretty much always under 10k. Romance is almost exclusively novels. Stroke porn has cardboard unicorn sluts seducing hapless men. Romance has cardboard princes (doctors or respected professionals) bedding deserving princesses. Stroke porn tends to get the characters together with significant doses of randomness or luck. Romance (paperback at least) always gets the characters together through destiny.

Just as cheap romance novels are for women, stroke sheet porn is for men.

 

[samhasstories]

Absolutely, but there is a huge difference between romance (which I often find vomit inducing myself) and male fantasy stroke porn. Stroke porn is pretty much always under 10k. Romance is almost exclusively novels. Stroke porn has cardboard unicorn sluts seducing hapless men. Romance has cardboard princes (doctors or respected professionals) bedding deserving princesses. Stroke porn tends to get the characters together with significant doses of randomness or luck. Romance (paperback at least) always gets the characters together through destiny.

Just as cheap romance novels are for women, stroke sheet porn is for men.

I think what you're illustrating is a version of Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. I don't disagree with that.

Where I think you err is in the gross generalizations. Stroke stories aren't by definition crap, nor are those where the women drive the action. It all adheres to the overall trend. 10% of them are great. 5-10K words is plenty of room for a skilled writer to develop characters and a compelling story.

So too with novel/novella length passion projects that are worked on for years, beta-read, etc., where the goal is depth of character, stunning prose. That's a good approach for a fine work of art. It also often falls flat. About 90% of the time, to stick with Sturgeon.

I'm a man, I like a good stroke story. I write stroke stories. I'm not recommending them to you, but I flatter myself that they're not the overly simplistic tripe you describe.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Where I think you err is in the gross generalizations. Stroke stories aren't by definition crap, nor are those where the women drive the action. It all adheres to the overall trend. 10% of them are great. 5-10K words is plenty of room for a skilled writer to develop characters and a compelling story.

It is certainly entirely possible to write a good quick stroke story. I've never said otherwise. If you've mastered that, I'll take you at your word. But go read 100 random stroke stories here on lit and 90 to 95 of them will be poorly written male centric stories with unsexy men getting seduced by unicorns with little to no context at all. Why? because it's the exact same percentage of porn videos that have little to no context at all, you know the ones that show the woman completely and blur he mans face? And the five or 10 that are well written, all but one or two will still have the woman doing the seducing. So even though I can enjoy the prose, the average woman will still be disappointed with yet another unassertive 'subby' man. And once again, there's nothing wrong with that, but it won't do a thing to get the vast majority of female readers excited.

 

[SandyBeechum]

As a relative newbie, I agree that there is a lot of stroke writing here and some in depth writings. I have been trying to put together stories that have characters people might find enjoyable to get to know and be involved with on entertainment level. Perhaps I am trying to blend some romance, plot, and sex. So far I have not encountered criticism, and the ratings are good. My hope is to find an audience that likes the style I write. I enjoy entertaining others in this way.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I can see how if you thought of her as "Silkstalkinglover" as opposed to "Silkstockingslover" you'd think she might be male!

Freudian slip I suppose...

 

[Kelliezgirl]

If she's stalking them while they're being worn, that would be an interesting fetish story.

Was it some of their titles that had you thinking they were male? She has some of the most absurdly porno titles on the site, but no one can question how popular she is.

It just never occurred to me to think about it one way or another. I've never had that much interest in knowing about the author.
If they use a gender neutral or not gender obvious name (Pat or Jordan etc.) I don't care enough to try and find out.

 

[AchtungNight]

Are you that sure you speak for the vast majority of people? Never mind, of course you are. And I have better things to do than argue with you. Never mind, keep riding this horse till it bucks you off.

 

[lovecraft68]

Are you that sure you speak for the vast majority of people? Never mind, of course you are. And I have better things to do than argue with you. Never mind, keep riding this horse till it bucks you off.

Who are you addressing? I hate when someone makes a post calling someone out but doesn't quote that person.

 

[AchtungNight]

Who are you addressing? I hate when someone makes a post calling someone out but doesn't quote that person.

Pinksilkglove, my bad.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Stroke porn has cardboard unicorn sluts seducing hapless men. Romance has cardboard princes (doctors or respected professionals) bedding deserving princesses. Stroke porn tends to get the characters together with significant doses of randomness or luck. Romance (paperback at least) always gets the characters together through destiny.

Where romance is concerned, I'd agree with the Sturgeon's Law comment here. (Disclaimer: my romance reading to date has been 100% e-books, so I'm not sure what counts as "paperback". And I can't claim to be an extensive romance reader, but I've read a few.)

I'm not sure whether you mean "get together" in the sense of "first meeting" or "getting into bed"/"forming a relationship" here. If the former, that seems like something true of most stories (romance, erotica, or otherwise) and many RL relationships.

But I'm guessing you're talking the latter - stroke stories that depend on "oh no! sis fell on my dick and now we're fucking!" type of luck, or the romance equivalent, "there was only one bed so they had to share".

If that's the case, I think it's pretty common in romance but by no means ubiquitous. There are quite a few romances out there which avoid depending on "fate threw them together" beyond the initial meet-cute and instead focus on two people putting in the hard work to make it happen.

Some of them push against destiny tropes pretty hard. There's one I read a couple of years ago where the two protagonists are on a journey together, and as they approach the town where they're stopping for the night she starts thinking: what if there's only one bed left in the inn? Then we'd have to share, that would be destiny's way of telling us we're supposed to be together.

And then she thinks: wait, why am I relying on 'destiny' to decide this for me? I want this and I'm going to make it happen. So she uses her words to tell the guy that no matter how many beds the inn has available, she wants to share with him.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I read a comment indicating such on another thread, and it got me thinking.

I've always assumed that traditional pornography was consumed mainly by men, whilst the fairer sex tended to go for the slightly more subtle (in some cases ) written word. Not even sure why I assume this, just something I read years ago.

I'd already picked up that my 'work' wasn't likely to appeal to the female audience as much as the male, and this appears to be loosely confirmed when browsing comments and the names of those who follow me.

I suspect that there is a core of females on here, both the audience and the creators. But are there any actual metrics anywhere to give us an idea of just what the ratio between men/women (and other) may be?

This is most definitely a male centric site... IMO at least.
I have made my own assumptions, and believe the ratio is something like 80% Male. That is merely my take on it.
I have talked with other writers and they think that ratio is about right.
I think a lot of males here want to believe there is a larger proportion of women, but I don't think that's the case.
Porn sites, like dating sites are predominantly male... Just a simple twist of fate.
Even reading in the Lesbian category. Over 70% of the stories are written by men... IMO... Lets make that clear. I speak only for myself, not the whole human race.

Cagivagurl

 

[Escierto]

This is most definitely a male centric site... IMO at least.
I have made my own assumptions, and believe the ratio is something like 80% Male. That is merely my take on it.
I have talked with other writers and they think that ratio is about right.
I think a lot of males here want to believe there is a larger proportion of women, but I don't think that's the case.
Porn sites, like dating sites are predominantly male... Just a simple twist of fate.
Even reading in the Lesbian category. Over 70% of the stories are written by men... IMO... Lets make that clear. I speak only for myself, not the whole human race.

Cagivagurl

You may be only speaking for yourself but I agree with your assessment.

 

[samhasstories]

It is certainly entirely possible to write a good quick stroke story. I've never said otherwise. If you've mastered that, I'll take you at your word. But go read 100 random stroke stories here on lit and 90 to 95 of them will be poorly written male centric stories with unsexy men getting seduced by unicorns with little to no context at all. Why? because it's the exact same percentage of porn videos that have little to no context at all, you know the ones that show the woman completely and blur he mans face? And the five or 10 that are well written, all but one or two will still have the woman doing the seducing. So even though I can enjoy the prose, the average woman will still be disappointed with yet another unassertive 'subby' man. And once again, there's nothing wrong with that, but it won't do a thing to get the vast majority of female readers excited.

Sure. 90%, just like I said. My point is you'd have a similar experience with 100 random anything. Out of 100 random works that bill themselves as high-minded literary fiction 90 or so will be derivative, pretentious, overwritten. You can find some good and even great ones if you dig, if you follow some trends, certain writers, recommendations from people whose tastes you trust, etc.

We don't disagree on the crap. But you're using the reasons why the 90% is crap to cast generalizations on the whole. And that isn't instructive, because 90% of everything is crap. Though you're at pains to say there's nothing wrong with crap, even while you describe it as crappy.

I've used the word 'crap' too many times, and it's lost all meaning.

 

[AchtungNight]

I like destiny stories myself, easier to establish consent that way and not create something that makes me cringe. I’ll use one of my own stories for example- Ruleskirter. Doug and Lisa fight the Ogre together, there’s an instant mutual attraction, both are lonely, they’re instantly motivated to get to know each other and go have dinner together, then she drives him home. A few more dates later, they’re shagging. They date all throughout college, then separate for a while to work out their careers and then- it takes longer than most people might, but that’s destiny for you!- comes marriage and happiness ever after.

This stuff is way more attractive and arousing for me than forcing two people together and creating an uncomfortable situation that neither will want to ever happen again. More realistic too. Who seeks out discomfort? Not me.

 

[lovecraft68]

Pinksilkglove, my bad.

I knew that.

I wanted you to say it so I could prove myself right about the forums being male centric.

That showed out big time in the Man/Bear thread that was shut down.

Is it her opinions that bother you, or the fact she doesn't kowtow to the AH boy's club?

Rhetorical question by the way.