Is the hook good enough?

[impressive]

Lift up your kilt.

I'll call you honeycakes.

Indeed.


ETA: It's just as easy to claim an influential and high-paying industry position on an anonymous forum as it is to invent an illness for attention. *shrug*

 

[sr71plt]

Indeed.


ETA: It's just as easy to claim an influential and high-paying industry position on an anonymous forum as it is to invent an illness for attention. *shrug*

I quite agree--that's why I reacted the way I did when that card was tried on me.

No, I won't index my mainstream credentials here. But what I write in erotica is clearly indexed here for anyone to see, and I have a history of posts on writing and publishing here just as you and Belegon do. I'm perfectly content to let the posters see the various points made and decide for themselves concerning their own writing.

 

[cloudy]

pssst...y'all just humor him. He has ego issues.

 

[Guest]

I quite agree--that's why I reacted the way I did when that card was tried on me.

No, I won't index my mainstream credentials here. But what I write in erotica is clearly indexed here for anyone to see, and I have a history of posts on writing and publishing here just as you and Belegon do. I'm perfectly content to let the posters see the various points made and decide for themselves concerning their own writing.

So it's decided!

Bel will definitely lift his kilt!

 

[impressive]

So it's decided!

Bel will definitely lift his kilt!

Oh, hell, just crawl under.

 

[impressive]

I quite agree--that's why I reacted the way I did when that card was tried on me.

No, I won't index my mainstream credentials here. But what I write in erotica is clearly indexed here for anyone to see, and I have a history of posts on writing and publishing here just as you and Belegon do. I'm perfectly content to let the posters see the various points made and decide for themselves concerning their own writing.

Oh, fuck that. A "history of posts on writing and publishing here" doesn't mean jack squat. I know you have a bibliography. Put up.

 

[Belegon]

So it's decided!

Bel will definitely lift his kilt!

Oh, hell, just crawl under.

If you ask nicely, I've even let people take pictures.

It's the people that take pictures without asking that annoy me.

...and lifting my kilt for Sarahh or letting Imp crawl under is a given. I'm stubborn, not stupid.

 

[jimmy_love_fl]

Oh, hell, just crawl under.

From my experience that works better for girls than for guys. Every time I crawl under a girls skirt I get slapped and thrown out. LMAO

 

[Guest]

Oh, hell, just crawl under.

Yum!!

 

[Guest]

If you ask nicely, I've even let people take pictures.

It's the people that take pictures without asking that annoy me.

...and lifting my kilt for Sarahh or letting Imp crawl under is a given. I'm stubborn, not stupid.

Laughing -

 

[Belegon]

I quite agree--that's why I reacted the way I did when that card was tried on me.

CARD? What fucking card?

A question was asked and I responded with a perspective that I qualified.
I simply validated my position. I can't and shouldn't assume a noob knows my history.

Assuming that I was "playing a card" on you is a kneejerk reaction at best. And totally inconsistent with the way I behave on Lit, something you have been here long enough to know.

I have no need to act superior to anyone and freely admit when I am wrong. I am constantly learning, and would not want it to be any other way.

 

[jimmy_love_fl]

Wow! I never expected to get so many responses on this thread. LOL

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, fuck that. A "history of posts on writing and publishing here" doesn't mean jack squat. I know you have a bibliography. Put up.

Ah, so, you don't know how to search on authors in the story file here or follow a sig line. Guess some people just "know" and don't have to do any research. Would you like that list gift wrapped and delivered to your door?

 

[gauchecritic]

I think the hook is in the first page too.

Then the blurb to tell me what the story is about. Then a quick squint through a random paragraph or two inside to look for readable consistency. But first page first every time.

By the way Jimmy, that synopsis looks v. enticing. unfortunately your writing isn't hooky enough for me.

Personal opinion (and gauche critique) eg:

An excruciating pain ripped through my body, like a thousand needles had just been thrust into my right leg. I almost fell to the ground again, but managed to keep myself upright.

An excruciating pain ran a thousand needles into my right leg. Stumbling I forced myself upright.

This is what editors are not supposed to do. (rewriting) but I don't have much grasp of the technical language. [though I know what I like].

 

[impressive]

Ah, so, you don't know how to search on authors in the story file here or follow a sig line. Guess some people just "know" and don't have to do any research. Would you like that list gift wrapped and delivered to your door?

Ah, geez. Sorry. I could've linked to Lit stuff -- which, as we all know, is rigorously screened for quality and a guarantee of expertise that anyone should accept. And, as much as I adore Selena, eXcessica is not a traditional publisher in the sense that someone is investing in you and gambling on your work returning that investment (and more) for the company. You got something else that's doesn't require a snide insult to share or is it all buried in your "real life" credentials?

(That was a rhetorical question, by the way. I already know the answer.)

I'm out. I shared my opinion with the thread starter. He can decide what advice to follow.

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, geez. Sorry. I could've linked to Lit stuff -- which, as we all know, is rigorously screened for quality and a guarantee of expertise that anyone should accept. And, as much as I adore Selena, eXcessica is not a traditional publisher in the sense that someone is investing in you and gambling on your work returning that investment (and more) for the company. You got something else that's doesn't require a snide insult to share or is it all buried in your "real life" credentials?

(That was a rhetorical question, by the way. I already know the answer.)

I'm out. I shared my opinion with the thread starter. He can decide what advice to follow.

Well, SINCE you insist on taking the low road and going for the "belittling," there are a few--just a few--comparisons available out there between thee and me.

I'm at a distinct disadavantage since I can't include anything from the mainstream and because you've been at this several years and I only started dabbling in it (that is, the erotica portion of my publishing history) two months ago (although I already have a dozen to your two dozen published in the erotica field).

HOWSOMEEVER there are a couple of venues where we meet up and can be compared--as long as you insist on being nasty about it.

We both do have listings at eXcessica, and Fictionwise provides comparison data by publisher on its sales. According to Fictionwise, two of mine are on the top-10 bestsellers list by publisher there (four in the top 20). My worst selling one is at 53. Your bestselling one starts at 57. And, ho hum, four of the ten top-rated ones are mine. Hmmm, you're not on that top-10 list at all.


We seem to overlap in only one genre category--anthology. Allromanceebooks is the only place I know of that will give us some head-to-head comparison there. And here we are talking sales all across the publishers, not just at one. As of a few minutes ago, my only anthology listed at Allromanceebooks is at number 4 on the bestsellers list. Your highest ranked anthology on that list is at number 21.

And Allromanceebooks across-the-publisher results are pretty much the same as Fictionwise's. My eXcessica books start at number 4 on the bestselling list and stretch down to number 45. Your's don't even start until number 57.

Not much in the way of head-to-head comparions, but it's the only grounds for such comparison that I can see at the moment. And I think it should be enough for you not to be so smug and nasty in tit for tatting. (But it probably isn't enough now that you have the bit between your teeth.)

 

[Belegon]

Well, SINCE you insist on taking the low road and going for the "belittling," there are a few--just a few--comparisons available out there between thee and me.

I'm at a distinct disadavantage since I can't include anything from the mainstream and because you've been at this several years and I only started dabbling in it two months ago (although I already have a dozen to your two dozen published in the erotica field).

HOWSOMEEVER there are a couple of venues where we meet up and can be compared--as long as you insist on being nasty about it.

We both do have listings at eXcessica, and Fictionwise provides comparison data by publisher on its sales. According to Fictionwise, two of mine are on the top-10 bestsellers list by publisher there (four in the top 20). My worst selling one is at 53. Your bestselling one starts at 57. And, ho hum, four of the ten top-rated ones are mine. Hmmm, you're not on that top-10 list at all.


We seem to overlap in only one genre category--anthology. Allromanceebooks is the only place I know of that will give us some head-to-head comparison there. And here we are talking sales all across the publishers, not just at one. As of a few minutes ago, my only anthology listed at Allromanceebooks is at number 4 on the bestsellers list. Your highest ranked anthology on that list is at number 21.

And Allromanceebooks across-the-publisher results are pretty much the same as Fictionwise's. My eXcessica books start at number 4 on the bestselling list and stretch down to number 45. Your's don't even start until number 57.

Not much in the way of head-to-head comparions, but it's the only grounds for such comparison that I can see at the moment. And I think it should be enough for you not to be so smug and nasty in tit for tatting. (But it probably isn't enough now that you have the bit between your teeth.)

Um. I'm sorry... you were referencing standard terminology with the existing publishing industry, right? That was the core of our discussion I thought?

While I certainly understand your reluctance to post personal information, your comments referencing sales numbers and your two months of dabbling have zero bearing and are irrelevant, save that by telling us you have published a dozen works in two months you bring up certain questions as to methodology within the erotica field.

As an editor, I am normally required to submit my edits, after having worked through them with the writer, a bare minimum of sixty days prior to electronic publication. And based on my experience and those of my associates, a sixty day turnaround in that area is dramatically quick compared to traditional NY print publishers.

In other words, I have to turn in finished product two months before release. Obviously, for me to have edited it, it must have been written prior to my editing it.

Thus, referencing your "dabbling" period of two months and pairing it with a dozen published works would hardly seem to be in support of your original argument.

Also, posting an "I outsell you, bitch!" comment hardly seems to support the idea that SHE is the one taking the "low road."

 

[sr71plt]

Um. I'm sorry... you were referencing standard terminology with the existing publishing industry, right? That was the core of our discussion I thought?

While I certainly understand your reluctance to post personal information, your comments referencing sales numbers and your two months of dabbling have zero bearing and are irrelevant, save that by telling us you have published a dozen works in two months you bring up certain questions as to methodology within the erotica field.

As an editor, I am normally required to submit my edits, after having worked through them with the writer, a bare minimum of sixty days prior to electronic publication. And based on my experience and those of my associates, a sixty day turnaround in that area is dramatically quick compared to traditional NY print publishers.

In other words, I have to turn in finished product two months before release. Obviously, for me to have edited it, it must have been written prior to my editing it.

Thus, referencing your "dabbling" period of two months and pairing it with a dozen published works would hardly seem to be in support of your original argument.

Also, posting an "I outsell you, bitch!" comment hardly seems to support the idea that SHE is the one taking the "low road."

Seems you need to be talking to impressive about this, not me. It was impressive who started the "mine is bigger than yours" tit for tatting" (Although it wasn't, really, it was you who started it way up there with the "we are getting paid (and we assume you are not)" attempt at a putdown in post #12).

As for the dabbling (not in publishing books--which I bet I started to do before you were born--but in publishing erotica), of course from my perspective, it looks more like in only a couple of months I was able to come in and wipe the floor with either or both of you already--so perhaps neither one of you should be so smug about the sales/quality in the comparisons that you two started making here.

I'm pretty sure we're finished with the original question--we chose to differ on the basis of our separate understandings of what the "hook" means and what the first sentence of anything should be expected to do.

It's impressive who pushed it over the "mine is bigger than yours" line--after you opened the door to that line of discussion in your post #12.

If you want it to stop, you both can just quit. Jimmy's been given his choices.

 

[cloudy]

Seems you need to be talking to impressive about this, not me. It was impressive who started the "mine is bigger than yours" tit for tatting" (Although it wasn't, really, it was you who started it way up there with the "we are getting paid (and we assume you are not)" attempt at a putdown in post #12).

As for the dabbling (not in publishing books--which I bet I started to do before you were born--but in publishing erotica), of course from my perspective, it looks more like in only a couple of months I was able to come in and wipe the floor with either or both of you already--so perhaps neither one of you should be so smug about the sales/quality in the comparisons that you two started making here.

I'm pretty sure we're finished with the original question--we chose to differ on the basis of our separate understandings of what the "hook" means and the first sentence of anything should be expected to do.

It's impressive who pushed it over the "mine is bigger than yours" line--after you opened the door to that line of discussion in your post #12.

If you want it to stop, you both can just quit. Jimmy's been given his choices.

*applause*

Such civility, such maturity!

Bravo, darling. I really am impressed.



(I've known Imp for years, and I'd believe what she told me, since I know her to be honest. You, on the other hand, are a windbag, who, if you are to be believed, has seen everything, lived everywhere, knows everything.)

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I don't like it. It's a gimmick and it drags on for too long. I wouldn't have the patience to stand there and go through all that stuff. Get to the point and get on with the story.

 

[Belegon]

Seems you need to be talking to impressive about this, not me. It was impressive who started the "mine is bigger than yours" tit for tatting" (Although it wasn't, really, it was you who started it way up there with the "we are getting paid (and we assume you are not)" attempt at a putdown in post #12).

As for the dabbling (not in publishing books--which I bet I started to do before you were born--but in publishing erotica), of course from my perspective, it looks more like in only a couple of months I was able to come in and wipe the floor with either or both of you already--so perhaps neither one of you should be so smug about the sales/quality in the comparisons that you two started making here.

I'm pretty sure we're finished with the original question--we chose to differ on the basis of our separate understandings of what the "hook" means and what the first sentence of anything should be expected to do.

It's impressive who pushed it over the "mine is bigger than yours" line--after you opened the door to that line of discussion in your post #12.

If you want it to stop, you both can just quit. Jimmy's been given his choices.

Actually, as I explained previously, I only ever brought up my position within the industry to explain why I felt my usage of "Hook" was a standard.

It was never a slap in your face. If you want to assume that it was a putdown of you, that says more about your own need for validation than anything else.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So I guess the question still stands. If I change the first sentence like was suggested. Does the rest of the chapter entice a publisher to keep reading?

Not yet...
Take a look at the way Impressive changed your first sentence. Can you see what she did? She pulled a couple of unnecessary words out of it. Simplify, simplify!

That's what you might want to try doing yourself, all the way through these paragraphs you've posted here.

Ignoring the pissing contest...

 

[sr71plt]

*applause*

Such civility, such maturity!

Bravo, darling. I really am impressed.



(I've known Imp for years, and I'd believe what she told me, since I know her to be honest. You, on the other hand, are a windbag, who, if you are to be believed, has seen everything, lived everywhere, knows everything.)

And to coin one of your own phrases . . .


And I should care, because . . . ?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Seriously, Jimmy? Your "Hook" goes on for way too long. This is an old gimmick, the "where am I?" opening. Get into it and get out of it as fast as you can and get the story moving.

You wake up, there's a fire and you're bleeding. Establish that and start your story. Taking a page to do this while you slowly come to your senses is way too long. That Thump Thump Thump doesn't work for my money.

I'm afraid to ask you what comes after this. It should be story. That's what will hook us. If you've got a bunch of backstory and explanation, you're screwed. If it is story, get into it as fast as you can and that will carry us along.

In my opinion, What you have here screams "HOOK!!!!!! CONTRIVED WRITING!!!"

That's my opinion. If people would stop fighting about what a fucking hook is, I'd like to hear some other opinions.

 

[Belegon]

That's my opinion. If people would stop fighting about what a fucking hook is, I'd like to hear some other opinions.

in between my poking (which I'll stop and accept as pointless, as long as he quits provoking my "white knight" response by attacking my lady love) I did briefly say that the only thing the opening made me want to do was look at his synopsis...

expanding on that, what I meant was that I was not captured by the writing so far, but was at least interested enough that I wanted to see if there was going to be something unique happening.

The further explanation of it was only mildly interesting, at least to me.