It's the Poem-A-Week Challenge Discussion Thread

[SapioSexual9]

A Quick Metrical Writing Exercise,
Completed in Seventeen Minutes,
Including Proofreading and Title

Take twenty minutes for your writing
In verse or prose—don't matter, mate.
The end result will be exciting
And taste as sweet as chocolate cake.
It's just an exercise, remember.
First throw some words into a blender
And out plops brilliance, real or feigned,
However twisted, crimped, and strained.
The difficulty's execution—
To say something that is both clear
And memorable, that's without peer,
Quite philosophic, right Confucian.
But then, it's practice, after all.
Why this is all linguistic sprawl.

@tzara’s master class in Free Write Speed Write. (17 mins).

 

[Waeponwifestre]

It’s a theory I’ve been working on. Enjambment affords the ability it to be inter-lineal connectors. I feel the same way about the ends of lines in a verse. They are opportunities to somehow subliminally drop down. Or at least I am trying to get back to that way of thinking.

Just thought of this - have you read Gawain and the Green Knight? The Gawain poet does this a decent bit with the wheel and bob structure they use. The first part of each stanza is typically purely narrative but the wheel and bob after the narrative part is used variously as an ironic counterpoint to the narrative, comments on it or as a lead in to the next part of the poem.

Might be something to take a look at? I always thought it was a fascinating way to interject non-narrative aspects into what is essentially epic poetry

 

[42BelowsBack]

No I haven’t but will do. Thanks for the read suggest. (Lol looks like I left an it in that shouldn’t be). Mah gramma!

 

[Waeponwifestre]

No I haven’t but will do. Thanks for the read suggest. (Lol looks like I left an it in that shouldn’t be). Mah gramma!

The same poet wrote a piece called Pearl actually that you may want to look at too. There’s a lot of repetition of words across the last line of a stanza into the first line of the next - this runs through the whole poem then at the very end where finally it repeats back to the beginning of the poem. Very cool ring structure.

 

[mousberry]

@42BelowsBack Ahh I love the Arthurian poems! I'm trying to write my own (shamefully erotica) version now but it's slow going. The Chretien de Troyes romances are my favourite. I'm more into prose writing so Malory is a close second.

 

[42BelowsBack]

@mousberry Waeponwifestre just introduced me to Syr Gawayne and The Green Knight. Loving Arthurian written and spoken English. And 1800s Academic language contained in other texts about this poem.

 

[mousberry]

@mousberry Waeponwifestre just introduced me to Syr Gawayne and The Green Knight. Loving Arthurian written and spoken English. And 1800s Academic language.

There is an awesome book called The Autumn of the Middle Ages by Johan Huizinga written in 1919. That book really got me into the whole feeling of the period. He doesn't do dry historical facts. It's more of an art history and cultural history and he has such fun and flowery writing. My lecturer warned me against taking everything as fact as some stuff has changed since then but I think it's mostly good. It's definitely good for getting the vibe of the period. Gahhhh it makes me want to live back then although I do know how awful it really was.

Also The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnelle I would highly recommend. Are you getting by without translations?

 

[42BelowsBack]

Are you getting by without translations?

Um, most of it is readily understandable so far. The odd word I glean the meaning from the context e.g. ‘sew’ vegetables or a kind of vegetable, which I gleaned from the surrounding text, boiled, baked, roasted, steamed etc.

The Autumn of the Middle Ages by Johan Huizinga written in 1919. Will have a look. But first I have some Jazz poems to dig into. My elite reading list gets bigger lol.

 

[mousberry]

Um, most of it is readily understandable so far. The odd word I glean the meaning from the context e.g. ‘sew’ vegetables or a kind of vegetable, which I gleaned from the surrounding text, boiled, baked, roasted, steamed etc.

The Autumn of the Middle Ages by Johan Huizinga written in 1919. Will have a look. But first I have some Jazz poems to dig into. My elite reading list gets bigger lol.

Yea it took me a while to get used to. It annoyed me a slightly that my local books shop only carried a translated version of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

Also to burden you with yet more further reading A Crisis of Truth by Richard Firth Green is really good. The concept of 'truth' in these medieval texts is super interesting because of course they didn't have proper court rooms which demanded proper evidence like we do. When Gawain is introduced he is said to be 'true' or 'trwe' which isn't truth as we know it. It was a concept which tied in five virtues which make up chivalry and is symbolised in the pentangle displayed on his shield. It's more of a social understanding that a person acts well and can therefore be trusted. And of course the whole poem is a little play on these slightly misleading agreements and challenges and the honesty required to fulfil them. Supposedly if you are a 'true' person God will surely protect you which contextualises those trial by combat etc they used to have.

 

[12oclocktales]

I hope you don’t mind my butting in here, but these jazz poems are absolutely fantastic and have captivated me almost as much as the music does, Duke’s music especially. You capture the essence of the music in an intelligent yet emotionally honest way – not a lot of chaotic rambling thinking that’s the only way to get at the excitement. Duke and trains went together like bacon and eggs; he absolutely loved them and wrote several songs about them. In the Daybreak Express section you specifically mention 1936, which confused me because I didn’t know whether you were talking about the actual recording of that title, which was made in Dec.’33 or just generally/symbolically, and figured you meant the latter because you also mention Strays who didn’t join Duke until ’39. Boorishly picky, I know, sorry. I just remember the coals Clint Eastwood got raked over for straying off the “truth” when he made Bird. But seriously, I really love these poems.

And now just posted before I could hit Send, Lester, Hodges, and Blakey. I've got to shut up, this is fantastic.

 

[Angeline]

I hope you don’t mind my butting in here, but these jazz poems are absolutely fantastic and have captivated me almost as much as the music does, Duke’s music especially. You capture the essence of the music in an intelligent yet emotionally honest way – not a lot of chaotic rambling thinking that’s the only way to get at the excitement. Duke and trains went together like bacon and eggs; he absolutely loved them and wrote several songs about them. In the Daybreak Express section you specifically mention 1936, which confused me because I didn’t know whether you were talking about the actual recording of that title, which was made in Dec.’33 or just generally/symbolically, and figured you meant the latter because you also mention Strays who didn’t join Duke until ’39. Boorishly picky, I know, sorry. I just remember the coals Clint Eastwood got raked over for straying off the “truth” when he made Bird. But seriously, I really love these poems.

And now just posted before I could hit Send, Lester, Hodges, and Blakey. I've got to shut up, this is fantastic.

Thank you!!!

It's all kind of a mess now. I adore jazz, its culture as much as the music and have been listening, reading and studying it for years. I'm trying to pull all these disparate pieces together into either a chapbook or a collection (depending on how many poems I end up keeping). It's a massive job (already giving me headaches lol), but I really want to make it happen this year.

It's great to meet another jazz lover. I really appreciate your feedback and welcome it anytime. I know there are errors I need to correct...otoh anyone who loves the music knows jazz folks will argue over whether night is dark or day is light!

 

[42BelowsBack]

Yea it took me a while to get used to. It annoyed me a slightly that my local books shop only carried a translated version of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

Also to burden you with yet more further reading A Crisis of Truth by Richard Firth Green is really good. The concept of 'truth' in these medieval texts is super interesting because of course they didn't have proper court rooms which demanded proper evidence like we do. When Gawain is introduced he is said to be 'true' or 'trwe' which isn't truth as we know it. It was a concept which tied in five virtues which make up chivalry and is symbolised in the pentangle displayed on his shield. It's more of a social understanding that a person acts well and can therefore be trusted. And of course the whole poem is a little play on these slightly misleading agreements and challenges and the honesty required to fulfil them. Supposedly if you are a 'true' person God will surely protect you which contextualises those trial by combat etc they used to have.

In reading your post it is highly likely I mistookingly tooketh the translated version for the trwe version. If you imagine a T-Rex fumbling around in a swamp looking for a Hipo-botamist you have discovered my lizard brain’s quest for new knowledge. I will give it ago. I will enjoy it. I will come away with the wrong idea and misppellings.

I appreciate the explanation ‘It was a concept which tied in five virtues which make up chivalry and is symbolised in the pentangle displayed on his shield.’ I thought 5 virtues must be the six senses. So we see I miss Got it!

@SpermFactory what do you see when you read ‘It's more of a social understanding that a person acts well and can therefore be trusted.’ It’s either a poem about that or a paint by numbers Blues challenge poem buddy.

Thank’s for sharing Mousberry, you are formally invited to compose an Arthurian poem. Both untranslated and a translated translation of the translation (for me ).

 

[Waeponwifestre]

Not sure how to link to another post but I made a post in the linked readings thread with three of J. R. R. Tolkien’s poems. Full disclosure - I am a Tolkien fan, I recognize he’s not for everyone but I think he’s a pretty great writer. I also think his poetry is actually incredibly interesting and very much worth taking a look at as well as being woefully underrated and under analyzed.

First of all, I think we should probably acknowledge that a big part of that has to do with the fact that the majority of his poetry is in his books, which while I think are great in a lot of ways are also very much lumped in with genre fiction. I think it’s pretty well acknowledged that fantasy and science fiction writers are generally not taken as seriously as literary fiction writers. In addition, because most of Tolkien’s poetry is in his fiction, they mostly function as diagetic pieces. We’re not getting a straightforward glimpse of the poet’s inner world in most of his poems, but rather they are filtered through fictional characters and cultures to reinforce the setting. In a sense, this is what I actually think is so interesting about a lot of his poetry - so much of it has to exist in a shared mythos and not only function as a hymn, song, battle-cry or old piece of lore but they all must collectively contribute to building the settting of Middle-Earth and the people within it. Two of the poems I linked are are from The Lord of the Rings, while the other was published separately and has no connection to it (beyond using an invented form that also appears in The Lord of the Rings)

Errantry is the odd one out here. It’s an invented form in iambic tetrameter based around trisyllabic assonances - the first and third syllables of the ending of line one rhyme or near rhyme with the second and fourth syllables of the second line in each quatrain, then the ending of the second line rhymes with the ending of the fourth line, while the ending of the third line also uses similar sounds as the second and fourth syllables in the fourth line. I actually tried to incorporate a little bit of this in one of my poems I posted on Lit (The Hands I Held, my try at a rondeau redoublé which is also kind of anti-synergistic with this technique due to the nature of a rondeau). It is exceedingly difficult to keep up - which is probably why Errantry and The Song of Eärendil in LoTR are, as far as I know, the only times Tolkien used the form in a finished poem.

I will only briefly talk about I Sit Beside the Fire and Think - I really love this poem but it kind of needs less analysis than the others. I do think it’s also a great example of diagetic writing though - at the point in LoTR Bilbo recites this he is essentially retired in Rivendell. I believe this is after the chapter where they have the big meeting and the Fellowship is formed - where Bilbo offers to take the Ring to Mordor and is very politely told that his time for adventuring is now over. I think it functions very well as characterization for an old hero is now essentially put out to pasture - all he has to look forward to at that point is looking back on his life and waiting for news of other people he cares about.

That leaves the Ring poem, which is really kind of a weird poem in a lot of ways. Here’s Tolkien reading it.

This one always stuck out to me until I realized it very literally is two poems stitched together - the inscription on The One Ring surrounded by an Elven poem explaining the lore of the rings of power. We see a lot of parallelism in the first four lines, as well as a gradual almost darkening of the end of each line - we go from “under the sky” to “their halls of stone” to “men doomed to die” to “on his dark throne”. Each of the first three lines corresponding to the elves, dwarves and men mirrors a lot of the poetic devices found in other poems written by the cultures throughout LoTR.

“Three rings for the Elven kings under the sky” the Elven poetry we see throughout LoTR has a tendency to utilize internal rhymes.

“Seven for the Dwarf-Lords in their halls of stone” The Dwarven poetry found in the Hobbit and LoTR tends to be relatively unadorned, non-alliterative accentual verse. The phoneme choices tend to be almost a little abrasive, definitely harsher than the Elven poetry.

“Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die” this one is especially interesting to me because it’s in alliterative verse! Throughout LoTR, our main windows into the culture of Men are Gondor and the Rohirrim. Gondor is explicitly stated to have more Elven influence due to being founded by Númenorians (this is Silmarillion shit I won’t get into), but the Rohirrim are very much based on the Anglo-Saxons, and a lot of their poetry and songs, dialogue and even prose sections utilize a lot of alliterative verse.

I think it’s really cool how these first three lines are composed specifically to reflect the three cultures Tolkien is writing about.
The Ring verse itself, the well known

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

is, if I’m not mistaken, written in the Eddic poetry form Ljóðaháttr (chant meter) compressed down into two lines rather than the usual four. You see this meter pop up all throughout the Poetic Eddas when spells are being cast or chanted. There is a lot of Norse and Germanic mythology influence in Lord of the Rings, but I believe this is the only time an Eddic meter is used in the novels. I think it really does give those two lines a real sense of otherness to the rest of the poem and really a lot of the other poetry in general.

I think I’m about out of steam for this post, but I just think it’s very interesting to think about poetry almost as set dressing or ways to glue together a setting or larger piece - it’s not something I’ve seen a lot of writing about or people doing.

 

[SpermFactory]

I would just like to say most impressive @Waeponwifestre. You do you and we will love you for it. Tolkien poetry!

I would just like to say, @42BelowsBack I want to kill you It took all my will power not to write a Blind Willie Blues poem.

And. Now that I’ve done it. I would just like to say, come all ye chickens there’s a Blues poem Challenge on!

 

[SpermFactory]

what do you see when you read ‘It's more of a social understanding that a person acts well and can therefore be trusted.’ It’s either a poem about that or a paint by numbers Blues challenge poem buddy.

Thinking I’d chosen the easy option, I discovered writing a Blues poem is very intense.

 

[SapioSexual9]

Not sure how to link to another post but I made a post in the linked readings thread with three of J. R. R. Tolkien’s poems. Full disclosure - I am a Tolkien fan, I recognize he’s not for everyone but I think he’s a pretty great writer. I also think his poetry is actually incredibly interesting and very much worth taking a look at as well as being woefully underrated and under analyzed.

First of all, I think we should probably acknowledge that a big part of that has to do with the fact that the majority of his poetry is in his books, which while I think are great in a lot of ways are also very much lumped in with genre fiction. I think it’s pretty well acknowledged that fantasy and science fiction writers are generally not taken as seriously as literary fiction writers. In addition, because most of Tolkien’s poetry is in his fiction, they mostly function as diagetic pieces. We’re not getting a straightforward glimpse of the poet’s inner world in most of his poems, but rather they are filtered through fictional characters and cultures to reinforce the setting. In a sense, this is what I actually think is so interesting about a lot of his poetry - so much of it has to exist in a shared mythos and not only function as a hymn, song, battle-cry or old piece of lore but they all must collectively contribute to building the settting of Middle-Earth and the people within it. Two of the poems I linked are are from The Lord of the Rings, while the other was published separately and has no connection to it (beyond using an invented form that also appears in The Lord of the Rings)

Errantry is the odd one out here. It’s an invented form in iambic tetrameter based around trisyllabic assonances - the first and third syllables of the ending of line one rhyme or near rhyme with the second and fourth syllables of the second line in each quatrain, then the ending of the second line rhymes with the ending of the fourth line, while the ending of the third line also uses similar sounds as the second and fourth syllables in the fourth line. I actually tried to incorporate a little bit of this in one of my poems I posted on Lit (The Hands I Held, my try at a rondeau redoublé which is also kind of anti-synergistic with this technique due to the nature of a rondeau). It is exceedingly difficult to keep up - which is probably why Errantry and The Song of Eärendil in LoTR are, as far as I know, the only times Tolkien used the form in a finished poem.

I will only briefly talk about I Sit Beside the Fire and Think - I really love this poem but it kind of needs less analysis than the others. I do think it’s also a great example of diagetic writing though - at the point in LoTR Bilbo recites this he is essentially retired in Rivendell. I believe this is after the chapter where they have the big meeting and the Fellowship is formed - where Bilbo offers to take the Ring to Mordor and is very politely told that his time for adventuring is now over. I think it functions very well as characterization for an old hero is now essentially put out to pasture - all he has to look forward to at that point is looking back on his life and waiting for news of other people he cares about.

That leaves the Ring poem, which is really kind of a weird poem in a lot of ways. Here’s Tolkien reading it.

This one always stuck out to me until I realized it very literally is two poems stitched together - the inscription on The One Ring surrounded by an Elven poem explaining the lore of the rings of power. We see a lot of parallelism in the first four lines, as well as a gradual almost darkening of the end of each line - we go from “under the sky” to “their halls of stone” to “men doomed to die” to “on his dark throne”. Each of the first three lines corresponding to the elves, dwarves and men mirrors a lot of the poetic devices found in other poems written by the cultures throughout LoTR.

“Three rings for the Elven kings under the sky” the Elven poetry we see throughout LoTR has a tendency to utilize internal rhymes.

“Seven for the Dwarf-Lords in their halls of stone” The Dwarven poetry found in the Hobbit and LoTR tends to be relatively unadorned, non-alliterative accentual verse. The phoneme choices tend to be almost a little abrasive, definitely harsher than the Elven poetry.

“Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die” this one is especially interesting to me because it’s in alliterative verse! Throughout LoTR, our main windows into the culture of Men are Gondor and the Rohirrim. Gondor is explicitly stated to have more Elven influence due to being founded by Númenorians (this is Silmarillion shit I won’t get into), but the Rohirrim are very much based on the Anglo-Saxons, and a lot of their poetry and songs, dialogue and even prose sections utilize a lot of alliterative verse.

I think it’s really cool how these first three lines are composed specifically to reflect the three cultures Tolkien is writing about.
The Ring verse itself, the well known

One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them
One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

is, if I’m not mistaken, written in the Eddic poetry form Ljóðaháttr (chant meter) compressed down into two lines rather than the usual four. You see this meter pop up all throughout the Poetic Eddas when spells are being cast or chanted. There is a lot of Norse and Germanic mythology influence in Lord of the Rings, but I believe this is the only time an Eddic meter is used in the novels. I think it really does give those two lines a real sense of otherness to the rest of the poem and really a lot of the other poetry in general.

I think I’m about out of steam for this post, but I just think it’s very interesting to think about poetry almost as set dressing or ways to glue together a setting or larger piece - it’s not something I’ve seen a lot of writing about or people doing.

@Waeponwifestre this is magical, more magical than anything anyone has ever written about Tolkien or LOTR.

LOTR POETRY

 

[42BelowsBack]

Thinking I’d chosen the easy option, I discovered writing a Blues poem is very intense.

1. Every Lit poet knows never listen to my onion aka opinion. Your eyes will water peeling it back. You will discover what sounded like a dumb idea really was a dumb idea.

@SpermFactory what do you see when you read ‘It's more of a social understanding that a person acts well and can therefore be trusted.’ It’s either a poem about that or a paint by numbers Blues challenge poem buddy.

2. Glad you, not I, decided to not write a One eyed Willie poem. Then again (pahaha).

3. I really liked the shoe shine idea. Especially choosing a name that doesn’t seem to exist i.e. Chicago Charlie obviously never made it. Lol I looked Charlie up ain’t no one home play’n Blues, only in a SF poem.

Maybe when you are ready, a rewrite maybe to tighten the idea? There are plenty of poems and poets to emulate here. If you didn’t already, check out the 20s Blues poets. Buy always, always, stay true to your own voice and style.

 

[SpermFactory]

Maybe when you are ready, a rewrite maybe to tighten the idea? There are plenty of poems and poets to emulate here. If you didn’t already, check out the 20s Blues poets. Buy always, always, stay true to your own voice and style.

Naw seriously, how about you rewrite it with your blind eyed willie? Being serious is traumatic.

Tortoise, Horny Rabbit spunked 8 poems thus far, Time for a willie nap.

 

[SmilingLez]

Currently I am working on a free verse based on in 1950s Paris, a homage to Hemingway's A Movable Feast. What is the most romantic song in french? I want to include some lyrics for my main character development. She is a torch singer. TIA

 

[mousberry]

Currently I am working on a free verse based on in 1950s Paris, a homage to Hemingway's A Movable Feast. What is the most romantic song in french? I want to include some lyrics for my main character development. She is a torch singer. TIA

This is Je t'aime moi non plus by Serge Gainsbourg and Jane Birkin. I don't have an effing clue what they're saying but you can tell it's super romantic just from the voices. God I love French people so much.

Also Plus fort que nous from the Un Homme et un Femme movie. Again I haven't a clue what they're saying but I've seen the movie and I can vouch that it's heartbreakingly romantic.

Honourable mention Tous les garçons et les filles by Françoise Hardy but I just love that song. And also L'été indien by Joe Dassin.

It might be fun to watch Un Homme et un Femme and also Amelie if you get a chance. I think the feeling of romantic France would help.

 

[Waeponwifestre]

It took all my will power not to write a Blind Willie Blues poem.

Glad you, not I decided to not write a One eyed Willie poem.

I, on the other hand, am happy to rise to the challenge of laying down some Willie blues.

EDIT: gah, I misread! And almost missed 42’s Blues poem!

Please accept my apologies for not trusting you’d also be there in the depths of dick poetry!

 

[liChat]

1.2 (continued)

Use your imagination
when you look at a map.

[...]

I am so insecure that this first line feels offensive to me.

Then the second line adds an insult to injury.

Yes, Jazz is Great! -- I am all for it.

 

[Angeline]

I am so insecure that this first line feels offensive to me.

Then the second line adds an insult to injury.

Yes, Jazz is Great! -- I am all for it.

Thank you for the feedback. Yes everything in the thread needs a good going over!

 

[42BelowsBack]

I am so insecure that this first line feels offensive to me.

Then the second line adds an insult to injury.

I imagine you fuck up and write a poem. Lit”s tiniest troll.

 

[SpermFactory]

‘Its’ a map.