Kindness and Dominance

[Master_Doctor]

Being unkind and disrespectful are incompatible with being a dom - they are essentially only compatible with being a scumbag.

Now, if we're talking sexual humiliation, in the context of sexual play, that's different. But if you're unkind and disrespectful, you're basically unfit for human companionship.

Absolutely. Besides who says I cant sexually humiliate a beautiful woman all the while being kind and respectful? Many times... its not WHAT you say... its how you say it. Tone and inflection can be everything.

Personally speaking. I find it hotter when I can to all outwards appearance be a perfect gentleman while keeping my girl absolutely dripping.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Yes, I guess I am, but maybe I did not express it really clearly. Physical pain and emotional was usually done during BDSM sessions or exhibiting me to others, but he was able to balance this with our everyday life together. He provided for me. Supported me in my career (photographers model). He was good as a protector, I always felt secure both physically , emotionally and financially. Our marriage was not what most would think of as a marriage. He was looking for someone like me when we met. He knew what and who I was before we met.

His passing was not unexpected and it has been almost 5 years now since his passing and I am doing well now. Confused at ties with everyday life things he always took care of. but I have help with the important things. Thank you for your concern.

I have mentioned a time of two that I had and older(than me at least ) Master as a personal mentor. He was an ex military specialist, who owned a younger wife/slave. He was a gentleman Master. I never once heard him raise his voice at anyone. He was amazingly supportive of her... supported her advanced education and she was the apple of his eye and vise versa. He passed a couple of years ago now. He left a hold not only in her heart and mine, but in an entire community. He always showed respect to others until they proved that they were unworthy of it. I know you say your doing well. But I understand well what loosing such an person means. I grieve with you.

 

[TANSTAAFL58]

I think all this just emphasizes that there is no such thing as "One True Dom". D/s relationships are in a broad spectrum. There is a huge diversity in how we all act 24/7 and how we play. Am I less a Dominant person because we restrict our D/s relationship to the bedroom? (Well, "bedroom" is flexible) I don't think so.

The distinction is that the Dominant person respects and cares for their submissive person (and visa versa). They both derive pleasure from however they express power exchange. That includes just about every kink we talk about here. The key is that respect and care. Otherwise, whatever you're doing as a PYL to your pyl is abuse.

Kindness as you call it OP, isn't weakness. I think its more an expression of patience. How do you react to "bratty" behaviour? Sometimes my favourite words are "Make me." That typically kicks play up a notch. It doesn't imply that I need to get "mean" or "teach her a lesson she won't forget". I never raise my voice, and impact play is play. It means we're gonna have extra fun. (And, your mileage may vary).

And, in the morning, I'm gonna make breakfast and she's gonna do the dishes. Does that make me weak? Does that make me an Alpha. Nope. It makes us happy. I'd worry less about theory and more about practice as it applies to satisfaction.

 

[ultramarineblue]

.

It was an old guard belief that you could not be an effective Master if you had emotional connections with your sub/ slaves. A mentor of mine and I struggles and researched this conundrum for over 10 years. An unbiased, honest result was... frankly that they were correct in concept. Being emotionally attached to someone does open you up to being manipulated and limits your effectiveness because you want them to love you back and you dont want them to think badly of you.... and you honestly dont want to hurt them in a bad way... so we came to two conclusions.

1) yes. having emotional connections does restrict your ability to be an absolute Master over another person. It just does. When all the fact are examined... you really cant deny it.

2) We also determined that being a Master of someone else without that emotional connection... Isnt worth it or desireable for my and my mentor. Its just not worth doing for us.

So in the end. We decided to just do the best we can be while accepting the wisdom and the truth that our emotional connections weaken us... but our love for our subs is what makes it all worth doing to begin with.

I can agree with both mostly except that I think you can show love in a non-traditional way. For me having my face slapped means someone cares enough about me to give me that. If someone has trouble being rough with me during play or being the one that absolutely calls the shots, that's when I'm more likely to become manipulative and that person just simply isn't very effective with me.

I know that a lot of people work differently than that though in that they don't want to risk hurting someone in a bad way if they have an emotional connection. I'm more willing to explore things that may result being hurt in a bad way with someone I have a lot of trust with. I also own that I made the decision to explore something that might not turn out great and I will safeword as soon as I realize I need to do so.

I imagine most people want to just have fun with it and I'm all about the fun too. However, there are many things that I likely once thought a hard limit that I actually like. There is one thing that I thought I was neutral on that is a hard limit. There are things that I thought would be erotic that are neutral. It wasn't until I tried them with trusted partners that I learned how I really reacted to them.

As far as emotional connection, I would say that I'm in love romantically with any of those people but I have a great love for them as a friend. Whether or not it would ever become more of a romantic love is something I don't know nor care to ponder unless it was something the other person was considering. I've been close to most of them for around four years give or take a few months.

I would imagine there are others that feel this way and that I'm not very unusual in those aspects but I really don't have any idea.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.

I think the key is pairing the Doritos with the right wine.

I’ve missed you, friend.

Far!

 

[Master_Doctor]

I can agree with both mostly except that I think you can show love in a non-traditional way. For me having my face slapped means someone cares enough about me to give me that. If someone has trouble being rough with me during play or being the one that absolutely calls the shots, that's when I'm more likely to become manipulative and that person just simply isn't very effective with me.

I know that a lot of people work differently than that though in that they don't want to risk hurting someone in a bad way if they have an emotional connection. I'm more willing to explore things that may result being hurt in a bad way with someone I have a lot of trust with. I also own that I made the decision to explore something that might not turn out great and I will safeword as soon as I realize I need to do so.

I imagine most people want to just have fun with it and I'm all about the fun too. However, there are many things that I likely once thought a hard limit that I actually like. There is one thing that I thought I was neutral on that is a hard limit. There are things that I thought would be erotic that are neutral. It wasn't until I tried them with trusted partners that I learned how I really reacted to them.

As far as emotional connection, I would say that I'm in love romantically with any of those people but I have a great love for them as a friend. Whether or not it would ever become more of a romantic love is something I don't know nor care to ponder unless it was something the other person was considering. I've been close to most of them for around four years give or take a few months.

I would imagine there are others that feel this way and that I'm not very unusual in those aspects but I really don't have any idea.

Cool, as usual we are pretty close to being on he same page. Let me explore one of the perspectives (generalization again) that led to agreeing with the original concept...

Im ex Military. The purpose of basic training is to break you down and to build you back up to become something strong and useful for the service. There is no emotion involved, no emotional attachment except perhaps the emotion that comes from the fact you want to do all you can to ensure the safety of each of your service men and women.

My son trained hard for many years and eventually earned a 2nd degree Black belt. A significant achievement. Just like the military, before they granted the status of that significant rank, they put everyone through a rigorous physical, mental testing... because when you are exhausted out of your mind and body... your true character becomes apparent. All your shields are down and you literally dont have the energy to hide your true character. Just So, the military knows if you have the character they need to be a good soldier that would not cut and run at the first sign of conflict and the Martial Arts Masters know their students have the character to handle the mantle of a significant and possibly deadly rank (as yes, everyone with a Black Belt and above must register themselves as a deadly weapon with the police.

I was allowed to go to the retreat (twice, for each of his ranks). There were many students and many friends and families that were there to support them. The students were not allowed to sleep for the entire weekend, they would work out in one form or another all weekend. Meals were quick. I had vivid memories of Basic Training while I walked around watching all the goings on. Just as in the military. The Masters did not explain what they were doing. That might invalidate the test. But they keep notes of each student and their reactions during the weekend.

During the weekend... there were many parents and siblings (who were not themselves into martial arts who were upset and complaining because their child wasnt getting enough rest... they didnt get enough down time. Had it been up to these parents... the student would NOT have gotten to the point to where their character could have been accurately assessed.

So my point is this. If as a Master. I am tasked to train a submissive to go from A to Z in a particular training regiment (you pick something the sub wants to learn). If I have no emotional connection with this person. I have no personal bias if they pass of fail. I also will treat them the same as any other sub I might be asked to learn the same thing. Their training will always be, by the book.

If I have an emotional connection to them however. I have a personal investment in their success. I will be tempted to make it easier (or harder, depending on personality type) on them then a complete stranger. They may not learn as well as a stranger because I may be more focused on the relationship... In the end. Without a doubt. I will be to some degree compromised because of our relationship and our emotional connection. Im not saying its good or bad. It just IS. Trust me, I fought this concept for 10 years before I forced myself locally and rationally to accept it. I still wont have a sub/ slave in this manner... but I accept the inevitable compromised condition and do everything I can to minimize it. But it clearly exists. but for me, I wouldnt have a M/s or D/s any other way... because without the connection... it is simply not worth it for me to do.

ultramarineblue: thank you for the intellectual discourse. I agree with you as well. I give my girls what they need regardless of my personal preferences. If she needs spanked. I will do that for her. If she needs to feel her face slapped I will do so... as long as I can do my best to do so in the safest manner possible. Because you are absolutely correct. If its something she feels that she needs... me saying no, I wont do it. tells her I dont care about her or her needs.

Just because its not one of my listed limits... doesnt mean I enjoy it

 

[Master_Doctor]

I think all this just emphasizes that there is no such thing as "One True Dom". D/s relationships are in a broad spectrum. There is a huge diversity in how we all act 24/7 and how we play. Am I less a Dominant person because we restrict our D/s relationship to the bedroom? (Well, "bedroom" is flexible) I don't think so.

The distinction is that the Dominant person respects and cares for their submissive person (and visa versa). They both derive pleasure from however they express power exchange. That includes just about every kink we talk about here. The key is that respect and care. Otherwise, whatever you're doing as a PYL to your pyl is abuse.

Kindness as you call it OP, isn't weakness. I think its more an expression of patience. How do you react to "bratty" behaviour? Sometimes my favourite words are "Make me." That typically kicks play up a notch. It doesn't imply that I need to get "mean" or "teach her a lesson she won't forget". I never raise my voice, and impact play is play. It means we're gonna have extra fun. (And, your mileage may vary).

And, in the morning, I'm gonna make breakfast and she's gonna do the dishes. Does that make me weak? Does that make me an Alpha. Nope. It makes us happy. I'd worry less about theory and more about practice as it applies to satisfaction.

I absolutely agree with you! I often teach people that Dominants and submissives are unique individuals.... each with a unique make up and set of issues and baggage. They should be treated as such. I remember when I was still a young Dom / Master. I had a so called Dom/Master put me down and try to devalue me because I wasnt of the Old Guard. (which was a big thing back then, the Old guard were the absolute ideal of a Master). Then my mentor had heard this... I was shocked. His response was an absolute belly laugh. The last thing I expected from a career naval submariner. He looked at me and smiled again then began explain to me that of course I wasnt of the Old Guard Masters.... because your not Gay. He explained. Unbeknownst to me at the time, Old Guard Masters were all homosexual men.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I think all this just emphasizes that there is no such thing as "One True Dom". D/s relationships are in a broad spectrum. There is a huge diversity in how we all act 24/7 and how we play. Am I less a Dominant person because we restrict our D/s relationship to the bedroom? (Well, "bedroom" is flexible) I don't think so.

The distinction is that the Dominant person respects and cares for their submissive person (and visa versa). They both derive pleasure from however they express power exchange. That includes just about every kink we talk about here. The key is that respect and care. Otherwise, whatever you're doing as a PYL to your pyl is abuse.

Kindness as you call it OP, isn't weakness. I think its more an expression of patience. How do you react to "bratty" behaviour? Sometimes my favourite words are "Make me." That typically kicks play up a notch. It doesn't imply that I need to get "mean" or "teach her a lesson she won't forget". I never raise my voice, and impact play is play. It means we're gonna have extra fun. (And, your mileage may vary).

And, in the morning, I'm gonna make breakfast and she's gonna do the dishes. Does that make me weak? Does that make me an Alpha. Nope. It makes us happy. I'd worry less about theory and more about practice as it applies to satisfaction.

It's so true that there isn't one true way. To me a label just gives a starting point for understanding something or someone. All of the intricacies of how things fully work vary greatly from person to person and relationship to relationship. I really enjoyed reading your perspective.

Cool, as usual we are pretty close to being on he same page. Let me explore one of the perspectives (generalization again) that led to agreeing with the original concept...

Im ex Military. The purpose of basic training is to break you down and to build you back up to become something strong and useful for the service. There is no emotion involved, no emotional attachment except perhaps the emotion that comes from the fact you want to do all you can to ensure the safety of each of your service men and women.

My son trained hard for many years and eventually earned a 2nd degree Black belt. A significant achievement. Just like the military, before they granted the status of that significant rank, they put everyone through a rigorous physical, mental testing... because when you are exhausted out of your mind and body... your true character becomes apparent. All your shields are down and you literally dont have the energy to hide your true character. Just So, the military knows if you have the character they need to be a good soldier that would not cut and run at the first sign of conflict and the Martial Arts Masters know their students have the character to handle the mantle of a significant and possibly deadly rank (as yes, everyone with a Black Belt and above must register themselves as a deadly weapon with the police.

I was allowed to go to the retreat (twice, for each of his ranks). There were many students and many friends and families that were there to support them. The students were not allowed to sleep for the entire weekend, they would work out in one form or another all weekend. Meals were quick. I had vivid memories of Basic Training while I walked around watching all the goings on. Just as in the military. The Masters did not explain what they were doing. That might invalidate the test. But they keep notes of each student and their reactions during the weekend.

During the weekend... there were many parents and siblings (who were not themselves into martial arts who were upset and complaining because their child wasnt getting enough rest... they didnt get enough down time. Had it been up to these parents... the student would NOT have gotten to the point to where their character could have been accurately assessed.

So my point is this. If as a Master. I am tasked to train a submissive to go from A to Z in a particular training regiment (you pick something the sub wants to learn). If I have no emotional connection with this person. I have no personal bias if they pass of fail. I also will treat them the same as any other sub I might be asked to learn the same thing. Their training will always be, by the book.

If I have an emotional connection to them however. I have a personal investment in their success. I will be tempted to make it easier (or harder, depending on personality type) on them then a complete stranger. They may not learn as well as a stranger because I may be more focused on the relationship... In the end. Without a doubt. I will be to some degree compromised because of our relationship and our emotional connection. Im not saying its good or bad. It just IS. Trust me, I fought this concept for 10 years before I forced myself locally and rationally to accept it. I still wont have a sub/ slave in this manner... but I accept the inevitable compromised condition and do everything I can to minimize it. But it clearly exists. but for me, I wouldnt have a M/s or D/s any other way... because without the connection... it is simply not worth it for me to do.

ultramarineblue: thank you for the intellectual discourse. I agree with you as well. I give my girls what they need regardless of my personal preferences. If she needs spanked. I will do that for her. If she needs to feel her face slapped I will do so... as long as I can do my best to do so in the safest manner possible. Because you are absolutely correct. If its something she feels that she needs... me saying no, I wont do it. tells her I dont care about her or her needs.

Just because its not one of my listed limits... doesnt mean I enjoy it

The aspect of being so exhausted that you show your true character is so very true. I know that's something I wish was stronger for me because I don't like myself very much when I'm at that state.

I've really enjoyed this as well. Thank you.

 

[Master_Doctor]

It's so true that there isn't one true way. To me a label just gives a starting point for understanding something or someone. All of the intricacies of how things fully work vary greatly from person to person and relationship to relationship. I really enjoyed reading your perspective.



The aspect of being so exhausted that you show your true character is so very true. I know that's something I wish was stronger for me because I don't like myself very much when I'm at that state.

I've really enjoyed this as well. Thank you.

I have to agree. I get a bit cranky myself... honestly I think because Im too tired to do what I want to do... and I get a bit impatient. You are of course always very welcome. Im edified that my messages have value to you (or anyone). Ive had a few emails thanking me for sharing. So im glad im not rubing everying the wrong way

 

[ultramarineblue]

I have to agree. I get a bit cranky myself... honestly I think because Im too tired to do what I want to do... and I get a bit impatient. You are of course always very welcome. Im edified that my messages have value to you (or anyone). Ive had a few emails thanking me for sharing. So im glad im not rubing everying the wrong way

I think it's important to explore and learn and push. Otherwise there isn't growth. I often feel as though I just ramble on and annoy people. I find different ideas and opinions to help me understand the world greater.

 

[sweettalk4u]

So true. My dominance is gradual because I feel it allows her to form good submissive habits from the tasks I have her doing. But as you say this is sometimes taken as a lack of dominance especially online.

 

[WannabeMontrealSlut]

Dominance

I completely agree with you that it is compatible. For me, it is even essential. A dom without a soft side has no interest in my eyes.

That being said, some people crave other things. BDSM is such a vast world with a variety of kinks and needs. No Dom is a good fit to every sub and vice versa.

It is always a question of finding the right fit for you.

 

[SeeMeRolling]

I think it's important to explore and learn and push. Otherwise there isn't growth. I often feel as though I just ramble on and annoy people. I find different ideas and opinions to help me understand the world greater.

I have always been an asker of questions. More times than not I ask someone a question that "no one has asked me before". Which I can never tell if the person is annoyed at that or intrigued.

Usually I get the feeling that the person is annoyed. Oh well, I like to ask questions and I like to see the connections between various subjects. Nothing is isolaed.

 

[ultramarineblue]

I have always been an asker of questions. More times than not I ask someone a question that "no one has asked me before". Which I can never tell if the person is annoyed at that or intrigued.

Usually I get the feeling that the person is annoyed. Oh well, I like to ask questions and I like to see the connections between various subjects. Nothing is isolaed.

I'm very similar to that. People don't tell me really that no one has ever asked them that but it just may be mood that people are so used to me asking questions.

 

[SeeMeRolling]

I'm very similar to that. People don't tell me really that no one has ever asked them that but it just may be mood that people are so used to me asking questions.

My spouse hates when we go to a museum or gallery. I need to read every plaque, and ask all the questions.

 

[Beachaged]

That is great input, thank you. But I believe I may have expressed myself poorly. I am not talking about necessarily showing kindness and respect in the midst of a Dom/sub sexual encounter. That is a completely different dynamic. I am taking about showing appreciation for her outside of that in the context of the relationship if there is one.

No I understood completely what you were referring to in your post. Sensual domination is still domination. But I think people who are sensualists tend to be more Compassionate people and treat people respectfully when not playing.

 

[SeeMeRolling]

No I understood completely what you were referring to in your post. Sensual domination is still domination. But I think people who are sensualists tend to be more Compassionate people and treat people respectfully when not playing.

Treating people respectfully “when not playing” should be a given. Dominant or nor, if someone doesn’t treat people respectfully they are just an ass. Personally I wouldn’t care how good of a “dominant” they are, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.

 

[SeeMeRolling]

Treating people respectfully “when not playing” should be a given. Dominant or nor, if someone doesn’t treat people respectfully they are just an ass. Personally I wouldn’t care how good of a “dominant” they are, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.

Say it louder for those in the back, please.

Of course ma’am.

 

[lady_jennaxx]

Treating people respectfully “when not playing” should be a given. Dominant or nor, if someone doesn’t treat people respectfully they are just an ass. Personally I wouldn’t care how good of a “dominant” they are, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.

I was raised to treat others respectfully, perjod. Now if they don't choose to do the same then that speaks to what they are lacking. Just my .02

 

[SeeMeRolling]

I was raised to treat others respectfully, perjod. Now if they don't choose to do the same then that speaks to what they are lacking. Just my .02

Yes... I am trying to learn how not to be an asshole back. It’s tough sometimes.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Treating people respectfully “when not playing” should be a given. Dominant or nor, if someone doesn’t treat people respectfully they are just an ass. Personally I wouldn’t care how good of a “dominant” they are, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.

I couldnt agree more... more so... the inability to treat people with respect... IMO clearly disqualifies such a person from being a good Dominant to begin with.

Even when I play with an s type... I am respectful...no matter what fetishes she may enjoy... I give her what she wants/ craves... I think thats respectful dont you?

 

[Primalex]

Even when I play with an s type... I am respectful...no matter what fetishes she may enjoy... I give her what she wants/ craves... I think thats respectful dont you?

I don't see a correlation between giving someone what (s)he wants and being respectful.

 

[Beachaged]

Treating people respectfully “when not playing” should be a given. Dominant or nor, if someone doesn’t treat people respectfully they are just an ass. Personally I wouldn’t care how good of a “dominant” they are, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.

I agree completely. But that wasn’t really the point I was trying to make. I think a sensual
Dominant has a more evolved and more heightened sense of sympathy, empathy and compassion than a strict dominant.

 

[SeeMeRolling]

I agree completely. But that wasn’t really the point I was trying to make. I think a sensual
Dominant has a more evolved and more heightened sense of sympathy, empathy and compassion than a strict dominant.

Yes. I can see that. I would resonate with and seek out a sensual dominant since I am an empathetic person myself.

 

[ultramarineblue]

My spouse hates when we go to a museum or gallery. I need to read every plaque, and ask all the questions.

I do that a lot but even more so I spend more time just looking at stuff.

Treating people respectfully “when not playing” should be a given. Dominant or nor, if someone doesn’t treat people respectfully they are just an ass. Personally I wouldn’t care how good of a “dominant” they are, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.

I would agree with that. My only thought is what about a 24/7 type relationship where play versus just living life might not be as clearly separated. I think it would be difficult to be harsh all the time unless someone is just inherently an asshole.

I was raised to treat others respectfully, perjod. Now if they don't choose to do the same then that speaks to what they are lacking. Just my .02

I'm the same way. I wish more were this way as well. This idea of having to earn respect is beyond me.

I don't see a correlation between giving someone what (s)he wants and being respectful.

Perhaps it may have been meant more as respecting the pyl's wishes?