"Liberals!"

[DesertPirate]

Liberals have better sex.

At least, FEMALE liberals have better sex.

Male conservatives probably never notice if their partners orgasm.

More of it since they are less picky
But quantity doesnt equal quality

 

[marybethsanford]

It's all about Time!

In my nearly six and a half decades I've had the great pleasure of seeing almost all of beliefs shattered and can happily say to you - wait! Wait and things will change and the really funny part is most of those changes will be you. So how does an American chose his party? Actually, it's fairly easy and for me it began shortly after my discharge in 1969 after serving 6 years in the Navy.

I mostly hated everything government. Right after my discharge, I started out on a Harley Davidson heading North till it got too cold, then South again. Hippies were at the other extreme end of that political spectrum I'd consorted with for so long which was only coincidental to their marijuana and free love. I would say politically, then, when I was sober enough to respond to the question, fell not too far from where a Marxist might hover.

When I did sober up, marry and began the struggle to own a home, start a family and finish school, I found I needed a great deal of help in a number of areas. I found myself looking at that very same government I once hated. Politically I had shifted slightly center and found myself suddenly a Democrat.

It wasn't that many years before I was in my third home with a substantial equity building, and well into my career that was paying me in stock options, bonuses and well enough not to care that gas and most everything else was getting higher. I hated taxes, that damn middle class I was forking over so much money for and thought Rush Limbaugh was one of God's adherents. There was no question I had become a Republican.

Time went on, Rush started using drugs, Fox News came into being, and suddenly I found myself coming up on retirement. Remarkably the edges around Republicans and Democrats have become very blured and neither party is worthy of my vote so it's not too surprising that the Libertarians are beginning to look pretty good right now.

What's next? Not sure but I do know for a fact that sooner or later something will change and most likely it's going to be me. Anyway, that's pretty much how the system works - Questions?

 

[amicus]

marybethsanford
Virgin

Welcome to the forum marybeth...anecdotalo life experiences along the way are fine and perhaps the means by which most form a philosophy of life, dunno...

But I suggest that a more sure method of choosing ones political associations might be to consider the roots of the parties, keeping in mind the human values that we pursue as individuals.

Democrats believe in the power of government to solve problems by taxation the rich or even the near rich to provide for those less fortunate.

Republicans believe in the individual, his right, liberties and freedoms as a solution to all problems save those actions constitutionally authoried.

Libertarians used to be to the right of Republicans, but women infected the group, they adopted abortion as a plank and since that time have had no audience or constituency.

Nothing is cut and dried in politics, all the parties meander here and there for several reasons, but aside from parties, the basic principles of human individual freedom should guide one in choosing whom to support...

toodles...

Amicus...

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

marybethsanford
Virgin

Welcome to the forum marybeth...anecdotalo life experiences along the way are fine and perhaps the means by which most form a philosophy of life, dunno...

But I suggest that a more sure method of choosing ones political associations might be to consider the roots of the parties, keeping in mind the human values that we pursue as individuals.

Democrats believe in the power of government to solve problems by taxation the rich or even the near rich to provide for those less fortunate.

Republicans believe in the individual, his right, liberties and freedoms as a solution to all problems save those actions constitutionally authoried.

Libertarians used to be to the right of Republicans, but women infected the group, they adopted abortion as a plank and since that time have had no audience or constituency.

Nothing is cut and dried in politics, all the parties meander here and there for several reasons, but aside from parties, the basic principles of human individual freedom should guide one in choosing whom to support...

toodles...

Amicus...

As you say, nothing is cut and dried in politics. You believe in individual rights and so do I but I believe those rights extend to the right to end an unwanted pregnancy. I also believe that gay and lesbian people have a right to swear lifelong loyalty to one another and form marriages if they want to and that those marriages should have benefit enjoyed by straight couples and every drawback.

I also believe that public education is necessary for the future of the nation but some changes should be made.

By the way, I'm not a liberal and I have GREAT sex.

 

[amicus]

SPA..great that you acknowledge individual rights but the term has a definition and a meaning and is not just a floating abstract without roots.

"... You believe in individual rights and so do I but I believe those rights extend to the right to end an unwanted pregnancy...."

It is not a matter of, 'belief', SPA, anyone can 'believe' in anything they wish. The right to life is an innate and self evident premise inherent in the individual. If you acknowledge that 'you' have the right to life, you must extend that to each individual on the same basis. You cannot deny a human being the right to life and still claim that life is a value.

Your second example of gay, lesbian, homosexual lifestyles....no one in society at large would give a second thought to this 'alternative' lifestyle if the adherents practiced in in private as heterosexuals do.

It is the activists within the gay community that have insisted on thrusting their life style upon the consciousness of others and demanding equality. In the court of the people this activist position is voted down again and again, yet the activists persist in forcing society to address their desires.

Your third example is public education. Aside from the fact that it was not authorized by the Constitution of the United States, and since we live by the rule of law, you have taken an indefensible position.

As a matter of philosophy and definition, one cannot use force in a free society to acquire ones desires. Yet that is precisely what public education is, the use of force, through taxation to impose an ideal you hold as valuable.

A rational person would dismiss your assertion that public education is necessary and advise you that if those are your thoughts, then by all means, educate yourself and your dependents if you are able.

But to use force to implement your 'necessity' is a violation of the innate freedom of an individual who has the right to 'choose' how he expends his efforts, energy and income.

Please notice that not a single 'belief' of mine was uttered.

Amicus...

 

[Dragonlipz]

Welcome MaryBethSanford,
Like yourself, I've hiked up the mountain and come down the other side. Thanks to the grace of God, I'm still whole and mostly sane - Despite the use of recreational drugs and some one on one in country: 515 River Division, Mekong Delta........I left the Navy in 75, singed but not burnt, ready to accept that I'd already faced the worst shit life had to offer. I admire George Patton, but there's no glory in war, it's a filthy, ugly business that celebrates that which is filthiest and ugliest about this species....
I've been through my changes and see the world through the lenses of experience and reality...I call 'em not like I see 'em, I call em like they is......I look forward to your threads and posts......
Ciao..........Lipz

 

[wmrs2]

Welcome dear marybethsanford. You make a great observation about life from the get go and it is a big topic here on the forum. You say: Wait and things will change and the really funny part is most of those changes will be you.

Life does not really change but it does change us. We are different now that we have lived the 65 years or so. The universal world of principle is still the same and the sooner all men adjust to the principles of creation, the world will then be perfect indeed.

 

[wmrs2]

Welcome MaryBethSanford,
Like yourself, I've hiked up the mountain and come down the other side. Thanks to the grace of God, I'm still whole and mostly sane - Despite the use of recreational drugs and some one on one in country: 515 River Division, Mekong Delta........I left the Navy in 75, singed but not burnt, ready to accept that I'd already faced the worst shit life had to offer. I admire George Patton, but there's no glory in war, it's a filthy, ugly business that celebrates that which is filthiest and ugliest about this species....
I've been through my changes and see the world through the lenses of experience and reality...I call 'em not like I see 'em, I call em like they is......I look forward to your threads and posts......
Ciao..........Lipz

You reveal a wonderful truth. You call things like they is Member this fact and it will protect you the rest of your life as you continue to discover reality that never changes.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

SPA..great that you acknowledge individual rights but the term has a definition and a meaning and is not just a floating abstract without roots.



It is not a matter of, 'belief', SPA, anyone can 'believe' in anything they wish. The right to life is an innate and self evident premise inherent in the individual. If you acknowledge that 'you' have the right to life, you must extend that to each individual on the same basis. You cannot deny a human being the right to life and still claim that life is a value.

Your second example of gay, lesbian, homosexual lifestyles....no one in society at large would give a second thought to this 'alternative' lifestyle if the adherents practiced in in private as heterosexuals do.

It is the activists within the gay community that have insisted on thrusting their life style upon the consciousness of others and demanding equality. In the court of the people this activist position is voted down again and again, yet the activists persist in forcing society to address their desires.

Your third example is public education. Aside from the fact that it was not authorized by the Constitution of the United States, and since we live by the rule of law, you have taken an indefensible position.

As a matter of philosophy and definition, one cannot use force in a free society to acquire ones desires. Yet that is precisely what public education is, the use of force, through taxation to impose an ideal you hold as valuable.

A rational person would dismiss your assertion that public education is necessary and advise you that if those are your thoughts, then by all means, educate yourself and your dependents if you are able.

But to use force to implement your 'necessity' is a violation of the innate freedom of an individual who has the right to 'choose' how he expends his efforts, energy and income.

Please notice that not a single 'belief' of mine was uttered.

Amicus...

No beliefs were uttered but some were certainly implied.

I agree that all humans have a right to life unless they have forfeited that right by committing heinous crimes and being convicted of those crimes and legally sentenced to death. We obviously disagree on the definition of "human life." I do not believe human life begins at conception. I do not believe a fertilized egg or a fetus is a person and I do believe that the host for such a non-human has a right to have that non-human removed if she wants to do so. The exact instant at when life begins is a sticking point that can probably never be resolved so the discussion is pointless since neither side will concede to the other.

As to gays and lesbians, they want to practice their lifestyles, especially the sexual aspects of them, in peace and privacy as any heterosexual does but they are often not allowed to do so. In many states they are not allowed to do this and are even arrested if they are suspected of any homosecual activity. Sometimes they are evn murdered or savagely beaten for being different.

More specifically they want the right to get married to each other as any hetero couple can do. They want the same rights as anybody else has and they will "thrust their lifestyles" on society at large in protest of the deprivation. If those rights are granted they will be accepted and there will be no more public exhibitions demanding them.

Education is hardly mentioned in the Constitution which means it is included in the Tenth Amendment as the province of state or local government. These lesser governments are very involved in public education and they usually will have laws describing what is to be done. Just because it is not specifically included among federal laws does not affect its legality There is nothing in the US Constitution banning gay marriage, you know. There is also nothing in the US Constitution banning jay-walking or overtime parking or most of the millions of other laws on state or local books.

I suppose you can call collecting taxes "using force." I hope you know if it were not for taxes no nation, including this one, could exist. I agree that some taxes should be repealed but not the ones that finance public education. If you believe it is not necessary, compare the literacy rate before the advent of free public education and now. It has its failings but it is still better than any alternative.

 

[amicus]

SPA...thank you for taking the time to explain your positions and defend them.

I could spend ten pages on each of the three positions you outlined to lead you, step by step, towards an understanding of what it means to approach a problem on a rational, objective basis in which one discards all belief and personal preferences.

I shall, however, address just one:

"...We obviously disagree on the definition of "human life." I do not believe human life begins at conception. I do not believe a fertilized egg or a fetus is a person and I do believe that the host for such a non-human has a right to have that non-human removed if she wants to do so. The exact instant at when life begins is a sticking point that can probably never be resolved so the discussion is pointless since neither side will concede to the other..."

You can 'believe' that the moon, each year, moves an inch and a half farther away from earth, or, you can, 'know' that as a fact.

You can 'believe' whatever you wish about when human life begins, or you can 'know.' I prefer to know, rather than believe, as I suggest all rational people do.

Medical science is a wonderful thing, doncha think? Science tells us that each girl baby, still in the womb, carries about 400, give or take, 'eggs' within her tiny body, each one carrying a complete genetic code of the mother/father and the entire ancestral history of her line, plus her own genetic additions to the DNA. I find that so amazing to be almost miraculously complex and complicated.

You know about the birds and bees of course, how those little eggs wait for hormonal changes and growth, before detaching, one at a time, (usually) and making that long, long journey towards an uncertain future.

In many cases all those little eggs will live and die, unfullfilled, for a variety of reasons.

But through a marvelous, natural occurence, their is a complimentary device that nature provides in great excess, them lil wiggly bastards called spermatazoa, also very complex and complicated, but produced in the billions, and still the miracle continues in that the entire genetic code is included in each one of the wiggly little rascals...such a deal, eh?

Then there is that thing the poets (I am one) write about, a silly little thing called....wait for it....mutual attraction, also kind of a miracle in the vastness of existence that complimentary parts seek each other out...great, eh?

There be a lot of posturing and coyness, alas, time consuming, painful perhaps and timing is of the essence in this creation dance that is the music of the universe, great stuff, eh?

Well...my little homily is coming to an end, but is really a prelude to a kiss, ah, naw, thas a song...a prologue, an overture...to the main event.

Now....destroy for me, with your practical definition, this long and winding road(song) to that critical moment when the earth moves and the whole becomes more than the sum of the parts.

Medical science will prove to you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that when sperm and egg meet, a new, totally unique, never been seen before in all of time, entity, human entity, human life, is created.

Thas a fact, Jack, hit the road, toad, game over, you lose.

What's next?



amicus...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Our county has to fire 1000 employees because the tax money is 100 MILLION less than needed to pay everyone. People are upset. The only jobs that pay decent money are guvmint jobs. The alarmists warn that fires will be ignored, libraries will close, buses wont run, etc.

But what I see with my own eyes is a bus service that costs $10 for every $1 it collects from passengers. The county hands out free bus passes like the Gideons hand out Bibles. The county fire service employs a squad of haystacks who do nothing but make swimming pool safety presentations; each of these ladies is a Captain and weighs about 300 pounds. Go wherever you want in the county, and the pothole crew always consists of 10 people: 2 flaggers, 2 peons with shovels, 1 driver, 3 assistant county administrators, and 2 field supervisers. The county staff has more assistant administrators than Tolstoy has counts & princes in one of his books.

Taxes make things possible, but what the Usual Suspects choose to ignore is, much of what government does isnt necessasry or beneficial or useful. Government confiscates your paycheck to make work for some perfumed prince or boondoggle.

 

[SweetPrettyAss]

SPA...thank you for taking the time to explain your positions and defend them.

I could spend ten pages on each of the three positions you outlined to lead you, step by step, towards an understanding of what it means to approach a problem on a rational, objective basis in which one discards all belief and personal preferences.

I shall, however, address just one:

You can 'believe' that the moon, each year, moves an inch and a half farther away from earth, or, you can, 'know' that as a fact.

You can 'believe' whatever you wish about when human life begins, or you can 'know.' I prefer to know, rather than believe, as I suggest all rational people do.

Medical science is a wonderful thing, doncha think? Science tells us that each girl baby, still in the womb, carries about 400, give or take, 'eggs' within her tiny body, each one carrying a complete genetic code of the mother/father and the entire ancestral history of her line, plus her own genetic additions to the DNA. I find that so amazing to be almost miraculously complex and complicated.

You know about the birds and bees of course, how those little eggs wait for hormonal changes and growth, before detaching, one at a time, (usually) and making that long, long journey towards an uncertain future.

In many cases all those little eggs will live and die, unfullfilled, for a variety of reasons.

But through a marvelous, natural occurence, their is a complimentary device that nature provides in great excess, them lil wiggly bastards called spermatazoa, also very complex and complicated, but produced in the billions, and still the miracle continues in that the entire genetic code is included in each one of the wiggly little rascals...such a deal, eh?

Then there is that thing the poets (I am one) write about, a silly little thing called....wait for it....mutual attraction, also kind of a miracle in the vastness of existence that complimentary parts seek each other out...great, eh?

There be a lot of posturing and coyness, alas, time consuming, painful perhaps and timing is of the essence in this creation dance that is the music of the universe, great stuff, eh?

Well...my little homily is coming to an end, but is really a prelude to a kiss, ah, naw, thas a song...a prologue, an overture...to the main event.

Now....destroy for me, with your practical definition, this long and winding road(song) to that critical moment when the earth moves and the whole becomes more than the sum of the parts.

Medical science will prove to you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that when sperm and egg meet, a new, totally unique, never been seen before in all of time, entity, human entity, human life, is created.

Thas a fact, Jack, hit the road, toad, game over, you lose.

What's next?



amicus...

I am familiar with the birds and the bees. I also know that sometimers a male and female fuck and she gets knocked up when one of his sperm fertilizes one (usually) of her eggs. At that point, a form of life begins. So far we are in agreeement.

Where we disagree is what form of life that is. You say it is human and I say it is not, although there is the potential for it to become human. Maybe it happens at the time of birth or maybe it happens sooner. I don't know when that happens and neither do you even if you say it happens at conception.

I also know that when a man ejaculates there is a multitude of of lives lost because most of those sperm that concern you so much never fertilize an egg. There lives are wasted. Does that mean you oppose masturbation by men or condoms or spermicides? When women masturbate, no lives are lost and only one egg dies when she begins her menses.

 

[amicus]

"...Where we disagree is what form of life that is. You say it is human and I say it is not, although there is the potential for it to become human..."

~~~

Well....SPA, you went from "I believe", to "I say", not much change but still a change. Meanwhile I have never said, "I believe or I say", Science did that, I merely related it to you.

If life begins at conception, as science says, but you are in doubt as to just what kind of life....ahm....what do you then 'say' it might be? Animal, vegetable or mineral?

And 'potential' might apply to the egg and sperm, but nothing else.

Amicus...

 

[Liar]

Well....SPA, you went from "I believe", to "I say", not much change but still a change. Meanwhile I have never said, "I believe or I say", Science did that, I merely related it to you.

If life begins at conception, as science says, but you are in doubt as to just what kind of life....ahm....what do you then 'say' it might be? Animal, vegetable or mineral?

And 'potential' might apply to the egg and sperm, but nothing else.

In your opinion.

I do believe we've had this discussion ad nauseum.

Scientifically speaking, the only definitive thing that happens at conception, is the merge of two sets of genes into one new set. That's one of several definitive things that needs to happen for a new individual to come to life. it's one that's fairly simple to understand, so many people latch on to it emotionally, and calls it "the beginning". But that's irrational and emotional, not scientific.

It isn't "life begins". It's existing life (the egg) that is subected to an external catalysator (the sperm), mutates and continues.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Fortunately, most of the abortions kill the spawn of good, Democrat girls.

 

[jomar]

So how does an American chose his party? Actually, it's fairly easy and for me it began shortly after my discharge in 1969 after serving 6 years in the Navy...Right after my discharge, I started out on a Harley Davidson...When I did sober up, marry and began the struggle to own a home, start a family and finish school, I found I needed a great deal of help in a number of areas. I found myself looking at that very same government I once hated. Politically I had shifted slightly center and found myself suddenly a Democrat. It wasn't that many years before...I had become a Republican.

As has been said, "Anyone who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and anyone who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."

 

[sr71plt]

As has been said, "Anyone who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and anyone who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."

Of course, anyone who is 60 and wealthy doesn't give a rat's ass what labels others apply to them.

 

[amicus]

Liar:

"...It isn't "life begins". It's existing life (the egg) that is subected to an external catalysator (the sperm), mutates and continues..."

~~~

You go to such extraordinary lengths to reject science, reason, rationality and integrity...just what horse do you have in this race?

Neither the egg nor the sperm are, 'life', but when they get together, something fantastic happens, LIFE! Human life. It ain't gonna turn out to be a toad...

amicus...

 

[Liar]

Liar:

~~~

You go to such extraordinary lengths to reject science, reason, rationality and integrity...just what horse do you have in this race?

Logic, reason, rationality and science. I like them, and it annoys me that you use their names in illogic, unreasonable, irrational and unscientific ways.

Neither the egg nor the sperm are, 'life'

They're dead?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

As a larval man I was infected with lateral thinking, plus I'm right brained, so I'm not invested in logical processes, I'm interested in results.

 

[amicus]

Logic, reason, rationality and science. I like them, and it annoys me that you use their names in illogic, unreasonable, irrational and unscientific ways.
They're dead?

~~~

A sperm, from the ancient Greek word σπέρμα (seed) and ζῷον (living being) and more commonly known as a sperm cell, is the haploid cell that is the male gamete. It joins an ovum to form a zygote. A zygote is a single cell, with a complete set of chromosomes, that normally develops into an embryo.

As I said before, Liar, you go to extraordinary lengths to dispute science with trivial objections. I have about 30 packets of garden 'seeds', awaiting the arrival of spring so I can fertilize them, place them in a suitable environment and wait for them to spring to LIFE.

Again, since it is not a matter of scientific dispute that life begins at conception, what is your special interest? Are you a female who had an abortiion and are compelled to defend your action?

Methinks thou doth protest too much...

ami

edited to add: If one of those cabbage seeds turns out to be a little girl, or a cabbage patch doll, you will be the first to be informed. (heh)

 

[Liar]

As I said before, Liar, you go to extraordinary lengths to dispute science with trivial objections.

Just because you say it, doesn't mean it's so. I dispute your trivial nonsense with scientific objections. You are either ignorant or dishonest when you say that "it is not a matter of scientific dispute that life begins at conception". Truth is, it is not even a matter of scientific concern.

*sigh*

I don't know why I even bother. Go live in your world of unfactual simplicity. Delight in childish definitions that has no metit other than philosophical. Thankfully you are in no position to base much policy for the rest of us on it. See Spot Run.

 

[sr71plt]

You are either ignorant or dishonest . . .

Ah, come on. I think Amicus is perfectly capable of being both--at the same time.

I'm waiting for him to say that Thomas Jefferson invented sperm.

 

[amicus]

Liar:

"...". Truth is, it is not even a matter of scientific concern..."

~~~

You reject faith as an answer to the sanctity of life and now it is not a matter of scienific concern? Just what the hell do you use to make a moral or ethical decision? Ouija Board?



Amicus...

 

[Liar]

I'm waiting for him to say that Thomas Jefferson invented sperm.

I'm fairly certain he produced it.