Looking at the US gun law debate another way...

[Ldy_Sea]

Toronto which just recently overtook Chicago as the 4th largest city in NA had 23 murders total last year.

More Like 56 see details below.

Canada with a population of 35 millions has on average 500 murders total.

516 in 2014, can't find 2015 numbers.

California with 35 million had 1600. Which is down substantially from the 2500 in 2005.

couldn't find anything with Californias 2015 murder rate, but in 2014 it was 4.4 per 100K, and had a population of 38.8 million. Simple math tells us that 1772 people were murdered in 2014.

Maybe the strict gun laws that Cali keeps trying to enact are working.

Working for who? 72% of murders are by guns, 33% is gang related, and police are involved in 90% of self defense shootings. Why aren't law abiding citizens allowed to defend themselves, only Police?

TORONTO
There were 56 homicide victims in Toronto in 2015, a small dip from 57 in both 2013 and 2014, and well below the tallies seen within the last decade of 70 or 80 slayings in a single year
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...own-in-2015-amid-rise-in-fatal-stabbings.html

Chicago Population 2.719 million in 2013The year-end crime statistics showed there were 468 murders in Chicago in 2015 compared with 416 the year before, a 12.5% increase, as well as 2,900 shootings—13% more than the year prior, and up 29% since 2013. Chicago had more homicides than any other city in 2015, according to the Chicago Tribune.Jan 2, 2016
http://time.com/4165576/chicago-murders-shootings-rise-2015/

How are those gun restrictions working for Chicago?

TO Compare cities instead of city to state. I will use LA which is in California.

LA County Population 10million
649 people were killed in LA in 2015 70% with guns.
http://homicide.latimes.com/year/2015
With the city experiencing its first crime surge in more than a decade, homicides countywide are on pace with last year
http://homicide.latimes.com/post/homicide-numbers-first-half-2015/

So LA has increasing crime, most murders are with guns. But the gun restrictions are working? Seems Legit.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Then let's give out guns to gang members so that they can defend themselves from the other gang members causing all the shootings.

Because it's illegal fro anyone engaged in a criminal enterprise to have a gun. But then criminals don't obey laws, otherwise we woldn't have murders, or drug sales, or prisons.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Words have meaning.

You said "founded to defend gun rights" which is not true. Just because you later added (when I called you on it) "oh yeah, they also promoted marksmanship" doesn't make your original statement any less false.

If you go to the gun store to buy a magazine for your pistol and while there decide to buy a pair of ear plugs would you tell a friend "I went to the gun store to buy some ear plugs"?

Just admit you don't know what you're talking about. Like your denial that the NRA was at the forefront of passing restrictive gun laws for decades, in fact for almost a century.

OH MY GOD!

Okay one more time.

The NRA was formed to improve marksmanship and to defend the rights of Blacks and Native Americans to own guns. This is why it's called the OLDEST CONTINIOUS RUNNING CIVIL RIGHTS GROUP IN THE US. Teaching marksmanship is not a civil right.

You keep saying they supported anti gun laws and when asked for a reference you named a magazine published by the NRA, without an issue number or date or anyway to research your claim. Back it up with facts.

How about a definitive source? A link? Something to prove your claim? I already proved you wrong about not teaching marksmanship. Now prove me wrong, if you can.

 

[dan_c00000]

Because it's illegal fro anyone engaged in a criminal enterprise to have a gun. But then criminals don't obey laws, otherwise we woldn't have murders, or drug sales, or prisons.

By your own standards you wouldn't be able to play with yourself.

Also, I think you're unfamiliar with sarcasm.

 

[phrodeau]

Because it's illegal fro anyone engaged in a criminal enterprise to have a gun. But then criminals don't obey laws, otherwise we woldn't have murders, or drug sales, or prisons.

If you really want to reduce gang-on-gang violence, you need to make sure that all the gang members have guns so that they can defend themselves and reduce the number of murders and injuries from guns.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

By your own standards you wouldn't be able to play with yourself.

Also, I think you're unfamiliar with sarcasm.

Where in my standards do I mention typos or require perfect spelling?

Sarcasm is indicated by the tone of voice, how is that conveyed in writing?

 

[phrodeau]

Ri-ight, it is sooooo hard to convey sarcasm with text.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

First time poster tells me I missed sarcasm. I was asking him where the sarcasm was since there was none indicated anywhere in the discussion. I dodn't say it couldn't be indicated in writing, I asked him how it was.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Many sociopaths and psychopaths have a hard time recognizing sarcasm and other subtle emotions not openly displayed on facial expressions and such.

A sarcasm emoticon would be good though.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Many sociopaths and psychopaths have a hard time recognizing sarcasm and other subtle emotions not openly displayed on facial expressions and such.

A sarcasm emoticon would be good though.

Or a font, or text effect. something...

 

[dan_c00000]

First time poster tells me I missed sarcasm. I was asking him where the sarcasm was since there was none indicated anywhere in the discussion. I dodn't say it couldn't be indicated in writing, I asked him how it was.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/10/Disappointed-Terrible-Awful-OMG-Embarassed-Embarassing-WTF-GIF.gif?gs=a

 

[about_average]

OH MY GOD!

Oh my god is right, why do you keep denying you posted that the NRA was founded to defend gun rights?
Again, That's BS.

https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/
Seven paragraphs about the founding of the NRA before 2nd amendment rights are even mentioned, much less any other civil rights.

Are you really such a knee jerk reactionary that you believe that if they were founded to defend gun rights, like you claim it wouldn't be in the fist paragraph?

The NRA was formed to improve marksmanship and to defend the rights of Blacks and Native Americans to own guns. This is why it's called the OLDEST CONTINIOUS RUNNING CIVIL RIGHTS GROUP IN THE US. Teaching marksmanship is not a civil right.

Who said it was? Or is that just another weak attempt at diversion on your part?

You keep saying they supported anti gun laws and when asked for a reference you named a magazine published by the NRA, without an issue number or date or anyway to research your claim. Back it up with facts.

How about a definitive source? A link? Something to prove your claim?

"The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. … NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts."

"The NRA supported the original ’Dodd Bill’ to amend the Federal Firearms Act in regard to handguns when it was introduced as S.1975 in August, 1963. Among its provisions was the requirement that a purchaser submit a notarized statement to the shipper that he was over 18 and not legally disqualified from possessing a handgun."

"In January, 1965, with the continued support of the NRA, Senator Dodd introduced an amended version of his first bill, now designated 5.14 and expanded to cover rifles and shotguns as well as handguns."
—American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22

Of course, I'm sure you'll deny they ever said that.

I already proved you wrong about not teaching marksmanship.

Except I never said they didn't teach marksmanship, despite your lies otherwise.

But I'll humor you. To prove you wrong about that too, what I said was

Marksmanship is a very minor part of their activities these days.

I often get mail solicitations from the NRA, a minuscule amount of it has anything to do with anything other that "gun rights"
Even going to their web site there is nothing about marksmanship. Of the seven prominent links displayed none are about marksmanship and three are about gun rights

Which is 100% true.

Which one of these mentions marksmanship?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

oh dan, you are one of those welfare lovers. maybe some day, hopefully, you will become a man and get off welfare. but welfare and crack are addictive

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/10/Disappointed-Terrible-Awful-OMG-Embarassed-Embarassing-WTF-GIF.gif?gs=a

 

[dan_c00000]

oh dan, you are one of those welfare lovers. maybe some day, hopefully, you will become a man and get off welfare. but welfare and crack are addictive

Are you still pretending to be a girl on the internet or did you give up on that once you couldn't give away your shitty e-books?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Are you still pretending to be a girl on the internet or did you give up on that once you couldn't give away your shitty e-books?

get a job and get your fucking lazy ass off welfare you retard

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

get a job and get your fucking lazy ass off welfare you retard

Get your retarded ass (unless it's smarter than the rest of you) off of the fence-post, & stop telling everyone it's your girlfriend just b/c it doesn't charge you.

Also, just noticing a million uses in the thread of "fro"... It's "for", geniuses!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Oh great now 3rd wave victimism is politicizing it too. LOL

What is this "3rd wave victimism"?

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

What is this "3rd wave victimism"?

Botany's creation.... Like NeverEnding, likes to claim false things, etc. to appear our mental equal. In this case, has realized fails to understand some things as well as we do in order to discuss them with us, so creates & mentions their own to show us how they feel.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Oh my god is right, why do you keep denying you posted that the NRA was founded to defend gun rights?
Again, That's BS.

While African Americans were being terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan, where the Klan were sometimes aided by local law enforcement, the NRA setup charters to help train local African American communities to be able protect themselves.

How the NRA helped fight the Klan

Wrong again.

https://home.nra.org/about-the-nra/
Seven paragraphs about the founding of the NRA before 2nd amendment rights are even mentioned, much less any other civil rights.

It's called writing. They start off taliking about ranges then they go on to other matters the NRA was involved in from that source...

Through the association's magazine, The American Rifleman, members were kept abreast of new firearms bills,

So they published a magazine that included info about gun laws.

Are you really such a knee jerk reactionary that you believe that if they were founded to defend gun rights, like you claim it wouldn't be in the fist paragraph?

So everything that's important should be in the first paragraph. Guess that means the Bill of Rights isn't omportant in your opinion because it's not in the first paragraph of the Constitution.

"The NRA supported The National Firearms Act of 1934 which taxes and requires registration of such firearms as machine guns, sawed-off rifles and sawed-off shotguns. … NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts."

ONe source that shows the NRA supports any anti gun bill.

"The NRA supported the original ’Dodd Bill’ to amend the Federal Firearms Act in regard to handguns when it was introduced as S.1975 in August, 1963. Among its provisions was the requirement that a purchaser submit a notarized statement to the shipper that he was over 18 and not legally disqualified from possessing a handgun."

In other words teh NRA agreed that people should obey the law and show they were old eniugh to legally buy a gun. Oh the Horrors.

"In January, 1965, with the continued support of the NRA, Senator Dodd introduced an amended version of his first bill, now designated 5.14 and expanded to cover rifles and shotguns as well as handguns."
—American Rifleman, March 1968, P. 22

Of course, I'm sure you'll deny they ever said that.

Except I never said they didn't teach marksmanship, despite your lies otherwise.

But I'll humor you. To prove you wrong about that too, what I said wasWhich is 100% true.

Which one of these mentions marksmanship?

[/QUOTE]

SO ifi t's not a big picture on the home page it doesn't exist. I guess I can't but screws at Home depot because there's none on their homepage.

Again it takes two clicks and 5 seconds to get to information about marksmanship training. Really hidden deep.

Oh and if anti gun laws are passed no one will need to learn to shoot, so first defend the right, then exercise it. Or are you too dense to understand law abiding citizens can't teach something if it's made illegal?

 

[about_average]

While African Americans were being terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan, where the Klan were sometimes aided by local law enforcement, the NRA setup charters to help train local African American communities to be able protect themselves.

At least until 1967 when they supported passage of the Mulford Act (which restricted everyone's rights) because too many blacks were carrying in their communities.

How the NRA helped fight the Klan

Wrong again.

LMAO
You should probably read things you link to. The link you posted backs up what I said and is a second source that proves you were wrong when you said

OH MY GOD! A group that was formed (1871) before airplanes existed, to defend gun rights, defends gun rights, and doesn't have anything to do with airplanes.

It's called writing. They start off taliking about ranges then they go on to other matters the NRA was involved in from that source...

Actually they started off talking about why the NRA was founded.
You should take some classes in expository writing, you obviously don't know how it works. Or maybe just work on your reading comprehension skills

So they published a magazine that included info about gun laws.

About supporting more restrictive gun laws, exactly like I said and that you denied.

So everything that's important should be in the first paragraph. Guess that means the Bill of Rights isn't omportant in your opinion because it's not in the first paragraph of the Constitution.

By your way of thinking it would be accurate to say,
"The Constitution was written to prevent soldiers from being quartered in houses without the owner's consent."

ONe source that shows the NRA supports any anti gun bill.

Actually we have two sources now, the NRA, and the page you linked to, both confirming what I said, that the NRA historically supported more restrictive gun laws.

In other words teh NRA agreed that people should obey the law and show they were old eniugh to legally buy a gun. Oh the Horrors.

It's telling that you completely ignore the fact that the NRA worked to help pass NEW laws restricting ownership of some guns in 1934 and NEW laws restricting sales to anyone in 1968. Of course they are going say people should obey the laws they helped to get passed.
In any case, who said it was "horrors" (other than the current NRA)? I said they historically supported more restrictive gun laws, you denied it. Own it.

SO ifi t's not a big picture on the home page it doesn't exist. I guess I can't but screws at Home depot because there's none on their homepage.

Again it takes two clicks and 5 seconds to get to information about marksmanship training. Really hidden deep.

If it was a primary mission yes, it would be, just like any other organization or company that has a primary product.
You're the one who brought up cars, show me a new car dealer or car manufacturer web site that doesn't have cars on their home page, even though they also sell parts and service.

Oh and if anti gun laws are passed no one will need to learn to shoot, so first defend the right, then exercise it. Or are you too dense to understand law abiding citizens can't teach something if it's made illegal?

Still trying to pretend I said they don't teach marksmanship I see. Why are you so fixated on lying about what others say?
Are you trying to convince yourself, or others, that I said something I never said?
Is this how you behave(d) in public office?

To sum up:

• You said the NRA was founded to defend gun rights. That's been proven to not be true, both by the NRA, and your source.
• I said there's nothing on the NRA's home page about marksmanship. That's been proven true by your own admission.
• I said the NRA has historically supported more restrictive gun laws. That's been proven to be true by both the NRA and your source.

You should take your posts over to the stories section, it's more appropriate for it to be with the other fiction.

 

[dan_c00000]

While African Americans were being terrorized by the Ku Klux Klan, where the Klan were sometimes aided by local law enforcement, the NRA setup charters to help train local African American communities to be able protect themselves.

How the NRA helped fight the Klan

Far be it from me to doubt the respected historian Jack Lee but he's flat out wrong.

1. PolicyMic.com: A January 2013 article on PolicyMic.com, which describes itself as a platform to "engage millennials in debates about real issues," notes that the NRA founders started the group because of the Union soldiers’ poor marksmanship and it calls the NRA the oldest civil rights organization in the United States.

No mention of religious leaders founding the NRA to protect freed slaves from the KKK.

In case you're too afraid to look at the link it rated your information as "pants on fire" false.

Did botany boy put you up to this? I remember he used to love jerking off to guns even though he'd never touched one let alone owned one.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Dan, clearly you are on welfare and one step away from a becoming a career criminal. I bet you have family members currently serving time (in prison and not in the military). Who will protect oneself from you and your kind?

clearly Americans need to be armed to protect oneself and their family from the likes of you.

you were a little too close to the obama sun and experienced head trauma. now you are one of the mentally damaged kind

Far be it from me to doubt the respected historian Jack Lee but he's flat out wrong.

1. PolicyMic.com: A January 2013 article on PolicyMic.com, which describes itself as a platform to "engage millennials in debates about real issues," notes that the NRA founders started the group because of the Union soldiers’ poor marksmanship and it calls the NRA the oldest civil rights organization in the United States.

No mention of religious leaders founding the NRA to protect freed slaves from the KKK.

In case you're too afraid to look at the link it rated your information as "pants on fire" false.

Did botany boy put you up to this? I remember he used to love jerking off to guns even though he'd never touched one let alone owned one.

 

[BotanyBoy]

What is this "3rd wave victimism"?

That's what I call 3rd wave 'feminism', as it is the more honest term.

Notice they didn't mention the millions of female gun owners out there going through all that shit.

OP is a really bad, overtly sexist comparison in an effort to point out what victims women who chose to live in hyper conservative states that don't like abortion are.

As if any of it has a fucking thing to do with the topic of gun laws in the US or their reform.

It's a "poor women suffer because men are bad" comment dressed up as an attempt at discussion.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

ugh, the obama slaves have run out of the juice... so sad!

 

[L1tTleD1fferent]

ugh, the obama slaves have run out of the juice... so sad!

"You can't miss something that you never had".... - Song Lyric

“Out of all the things I have lost, I miss my mind the most.”

― Mark Twain credited with saying this, but we know NEM will never be able to (unless it's one of the million lies they post here).