midwestyankee
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Damn, why did I give my hip boots away at the last rummage sale? They would have come in handy here.
Love is unethical
- Thread starter Primalex
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neci
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you gave away your hip boots?!
how sad.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_5KRkPwrPfAA/SmsJl7aKSOI/AAAAAAAAB5c/LPAhCq46qt0/s320/booty_man.jpg
Netzach
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I just showed up for that pic.
Ethics? Unethics?
What you do with your response matters, but most of us are not superhumans and this is one motherfucker of a turbulent emotion. You're probably going to emerge a villain a percentage of the time if you're actually feeling it.
I'm fine with that. Love has inspired me to some mighty fine heights and mighty despicable lows and I'm OK with those.
Ethics? Unethics?
What you do with your response matters, but most of us are not superhumans and this is one motherfucker of a turbulent emotion. You're probably going to emerge a villain a percentage of the time if you're actually feeling it.
I'm fine with that. Love has inspired me to some mighty fine heights and mighty despicable lows and I'm OK with those.
Keroin
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Ditto and ditto.
midwestyankee
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You promised you wouldn't share this with the world. I'm crushed that you broke my trust.
Primalex
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Why ?
Primalex
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Love is not required for this.
Family tradition
Money
Personal justice
Adrenaline rush
Oh, wait, this was True Love:
http://laist.com/2007/09/18/oc_deputies_tas.php
Of, course True Love:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/cops-taser-drowned-dads-distraught-son.html
True Love for all:
http://www.infowars.net/articles/november2008/261108taser.htm
True Love:
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/14147512/detail.html
True Love is responsible for all this!
Soldiers know True Love, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse
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neci
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You promised you wouldn't share this with the world. I'm crushed that you broke my trust.
keep up the whining, and i'm posting the full frontal.
midwestyankee
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neci
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BLoved
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As this was the only on-topic post for this page I assume the thread has been hi-jacked and those interested in the topic have moved on to other things.
Thank you for the opportunity to share my point of view with those who were/are genuinely curious about love.
midwestyankee
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00Syd
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'xactly.
BLoved
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00Syd
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~smile~
midwestyankee
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It's time for a serious contribution. This comes from a post I wrote about five or six years ago in a Playground thread on love that I had started:
First, I believe very strongly that there is a fundamental difference between the state of "falling in love" and the state you are in when you are in a long-term loving relationship. That iniitial state you enter when you first discover someone, it seems to me, is rather self-centered. It is mostly about how we feel when we are in the presence of our new beloved or when we conjure up the beloved with our imagination. We may want the other to be happy, but the state is mostly about ourselves and our own feelings. We feel as if the world turns around the beloved and that the beloved can do no wrong. We overlook faults and overvalue strengths. The beloved is our knight in shining armor or the princess in the tower.
That initial state is necessary because loving requires a profound commitment. I think that if we really noticed all our beloved's faults early on, we might never choose to commit to anyone. At the same time, it can't last forever. This state is a fire that burns quickly; its fuel is finite. When we truly commit ourselves to another, this initial state gives way to a deeper one.
In this deeper state, we commit ourselves to the long-term emotional and spiritual growth of our beloved. In this state, we act out our love through daily actions of support and caring. While we still feel that our beloved is at the center of our world, our feelings are much more directed toward the beloved and less about ourselves.
We use the same words to describe both states most of the time, which leads to some confusion. We say we "love someone" from the very beginning. But initially that love is a set of feelings and only eventually does it grow to become a life of loving actions. We say we "are in love" with someone from the very beginning. At first, being in love means the feelings we hold. Over time, the phrase "in love" becomes shorthand for "I live my life in a loving way with someone."
Love is entirely ethical insofar as love is expressed truly. That the state of falling in love leaves us vulnerable to deep hurt is not the fault of love.
First, I believe very strongly that there is a fundamental difference between the state of "falling in love" and the state you are in when you are in a long-term loving relationship. That iniitial state you enter when you first discover someone, it seems to me, is rather self-centered. It is mostly about how we feel when we are in the presence of our new beloved or when we conjure up the beloved with our imagination. We may want the other to be happy, but the state is mostly about ourselves and our own feelings. We feel as if the world turns around the beloved and that the beloved can do no wrong. We overlook faults and overvalue strengths. The beloved is our knight in shining armor or the princess in the tower.
That initial state is necessary because loving requires a profound commitment. I think that if we really noticed all our beloved's faults early on, we might never choose to commit to anyone. At the same time, it can't last forever. This state is a fire that burns quickly; its fuel is finite. When we truly commit ourselves to another, this initial state gives way to a deeper one.
In this deeper state, we commit ourselves to the long-term emotional and spiritual growth of our beloved. In this state, we act out our love through daily actions of support and caring. While we still feel that our beloved is at the center of our world, our feelings are much more directed toward the beloved and less about ourselves.
We use the same words to describe both states most of the time, which leads to some confusion. We say we "love someone" from the very beginning. But initially that love is a set of feelings and only eventually does it grow to become a life of loving actions. We say we "are in love" with someone from the very beginning. At first, being in love means the feelings we hold. Over time, the phrase "in love" becomes shorthand for "I live my life in a loving way with someone."
Love is entirely ethical insofar as love is expressed truly. That the state of falling in love leaves us vulnerable to deep hurt is not the fault of love.
neci
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midwestyankee
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Primalex
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Emotions can't be classified as good or bad or right or wrong?
00Syd
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I don't think so.
Judging emotions as good or bad is un-necessary. What is important, is what and how you choose to act on any emotion.
In addition, you may choose to examine an emotion and find out that you have a thought distortion regarding how that emotion came to be.
Typically, people believe that there is an event that triggers an emotion. However there is an important piece of the equation missing here. It looks more like this:
1. Event
2. Belief about an event, person, self...
3. Emotion
One can then go on to
4. Dispute the belief
5. Examine and adopt new beliefs
6. Adopt plans for future similar events to continue to evolve the belief and change the emotion.
Usually, the problem lies for people a stage 2., which they may have a mis-understanding of the event or a thought distortion. Here is a good link which they refer to them as cognitive distortions.
So when you look at your emotions with your rational mind, you actual have choice and the ability to choose how you feel. It really is up to the individual to do the work to see if emotion is founded and justified. Even so, we still have the ability to choose how we act on our emotions.
Good luck!
eastern sun
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~smile~
I challenge them to argue their ethics and they respond with character assasination.
And if they are capable of this in public, what more are they capable of in private where there are no witnesses?
I've been on this journey for 40 years, and I'm looking forward to where my path takes me over the next 40.
Who knows what I will learn next.
Bloved, my husband is asking "why are you so insistent on bringing out the worst in others?"
Primalex
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The question is not if it's unnecessary, but whether it is impossible or not.
I disagree with this. This would imply I could choose to be gay or to be not gay. Or that I could decide that I do not love someone, because the reason for love is unfounded or wrong. If this would be the case, we would have much less women stuck in abusive relationships.
I disagree with this, too. The concept of free will on this level is already shaky.
Bring some person into a situation and record how the person acts.
Then do a time warp.
Repeat.
Will there be any different result if you repeat it 100000 times? At least all persons I know assume that the very same thing will happen, if nobody else modifies anything. But then there is no free will on this level for the person. The free will is a meager explanation for the fact that we can't predetermine a behaviour in a given situation. But this lack of predetermination does not come from the fact that the person really could choose between alternatives, this lack of predetermination just comes from the fact that we don't know enough about the person to decide how (s)he will act.
FurryFury
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Love is not consensual. You don't agree to love. You can't stop it.
Yes, I can stop it. Yes, I do agree to love. If it's not consensual I go elsewhere.
Love is not mutual in most cases. If you love someone, you are not guaranteed to be loved in return.
That's when you pick yourself up and go elsewhere.
Love can die, again without your consent. You can't bind it with a contract or other means.
It dies if you don't nurture it. If you are loyal and take care of that love it doesn't have to die ever.
Love is not fair. You can't prevent to fall in love with someone, therefore you can't prevent to fall in love with someone else.
Love isn't this thing you just unknowingly fall into. Not unless you want to be all Jerry Springer and shit. It's something you feel and feed if it seems like a good situation. Your heart in involved but if you are wise, your head (the one on your shoulders) if also involved.
Love is neither safe nor sane. Love makes you do very stupid things. It can even get you killed, either as lover or loved.
Love that is not safe or sane is love you should opt out of. I've been there in unhealthy love. Somehow I got out. Yay!
Love does not serve any purpose.
I disagree. It makes life infinitely sweeter and more worthwhile when it's healthy.
If you spend time with a person that loves you, you are not better than a guy who slips a date rape drug into a drink. The consent is fake. It's not based upon rational thoughts.
I completely disagree with this. Love is not some drug that takes away free will.
Love is not a chubby cherubim with a bow. Love is a predator. It does not take your wishes into account. You can't argue with it. You can't bribe it. You can't control it. Love does, what Love pleases.
Wrong again, I can control it. I can and I have. Whiners often don't however.
This all leads to the only inevitable conclusion:
Love is unethical.
Depends on how it's used.
Yes, I can stop it. Yes, I do agree to love. If it's not consensual I go elsewhere.
Love is not mutual in most cases. If you love someone, you are not guaranteed to be loved in return.
That's when you pick yourself up and go elsewhere.
Love can die, again without your consent. You can't bind it with a contract or other means.
It dies if you don't nurture it. If you are loyal and take care of that love it doesn't have to die ever.
Love is not fair. You can't prevent to fall in love with someone, therefore you can't prevent to fall in love with someone else.
Love isn't this thing you just unknowingly fall into. Not unless you want to be all Jerry Springer and shit. It's something you feel and feed if it seems like a good situation. Your heart in involved but if you are wise, your head (the one on your shoulders) if also involved.
Love is neither safe nor sane. Love makes you do very stupid things. It can even get you killed, either as lover or loved.
Love that is not safe or sane is love you should opt out of. I've been there in unhealthy love. Somehow I got out. Yay!
Love does not serve any purpose.
I disagree. It makes life infinitely sweeter and more worthwhile when it's healthy.
If you spend time with a person that loves you, you are not better than a guy who slips a date rape drug into a drink. The consent is fake. It's not based upon rational thoughts.
I completely disagree with this. Love is not some drug that takes away free will.
Love is not a chubby cherubim with a bow. Love is a predator. It does not take your wishes into account. You can't argue with it. You can't bribe it. You can't control it. Love does, what Love pleases.
Wrong again, I can control it. I can and I have. Whiners often don't however.
This all leads to the only inevitable conclusion:
Love is unethical.
Depends on how it's used.
