Men, emotions and mental health

[EmilyMiller]

How this thread sounds to me

Which one is me, hun?

Em

 

[stickygirl]

Which one is me, hun?

Em

The clever point of that video is that we recognise each character. Perhaps we're all, at times, guilty of being insincere, boorish or cowardly?

 

[Seadog777]

Boys are taught since birth and it continues to be pounded into our brains, that we are not allowed or permitted to show emotions.

Hurt, anger, sadness, etc.

A significant portion of women push this narrative too, so it can't all be placed on "father's, uncles, grandfather's, etc"

We are told that we are only permitted to work, pay taxes, sacrifice our welfare and lives for others, kill bugs, and die.

It's why we stroke out and drop dead at fucking 50 years old, eat a bullet, completely lose it and go crazy on everyone, etc, etc.

Thankfully (one of the very few good things about society today), is that that narrative is changing. Men are able to get help but it's not as widespread or accepted as it should be.

There are no shame with tears. If God didn't want us to cry, we wouldn't tear ducts.

Some of you think that what I said is poppycock (silly word of the day). But think back to your past. Everyone has seen and heard a man being put down for showing emotion. Seen a man; made fun of, and even shunned by his family. You still see it today in real life, on TV, on social media, etc.

We cry in the shower. We cry at the bar. We cry when everyone is gone from the house.

"The Golden Rule" is the #1 rule in life for a reason. People need to start remembering and taking that to heart.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Boys are taught since birth and it continues to be pounded into our brains, that we are not allowed or permitted to show emotions.

Hurt, anger, sadness, etc.

A significant portion of women push this narrative too, so it can't all be placed on "father's, uncles, grandfather's, etc"

We are told that we are only permitted to work, pay taxes, sacrifice our welfare and lives for others, kill bugs, and die.

Well I've got a thirty-two year old son, and I'm going to call bullshit on that.

You're on a different planet to me, that's for sure.

 

[stickygirl]

Yup yup... I made a post earlier and deleted it because it sounded like I was having a pop at the OP, which I'm not.

"Guys should be able to express their emotions ...

• but some women won't fancy them ( does everything in life revolve around getting laid? )
• they might look gay ( homophobic much? )
• we were told to be this way as kids ( so how old are you know? )
• I'd look like a girly-man ( that's sexist - there are strong women )

The way some guys talk you'd think they had no choices: they consider themselves tough but can't handle the reaction of other men if they're seen crying?! wtf

Men can cry AND be strong, yet the comments here suggest the two are incompatible. If there are women who can't handle a few man-tears, then who has the problem? If men mock their emotional brothers but then complain they can't express their own, then those are problems they need to address and not beat their chests in frustration, blame other people or lash out with slurs.

Be the man to make a difference but start with yourself.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yup yup... I made a post earlier and deleted it because it sounded like I was having a pop at the OP, which I'm not.

"Guys should be able to express their emotions ...

• but some women won't fancy them ( does everything in life revolve around getting laid? )
• they might look gay ( homophobic much? )
• we were told to be this way as kids ( so how old are you know? )
• I'd look like a girly-man ( that's sexist - there are strong women )

The way some guys talk you'd think they had no choices: they consider themselves tough but can't handle the reaction of other men if they're seen crying?! wtf

Men can cry AND be strong, yet the comments here suggest the two are incompatible. If there are women who can't handle a few man-tears, then who has the problem? If men mock their emotional brothers but then complain they can't express their own, then those are problems they need to address and not beat their chests in frustration, blame other people or lash out with slurs.

Be the man to make a difference but start with yourself.

What she said above



Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

Yup yup... I made a post earlier and deleted it because it sounded like I was having a pop at the OP, which I'm not.

"Guys should be able to express their emotions ...

• but some women won't fancy them ( does everything in life revolve around getting laid? )
• they might look gay ( homophobic much? )
• we were told to be this way as kids ( so how old are you know? )
• I'd look like a girly-man ( that's sexist - there are strong women )

The way some guys talk you'd think they had no choices: they consider themselves tough but can't handle the reaction of other men if they're seen crying?! wtf

Men can cry AND be strong, yet the comments here suggest the two are incompatible. If there are women who can't handle a few man-tears, then who has the problem? If men mock their emotional brothers but then complain they can't express their own, then those are problems they need to address and not beat their chests in frustration, blame other people or lash out with slurs.

Be the man to make a difference but start with yourself.

Mic drop @stickygirl ?

Or just thread closer ?

Em

 

[ElectricBlue]

It's a knack

Besides, people just rabbit on endlessly like it was an old folks home

Like, "Who stole my Zimmer-frame oil?" and fighting over the best seat in the day lounge?

 

[Seadog777]

Well I've got a thirty-two year old son, and I'm going to call bullshit on that.

You're on a different planet to me, that's for sure.

Call whatever you want, still doesn't change the fact, that that is what is still being taught in today's society to the majority of males.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Call whatever you want, still doesn't change the fact, that that is what is still being taught in today's society to the majority of males.

We clearly move in different societies. It wasn't true with me and my upbringing, and it's not true with my son and any of his peers.

Maybe I had different teachers, or learned things differently.

 

[alohadave]

More like 'we have it worse than women' and women saying 'no, we have it worse' but with more elegant phrasing that lasts an entire page of total bollocks and smelling of rotten cabbage

I don't think it's a competition as to who has it worse. The original question was directed at men, and some of us shared our experiences. I don't have it worse than women, but I do have issues that I deal with. They aren't the same as what women go through, but they aren't any less valid because women go through more pervasive shit than I do.

 

[stickygirl]

I don't think it's a competition as to who has it worse. The original question was directed at men, and some of us shared our experiences. I don't have it worse than women, but I do have issues that I deal with. They aren't the same as what women go through, but they aren't any less valid because women go through more pervasive shit than I do.

You'll know I was just kidding around, but that doesn't dismiss the problems individuals face as being irrelevant. Looking through the thread there are a lot of contradictory claims being made by men, so they have become there own worst enemies.

 

[Comshaw]

Well I've got a thirty-two year old son, and I'm going to call bullshit on that.

You're on a different planet to me, that's for sure.

What a sheltered, myopic, self-centric view of the world you have. Because you didn't experience it, it doesn't exist? Because you didn't teach or treat your son that way, no one else did either? I think everyone understands (or should) that a thing like this is not global, encompassing everyone. But it does still encompass the majority of males, at least in this country. Boys are still told "don't be a baby" "you aren't hurt that bad", "quit crying" and "men don't cry".

Good or bad, I'm not judging it either way. All I'm saying is that it still exists, is still the way the majority of boys are raised. You can believe anything you want. however, it doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters what is.

Yup yup... I made a post earlier and deleted it because it sounded like I was having a pop at the OP, which I'm not.

"Guys should be able to express their emotions ...

• but some women won't fancy them ( does everything in life revolve around getting laid? )
• they might look gay ( homophobic much? )
• we were told to be this way as kids ( so how old are you know? )
• I'd look like a girly-man ( that's sexist - there are strong women )

The way some guys talk you'd think they had no choices: they consider themselves tough but can't handle the reaction of other men if they're seen crying?! wtf

Men can cry AND be strong, yet the comments here suggest the two are incompatible. If there are women who can't handle a few man-tears, then who has the problem? If men mock their emotional brothers but then complain they can't express their own, then those are problems they need to address and not beat their chests in frustration, blame other people or lash out with slurs.

Be the man to make a difference but start with yourself.

This is entertaining. An acerbic post on this subject from a person who touts global inclusion. As far as your "funny" examples, you do realize that's a classic underhanded tactic to insult without appearing to, right? And I don't think anyone throughout this thread has expounded on any of the points you used. But let's examine them, shall we?

• but some women won't fancy them ( does everything in life revolve around getting laid? )

For an average heterosexual male, yes it does, especially in the teen years. And since heterosexual males are the majority, then the majority are consumed by sex. So you are closer to the truth than you realize.

• they might look gay ( homophobic much? )

See the first example. If you are a heterosexual male rife with male hormones, you NEVER want to appear homosexual. It would be difficult to attract a female that way. So it isn't so much about being "homophobic" as it is not wanting to appear to be anything other than heterosexual and being as attractive to as many females as possible.

• we were told to be this way as kids ( so how old are you know? )

Not just "told". Most males are immersed in it, infused with it, from every corner of their lives. So a simplistic "we were told" is deceptive and misdirection.

• I'd look like a girly-man ( that's sexist - there are strong women )

Women are strong. I can attest to how strong some of them are, stronger than I am in some instances. But women have little problem crying in public. Men do, for a variety of reasons. So the term "girly-man" doesn't have anything to do with how strong one is, but how they express their emotions.

As far as your assertion that the subject of men being strong and crying is incompatible, I invite you to go back and read my post and some of the others. You will find the two aren't. You will also find that most of us don't do it in front of anyone for a variety of reasons which are explained.

I find it fascinating that you and EM who both want to be accepted for who you are, refuse to allow that in this instance on this subject.

and while I'm at it I'm going to take up the subject of the "cis" gender bullshit. Why is it that those who would insist on detailing which pronouns are to be used to address them, also insist on demanding that I use "cis"? A classic double standard. I'll say this, which I say a lot over on the PB, you should give what you demand from others. If I demand to be called by a certain pronoun, I should also allow ANYONE else the same freedom.

'nuff said,

Comshaw

 

[EmilyMiller]

What a sheltered, myopic, self-centric view of the world you have. Because you didn't experience it, it doesn't exist? Because you didn't teach or treat your son that way, no one else did either? I think everyone understands (or should) that a thing like this is not global, encompassing everyone. But it does still encompass the majority of males, at least in this country. Boys are still told "don't be a baby" "you aren't hurt that bad", "quit crying" and "men don't cry".

Good or bad, I'm not judging it either way. All I'm saying is that it still exists, is still the way the majority of boys are raised. You can believe anything you want. however, it doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters what is.


This is entertaining. An acerbic post on this subject from a person who touts global inclusion. As far as your "funny" examples, you do realize that's a classic underhanded tactic to insult without appearing to, right? And I don't think anyone throughout this thread has expounded on any of the points you used. But let's examine them, shall we?

For an average heterosexual male, yes it does, especially in the teen years. And since heterosexual males are the majority, then the majority are consumed by sex. So you are closer to the truth than you realize.

See the first example. If you are a heterosexual male rife with male hormones, you NEVER want to appear homosexual. It would be difficult to attract a female that way. So it isn't so much about being "homophobic" as it is not wanting to appear to be anything other than heterosexual and being as attractive to as many females as possible.

Not just "told". Most males are immersed in it, infused with it, from every corner of their lives. So a simplistic "we were told" is deceptive and misdirection.


Women are strong. I can attest to how strong some of them are, stronger than I am in some instances. But women have little problem crying in public. Men do, for a variety of reasons. So the term "girly-man" doesn't have anything to do with how strong one is, but how they express their emotions.

As far as your assertion that the subject of men being strong and crying is incompatible, I invite you to go back and read my post and some of the others. You will find the two aren't. You will also find that most of us don't do it in front of anyone for a variety of reasons which are explained.

I find it fascinating that you and EM who both want to be accepted for who you are, refuse to allow that in this instance on this subject.

and while I'm at it I'm going to take up the subject of the "cis" gender bullshit. Why is it that those who would insist on detailing which pronouns are to be used to address them, also insist on demanding that I use "cis"? A classic double standard. I'll say this, which I say a lot over on the PB, you should give what you demand from others. If I demand to be called by a certain pronoun, I should also allow ANYONE else the same freedom.

'nuff said,

Comshaw

Want a hug?

Em

 

[Comshaw]

Want a hug?

Em

Naw, hugs make me cry.

Comshaw

 

[djrip]

What a sheltered, myopic, self-centric view of the world you have. Because you didn't experience it, it doesn't exist? Because you didn't teach or treat your son that way, no one else did either? I think everyone understands (or should) that a thing like this is not global, encompassing everyone. But it does still encompass the majority of males, at least in this country. Boys are still told "don't be a baby" "you aren't hurt that bad", "quit crying" and "men don't cry".

Good or bad, I'm not judging it either way. All I'm saying is that it still exists, is still the way the majority of boys are raised. You can believe anything you want. however, it doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters what is.


This is entertaining. An acerbic post on this subject from a person who touts global inclusion. As far as your "funny" examples, you do realize that's a classic underhanded tactic to insult without appearing to, right? And I don't think anyone throughout this thread has expounded on any of the points you used. But let's examine them, shall we?

For an average heterosexual male, yes it does, especially in the teen years. And since heterosexual males are the majority, then the majority are consumed by sex. So you are closer to the truth than you realize.

See the first example. If you are a heterosexual male rife with male hormones, you NEVER want to appear homosexual. It would be difficult to attract a female that way. So it isn't so much about being "homophobic" as it is not wanting to appear to be anything other than heterosexual and being as attractive to as many females as possible.

Not just "told". Most males are immersed in it, infused with it, from every corner of their lives. So a simplistic "we were told" is deceptive and misdirection.


Women are strong. I can attest to how strong some of them are, stronger than I am in some instances. But women have little problem crying in public. Men do, for a variety of reasons. So the term "girly-man" doesn't have anything to do with how strong one is, but how they express their emotions.

As far as your assertion that the subject of men being strong and crying is incompatible, I invite you to go back and read my post and some of the others. You will find the two aren't. You will also find that most of us don't do it in front of anyone for a variety of reasons which are explained.

I find it fascinating that you and EM who both want to be accepted for who you are, refuse to allow that in this instance on this subject.

and while I'm at it I'm going to take up the subject of the "cis" gender bullshit. Why is it that those who would insist on detailing which pronouns are to be used to address them, also insist on demanding that I use "cis"? A classic double standard. I'll say this, which I say a lot over on the PB, you should give what you demand from others. If I demand to be called by a certain pronoun, I should also allow ANYONE else the same freedom.

'nuff said,

Comshaw

I was pretty with you for much of this. It is difficult to change cultural conditioning, and it is conditioning from an entire culture, not just being told things by dad 40 years ago.

But no one is making anyone use cis-. Cis- is what cis-gender people can choose to use when they want to specify that they are not trans. You can always just say 'male'.

 

[stickygirl]

What a sheltered, myopic, self-centric view of the world you have. Because you didn't experience it, it doesn't exist? Because you didn't teach or treat your son that way, no one else did either? I think everyone understands (or should) that a thing like this is not global, encompassing everyone. But it does still encompass the majority of males, at least in this country. Boys are still told "don't be a baby" "you aren't hurt that bad", "quit crying" and "men don't cry".

Good or bad, I'm not judging it either way. All I'm saying is that it still exists, is still the way the majority of boys are raised. You can believe anything you want. however, it doesn't matter what you believe, it only matters what is.


This is entertaining. An acerbic post on this subject from a person who touts global inclusion. As far as your "funny" examples, you do realize that's a classic underhanded tactic to insult without appearing to, right? And I don't think anyone throughout this thread has expounded on any of the points you used. But let's examine them, shall we?

For an average heterosexual male, yes it does, especially in the teen years. And since heterosexual males are the majority, then the majority are consumed by sex. So you are closer to the truth than you realize.

See the first example. If you are a heterosexual male rife with male hormones, you NEVER want to appear homosexual. It would be difficult to attract a female that way. So it isn't so much about being "homophobic" as it is not wanting to appear to be anything other than heterosexual and being as attractive to as many females as possible.

Not just "told". Most males are immersed in it, infused with it, from every corner of their lives. So a simplistic "we were told" is deceptive and misdirection.


Women are strong. I can attest to how strong some of them are, stronger than I am in some instances. But women have little problem crying in public. Men do, for a variety of reasons. So the term "girly-man" doesn't have anything to do with how strong one is, but how they express their emotions.

As far as your assertion that the subject of men being strong and crying is incompatible, I invite you to go back and read my post and some of the others. You will find the two aren't. You will also find that most of us don't do it in front of anyone for a variety of reasons which are explained.

I find it fascinating that you and EM who both want to be accepted for who you are, refuse to allow that in this instance on this subject.

and while I'm at it I'm going to take up the subject of the "cis" gender bullshit. Why is it that those who would insist on detailing which pronouns are to be used to address them, also insist on demanding that I use "cis"? A classic double standard. I'll say this, which I say a lot over on the PB, you should give what you demand from others. If I demand to be called by a certain pronoun, I should also allow ANYONE else the same freedom.

'nuff said,

Comshaw

You've lived your own experience and who am I to judge? I'm sorry if my bullet list caused wounds but I will give your points some thought. TY

Don't stress over cis. Before Einstein there was only physics, then there was nuclear physics. Embrace change or be left behind.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Naw, hugs make me cry.

Comshaw

Well if you change your mind.

Em

 

[ElectricBlue]

What a sheltered, myopic, self-centric view of the world you have. Because you didn't experience it, it doesn't exist? Because you didn't teach or treat your son that way, no one else did either? I think everyone understands (or should) that a thing like this is not global, encompassing everyone. But it does still encompass the majority of males, at least in this country. Boys are still told "don't be a baby" "you aren't hurt that bad", "quit crying" and "men don't cry".

The guy said it as an absolute - "boys are taught." If he had written, "some boys in my country are taught", I wouldn't have even responded. You've perpetuated his absolutism by slamming me calling it out as bullshit. But at least you offered the caveat. You can both have your country, but don't assume it's the world.

 

[Bramblethorn]

and while I'm at it I'm going to take up the subject of the "cis" gender bullshit. Why is it that those who would insist on detailing which pronouns are to be used to address them, also insist on demanding that I use "cis"? A classic double standard. I'll say this, which I say a lot over on the PB, you should give what you demand from others. If I demand to be called by a certain pronoun, I should also allow ANYONE else the same freedom.

Two distinct things here.

Pronouns are words that take the place of a name: "he", "she", "they", "I", "you" etc.

"Addressing" somebody = talking to them directly and specifically. In that situation, the relevant pronoun would almost always be the second-person "you": "hello, can you tell me where the carpark is?" Or occasionally informal versions like "youse", "y'all". I don't think there's much controversy about that, at least in English.

I think what you're actually talking about here is pronoun choice when referring to somebody: "I know John, he lives near me". That third-person situation is where pronoun arguments most often come up. This often gets painted as a matter of LGBTrainbowsnowflakes being fussy about pronouns, but in fact, almost everybody has strong ideas about what pronouns they want to be used - just that everybody else gets to have their preferences respected without having to make a fuss about it.

If you're referring to trans people "he" or "she" or "they" according to their preferences, and they're referring to you by "he" (assuming that's your preference, please correct if I'm wrong!) then there's no double standard there. Everybody's respecting the rule that people get to choose their own pronouns.

"trans" and "cis" are adjectives, meaning "across" [in the sense of "opposite side"] and "not across" ["same side"]. They function as an antonym pair, in the same way as "up" and "down" or "left" and "right", except that they've been partnered much longer. We get them from Latin; more than two thousand years ago the Romans were referring to "Gallia Cisalpina" and "Gallia Transalpina" to distinguish between the bits of Gaul that were on the near side of the Alps and those that were on the far side.

English uses them as a pair in several other contexts - chemistry is probably the biggest these days, but you'll also find pairs like "translunar"/"cislunar" in astronomy, or occasionally "transatlantic"/"cisatlantic" in geography. As soon as "transgender" entered the language, "cisgender" implicitly meant the opposite - kind of like how if I showed you a "left-handed widget" you'd know exactly what a "right-handed widget" was, even if you'd never heard that term used before.

AFAIK nobody asked trans people whether they wanted that particular adjective, or if they had their own preferences for how to be described; some psychiatrist created the term from Latin and it became accepted as the standard term for that particular group of people. To accept that terminology, which you apparently do, but then balk at the counterpart that comes with it, that would be the double standard.

To be clear, it's rude to focus on somebody's trans/cis status if it's not relevant to the conversation at hand. But that kind of irrelevant focus is something that trans people have to put up with far more than cis people do.

 

[Duleigh]

I think as I get older rather than becoming more bitter and closed off, the things that I love I LOVE even more, so much so I find it hard to rein in.

I have to agree with you, I couldn't have written the things I'm writing now as little as 10 years ago. I think when life starts hitting me over the head with a mallet, the things I took for granted have become more important

 

[Seadog777]

The guy said it as an absolute - "boys are taught." If he had written, "some boys in my country are taught", I wouldn't have even responded. You've perpetuated his absolutism by slamming me calling it out as bullshit. But at least you offered the caveat. You can both have your country, but don't assume it's the world.

Considering I've actually lived or spent significant time in NA, SA, Europe, Asia and Africa(military family), that is absolutely taught to males all over the world.

I also said that society is trending away from things like that, but it's definitely going at a pace that is far too slow.

It took me a long time and an incredible therapist, for me to understand that it's OK for me to cry and allow myself to have those feelings.

I'm personally happy that you taught your son different.

Anyway, I hope you have a great weekend.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Considering I've actually lived or spent significant time in NA, SA, Europe, Asia and Africa(military family), that is absolutely taught to males all over the world.

I also said that society is trending away from things like that, but it's definitely going at a pace that is far too slow.

It took me a long time and an incredible therapist, for me to understand that it's OK for me to cry and allow myself to have those feelings.

I'm personally happy that you taught your son different.

Anyway, I hope you have a great weekend.

Appreciate the acknowledgement - I am indeed fortunate to be "ahead of the game" - we move in different circles, I guess .

 

[Jmanchu]

I often get told that I write girlie-men. Men who cry. Men who don’t immediately take charge. Men who might be a bit lost or even broken. Oh and men who notice the dress cut, fabric, coloration and fastenings of the FMCs attire. Mustn’t forget that.

I got a comment the other day saying that suppressing emotions is a major factor in men having mental health challenges. They were challenging multiple people who had said something along the lines of the above in comments. That made me think.

I get annoyed when women get treated as a homogenous whole. Just look at the female authors on AH, lots of diffeent personality types.

So I don’t want to make the same mistake about men. But, in general, is it good for guys to be in touch with their emotions?

Em

Guys can cry, some don't care about hiding how they feel. Guys can sometimes be passive or not take charge, or be aware of particular fashion details of a woman's attire. But all of the above? Not usually a guy's M.O.


Crying is usually a sign of vulnerability and weakness for a guy to do. Not saying it's right or wrong that it's that way, it's just how it is.

Most guys, even the emotional ones, go between two modes, normal mode where we're just going with it, and "solve shit" mode, where we're trying to solve something or deal with it and set aside whatever emotional distress or feelings we're going through to solve or handle something. Suppressing emotion is a skill a lot of us guys rely on, and emotional support isn't something we usually count on. A good amount of us don't even have it, period. It's part of the reason why a lot of us are just terrible listeners.

And when it comes to problems, most of us tend to be problem-solvers first, and emotion-focused second. Learning how to handle and just move on from things like rejection, failure, and dwelling on hardship is usually just a part of our lives and our learning experience, especially with failure and rejection. While different guys have different ways of dealing with it, getting emotional and showing vulnerability isn't normally a guy's go-to for handling it. Getting emotional and expressing vulnerability over something beating us down usually worked out of us even if some of us are otherwise emotional naturally.

Taking conflict, distress, and failure by the chin and just walking through it is usually a skill most guys learn if they aren't that way already. Stoicism is often preferred. Not to say all guys are this way a lot of the time, but a lot of us employ this to make life easier for us. Being emotional and vulnerable isn't something that men are rewarded for usually. Mockery, pity, or just creating awkwardness is not uncommon for a guy who does break down and cry especially in public or even if with friends or a girlfriend. Oftentimes it's just not worth it for us even if we're emotionally in a bad place and feel unsure of where to go next. And crying usually leaves us feeling more awkward or weak, and most guys don't like feeling weak, timid, and helpless. If we can't deal with it, we try to move on.

Same thing with being passive or indecisive. This one, most guys just feel more comfortable more often than not to take charge or some kind of initiative of a situation. Most of us feel way more comfortable being competent or assertive rather than passive or indecisive. Staying passive is awkward for us usually. Passive men that just cry without a care in the world the moment things get hard and are comfortable and happy not feeling strong and masculine might exist, but it's not common.

 

[stickygirl]

Guys can cry, some don't care about hiding how they feel. Guys can sometimes be passive or not take charge, or be aware of particular fashion details of a woman's attire. But all of the above? Not usually a guy's M.O.


Crying is usually a sign of vulnerability and weakness for a guy to do. Not saying it's right or wrong that it's that way, it's just how it is.

Most guys, even the emotional ones, go between two modes, normal mode where we're just going with it, and "solve shit" mode, where we're trying to solve something or deal with it and set aside whatever emotional distress or feelings we're going through to solve or handle something. Suppressing emotion is a skill a lot of us guys rely on, and emotional support isn't something we usually count on. A good amount of us don't even have it, period. It's part of the reason why a lot of us are just terrible listeners.

And when it comes to problems, most of us tend to be problem-solvers first, and emotion-focused second. Learning how to handle and just move on from things like rejection, failure, and dwelling on hardship is usually just a part of our lives and our learning experience, especially with failure and rejection. While different guys have different ways of dealing with it, getting emotional and showing vulnerability isn't normally a guy's go-to for handling it. Getting emotional and expressing vulnerability over something beating us down usually worked out of us even if some of us are otherwise emotional naturally.

Taking conflict, distress, and failure by the chin and just walking through it is usually a skill most guys learn if they aren't that way already. Stoicism is often preferred. Not to say all guys are this way a lot of the time, but a lot of us employ this to make life easier for us. Being emotional and vulnerable isn't something that men are rewarded for usually. Mockery, pity, or just creating awkwardness is not uncommon for a guy who does break down and cry especially in public or even if with friends or a girlfriend. Oftentimes it's just not worth it for us even if we're emotionally in a bad place and feel unsure of where to go next. And crying usually leaves us feeling more awkward or weak, and most guys don't like feeling weak, timid, and helpless. If we can't deal with it, we try to move on.

Same thing with being passive or indecisive. This one, most guys just feel more comfortable more often than not to take charge or some kind of initiative of a situation. Most of us feel way more comfortable being competent or assertive rather than passive or indecisive. Staying passive is awkward for us usually. Passive men that just cry without a care in the world the moment things get hard and are comfortable and happy not feeling strong and masculine might exist, but it's not common.

Love this. I'd reinforce what you've said by underlining that men are not a monolith any more than women. The problem with threads like this is that our anecdotes lead us into unrealistic, one-sided statements. Such topics deserves books not blogs.