Nevermind

[jaF0]

That's like saying 'the people' voted for Shrub who was in office in '06. Some did. Most did not.

But that's replying to a guy using Dilbert for an AV which is not only a Lit Rules violation, but considering the artist and the crap he's spewed recently says a lot about the poster.

 

[ll74]

Polls show that Palestinians favored a change in leadership prior to Oct 7. After the attack and subsequent retaliation in Gaza, polls show a dramatic shift towards Hamas.

War has an impact on opinions.

 

[jaF0]

^^ Not only there. We're seeing reports of protests and marches all over the world that indicate the 'Yahu's inappropriate response may have strengthened support for Hamas.

 

[mrno]

Interesting that some are NOT answering the question, but instead attacking me and others.
Is taking small children hostage a terrorist act? That is simple. Or, are some afraid to answer it.

 

[ll74]

Interesting that some are NOT answering the question, but instead attacking me and others.
Is taking small children hostage a terrorist act? That is simple. Or, are some afraid to answer it.

I answered the question and addressed your statement. If you don't enjoy criticisms of your statements, then don't make them

 

[Dribble]

See? You refuse to condemn both. Why?

 

[ll74]

A few things you may not know... that might be worth adding to your calculations.

1) Hamas has been funded and encouraged by Israel as a mechanism to keep Palestinians divided.

Yes, Netenyahu funded them and encouraged division with the PLA. Knew that

2) Many of you believe Hamas only wants to destroy Israel and has repeatedly rejected attempts to create a "2 State Solution." The real truth is that Israel's goal is also elimination or removal of its adversary. Israel is more subtle about it, but it has never wanted a 2 State Solution either.

Part of Hamas' stated objectives is the destruction of Israel. What Israel's goal is or is not, does not change or make that an ok goal.

3) Terrorism is, strictly speaking, a violent attack on civilians to further a political objective. Strictly speaking, the Hamas attack on Oct 7 was a terrorist attack. Strictly speaking, Israel's response since Oct 7 has also been a terrorist attack - and a series of war crimes.

Israel has overreacted in their response

That was a result of the attack by Hamas. If October 7 never happened, Israel would not have retaliated.

4) Personally I put no value on historic claims on land at the nation/state level. If you can take it and hold it, it's yours. If you cannot or will not defend it, someone will take it. Possession is 10/10ths of the law. HOWEVER that doesn't mean you won't make enemies and it doesn't mean they are obligated to let you treat them any way you want to. And yes, they may decide that wiping you out IS preferable to being peaceful in exchange for a small sliver of the land they once held.

Wtf is this about?

5) The word "terrorist" has become so much more, and so much less, than its definition. Today it is so overused that in many cases it just means, "those people I don't like." That's the less. But it has also become more. When someone is labeled a terrorist, his motives don't matter. We don't have to consider the context. We don't have to concern ourselves with his grievance, with fairness, with proportionality, or with maintaining our own standards of decency and morality. He is a terrorist and as such deserves ever bit of vengeance, violence, and brutality we choose to throw at him.

The definition of terrorism hasnt changed.

6) Israel was born of terrorism. I know you think the English just wrote them a deed to some land that nobody cared about... and a few people had to move... and Arabs went nuts. That's what you're supposed to think. But take a little time and read about, Haganah, (assassinations, terror attacks, and castration. source: Haaretz) Irgun, (founded by men who left Haganah because it was not radical and violent enough. source: Jewish Virtual Library) and Lohamei Herut (Der Yassin massacre, bombings, assassinations source: Haaretz, others).

It was not born out of terrorism.

But surely those were just a few bad apples? No. Terrorism was so intrinsic to Israel's birth and acquisition of the land that Menachem Begin went from leader of Irgun to Prime Minister. Incidentally he was also awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, for what that's worth. Apparently the West is pretty flexible in its understanding of terrorism... and peace.

All you seem to be doing is justifying Hamas' attack and saying "Israel's the bad guy"...it's not as deep as you seen to believe it to be, especially because you can't accept historical facts.

In the end, you wanted answers to simple questions in your OP, yet you can't seem to answer those questions plainly, yourself. They aren't hard questions to answer that you asked.

Adding qualifiers means you can't answer the questions.

"Yes, they're terrorists, kinda sorta, but Israel made them do things" isn't an answer.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Hamas' action on 10/7 were, by any legal definition, terrorism and comprised multiple war crimes.

(Hamas won a majority seats in a parliamentarian election in 2005. They then promptly overthrew, murdered, and expelled the opposition party. They have never called an election since. To characterize Gaza as "occupied" is inaccurate as well. Israel pulled out of the Gaza Strip in 2005.)