News: US militery draft is back (I'm not joking)

[shereads]

Re: Triage

I think this draft question is sufficiently answered.

Well, that's settled then.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Yeah it is settled

Death toll doesnt warrant a draft and the data is still out on wonded. In the meantime the military hospitals do what they can.


Blarneystoned

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Triage

Well, that's settled then.

 

[Blarneystoned]

Like I said it is settled

Yeah it is settled
Death toll doesnt warrant a draft and the data is still out on wonded. In the meantime the military hospitals do what they can.


Blarneystoned

 

[Raging Whoremoans]

WTF?

 

[Blarneystoned]

Context is wonderful

"Spend more on the military."


Excellent idea shereads.


Blarneystoned

 

[Raging Whoremoans]

Yes...context kicks ass!

You're a teensy bit naive...

The Good Guys/Bad Guys thing is a childhood fantasy...

Read a newspaper. The president lied...

Open your eyes, for God's sake. Don't be a puppet.

Shereads is just full of good ideas.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

It is not only the hidden quantity, but the secretive quality of casualties.

Wartime injuries
(Link to full article above)

Aided by bullet- and shrapnel-stopping body armor and advanced battlefield medical care, soldiers are surviving attacks in Iraq that would have killed them in previous wars. Many of them, however, are left with disabling and sometimes disfiguring injuries in places body armor doesn't cover: the arms, legs, face and groin.

"Body armor and Kevlar helmets have dramatically increased the survivability from torso hits and head hits," said Maj. Brent A. Johnson of DeWitt, Iowa, the medical director of what Landstuhl calls the Deployed Warrior Medical Management Center. "The result of that is we get a higher percentage of extremity wounds."

Landstuhl is a high-tech way station, a place soldiers go for a few weeks of intensive treatment before they're transferred somewhere closer to home, such as the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington. Landstuhl's permanent staff of 120 Army and Air Force doctors, plus reservists brought in for the Iraq war, see a daily parade of young service members with missing limbs, severe shrapnel wounds and horrible burns.

 

[shereads]

Re: Like I said it is settled

Yeah it is settled
Death toll doesnt warrant a draft and the data is still out on wonded. In the meantime the military hospitals do what they can.


Blarneystoned

So far we know where you stand on two issues: It's okay for a war hawk to sit out a war, because college means he might enter the military as an officer; the question of whether a draft is necessary isn't about the unfairness of allowing the rich and privileged to support the troops from in front of the TV set; it's about whether there are enough dead people to require your participation.

So now we know all about you.

Returning to the subject. In the Anna Quindlan article I referenced earlier, she said that Congress, particularly the right wing, will be reluctant to support reinstating the draft should the need arise, for two reasons: a draft without loopholes (college) would put the children of the wealthy at the same risk as those who enter the military because they need jobs, or as a means of paying for college; to oppose the loopholes could be political suicide - so it's necessary to keep the discussion of the draft from geting into specifics of how it might be carried out. Can anyone think of other reasons why the right wing, and particularly those who have been staunch supporters of the Iraq war, might be opposed to reinstating the draft?

(Obviously, if no new troops are needed, registration for the draft would not mean that anyone is actually drafted. That goes without saying. Moreover, as BS has pointed out, the troops already in Iraq aren't even close to having been decimated. There's the issue of whether it's fair to extend their tours of duty indefinitely, but with what we save on transportation costs to bring them home and replace them with freshly drafted 31-year-old medics and war-hungry college students, the CEO of Lockheed can take his congressman duck-hunting.)

I'm off to the office while BS prepares yet another unsubstantiated response that avoids the issue of fairness.

 

[shereads]

It is not only the hidden quantity, but the secretive quality of casualties.

Wartime injuries
(Link to full article above)

Aided by bullet- and shrapnel-stopping body armor and advanced battlefield medical care, soldiers are surviving attacks in Iraq that would have killed them in previous wars. Many of them, however, are left with disabling and sometimes disfiguring injuries in places body armor doesn't cover: the arms, legs, face and groin.

"Body armor and Kevlar helmets have dramatically increased the survivability from torso hits and head hits," said Maj. Brent A. Johnson of DeWitt, Iowa, the medical director of what Landstuhl calls the Deployed Warrior Medical Management Center. "The result of that is we get a higher percentage of extremity wounds."

Landstuhl is a high-tech way station, a place soldiers go for a few weeks of intensive treatment before they're transferred somewhere closer to home, such as the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington. Landstuhl's permanent staff of 120 Army and Air Force doctors, plus reservists brought in for the Iraq war, see a daily parade of young service members with missing limbs, severe shrapnel wounds and horrible burns.

But they're not dead, right? So BS is correct in assuming there will be no need for a draft. As for improving the care of injured soldiers and veterans by spending maybe a fraction of that $390 billion/year on something other than the Star Wars missile defense program, we can't even explore that option because anyone who questions the way the Defense Department spends its money is branded as anti-military. So what's your point, VB? Are you using the wounded to support your socialist agenda?

 

[shereads]

disabling and sometimes disfiguring injuries in places body armor doesn't cover: the arms, legs, face and [color=dark red]groin.[/color]

I think VB may have stumbled upon the reason our war hawks are opposed to resinstating the draft. They might get shot in the machismo.

 

[Guest]

. . .They might get shot in the machismo.

Not that!


http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/kampf/nutkick.gif

 

[Blarneystoned]

Draft question answered ..

Thanks for your off base liberal assumptions. I signed up for the selective service years ago. I support our military fully. I have already contacted US military medical recruiters. I would consider it an honor to serve as a medical officer.


I didn't burn my draft card, nor do I consider college an escape from service to our country. I owe the US military medical system my life. Unlike you, I save lives.

So did you burn your draft card or have you set foot on a military base since you left your parent's house???

So you can go read your leftist newspapers now that we have answered the draft question.


Blarneystoned

 

[Guest]

Did an ill wind just blow?

http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/zensiert/zensiert027.gif

 

[Blarneystoned]

Once again ...Crushed by a force of nature

Destroyed....dominated and smacked down. Too Bad Sarah would you like a bandaide?

The Blarneystoned is victorious.

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... The Blarneystoned is victorious.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Otherwise, I would NEVER have guessed.

 

[shereads]

Re: Draft question answered ..

Thanks for your off base liberal assumptions. I signed up for the selective service years ago. I support our military fully. I have already contacted US military medical recruiters. I would consider it an honor to serve as a medical officer.


I didn't burn my draft card, nor do I consider college an escape from service to our country. I owe the US military medical system my life. Unlike you, I save lives.

So did you burn your draft card or have you set foot on a military base since you left your parent's house???

So you can go read your leftist newspapers now that we have answered the draft question.

Congratulations on having signed up for selective service. As to your assertion that this answers "the draft question" as posed to the forum, that's one more indicator of your phenomenal ego. It's not all about you.

Now, if you don't mind, I'll try this again.

Returning to the subject. In the Anna Quindlan article I referenced earlier, she said that Congress, particularly the right wing, will be reluctant to support reinstating the draft should the need arise, for two reasons: a draft without loopholes (college) would put the children of the wealthy at the same risk as those who enter the military because they need jobs, or as a means of paying for college; to oppose the loopholes could be political suicide - so it's necessary to keep the discussion of the draft from geting into specifics of how it might be carried out. Can anyone think of other reasons why the right wing, and particularly those who have been staunch supporters of the Iraq war, might be opposed to reinstating the draft?

VB's contribution is too important to get lost behind Blarney's massive ego, so I'll repost that too:

Originally posted by Virtual_Burlesque

It is not only the hidden quantity, but the secretive quality of casualties.

Wartime injuries
(Link to full article above)

Aided by bullet- and shrapnel-stopping body armor and advanced battlefield medical care, soldiers are surviving attacks in Iraq that would have killed them in previous wars. Many of them, however, are left with disabling and sometimes disfiguring injuries in places body armor doesn't cover: the arms, legs, face and groin.

"Body armor and Kevlar helmets have dramatically increased the survivability from torso hits and head hits," said Maj. Brent A. Johnson of DeWitt, Iowa, the medical director of what Landstuhl calls the Deployed Warrior Medical Management Center. "The result of that is we get a higher percentage of extremity wounds."

Landstuhl is a high-tech way station, a place soldiers go for a few weeks of intensive treatment before they're transferred somewhere closer to home, such as the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington. Landstuhl's permanent staff of 120 Army and Air Force doctors, plus reservists brought in for the Iraq war, see a daily parade of young service members with missing limbs, severe shrapnel wounds and horrible burns.

But they're not dead, right? So BS is correct in assuming there will be no need for a draft. As for improving the care of injured soldiers and veterans by spending maybe a fraction of that $390 billion/year on something other than the Star Wars missile defense program, we can't even explore that option because anyone who questions the way the Defense Department spends its money is branded as anti-military. So what's your point, VB? Are you using the wounded to support your socialist agenda?

 

[shereads]

Re: Once again ...Crushed by a force of nature

Destroyed....dominated and smacked down. Too Bad Sarah would you like a bandaide?

The Blarneystoned is victorious.

Evidently not.

By the way, BS, as for your assertion that you save lives...You've got a ways to go before you save enough to make up for the 30,000 Iraqi civilians whose deaths you find inconsequential. If you continue to support this war despite evidence that the men you elected lied to achieve it, the continued deaths are as much your doing as theirs. Your willingness to serve would be admirable if you weren't so eager to see Zor, my nephew and countless other clueless boys die in the service of Bush/Cheney's power trip. This isn't Normandy. We didn't kill 30,000 French civilians in downtown Paris, and unless we were hoping to control the world's supply of camembert, we didn't have an ulterior motive.

Smackdown, your smug derriere

 

[Blarneystoned]

Comparisons

If your going to compare casualties at least research how many civilians were killed in WWII...


Germany 2million
Italy 70,000
Japan 350,000
Rumania 400,000
Bulgaria 50,000
Hungary 200,000
Finland 4,000



China 9 million
Poland 2.5million
U.K. 60,000
France 270,000
Australia 70,000 --
India 100,000 --
New Zealand 30,000 --
So. Africa 23,000 --
Canada 92,000 --
Denmark 1,000
Norway 6,000
Belgium 100,000
Holland 250,000
Greece 400,000
Yugoslavia 1.3million
U.S.S.R. 19 million
USA -- Pearle Harbor ---3400 Military Dead...

You should read some history books hon....

Bombs are indiscriminate...but they stop conflicts. If I look at civilian casualties of WWII ..France alone was 270 000 civilian dead...

No one escapes death hon and you dont get to choose how you die. Praying for Zor and you nephew is all you can do hon, to each his fate. When it is your time, it is your time...whether you are an old person, a soldier, a civilian, a man hit by a bus, a woman dying in labor, or a child killed in a car wreck. Nothing we do or say can change you from dying. You dont bite your nails contemplating death either...you face it and you accept it. We begin dying the moment we enter into this world...our time cards our limited. What we do with the time is what matters. My life, your life, Zors and your nephews are all measured. Let them to their own fates. Pray for them and be there if they need you.

The UN will come around and Iraq will be free. Then our troops can come home.

Blarneystoned

 

[lucky-E-leven]

 

[shereads]

Re: Comparisons

If your going to compare casualties at least research how many civilians were killed in WWII...


Germany 2million
Italy 70,000
Japan 350,000
Rumania 400,000
Bulgaria 50,000
Hungary 200,000
Finland 4,000



China 9 million
Poland 2.5million
U.K. 60,000
France 270,000
Australia 70,000 --
India 100,000 --
New Zealand 30,000 --
So. Africa 23,000 --
Canada 92,000 --
Denmark 1,000
Norway 6,000
Belgium 100,000
Holland 250,000
Greece 400,000
Yugoslavia 1.3million
U.S.S.R. 19 million
USA -- Pearle Harbor ---3400 Military Dead...

You should read some history books hon....

Bombs are indiscriminate...but they stop conflicts. If I look at civilian casualties of WWII ..France alone was 270 000 civilian dead...

No one escapes death hon and you dont get to choose how you die. Praying for Zor and you nephew is all you can do hon, to each his fate. When it is your time, it is your time...whether you are an old person, a soldier, a civilian, a man hit by a bus, a woman dying in labor, or a child killed in a car wreck. Nothing we do or say can change you from dying. You dont bite your nails contemplating death either...you face it and you accept it. We begin dying the moment we enter into this world...our time cards our limited. What we do with the time is what matters. My life, your life, Zors and your nephews are all measured. Let them to their own fates. Pray for them and be there if they need you.

The UN will come around and Iraq will be free. Then our troops can come home.

Blarneystoned

Are you attempting to make a point of some kind? Let's try a logical progression of thought-steps.

1) You, BS, maintain that a draft is not necessary because there have been few fatalities in Iraq relative to Vietnam.
2) This ignores the question of WTF we are doing in Iraq to begin with, and whether it is moral to liberate people by killing tens of thousands of them.
3) You additionally ignore the incompetence and poor planning demonstrated by your boy Dubya, maintaining that he's a good Commander in Chief because...I forget why. It can't have anything to do with this war or his military experience. Maybe I dreamed that you said that. If so, I apologize.
4) Moreover, you ignore the question of why the people most in favor of the war - Repubicans - are so opposed to reinstating the draft without a college deferment. (By the way, it is possible for a young war hawk to get his war on his resume now, and attend college AFTER the war. The military will even help pay for it. Having "other priorities" was Cheney's excuse; it's lame, simply because college will keep but the war might not.)
5) In response to your assertion that a draft is not needed because we don't have a high enough death rate in Iraq, VB and I both posted information asserting that the number of deaths is not, in itself, an indicator of troop losses; and indicating that the number of severe injuries has been played down by the Pentagon.

To which your reply is a pep talk about the inevitability of death, and a list of casualties from other wars?

No wonder this president makes sense to you.

What exactly was your point?

Edited to add: Forgive my ignorance about the length of WWII, but I have to ask: it lasted longer than a year, didn't it? So your comparison is valid because....?

 

[Blarneystoned]

Did you ever think about how they get these numbers?

Do you think there is someone there with a clicker going ..this one died from a U.S bomb.....this one an Iraqi power line fell on him...this one was killed by an oil well exploding....your figures are just estimates ...estimates of burials...estimates of how many we think lived on this side...some one says their uncle is missing. I doubt the Iraquis even had a census count ...and now you are going off the edge and acting like we went in just to kill babies and old women...those dastardly US soldiers...

My point is this..your estimated civilian death..is an estimate and you dont know how and when a single one of them died....you are just speculating...

Death is death. At least Sadaams sons arent running around anymore putting people in leaf grinders and executing people for fun....the tens of millions that are free will make something of Iraq given the opportunity they will pick up the pieces and move on.

Blarneystoned

 

[Blarneystoned]

Same thing in WWII

Do you think they are able to diffentiate which civilians were dead from American, German, or Allied warfare....no they just know people are dead....same thing in Iraq....a town is gone...there are bodies...
we cut this one open and found an Ak 47 shell...this one is an
M 16 oh wait this one is a knife he fell on..not sure which catagory to put him in...

.Morbidity and Mortality statistics are still out on Iraq

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

... Praying for Zor and you nephew is all you can do hon, to each his fate. When it is your time, it is your time...

You are being remarkably cavalier about the death of people in harm’s way, when you are safely half a world away.

... My life, your life, Zors and your nephews are all measured. Let them to their own fates... .

There is a vast difference between a death attributable to Kismet, and one attributable to somebody’s ludicrous plan for world domination.

If it were not actually happening, the Bush Administration would barely make it as second rate Batman Comic villains

... The UN will come around and Iraq will be free. Then our troops can come home. ..

We can only hope, but Bush has certainly done his best to piss off the international community. Our best hope is that the UN doesn’t punish our troops for acts perpetrated by their government’s administration.

And if the UN doesn't come around Iraq must remain occupied, I suppose, by the same 130,000 troops for the following decade.

I mean, they’re young, they have plenty of time. They should be proud to be allowed to protect Haliburton's property.

 

[shereads]

Re: Did you ever think about how they get these numbers?

Do you think there is someone there with a clicker going ..this one died from a U.S bomb.....this one an Iraqi power line fell on him...this one was killed by an oil well exploding....your figures are just estimates ...estimates of burials...estimates of how many we think lived on this side...some one says their uncle is missing. I doubt the Iraquis even had a census count ...and now you are going off the edge and acting like we went in just to kill babies and old women...those dastardly US soldiers...

My point is this..your estimated civilian death..is an estimate and you dont know how and when a single one of them died....you are just speculating...

Death is death. At least Sadaams sons arent running around anymore putting people in leaf grinders and executing people for fun....the tens of millions that are free will make something of Iraq given the opportunity they will pick up the pieces and move on.

Blarneystoned

If you ever answer a direct question, you'll either be formidable or pitiful as a debater, but we'll never know which.

Are you sure nobody's been killed just for fun? There's a video of a homicide by our MPs that Rumsfeld made reference to. Maybe not with a leaf grinder. Maybe they just let the dogs have him, or beat him to death. Death is death, as you said.

And nobody said the soldiers were dastardly, BS. Their leaders definitely are, because they were willing to risk the lives of civilians and soldiers alike for no purpose that hasn't been factually refuted. The one we almost bought off on was, "Saddam was mean, but we're nice." That one's been blown all to hell. So has our credibility with the U.N. There's a little thing called "foreign relations" that world leaders practice. Someone forgot to explain its value to GWB.