Next Pub presidential debate tonight, 10/28/15

[sr71plt]

You're not bothering because he hasn't said anything that crazy...the border wall is about as close as it gets. And even then if it pumps the economy up then it ain't that fuckin' crazy.



The Chinese foreclose on the loans we cross our arms and they fucking STARVE TO DEATH.

China is NOT in control here unless we allow them to be.

Bullshit. I'm not going to the effort to compile (but someone did) because neither you nor Trump are worth the effort. You're certainly not going to suddenly get a brain.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I do own my own business and it wasn't handed to me and no I don't in any real sense of the word pass on my taxes to my customers. This idea is pretty much a conservative half truth. I have to pay for various fees and licenses yes, and that money comes out of my profits yes. Does that mean I pass it on to my consumers? Sort of.

See I know what my fees and licenses are going to come to and I budget for that but I don't raise my prices to account for them nor would I lower my prices if they magically went away tomorrow. At least not unless my competition did the same and I was forced to do so which may or may not happen.

Now if anything that costs me money counts as a cost to my consumers then sure. But by that logic I pass on my parking tickets to my consumers because if I can't drive, I can't work, if I can't work I can't provide my service to them. I also pass on my bar tab to them because I like to drink, my XBox Gold account because I enjoy pwning noobs and my rent. I could move an extra 50 miles out and cut my rent, I could get one of those live in work spots on Main Street and all but eliminate my gas bill. I could carpool or sleep in the office or dozens of other things. Every single aspect of my life is passed on to my consumers.

So in short this is Conservative Psuedotruth. The stuff that isn't a lie but should rightfully be ignored.

PS: Even if other companies did it's still not the sole thing they are paying for. Rent and utilities exist as well.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I do own my own business and it wasn't handed to me and no I don't in any real sense of the word pass on my taxes to my customers.

So who gives you the money to pay your taxes?

My customers give me every penny of tax my business pays. Every fucking penny, came from a customer.

See I know what my fees and licenses are going to come to and I budget for that

And your customers give it to you.

You CAN'T tax a business, you can only tax their customers.

Bullshit. I'm not going to the effort to compile (but someone did) because neither you nor Trump are worth the effort. You're certainly not going to suddenly get a brain.

So basically you just don't like him....because he's not nice and polite??

Doesn't sugar coat everything for warm fuzzy effect???

LOL

 

[Sean Renaud]

Of course you can tax a business. This concept that you can't is absurd and I just laid out why.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Of course you can tax a business. This concept that you can't is absurd and I just laid out why.

No you didn't.

If your customers don't cover your tax bill, you don't get fucking paid shit. Every dollar you have was paid to you by your customers.

If the government comes in and levies astronomical taxes against your industry you would be just like pack of smokes or a gallon of gas. Most of that cost is all tax. You can only absorb so much before you're forced to become uber corp or be put out of business.

Exxon Mobil's CEO doesn't eat it when we fine them a bazillion bucks. Gas goes up 4 cents and the consumer pays it at the pump or by the quart.


When CA says "These fucking dairy farmers...psshh....they need to be REGULATED because reasons!!" and CDFA sends an inspector out there every fuckin' week to the tune of 1400 bucks a pop his customers HAVE to pay that or he's out of business.

Im' rather curious to know what industry you're in where they dont' really fuck with you. Got a comic book store or some shit? Cuz that would be rad....and I don't see many dick head regulations in that industry.

Because when it comes to food or heavy industry the shit is just out of control.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Except that's not true in reality. A company that isn't already charging you every single penny you're willing to pay is a company run by morons. And most aren't. There are a few exceptions like gas where the public as a whole simply isn't in a position to not buy your product but with anything else they have to suck it up.

 

[sr71plt]

So basically you just don't like him....because he's not nice and polite??

Doesn't sugar coat everything for warm fuzzy effect???

LOL

No, I don't like him because I have a brain and can see that he's a shallow, crude blowhard who has made his money by screwing other people and walking out of bankruptcies with money and leaving others in the lurch. This in no way is a way to run a government. There isn't an ounce of presidential value in the blowhard.

You I just see as a nincompoop, who is well placed talking ignorant politics on a porn discussion board (hopefully just as attention-getting performance art).

 

[BotanyBoy]

Except that's not true in reality.

'
Then tell me who gives you your money?

I get mine from the consumer....seriously what business are you in where taxes don't effect you and your consumer doesn't have to pay them?

Because farming is obviously a horrible idea, at least in CA.

A company that isn't already charging you every single penny you're willing to pay is a company run by morons. And most aren't.

Right.....they can still only absorb so much before there is a direct correlation between price and taxes/regulation. Ciggz n booze are a great example of luxury items that are mostly tax. Sure some industries have more give and take than others and some industries are hella more regulated than other, but the effect is still the same.

When you tax a business that business's consume HAS to cover that cost. Which is GREAT for big companies with MILLIONS of customers to spread those inspection fees and 100,000 dollar licence cost etc. TERRIBLE for mom and pop.

There are a few exceptions like gas where the public as a whole simply isn't in a position to not buy your product but with anything else they have to suck it up.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, I don't like him because I have a brain and can see that he's a shallow, crude blowhard who has made his money by screwing other people and walking out of bankruptcies with money and leaving others in the lurch. This in no way is a way to run a government. There isn't an ounce of presidential value in the blowhard.

Now was that so hard? Jesus Christ...

You I just see as a nincompoop, who is well placed talking ignorant politics on a porn discussion board (hopefully just as attention-getting performance art).

Ignorant politics you can't even address with anything beyond childish name calling because your an emotional basket case.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I do fingerprints, but I've also run a convience store. Where I get my money isn't important unless you plan to argue that any expense I have is something the consumer pays. I don't count my grocery bill as an expense to my customers. It is mind you, if I couldn't afford to to have nice things I'd find a new line of work. But that's an overly broad definition. I'm not a farmer, I don't know what your taxes are or aren't.

No, the effect is NOT the same. There is a threshhold and anything below said threshold has zero or close to zero effect on your business. Most of the fees you've mentioned in the past are flat fees. In fact that's specifically why you bring them up because a flat 5k fee is absolutely a barrier to a small guy but big business looks at 5k and goes. . .well I guess that means we're getting corner donuts instead of Krispy Kremes for TGIF and it has no further effect. Now cigs, booze and gas are all taxes per unit sold and THOSE taxes do generally effect the price but only up to a degree mostly because at some point people will simply go without, buy out of state or if necessary find a black market. (Or in reality some combination of the three.)

At the end of the day I don't REALLY give a shit about mom and pops. You're mom and pops because you suck at your industry or just happened to be born too late. While I am a fan of keeping possibilities open didn't you just explain to me about how there should be winners in the world because if the big guy can't kill you then the game itself is pointless?

 

[sr71plt]

Ignorant politics you can't even address with anything beyond childish name calling because your an emotional basket case.

No, I just don't have any time to give to ignorant reactionaries. You're a waste of effort.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I do fingerprints, but I've also run a convience store. Where I get my money isn't important unless

UNLESS YOU GOT A GOVERNMENT CONTRACT!!

you plan to argue that any expense I have is something the consumer pays.

EVERY SINGLE EXPENSE to to your business.

I don't count my grocery bill as an expense to my customers.

Does your business pay you an income?

At the end of the day I don't REALLY give a shit about mom and pops.

Of course not.

You're mom and pops because you suck at your industry or just happened to be born too late.

No it's not because you suck, some folks don't wan't to have to run an international mega corp.

While I am a fan of keeping possibilities open didn't you just explain to me about how there should be winners in the world because if the big guy can't kill you then the game itself is pointless?

Since when?

At least I get the chance to take a shot at him...under socialism the government shields the mother fucker, let's him crash his company and gives him 700 billion bonus for doing it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, I just don't have any time to give to ignorant reactionaries. You're a waste of effort.

Yet time and again you find enough effort to come in here and shit talk. LOL

Sell that pathetic lie to someone else cupcake cuz I'm not buying it.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I like Trumps' in-your-face message, but it is starting to sound hollow.

He needs to stop tell us about his Polls and start telling us about his policies, or he is going to fade away.

The centerpiece of his foreign policy is to build a wall that would rival the Great Wall of China (in four years, no less!) and somehow get Mexico to pay for it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The centerpiece of his foreign policy is to build a wall that would rival the Great Wall of China (in four years, no less!) and somehow get Mexico to pay for it.

What's anyone else got going on? Playing finger fuck games with ISIS through some mid eastern shit hole?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Least interesting debate ever.

When will they stop blowing each other and complaining about the media?

I am not sure any public policy has been discussed yet.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

You CAN'T tax a business, you can only tax their customers.

I am in a price fixed market. Every dime of a tax increase come straight from profits. I am not able to increase earnings to offset taxes.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

And the GOP blowies continue ...

 

[JackLuis]

It was... less crazy than the last debate.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I am in a price fixed market.

Doesn't matter. If you don't charge the consumer there is no market and there is no tax appropriation.

When you tax an industry/business you tax it's consumers, there is no way to avoid it.

Every dime of a tax increase come straight from profits. I am not able to increase earnings to offset taxes.

Some of the taxes I pay also come out of my ass to stay competitive....but there is a limit to that. Obviously some industries depending on how your business is set up have more wiggle room than others.

So as all these "Yea fuck that company tax their tits off!!" taxes pile up, at what point do you quit laying people off, exporting their jobs to some 3rd world hole/China and cutting your salary back and start charging the customer more? You'll have to eventually....you HAVE to. Now remember this is happening all over...gas....food....they are all getting their nuts taxed off just like you, so their prices have to go up which increases your bottom line and shrinks your profits to shit.

Meanwhile everyone with a government contract? Fuckin' BALLIN ........

That's what I need to do.....
http://api.ning.com/files/WNWOMaWEK6liCACXtpjlh4RF5lxzGt9xvLP3fYFEhHHFf-Viyb1DUY*9kqobo1NZuNcER1yxi5nY5FHApZvX47TPs81kejlr/Lightbulb760506.jpg

I just need to get a government contract...get that gravy.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Right here you are admiting both that taxes do not by definition get passed on, some you simply eat and the larger the corporation the easier it is to either a) "distribute it out" or b) simply eat and ignore it. I'm willing to bet that Microsoft doesn't even notice a 5k license tax on this or that.

If you're point was it effects different kinds of businesses different ways I'd utterly agree with you. I think one of the biggest goofs (Well brilliant Conservatives did it so it's a feature not a bug) is crap like "simplifying and streamlining the tax code" one part of which was lowering the number of brackets. Here's the thing you can't treat a 250ker like a millionaire, like a multimillionaire like a billionaire. Because they simply aren't. People making 250k a year put their pants on one leg at a time. Just like you and me. Millionaires. . .depends on where they live but still mostly the same way. When you start talking tens and hundreds of millions of dollars though. . .shit I've seen the Oscars. Sometimes women are literally sewn into their dresses instead of putting them on like normal folk!

 

[BotanyBoy]

Right here you are admiting both that taxes do not by definition get passed on, some you simply eat and the larger the corporation the easier it is to either a) "distribute it out" or b) simply eat and ignore it. I'm willing to bet that Microsoft doesn't even notice a 5k license tax on this or that.

I don't see it that way. I see the state charges me a bunch of artificial costs that I have to get my customers to cover before I'm allowed to try and make a living for myself. That's a big hurdle for anyone that doesn't already have big bux. It's not friendly to the poor...I see it as oppressive and pro uber corp/mega rich.

If you're point was it effects different kinds of businesses different ways I'd utterly agree with you.

It effects them all the same way....it just hurts poorer folks more than the rick folks, and the more bullshit 'regulation' and taxation you pile on the better things will get for the wealthy. They can eat it the longest but once they are less than threatened they are free to pretty much fuck everyone in the ass all they want up to and including walking into congress demanding a couple trill and walking out with a check in hand.

And the more impossible it becomes to escape being a wage slave for said rich folks. I can't go hustle my own lawn company up if I need 100 grand worth of paperwork before I'm allowed to start.

I think one of the biggest goofs (Well brilliant Conservatives did it so it's a feature not a bug) is crap like "simplifying and streamlining the tax code" one part of which was lowering the number of brackets. Here's the thing you can't treat a 250ker like a millionaire, like a multimillionaire like a billionaire. Because they simply aren't. People making 250k a year put their pants on one leg at a time. Just like you and me. Millionaires. . .depends on where they live but still mostly the same way. When you start talking tens and hundreds of millions of dollars though. . .shit I've seen the Oscars. Sometimes women are literally sewn into their dresses instead of putting them on like normal folk!

Exactly, I totally agree so why don't we ease the fuck up off 'mom and pop' and go after the wealthy? It's so much easier/cleaner/less destructive than trying to fuck them through their company. Make it so Jose can have his own fucking lawn crew without needing THOUSANDS of fucking dollars in bullshit papwerwork, + 18 months of bureaucracy just so he can go push a fucking lawn mower for himself.

Or grow god damn raspberries....lol California is just sooooooo over the fucking top with regulating just for the shits and giggles for regulating. Like Sacramento gets bored and just sits around thinking of ways to incur costs upon independent/private companies because it gets them off. "Hey my bro needs a job what kinda agency you think we can make this week??? Who needs some regulating?? "
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/regulators-mount-up.jpg

 

[phrodeau]

No you didn't.

If your customers don't cover your tax bill, you don't get fucking paid shit. Every dollar you have was paid to you by your customers.

If the government comes in and levies astronomical taxes against your industry you would be just like pack of smokes or a gallon of gas. Most of that cost is all tax. You can only absorb so much before you're forced to become uber corp or be put out of business.

Exxon Mobil's CEO doesn't eat it when we fine them a bazillion bucks. Gas goes up 4 cents and the consumer pays it at the pump or by the quart.


When CA says "These fucking dairy farmers...psshh....they need to be REGULATED because reasons!!" and CDFA sends an inspector out there every fuckin' week to the tune of 1400 bucks a pop his customers HAVE to pay that or he's out of business.

Im' rather curious to know what industry you're in where they dont' really fuck with you. Got a comic book store or some shit? Cuz that would be rad....and I don't see many dick head regulations in that industry.

Because when it comes to food or heavy industry the shit is just out of control.

Exxon can't increase their pump price without losing customers to Shell, Tesoro, BP and everyone else who didn't increase their price.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I don't see it that way. I see the state charges me a bunch of artificial costs that I have to get my customers to cover before I'm allowed to try and make a living for myself. That's a big hurdle for anyone that doesn't already have big bux. It's not friendly to the poor...I see it as oppressive and pro uber corp/mega rich.

Everything is artificial so that's just a word your throwing around. I'm goign to stick to what we seem to agree on. It's not friendly to the poor. I don't know if I think it's oppressive because without going line by line on these costs I can't say how many of them I would keep or not. But it's not friendly to the poor regardless. This contrasts your below statement.

It effects them all the same way....it just hurts poorer folks more than the rick folks, and the more bullshit 'regulation' and taxation you pile on the better things will get for the wealthy. They can eat it the longest but once they are less than threatened they are free to pretty much fuck everyone in the ass all they want up to and including walking into congress demanding a couple trill and walking out with a check in hand.

IT if hurts the poor more than the rich it doesn't effect them the same way. That's just reality. That's like saying dumping 100 lbs pack on a toddler does the same thing as dumping a 200 lbs bag on a trained military man. It doesn't. The toddler is crushed to death and the Military man goes trotting down the trail laughing that you forgot half the shit he's supposed to be carrying.

If you're goal is to hurt the rich you have to make programs that specifically target them. You also need to start parsing out actuall small businesses from businesses with low amounts of personell, stop letting them play various games to keep these numbers down.

However if that is the goal we have to stand together on the FUCK competition grounds we want more players on the field. Or simply sit back and let the rich win. Personally I know we can't get together on the only way to fix this so I'm content to try and find ways to make it suck less.

And the more impossible it becomes to escape being a wage slave for said rich folks. I can't go hustle my own lawn company up if I need 100 grand worth of paperwork before I'm allowed to start.

It was never possible, not since the Industrial revolution. That's just life.

Exactly, I totally agree so why don't we ease the fuck up off 'mom and pop' and go after the wealthy? It's so much easier/cleaner/less destructive than trying to fuck them through their company. Make it so Jose can have his own fucking lawn crew without needing THOUSANDS of fucking dollars in bullshit papwerwork, + 18 months of bureaucracy just so he can go push a fucking lawn mower for himself.

I'll look into lawn mowing. I've run two businesses and the government basically peeked into make sure I wasn't insane, threw some fees at me and never looked back. Still I'm laying odds those guys have minimal issues to leap.

Or grow god damn raspberries....lol California is just sooooooo over the fucking top with regulating just for the shits and giggles for regulating. Like Sacramento gets bored and just sits around thinking of ways to incur costs upon independent/private companies because it gets them off. "Hey my bro needs a job what kinda agency you think we can make this week??? Who needs some regulating?? "
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/regulators-mount-up.jpg

Nobody is denying that California regulates more than most. I do deny it's for shits n giggles though and I want specifics.

Exxon can't increase their pump price without losing customers to Shell, Tesoro, BP and everyone else who didn't increase their price.

They all raise their prices in tandem since a tax would effect them all equally. Even if it didn't one of the many problems with America not being aggressive enough about breaking up monopolies and near monoplies is that the companies don't need to get together in a shady room and negotiate how to fuck us. They just all have to trust the next guy not to be the one who fucks it up. With enough people SOMEONE will inevitably be that douche but every time that group gets a little smaller it becomes that much easier.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Everything is artificial so that's just a word your throwing around.

Fine, arbitrary bullshit cost imposed by some ass lick in Sac/DC that I wouldn't otherwise have to cover.

That clear things up?

IT if hurts the poor more than the rich it doesn't effect them the same way. That's just reality.

It effects them the same way in that it's the same cost incursion. A tax is a tax is tax.

If you're goal is to hurt the rich you have to make programs that specifically target them. You also need to start parsing out actuall small businesses from businesses with low amounts of personell, stop letting them play various games to keep these numbers down.

Yea that would help, heavy handed regulation needs to GTFO too.

However if that is the goal we have to stand together on the FUCK competition grounds we want more players on the field.

Yea, and shit canning some of the bullshit regulations out there.

It was never possible, not since the Industrial revolution. That's just life.

I'm not a wage slave.....people give me their money, I don't get a paycheck.

I'll look into lawn mowing. I've run two businesses and the government basically peeked into make sure I wasn't insane, threw some fees at me and never looked back. Still I'm laying odds those guys have minimal issues to leap.

Well food production is the exact opposite of that shit.

Nobody is denying that California regulates more than most. I do deny it's for shits n giggles though and I want specifics.

Limited licencing just because? What a crock of shit. If the are safety/environmentally compliant there is no reason to limit their opportunity to make money.

I've already told you about the 4 inspectors from the same state inspecting the same shit....that's not necessary, that's a scam. There is no reason they cant' send 1 inspector out several times a year that files a digitial report all state agencies can CYA with.

But what about all those jobs!!! and thus the realization.....they don't really need all this inspecting, someone just needed a job so CA created them LOL