NonCon related question

[lovecraft68]

In studies it has been observed that one of the reasons women enjoy erotic rape fantasies is that they like to imagine themselves/ the victim being so attractive/ irresistible to the rapist that he just had to have them at any cost.

And again, in your example it is an enjoyable fantasy, a erotic rape fantasy. Not rapist, no woman that I have ever met has fantasized about truly being raped. Keep in mind many women who are raped are beaten as well can't say I've run into anyone who gets off on wanting to be punched in the face.

When my sister was raped years ago the defense actually tried to say she "liked it rough" and her attacker obliged.

My sister had a broken jaw. I am sure she, or any other woman, has never masturbated at night thinking, "Oh God, it would be so hot to have my face beaten in, Oh, baby!"

But rapists do.

Double standard though because I remember being in court after I beat him half to death and smiling at the prosecutor and saying "I heard he liked it rough."

Somehow that was not seen as a valid defense in my case.

 

[subdued_passion]

Do not forget: Rape is a violent crime. Rape is about power, not sex....

Power isn't the only motivator. Sometimes it's sadism, anger, sexual frustration, psychopathy, flawed ethical standards, law (eg Inida where marital rape is legal), socio-biology (some individuals have not evolved) and some others that I'm missing.

I find this terminology of a "rapist" fantasy very bothersome.
Many actual rapists are...married, with "normal" lives and "normal" fantasies. They may fantasize about rainbows and romance. They may peruse gay male. Then they get pissed because their wife calls them a loser and they go rape a stranger.
The vast majority of actual rape is an opportunistic crime of violence.
There is NO necessity for it to be or have been a fantasy at any point.
There is NO proven connection between pornography consumption/addiction and committing rape. Trust me I have scoured the statistics.
There is the argument that releasing aggression through a stroke "rapist" fantasy will actually diffuse the urge to violence, not cause it.
The relation between fantasy/reality is waay more complicated.
Behavioralists separate the mass of rapists from sex killers--i.e. people whose SOLE motivation in rape or killing is the gratification of a sexual fantasy. Ted Bundy for example.
These do exist, but they are actually much more rare. And not to be confused with the rapist who is actually NOT
motivated by fantasy.
Furthermore there is a huge difference between a porn scenario you jerk off to and a very deep seated fantasy that does not change, has been there or in formation since childhood and is basically unaffected by anything.

"Rapist fantasy" is to me a very misleading generalization that doesn't at all reflect the complexity and reality of sexual violence.

Yes, the most common form of rape is where the victim knows her assailant. And yes it is a crime of opportunity. But that does not mean that the person went from 0 on the scale of violence to a 100 just because he got the chance to do so. At the end of the day for most people to do something you need to already be predisposed to it. Everything else that happens is just a trigger.

So the question is should you throw a loaded gun out there knowing that the person to catch it might be a killer or just some one play acting?


Anyway reading this thread made me realise that end of the day if you get a lot of people who'll read and like your stuff it doesn't matter what the content is.

Amazingly lit doesn't like the word torture in it's tags. Go figure- wouldn't let me but nipple torture. One of these days imma write a nice and short CBT story (keep it as graphic as possible).

 

[subdued_passion]

And again, in your example it is an enjoyable fantasy, a erotic rape fantasy. Not rapist, no woman that I have ever met has fantasized about truly being raped. Keep in mind many women who are raped are beaten as well can't say I've run into anyone who gets off on wanting to be punched in the face.

When my sister was raped years ago the defense actually tried to say she "liked it rough" and her attacker obliged.

My sister had a broken jaw. I am sure she, or any other woman, has never masturbated at night thinking, "Oh God, it would be so hot to have my face beaten in, Oh, baby!"

But rapists do.

Double standard though because I remember being in court after I beat him half to death and smiling at the prosecutor and saying "I heard he liked it rough."

Somehow that was not seen as a valid defense in my case.

The way I see it a rape fantasy involves an anti-hero sure he's an asshole and not someone who would go down well in the romance section because he is a bit more than rough around the edges. But he is attractive or what he offers (even while he forces the woman into it) is attractive.

Being kicked in the stomach and then forcibly entering the woman while she is dry and enjoying the fact that he can feel her tearing is...??? Taking her anally by force and leaving her bleeding and then coming back and punching her around...
Ooooh, I know- smells like true love dunnit.

 

[lovecraft68]

Amazingly lit doesn't like the word torture in it's tags. Go figure- wouldn't let me but nipple torture. One of these days imma write a nice and short CBT story (keep it as graphic as possible).

Please attempt that brutal CBT story and let me know how you make out. I have good money that says it is rejected-unless you disguise it- men cannot be sexually tortured here, only women and that is a fact.

As for not allowing torture? Lit plays a funny game. The content can be just about anything you want(except the non consensual abuse of men or any harm coming to the sacred penis.) but you have to wrap it up pretty.

This is done so they can smile at the feds if certain material ever becomes illegal and shake their head and say "Gee, I had rules, guess they broke them"

Amazon does this. They said they would clean up "PI pseudo incest" they did by forbidding words like mommy daddy in titles covers and descriptions. But....if you simply write a vague description, use the word taboo and inside the book on the first page say "step son fucking step mommy" it flies because it cannot be seen from a casual glance.

That is what lit does with many things that is why we have their rarely if ever enforced rape rule. CYA wink wink nudge nudge.

 

[StrangeLife]

In studies it has been observed that one of the reasons women enjoy erotic rape fantasies is that they like to imagine themselves/ the victim being so attractive/ irresistible to the rapist that he just had to have them at any cost.

That is also why they enjoy shopping.

"The more I get him to range and rant about maxed-out credit cards, the more he wants me."

A form of "reverse rape" really...

 

[subdued_passion]

That is also why they enjoy shopping.

"The more I get him to range and rant about maxed-out credit cards, the more he wants me."

A form of "reverse rape" really...

Considering you can't hunt or gather, a good credit line is the littlest token of love we can expect from your lot.

 

[allamagione]

And again, in your example it is an enjoyable fantasy, a erotic rape fantasy. Not rapist, no woman that I have ever met has fantasized about truly being raped. Keep in mind many women who are raped are beaten as well can't say I've run into anyone who gets off on wanting to be punched in the face.

Being kicked in the stomach and then forcibly entering the woman while she is dry and enjoying the fact that he can feel her tearing is...??? Taking her anally by force and leaving her bleeding and then coming back and punching her around...
Ooooh, I know- smells like true love dunnit.

Have either of you ever read furrybert's "Hunted"? It's the 5th most favorited story on this site. It features physical violence and domestic abuse.

Have either of you ever read Christine Monson's 1984 bodice ripper Stormfire? In Chapter 1 the protagonist is kidnapped. In Chapter 2 she has a no-holds-barred physical confrontation with her captor, who proceeds to brutally rape her with the intention of causing her as much pain as possible.

I think society in general and men in particular can't handle the idea that women — who are suppose to be gentle, maternal, civilizing forces in society — fantasize about cruelty. But I'm here to tell you that they do. Normal women, even.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

men cannot be sexually tortured here, only women and that is a fact.

As for not allowing torture? Lit plays a funny game. The content can be just about anything you want(except the non consensual abuse of men or any harm coming to the sacred penis.) but you have to wrap it up pretty.

There is no such rule that says men cannot be sexually tortured. I have read dozens of such stories here. I have even submitted a few.

The castration part? Maybe. But who finds castration sexually arousing?

 

[subdued_passion]

Have either of you ever read furrybert's "Hunted"? It's the 5th most favorited story on this site. It features physical violence and domestic abuse.

I have and hence the question about what is allowed. There many other top rated ones that I haven't read because the comments themselves give a good idea of the content. I'm not squeamish I'm just a sadist who's realised that starvation is the best form of self control for me.

Do you have a gender break up of the people who liked the stories you mentioned? Why do you assume they're women?

I think society in general and men in particular can't handle the idea that women — who are suppose to be gentle, maternal, civilizing forces in society — fantasize about cruelty. But I'm here to tell you that they do. Normal women, even.

Women fantasize about cruel and brutal men who ultimately succumb to their magical vag. The fantasy is about their own desirability not about getting beaten and bruised.

Of course there are masochists who actually want that- but that is a very small section of women.

 

[allamagione]

Do you have a gender break up of the people who liked the stories you mentioned? Why do you assume they're women?

Of course there are masochists who actually want that- but that is a very small section of women.

Did you really just point out in one breath that I was making an assumption... and make an assumption in the next breath?

You show me yours, I'll show you mine.

 

[subdued_passion]

Did you really just point out in one breath that I was making an assumption... and make an assumption in the next breath?

You show me yours, I'll show you mine.

Masochism - The idea that women desire suffering. Women who engage in masochistic sex are more likely to have rape fantasies, but the great majority of women with rape fantasies do not want real rape. Accordingly, masochism may apply to only a small group of women.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psyched/200805/why-do-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies

That was from a basic search. I'm not going to search and link the studies now as it may look like confirmation bias to you.

And I don't need to see yours, it's okay.

 

[allamagione]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psyched/200805/why-do-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies

That was from a basic search. I'm not going to search and link the studies now as it may look like confirmation bias to you.

And I don't need to see yours, it's okay.

Masochism - The idea that women desire suffering. Women who engage in masochistic sex are more likely to have rape fantasies, but the great majority of women with rape fantasies do not want real rape. Accordingly, masochism may apply to only a small group of women.​

Not seeing a statistical breakdown here. I'm only seeing a "maybe." The researcher even points out how precarious this theory is, since women can have masochistic fantasies without being masochistic in reality.

 

[VenusButterflies]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psyched/200805/why-do-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies

That was from a basic search. I'm not going to search and link the studies now as it may look like confirmation bias to you.

And I don't need to see yours, it's okay.

I happen to be one of those masochists.

Is it about desirability? Sure. All sexual fantasies are partially about desirability.

I fantasize about cruel and brutal men who don't succumb to my magical vag, but claim it as their own. There's a difference. Does it make it any less magical? No. In fact, it probably makes it more magical if they want to claim it as their own.

I also have fantasies about being used violently. Again, I'm in control of those fantasies so my brain enforces limits without me having to think twice about it. But sometimes those fantasies are pretty brutal.

Do I want to be raped in real life? Not by someone I don't know, no. Has my boyfriend taken me forcefully despite my sincere protests that I wasn't in the mood? Yep. Did I like it? Yep.

This site wouldn't provide a good, representative sample of women with rape fantasies -- I imagine there are more women on this site who have similar fantasies to mine than you would find, say, walking into a mall. It would be unbalanced.

 

[subdued_passion]

Masochism - The idea that women desire suffering. Women who engage in masochistic sex are more likely to have rape fantasies, but the great majority of women with rape fantasies do not want real rape. Accordingly, masochism may apply to only a small group of women.​

Not seeing a statistical breakdown here. I'm only seeing a "maybe." The researcher even points out how precarious this theory is, since women can have masochistic fantasies without being masochistic in reality.

Follow the referenced links and download the PDF.

There are lots of rape fantasy studies out there- google and satisfy your curiosity at will.

You're going to find it very hard to prove that most women fantasize about getting brutalized and beaten.

 

[allamagione]

You're going to find it very hard to prove that most women fantasize about getting brutalized and beaten.

I agree. I didn't say that "most" women fantasize about being brutalized.

But when a man says something like this...

no woman that I have ever met has fantasized about truly being raped.

...I do feel the need to point out the possibility.

 

[VenusButterflies]

You're going to find it very hard to prove that most women fantasize about getting brutalized and beaten.

It also depends on how women imagine "brutalized and beaten." Some may think getting choked is being brutalized. For me, it's foreplay (and during . . .). Maybe others think getting spanked is toeing the line. I think submissive masochists would have a different idea of what that means than vanilla women.

 

[subdued_passion]

I happen to be one of those masochists.

Is it about desirability? Sure. All sexual fantasies are partially about desirability.

I fantasize about cruel and brutal men who don't succumb to my magical vag, but claim it as their own. There's a difference. Does it make it any less magical? No. In fact, it probably makes it more magical if they want to claim it as their own.

I also have fantasies about being used violently. Again, I'm in control of those fantasies so my brain enforces limits without me having to think twice about it. But sometimes those fantasies are pretty brutal.

Do I want to be raped in real life? Not by someone I don't know, no. Has my boyfriend taken me forcefully despite my sincere protests that I wasn't in the mood? Yep. Did I like it? Yep.

This site wouldn't provide a good, representative sample of women with rape fantasies -- I imagine there are more women on this site who have similar fantasies to mine than you would find, say, walking into a mall. It would be unbalanced.

This thread has now gone sideways. You don't need to justify your fantasies to me or anyone else.

But do you imagine being punched in the face and the ribs? Can you seriously say that what turns you on is the idea of someone using enough violence to cause you pain and hurt and bleeding?

(even masochists like pain only so far as it heightens the sensation of pleasure)


---------

I gotta go now. Dinner time. Happy weekend.

 

[VenusButterflies]

This thread has now gone sideways. You don't need to justify your fantasies to me or anyone else.

But do you imagine being punched in the face and the ribs? Can you seriously say that what turns you on is the idea of someone using enough violence to cause you pain and hurt and bleeding?

(even masochists like pain only so far as it heightens the sensation of pleasure)


---------

I gotta go now. Dinner time. Happy weekend.

I'm not justifying. I'm using myself as a more extreme example. Anecdotal evidence.

I like having my limits pushed, including my limit to endure pain. Do I want to get punched in the face? No. Has pain that's elicited nausea turned me on? Yes.

 

[allamagione]

This thread has now gone sideways. You don't need to justify your fantasies to me or anyone else.

But do you imagine being punched in the face and the ribs? Can you seriously say that what turns you on is the idea of someone using enough violence to cause you pain and hurt and bleeding?

(even masochists like pain only so far as it heightens the sensation of pleasure)

You previously mentioned Nancy Friday's classic, My Secret Garden. If you have a copy handy, go to "Room Number Four" and read Rose Ann's fantasy.

I would quote it here, but it's so violent that I'd fear being banned from the forums.

Yes, some women are "seriously" turned on by this. As absurd as it might seem.

 

[Hypoxia]

I figured out what GM is, what's GGG?

I assume it's "Good, Giving, and Game", a positive description for a relationship coined by sex advice columnist Dan Savage. (sez Wikipedia)

I was more puzzled by the acronym (used later in this thread) CBT. Yes, it's a comix format. It's also Cock'n'Balls Torture. Yow. Reminds me of a title plus first line I wrote a while back:

ROSES ARE RED, TOO - "What a lovely cock," she whispered, just before biting it off.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I assume it's "Good, Giving, and Game", a positive description for a relationship coined by sex advice columnist Dan Savage. (sez Wikipedia)

I was more puzzled by the acronym (used later in this thread) CBT. Yes, it's a comix format. It's also Cock'n'Balls Torture.

Also Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Very confusing when you're not sure which version people are talking about.

 

[Hypoxia]

Also Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Very confusing when you're not sure which version people are talking about.

So many acronyms. So little order. (SMA/SLO)

 

[squirrelzo]

I hate to be the one standing up for the Guns Dont Kill People, People Do argument, but that's what I think.

Like I said, NO proven connection between pornography and sexual violence. I say this as someone who greatly dislikes porn, at least the fake acted shit, and would love to see facts supporting the fantasy that violent rape fantasies lead to real rape. Doesnt hold up.

Ted Bundy tried to blame his pathology on porn. Very easy to do. And totally sidesteps the much more diffuse and entrenched cultural reasons for rape. Like male psychology, for instance. Its easier to think you can blame it on one identifiable thing. But where do the original fantasies come from?

For someone like Bundy predisposed to it, ANYTHING can be a trigger. Encountering a rape fantasy, perhaps, but also just seeing someone walking down the street who looks like your mother. Getting dumped. Anything.

The violence and misogyny was linked long ago.

The muddling of actual rape and actual sexual violence with the fact that violence is a common part of many "normal" eople's fantasies really bugs me. It does a disservice to both.

Power isn't the only motivator. Sometimes it's sadism, anger, sexual frustration, psychopathy, flawed ethical standards, law (eg Inida where marital rape is legal), socio-biology (some individuals have not evolved) and some others that I'm missing.



Yes, the most common form of rape is where the victim knows her assailant. And yes it is a crime of opportunity. But that does not mean that the person went from 0 on the scale of violence to a 100 just because he got the chance to do so. At the end of the day for most people to do something you need to already be predisposed to it. Everything else that happens is just a trigger.

So the question is should you throw a loaded gun out there knowing that the person to catch it might be a killer or just some one play acting?


Anyway reading this thread made me realise that end of the day if you get a lot of people who'll read and like your stuff it doesn't matter what the content is.

Amazingly lit doesn't like the word torture in it's tags. Go figure- wouldn't let me but nipple torture. One of these days imma write a nice and short CBT story (keep it as graphic as possible).

 

[PervOtaku]

Rapist fantasy? pure and simple no enjoyment at all. The sexual thrill is the humiliation, pain and suffering of the victim. There are no forced orgasms no "Oh, Oh, damn that is good!" Nothing but pain. True rapist fantasy is a predominantly male trait and again its about making women pay for whatever reason and inflicting pain, both emotional and physical, they get off more on pain than the act of sex.

This is what we've always heard, real rape is about power more than sex, rape for the sake of violation since it's the greatest violation. I recently did some, uh... story research on google. I saw several things where rapists said they really were just after sex, they believed they were entitled to it and shouldn't have to bother with the whole getting a woman to want to sleep with you thing. I recall the phrase "real man" coming up a few times, like some kind of macho thing where the guys think girls ought to be throwing themselves at them, and when it doesn't happen they just go take what they "deserve".

I also found an article that was about a reddit thread where rapists were invited to talk about their motivations. One of the things that stood out to the article's author was guys having drunken hookups with girls at parties (frathouse type things) and not being cognizant that the girl wasn't into it. Several of these guys expressed feeling a lot of guilt at what they did after they sobered up. One guy felt guilty even though he stopped as soon as he saw the look on her face. In the comments this rapidly devolved into the usual "rape culture" stuff, with the "the man is always 100% guilty" side and the "hey, rape is bad, yeah, but shit happens when that much alcohol is involved and it wouldn't be a bad thing if girls learned to avoid these situations a little" side. Including one girl that was forced to have sex at a drunken party but hesitated to call it rape because she was pretty sure that in her drunken stupor she never actually asked the guy to stop.

I guess the point is the motivations of a rapist aren't black and white either. There are no doubt a multitude of reasons that drives a rapist, just as the circumstances of rape also vary wildly.

There are lots of studies that show that rape fantasies in women are more common than may think. I remember reading a study once by an evolutionary biologist that proposed that these fantasies are an evolutionary adaptation because rape has been prevalent throughout human history. I won't go all GB and post 20 links here, as the point I'm making is that, yes, I am aware that rape fantasies exist, that they are highly prevalent, and that they are not wrong.

That's very interesting, and I find it very plausible. If you think about the 50 Shades of Gray phenomenon, with the mainstream release of the book allowing housewives access to it and them finding that they really get off on it (despite 50 Shades being one of the worst written BDSM novels in memory), it's pretty clear that a lot of women want men to have power over them in the bedroom, to the point that it really does seem like one of those things that is inherent to gender (on a general basis, not universally of course) due to evolutionary gender roles (which are now largely obsolete since human life is now vastly different than the circumstances that drove our evolution, but they remain powerful forces in the human psyche).

You previously mentioned Nancy Friday's classic, My Secret Garden. If you have a copy handy, go to "Room Number Four" and read Rose Ann's fantasy.

I would quote it here, but it's so violent that I'd fear being banned from the forums.

Yes, some women are "seriously" turned on by this. As absurd as it might seem.

First time I've heard of this book. The wikipedia article on it alone is pretty hot.

I wrote the following recently on another forum in a thread on rape fantasy. Several of the points have already been raised here but I figure why not:

Sex is a pretty primal thing. A lot of what I've read about BDSM implies that submissive girls often have trouble letting their inhibitions get in the way of really fun sex, but if they turn over their will to a master, they are no longer to blame for what they enjoy, they are just being obedient. Some girls actually are painsluts, where the pain itself helps them get off. Some girls enjoy bondage, where they are quite explicitly physically helpless but trust that they are not in danger.

I suspect another facet is the macho man stereotype, which modern society tends to look down upon but basically has a lot of roots in evolutionary biology. The man is stronger. Girls like bad boys. A real man takes what he wants. It's easy to take these to extremes that aren't good for civilized society, but as a sexual turn-on you can see how a lot of women might regress to such base concepts. (And really, there's no accounting for a lot of sexual fetishes, compared to some you could name, the fantasy of being taken by a man is downright logical.) Also, of course, the idea that a really attractive woman makes a man lose control of himself. Usually that just means he turns into a blithering idiot around pretty girls, but taken to the extreme it means the man will go to any lengths to fuck her, whether that means offer her a million dollars or break into her house and put a knife to her throat. The rape fantasy can imply a related fantasy that the woman possesses that degree of desirability.

Of course this is all done vicariously, from a position of safety and zero uncertainty. Rape stories. Rape roleplay by phone sex or cyber sex. Even if it's rape play via genuine sex, proper BDSM protocols with prediscussed limits and a safeword are observed.

Simulated danger is a rush. Roller coasters, skydiving, bungie jumping, paintball combat, horror movies. Rape play. Rape is the most personal and most extreme violation that can be done to a person, so it follows that rape fantasy or rape roleplay can be one of the most extreme expressions of simulated danger. Nobody wants to be in real danger though. Fake risk is enjoyable, real risk might not end the good way.

Also note that the rape fantasy is just the extreme case of the much more widespread theme of bored housewives wishing their husbands would occasionally do just a fraction of the kind of sexual domination they've been reading about in Fifty Shades.

 

[PennLady]

That's very interesting, and I find it very plausible. If you think about the 50 Shades of Gray phenomenon, with the mainstream release of the book allowing housewives access to it and them finding that they really get off on it (despite 50 Shades being one of the worst written BDSM novels in memory), it's pretty clear that a lot of women want men to have power over them in the bedroom, to the point that it really does seem like one of those things that is inherent to gender (on a general basis, not universally of course) due to evolutionary gender roles (which are now largely obsolete since human life is now vastly different than the circumstances that drove our evolution, but they remain powerful forces in the human psyche).

I don't know that it means women want men to have power over them in the bedroom. Certainly some do. I remember a couple of years ago hearing the other moms discuss 50SOG as we attended our kids' little league games. One woman said what sounded best to her was leaving all the decisions to someone else, and she wasn't really talking about the sex. Having someone provide your food (she was mostly joking about dieting, I think), clothes, etc., can sound really nice after days of chasing your kids around making tons of decisions all day.

And I think it was Stella Omega (maybe) who pointed out that at base with 50SOG, what you have is a story where a guy pays tons of attention to a woman, who desires her immensely, and that's appealing too, in the general sense. So there are lots of things at play with those stories I think, and a lot of it doesn't have all that much to do with the sex.

In fact what I got from the reaction was not so much that the women wanted that kind of sex -- BDSM -- but that they hadn't read such a thing and there was a bit of a thrill of the forbidden. I'm sure lots of people went out and tried the actual sex stuff, but there was more there than just that that appealed to a lot of women.

Disclaimer: I've never been able to read the books. They're just ... horrid.

---

I too have seen the "rape is not about sex" line all over the place. But it must be at least a little bit about sex since rape is a sexual act. Seems to me the sex is more a means to an end.