NonCon related question

[allamagione]

Simulated danger is a rush. Roller coasters, skydiving, bungie jumping, paintball combat, horror movies. Rape play. Rape is the most personal and most extreme violation that can be done to a person, so it follows that rape fantasy or rape roleplay can be one of the most extreme expressions of simulated danger. Nobody wants to be in real danger though. Fake risk is enjoyable, real risk might not end the good way.

I think this is part of the appeal for me. I get scared when I read fictional portrayals of violent sex. My adrenaline starts pumping as though I were in the victim's place. I imagine their horror and pain and helplessness, and it turns me on. I don't know why because fear and pain are not turn-ons for me in real life. I can't even watch horror movies. But write it down and sexualize it, and I'm a puddle.

I highly recommend My Secret Garden!

 

[HeyAll]

Women with rape fantasies are the same as men with fantasies of killing people (in movies or video games).

It's the same thing as far as I'm concerned.

It's all fantasy. Men love watching violent movies and playing video games. That's great. It's titillating and mentally stimulating entertainment. Rape fantasies are the sexual equivalent.

 

[squirrelzo]

Which is why the made-up term "rapist fantasy" is both wrong and misleading.

I guess the point is the motivations of a rapist aren't black and white either. There are no doubt a multitude of reasons that drives a rapist, just as the circumstances of rape also vary wildly..

 

[subdued_passion]

I'm not justifying. I'm using myself as a more extreme example. Anecdotal evidence.

I like having my limits pushed, including my limit to endure pain. Do I want to get punched in the face? No. Has pain that's elicited nausea turned me on? Yes.

Fear and pain being used to heighten pleasure is like the blade of the knife being run against your nipples or clit.
Tell me how much you'll enjoy it if I just cut your nipple off and make you chew on that piece of flesh.

I don't think you understand what is it we're actually arguing about here.

You previously mentioned Nancy Friday's classic, My Secret Garden. If you have a copy handy, go to "Room Number Four" and read Rose Ann's fantasy.

I would quote it here, but it's so violent that I'd fear being banned from the forums.

Yes, some women are "seriously" turned on by this. As absurd as it might seem.

I had the book as a kid, not any more. Post the link, this is an unmoderated forum, provided it doesn't have underage content no one will ban you.

 

[subdued_passion]

I assume it's "Good, Giving, and Game", a positive description for a relationship coined by sex advice columnist Dan Savage. (sez Wikipedia)

I was more puzzled by the acronym (used later in this thread) CBT. Yes, it's a comix format. It's also Cock'n'Balls Torture. Yow. Reminds me of a title plus first line I wrote a while back:

ROSES ARE RED, TOO - "What a lovely cock," she whispered, just before biting it off.

Thank you. I still don't understand what it means so I guess I'll have to google at some point.

As far as CBT goes, Ann has a rather nice thread in the GB with some graphic pics and vids.

Also Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Very confusing when you're not sure which version people are talking about.

CBT also means Computer Based Training but I'd like to think that given the context of my post no one mistook it for that.

 

[subdued_passion]

I hate to be the one standing up for the Guns Dont Kill People, People Do argument, but that's what I think.

Like I said, NO proven connection between pornography and sexual violence. I say this as someone who greatly dislikes porn, at least the fake acted shit, and would love to see facts supporting the fantasy that violent rape fantasies lead to real rape. Doesnt hold up.

Ted Bundy tried to blame his pathology on porn. Very easy to do. And totally sidesteps the much more diffuse and entrenched cultural reasons for rape. Like male psychology, for instance. Its easier to think you can blame it on one identifiable thing. But where do the original fantasies come from?

For someone like Bundy predisposed to it, ANYTHING can be a trigger. Encountering a rape fantasy, perhaps, but also just seeing someone walking down the street who looks like your mother. Getting dumped. Anything.

The violence and misogyny was linked long ago.

The muddling of actual rape and actual sexual violence with the fact that violence is a common part of many "normal" eople's fantasies really bugs me. It does a disservice to both.

Even though you quoted me your post leads me to believe that you didn't really read my post.

Power isn't the only motivator. Sometimes it's sadism, anger, sexual frustration, psychopathy, flawed ethical standards, law (eg Inida where marital rape is legal), socio-biology (some individuals have not evolved) and some others that I'm missing.


Yes, the most common form of rape is where the victim knows her assailant. And yes it is a crime of opportunity. But that does not mean that the person went from 0 on the scale of violence to a 100 just because he got the chance to do so. At the end of the day for most people to do something you need to already be predisposed to it. Everything else that happens is just a trigger.

So the question is should you throw a loaded gun out there knowing that the person to catch it might be a killer or just some one play acting?

Anyway the purpose of this thread wasn't to discuss the validity of rape fantasies but rather to distinguish between what is acceptable as a rape fantasy on this site.

And to address your post, you have stated that there is no proven connection between pornography and sexual violence; can you please share your thoughts on the link between pornography and desensitization?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I come to this late.

The essential problem people have with rape is, it feels good. So people think theyre betrayed by their bodies, tho its natural for our bodies to respond in ways our minds dislike. Plenty of women are drawn to places where rape is common.

I enjoy physical violence. I'm getting too old to brawl but I usta enjoy it a lot. My brain knows violence is dangerous and risky, but it feels good to release all that stress into another man's face or head or gut. I learned to stay away from encoun ters where violence was likely, tho working in a psychiatric hospital was paradise cuz the drunks and crazies invite it.

 

[subdued_passion]

I guess the point is the motivations of a rapist aren't black and white either. There are no doubt a multitude of reasons that drives a rapist, just as the circumstances of rape also vary wildly.

Power isn't the only motivator. Sometimes it's sadism, anger, sexual frustration, psychopathy, flawed ethical standards, law (eg Inida where marital rape is legal), socio-biology (some individuals have not evolved) and some others that I'm missing.

I haven't read 50 shades and after everything I heard about it I'm not inclined to either.

I too have seen the "rape is not about sex" line all over the place. But it must be at least a little bit about sex since rape is a sexual act. Seems to me the sex is more a means to an end.

There was a rather controversial theory put forth a decade ago by a couple of scientists that rape was a mating strategy and it was really about sex and not power as first suggested by feminist scholar Susan Brownmiller.

From evo-bio point of view it makes a lot of sense though it was debunked by evo-psych as poor science.

Fair to say that it does not apply to all cases but sometimes it is just about sex. (And another reason to lobby for the legalization of prostitution IMO).

 

[subdued_passion]

I come to this late.

The essential problem people have with rape is, it feels good. So people think theyre betrayed by their bodies, tho its natural for our bodies to respond in ways our minds dislike. Plenty of women are drawn to places where rape is common.

I enjoy physical violence. I'm getting too old to brawl but I usta enjoy it a lot. My brain knows violence is dangerous and risky, but it feels good to release all that stress into another man's face or head or gut. I learned to stay away from encoun ters where violence was likely, tho working in a psychiatric hospital was paradise cuz the drunks and crazies invite it.

You're not late. This thread was never about the legitimacy of rape fantasies but rather the content of these fantasies and what is deemed acceptable by this site.

(Does this mean I'm off iggy? Should I bust out a nana?)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The meaning of anything is the outcome you get. Rape stimulates ovulation, just as child-birth does.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You're not late. This thread was never about the legitimacy of rape fantasies but rather the content of these fantasies and what is deemed acceptable by this site.

(Does this mean I'm off iggy? Should I bust out a nana?)

The real question is how to kiss Laurels ass good enough.

 

[lovecraft68]

This is what we've always heard, real rape is about power more than sex, rape for the sake of violation since it's the greatest violation. I recently did some, uh... story research on google. I saw several things where rapists said they really were just after sex, they believed they were entitled to it and shouldn't have to bother with the whole getting a woman to want to sleep with you thing. I recall the phrase "real man" coming up a few times, like some kind of macho thing where the guys think girls ought to be throwing themselves at them, and when it doesn't happen they just go take what they "deserve".

I also found an article that was about a reddit thread where rapists were invited to talk about their motivations. One of the things that stood out to the article's author was guys having drunken hookups with girls at parties (frathouse type things) and not being cognizant that the girl wasn't into it. Several of these guys expressed feeling a lot of guilt at what they did after they sobered up. One guy felt guilty even though he stopped as soon as he saw the look on her face. In the comments this rapidly devolved into the usual "rape culture" stuff, with the "the man is always 100% guilty" side and the "hey, rape is bad, yeah, but shit happens when that much alcohol is involved and it wouldn't be a bad thing if girls learned to avoid these situations a little" side. Including one girl that was forced to have sex at a drunken party but hesitated to call it rape because she was pretty sure that in her drunken stupor she never actually asked the guy to stop.

I guess the point is the motivations of a rapist aren't black and white either. There are no doubt a multitude of reasons that drives a rapist, just as the circumstances of rape also vary wildly.



That's very interesting, and I find it very plausible. If you think about the 50 Shades of Gray phenomenon, with the mainstream release of the book allowing housewives access to it and them finding that they really get off on it (despite 50 Shades being one of the worst written BDSM novels in memory), it's pretty clear that a lot of women want men to have power over them in the bedroom, to the point that it really does seem like one of those things that is inherent to gender (on a general basis, not universally of course) due to evolutionary gender roles (which are now largely obsolete since human life is now vastly different than the circumstances that drove our evolution, but they remain powerful forces in the human psyche).



First time I've heard of this book. The wikipedia article on it alone is pretty hot.

I wrote the following recently on another forum in a thread on rape fantasy. Several of the points have already been raised here but I figure why not:

Sex is a pretty primal thing. A lot of what I've read about BDSM implies that submissive girls often have trouble letting their inhibitions get in the way of really fun sex, but if they turn over their will to a master, they are no longer to blame for what they enjoy, they are just being obedient. Some girls actually are painsluts, where the pain itself helps them get off. Some girls enjoy bondage, where they are quite explicitly physically helpless but trust that they are not in danger.

I suspect another facet is the macho man stereotype, which modern society tends to look down upon but basically has a lot of roots in evolutionary biology. The man is stronger. Girls like bad boys. A real man takes what he wants. It's easy to take these to extremes that aren't good for civilized society, but as a sexual turn-on you can see how a lot of women might regress to such base concepts. (And really, there's no accounting for a lot of sexual fetishes, compared to some you could name, the fantasy of being taken by a man is downright logical.) Also, of course, the idea that a really attractive woman makes a man lose control of himself. Usually that just means he turns into a blithering idiot around pretty girls, but taken to the extreme it means the man will go to any lengths to fuck her, whether that means offer her a million dollars or break into her house and put a knife to her throat. The rape fantasy can imply a related fantasy that the woman possesses that degree of desirability.

Of course this is all done vicariously, from a position of safety and zero uncertainty. Rape stories. Rape roleplay by phone sex or cyber sex. Even if it's rape play via genuine sex, proper BDSM protocols with prediscussed limits and a safeword are observed.

Simulated danger is a rush. Roller coasters, skydiving, bungie jumping, paintball combat, horror movies. Rape play. Rape is the most personal and most extreme violation that can be done to a person, so it follows that rape fantasy or rape roleplay can be one of the most extreme expressions of simulated danger. Nobody wants to be in real danger though. Fake risk is enjoyable, real risk might not end the good way.

Also note that the rape fantasy is just the extreme case of the much more widespread theme of bored housewives wishing their husbands would occasionally do just a fraction of the kind of sexual domination they've been reading about in Fifty Shades.

First isn't wonderful that the net provides enough anonymity for rapists to discuss their hobbies

2nd unless its the woman raping the man(rare, but can happen)

It is always the man's fault. Always. I am sick and tired of hearing the "cock teasing" theory. No, is no whether its at a party and the guy is inviting her back to his place or if he is at her place and after making out some she says; okay stop.

I don't care if she is naked. No, is no.

Plenty of people, plenty of them are just begging for a beating by being ignorant or rude, or doing shitty things to people. But if you beat them who commits the crime? You do.

If someone stands in your face and calls you names and insults your wife or says other antagonizing bullshit if you hit him, who commits the crime? You do

The excuse in court of "well he asked for it" does not stand up.

But a rapist saying she asked for it gets a lot of credence doesn't it? IN many rape trials even the ones where the rapist ultimately goes to jail there is a point in that trial where she was"asking for it"

My point is rape is the man's fault period. The only exception is statutory where the girl may have lied about her age and that is the only case I feel for some of the guys unless of course the girl looked 14 and the guy did not care.

Rape is a crime for a reason. Murder is the murderers fault. Assault is the fault of the person throwing the punches.

It does not matter how much a person has been antagonized verbally ina fight or cock teased ina rape, the person who lays his hands on the other person's body without consent is guilty.

The its not always the man's fault is the "real man" theory and rape culture and anything else you want to call it wrapped into one.

We think we're a civilized country when it comes to this. We're a far cry from India and most of the middle east where rape is all but encouraged to the point we get quotes from the police of "what was she doing on that bus" after that horrific gang rape in India where the girl eventually died.

But look at that date rape gang rape with the HS football players in Ohio, they got off light at a couple of years a piece jail waise, but their lives and possible football careers are over and know what? Half that city was mad at that girl and even the judge who gave them the time.

Guess that was her fault wasn't it? Silly her going to a party and having a drink, stupid kid

I've been in rape trials I know how they work. I've been in domestic assault trials I know how they work and its disgusting

Almost as disgusting as a thread full of people doing waht they always do on the net and that is quoting articles and "I heard and I read and so and so says"

I've lived it. I live it. So give me a fucking break "Its not always the man's fault" think that if God forbid its ever your daughter or wife or anyone close to you. Post back to me then and please go check Reddit maybe her rapist will be posting on it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

First isn't wonderful that the net provides enough anonymity for rapists to discuss their hobbies

2nd unless its the woman raping the man(rare, but can happen)

It is always the man's fault. Always. I am sick and tired of hearing the "cock teasing" theory. No, is no whether its at a party and the guy is inviting her back to his place or if he is at her place and after making out some she says; okay stop.

I don't care if she is naked. No, is no.

Plenty of people, plenty of them are just begging for a beating by being ignorant or rude, or doing shitty things to people. But if you beat them who commits the crime? You do.

If someone stands in your face and calls you names and insults your wife or says other antagonizing bullshit if you hit him, who commits the crime? You do

The excuse in court of "well he asked for it" does not stand up.

But a rapist saying she asked for it gets a lot of credence doesn't it? IN many rape trials even the ones where the rapist ultimately goes to jail there is a point in that trial where she was"asking for it"

My point is rape is the man's fault period. The only exception is statutory where the girl may have lied about her age and that is the only case I feel for some of the guys unless of course the girl looked 14 and the guy did not care.

Rape is a crime for a reason. Murder is the murderers fault. Assault is the fault of the person throwing the punches.

It does not matter how much a person has been antagonized verbally ina fight or cock teased ina rape, the person who lays his hands on the other person's body without consent is guilty.

The its not always the man's fault is the "real man" theory and rape culture and anything else you want to call it wrapped into one.

We think we're a civilized country when it comes to this. We're a far cry from India and most of the middle east where rape is all but encouraged to the point we get quotes from the police of "what was she doing on that bus" after that horrific gang rape in India where the girl eventually died.

But look at that date rape gang rape with the HS football players in Ohio, they got off light at a couple of years a piece jail waise, but their lives and possible football careers are over and know what? Half that city was mad at that girl and even the judge who gave them the time.

Guess that was her fault wasn't it? Silly her going to a party and having a drink, stupid kid

I've been in rape trials I know how they work. I've been in domestic assault trials I know how they work and its disgusting

Almost as disgusting as a thread full of people doing waht they always do on the net and that is quoting articles and "I heard and I read and so and so says"

I've lived it. I live it. So give me a fucking break "Its not always the man's fault" think that if God forbid its ever your daughter or wife or anyone close to you. Post back to me then and please go check Reddit maybe her rapist will be posting on it.

Son, youre incredibly naïve about females.

 

[allamagione]

I had the book as a kid, not any more. Post the link, this is an unmoderated forum, provided it doesn't have underage content no one will ban you.

I don't want to risk it. I'll give you the gist. This woman fantasizes about having her limbs stretched at the same time she is being violently penetrated by a grotesquely enormous phallus, to the point that she can hear her skin tearing and her bones breaking.

The one immediately following it is even gorier. It contains ritual sacrifice.

The notion that women do not have masturbatory fantasies about violence is false.

And frankly, I find that notion a bit insulting. The subtle message, whether intended or not, is: These fantasies are absurd/abnormal/wrong. False again. They might not be common, but they're not any of those other things.

Bringing the discussion back to what's acceptable on this site... If people do have these fantasies, then stories that toe the line of what's publishable — assuming they get through the censorship process — will be highly rated, favorited, commented on. Commenters will praise their edginess. E.g. furrybert's "Hunted".

What is acceptable is decided on a case-by-case basis. If you want to write something that pushes the limits, write it and submit it. It might or might not get posted. If you find something objectionable, you can report it. The owner might or might not take it down. It's her site. That's her right.

I've lived it. I live it. So give me a fucking break "Its not always the man's fault" think that if God forbid its ever your daughter or wife or anyone close to you. Post back to me then and please go check Reddit maybe her rapist will be posting on it.

You assume that women with rape fantasies have never been raped. False again.

 

[subdued_passion]

The meaning of anything is the outcome you get. Rape stimulates ovulation, just as child-birth does.

Hence the mating strategy theory.

The real question is how to kiss Laurels ass good enough.

I'm guessing this is one How To you wouldn't know how to...

Son, youre incredibly naïve about females.

I wish we had more naive men like that in this world.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Hence the mating strategy theory.




I'm guessing this is one How To you wouldn't know how to...




I wish we had more naive men like that in this world.

If I go in the woods behind my house to fish I already know theres plenty of snakes and alligators there. So its not a revelation when I see them. No WHO KNEW! moments. My wife says LC is naïve. He's not reality based.

 

[PervOtaku]

First isn't wonderful that the net provides enough anonymity for rapists to discuss their hobbies

2nd unless its the woman raping the man(rare, but can happen)

It is always the man's fault. Always. I am sick and tired of hearing the "cock teasing" theory. No, is no whether its at a party and the guy is inviting her back to his place or if he is at her place and after making out some she says; okay stop.

I don't care if she is naked. No, is no.

Plenty of people, plenty of them are just begging for a beating by being ignorant or rude, or doing shitty things to people. But if you beat them who commits the crime? You do.

If someone stands in your face and calls you names and insults your wife or says other antagonizing bullshit if you hit him, who commits the crime? You do

The excuse in court of "well he asked for it" does not stand up.

But a rapist saying she asked for it gets a lot of credence doesn't it? IN many rape trials even the ones where the rapist ultimately goes to jail there is a point in that trial where she was"asking for it"

My point is rape is the man's fault period. The only exception is statutory where the girl may have lied about her age and that is the only case I feel for some of the guys unless of course the girl looked 14 and the guy did not care.

Rape is a crime for a reason. Murder is the murderers fault. Assault is the fault of the person throwing the punches.

It does not matter how much a person has been antagonized verbally ina fight or cock teased ina rape, the person who lays his hands on the other person's body without consent is guilty.

The its not always the man's fault is the "real man" theory and rape culture and anything else you want to call it wrapped into one.

We think we're a civilized country when it comes to this. We're a far cry from India and most of the middle east where rape is all but encouraged to the point we get quotes from the police of "what was she doing on that bus" after that horrific gang rape in India where the girl eventually died.

But look at that date rape gang rape with the HS football players in Ohio, they got off light at a couple of years a piece jail waise, but their lives and possible football careers are over and know what? Half that city was mad at that girl and even the judge who gave them the time.

Guess that was her fault wasn't it? Silly her going to a party and having a drink, stupid kid

I've been in rape trials I know how they work. I've been in domestic assault trials I know how they work and its disgusting

Almost as disgusting as a thread full of people doing waht they always do on the net and that is quoting articles and "I heard and I read and so and so says"

I've lived it. I live it. So give me a fucking break "Its not always the man's fault" think that if God forbid its ever your daughter or wife or anyone close to you. Post back to me then and please go check Reddit maybe her rapist will be posting on it.

Well, point of order, this wasn't about girls that said "no" or otherwise resisted and the guy didn't stop, it wasn't about guys that held the girl down while they took turns on her, it wasn't about cock teasing girls that were "asking for it", it wasn't even really about girls pulling the "rape" ploy because she banged a guy and then regretted it. The article was specifically focusing on guys who related instances where they initially thought they were scoring a consensual drunken frat party hook-up and realized before, during, or afterwards that the girl was not in fact into it after all, and for the most part expressed tremendous regret and guilt over what happened. The dichotomy between people saying "Okay yes, I can see this happening in a typical drunken frat party environment" and the people that were making these kids out to be no different than serial rapists who grab women off the street, drag them into an alley, and hold a knife to their throat while raping them, was a very interesting thing to behold. As was the dichotomy between people that suggested girls should maybe not drink so much if they don't want to be surprised about what they find themselves doing and whose bed they wake up in, and the people that decried this advice as victim blaming. The point was raised that oversexed college age boys, especially while drunk, are probably pretty bad at reading female signals. Oversexed college age girls, especially while drunk, are not necessarily fonts of wisdom and good behavior either. After all, we are talking frat parties here, the type of thing were kids get killed accidentally falling out of windows because they are so drunk off their asses. Kids banging when neither of them is really in control of themselves or is fully conscious of what's going on is no doubt par for the course.

The larger point being that yes, rape is always bad, and I would never say that rapes don't happen or aren't real, but as with all things there is a certain small window of circumstances where things are occasionally not so black and white. (Although in the world of fictional porn, situations that are clearly defined probably play best to the audience.)