OK. I'll jump right in. Why is rape given special status as a crime?

[AchtungNight]

I didn't have any intention of denigrating your coping mechanisms. But you did not originally (in the physical to which I responded) present them ad your coping mechanisms.
Your first post included the sentence I quoted, and your framing "no longer" "let" the rape h

Ok. Thx for your clarification. I agree I chose poor words.

It is true that no one would want such an event to happen to them. And hopefully it won’t in the future. What I suggested is one way to prevent it in the future. If you don’t think it will work for you, fine. Just know that it has for me.

 

[Altissimus]

I'm female.

Okay.

 

[HordHolm]

It's not illegal to create or publish that material in written form. Last time I checked, nobody had dragged Stephen King out of his house in chains for that not enough PG and too much 13 scene in "It". Incest in the real world is almost always non-consensual and frequently illegal — yet it's the biggest category here and glorifies the shit out of it. Therefore, it's personal preference and not the legality of the act.

Going on and on about the legality of the act in the real world throws fuel on the fire of people railing against the under 18 rule on Lit. "But I'm from XcountryX and 16 is legal here!"

Speculating about the reasoning Laurel has for her personal preference may be an interesting intellectual exercise, but when it comes down to it, the only answer that truly matters and doesn't open the door to annoying arguments from people attempting to circumvent the rules is "It's my house! If you don't like it, you can get the fuck out!"

1) At what point did I say that it was illegal to write rape literature? Strawman.
2) Non-consensual/under-18 incest will surely get rejected because it is non-consensual and/or under-18, not because it is incest in and of itself. Just as, in fact, in the real world I can fuck my mother (no matter that the idea is disgusting) provided we both consent, so it can be found on Lit provided it isn't a sexual crime. I'm sure there are places it is illegal, but I could only perhaps speculate where, and my speculation wouldn't include the liberal democracies virtually all readers of Lit probably live in.
3) I mention that there are places in the world where the age of consent is different from that in the United States not to throw any fuel on any fucking fire, but to illustrate why the rule is what it is on Lit. My comment hardly made that difficult to understand.
4) Yes, Laurel sets the rules. But the rules about sexual crimes being used for sexual gratification on Lit aren't hard to understand. Those rules do not impact the law, and how or what an author can write under the law, and are a private matter for Lit. This much is obvious.

 

[Omenainen]

I have thought it through. And I still hold it. Shame me if you like. Then think about whether I might be right.

Victims, monsters, and heroes are facts of life. They exist. I know because I have been all three. I know which I prefer.

Oh and you have one thing wrong. I’m not saying it -would not- have happened. I’m saying it -might not-. Then I’m asking you to improve the odds so they’re in your favor. Get it now?

And I’m not blaming the victim for their own past trauma. I’m challenging them to make it more difficult for a possible perp- who is of course still to blame- next time it might happen. They can take that as they will.

This is rooted on the idea that the victim has some control over what happens to them, because it makes it psychologically easier to think that there is some control. Because then you can distance yourself by thinking “oh, that’s awful, but that wouldn’t happen to me (or my sister/daughter/wife), because…”

I could argue that I have made the right decisions and made it statistically less likely to be a victim of a mass shooting by not living in the US. That should invoke a reaction in anyone living in the US, and that is the clearest point I can make against victim blaming.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I will point out that it's one of the few crimes where you have to actually prove you were the victim of it. People just kinda believe mugging victims by default.

With rape there's this added humiliation of having to prove you didn't do anything that provoked the attack. Which is why it's one of the most underrated reported crimes.

I've been mugged, it sucks, it's not an intrusive crime. I didn't have to convince anyone that I wasn't flashing money around to draw the attention of muggers. I wasn't asked if I was walking around with expensive jewelry on display. I wasn't asked if I was sure I didn't misunderstand the situation. Wasn't asked if it was a transactional regret after the fact, either.

Rape is treated at a different level because the people who do it know the burden of proof is on their victim. Not everyone is strong enough to go through the accusations and ridicule that come with making a claim. Some even have family members and friends talk them out of it to avoid destroying the rapists life.

No one does that to a mugging victim. It's just accepted as having happened.

So. It's treated different because the people investigating it treat it differently. They react to it differently. The evidence gathering is a second assault on your body that many can't endure so their rapist gets away with it. Muggings don't require the additional humiliation of having to strip down in front of strangers so photos can be taken and swabs can be collected. The humiliation of knowing everyone who sees those photos are judging whether or not they think you're fuckable enough to be raped. Juries included.

A mugging doesn't leave you laid bare in order to even have a hope of a chance at justice that will likely never come.

Thank you for posting that.
You are so very right...
Well done you. I appreciate everything you said.

Cagivagurl

 

[AchtungNight]

This is rooted on the idea that the victim has some control over what happens to them, because it makes it psychologically easier to think that there is some control. Because then you can distance yourself by thinking “oh, that’s awful, but that wouldn’t happen to me (or my sister/daughter/wife), because…”

I could argue that I have made the right decisions and made it statistically less likely to be a victim of a mass shooting by not living in the US. That should invoke a reaction in anyone living in the US, and that is the clearest point I can make against victim blaming.

I understand. Thank you.

I hope all people concerned about mass shootings in the US will go see films like Home Room and The Life Before Her Eyes and encourage their relatives and friends to do the same. These films show mass shootings from a victim’s perspective same as The Accused does for rape.

 

[jaF0]

OP needs to spend some time at a shelter for these victims and interact with them.

 

[jaF0]

I hope all people concerned about mass shootings in the US will go see films like Home Room and The Life Before Her Eyes and encourage their relatives and friends to do the same. These films show mass shootings from a victim’s perspective same as The Accused does for rape.

That's another whole thread. The entertainment industry as a whole need to do more of that. At one time there was a move on .... on victim, one funeral ... that sought to show the after effects on the families. It didn't go far.

 

[onehitwanda]

Wow. Wow.

 

[HordHolm]

Wow. Wow.

Indeed.

 

[AlexBailey]

It’s a violation of more than just property or physical pain.

And that is what?

I sincerely hope many of the responses on this thread have helped fill in this ‘blank’ for you. If not I recommend you do some self reflection and soul searching.

This may be a good place to start:


https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/blog/2020/07/10/what-is-empathy-disorder

From the article:

“What is empathy deficit disorder?​

Lacking the ability to feel, understand and resonate with another’s feelings is categorised as empathy deficit disorder (EDD). This results in difficulty forming and maintaining relationships for both the individual who lacks empathy and potential friends and loved ones. It depends on the cause of empathy deficit disorder, but the condition may affect individual types of empathy, or it may affect all of them together. In general, though, affective empathy is often more affected.

The disorder can be prevalent in certain types of mental health conditions too, such as narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders, bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorders, and people who are on the autistic spectrum.

A person who lives with empathy deficit disorder often lives with the belief that their needs, desires and expectations are of utmost importance, and those of even their closest family, are irrelevant.”

 

[AwkwardlySet]

115 posts.
By my count, it is time for a new ratings thread with at least 87 posts, and after that, it is time for a new LW BTB topic.

No need to thank me, someone has to pay attention to proper order and structure around here...

 

[Levorotatory]

“What is empathy deficit disorder?
Lacking the ability to feel, understand and resonate with another’s feelings is categorised as empathy deficit disorder (EDD). This results in difficulty forming and maintaining relationships for both the individual who lacks empathy and potential friends and loved ones. It depends on the cause of empathy deficit disorder, but the condition may affect individual types of empathy, or it may affect all of them together. In general, though, affective empathy is often more affected.

The disorder can be prevalent in certain types of mental health conditions too, such as narcissistic and antisocial personality disorders, bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorders, and people who are on the autistic spectrum.

A person who lives with empathy deficit disorder often lives with the belief that their needs, desires and expectations are of utmost importance, and those of even their closest family, are irrelevant.”

Something like 2% of the population are on the autism spectrum, so it isn't exactly a rare condition. Thank you to those who have made honest attempts to help the OP and others like her understand, rather than just expressing their disapproval regarding the existence of this topic.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Something like 2% of the population are on the autism spectrum, so it isn't exactly a rare condition. Thank you to those who have made honest attempts to help the OP and others like her understand, rather than just expressing their disapproval regarding the existence of this topic.

Here's the problem: being on the autism spectrum doesn't make one less empathic in most cases. Most autistics are empathic; they just also think most neurotypicals are either delusional or hypocritical, because they keep espousing rules they themselves don't follow. Try again.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Something like 2% of the population are on the autism spectrum, so it isn't exactly a rare condition.

That includes me.

Thank you to those who have made honest attempts to help the OP and others like her understand, rather than just expressing their disapproval regarding the existence of this topic.

This is not an ASD issue. There is something else going on.

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

Here's the problem: being on the autism spectrum doesn't make one less empathic in most cases. Most autistics are empathic; they just also think most neurotypicals are either delusional or hypocritical, because they keep espousing rules they themselves don't follow. Try again.

What he said

Em

 

[AchtungNight]

I’m on the autism spectrum also, if anyone cares. And I too approve NoTalentHack’s message. I also would never call anyone a “neurotypical”. I want to be part of humanity, not separate myself from them. I like to call myself an empathetic person too.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I’m on the autism spectrum also, if anyone cares. And I too approve NoTalentHack’s message. I also would never call anyone a “neurotypical”. I want to be part of humanity, not separate myself from them. I like to call myself an empathetic person too.

It's no more insulting than a trans person calling a cis person cis or a gay person calling a straight. It can be said sneeringly ("fucking neurotypicals") but it's no more explicitly divisive than any other way of classifying oneself or others. It's "gay," not "f**" or "white," not "cracker."

 

[MillieDynamite]

My rapes happened over 19 years ago, and not one day has gone by that I haven't thought about the first one. Granted, it was my birth father and that kind of shit sticks with you. I have also been beaten up and robbed. I don't think about those often, unless I'm reminded about it, but rape, rape is forever. So, you and I are in agreement.

I understood that.

My point is; no one is "assuming" all rape victims have "this (traumatic) reaction."

Because ask any rape victim and they'll TELL YOU THEIR REACTION.

Meanwhile YOU are putting out there this assumption that it can't be any worse than being beaten up by a mugger.

People here are TELLING you what rape is like.

Not ASSUMING.

Telling you what it actually IS.

LISTEN TO THEM.

 

[AchtungNight]

It's no more insulting than a trans person calling a cis person cis or a gay person calling a straight. It can be said sneeringly ("fucking neurotypicals") but it's no more explicitly divisive than any other way of classifying oneself or others. It's "gay," not "f**" or "white," not "cracker."

I see it differently. Hence why I don’t use the word.

 

[AchtungNight]

My rapes happened 19 years ago, and not one day has gone by that I haven't thought about the first one. Granted, it was my birth father and that kind of shit sticks with you. I have also been beaten up and robbed. I don't think about those often, unless I'm reminded about it, but rape, rape is forever. So, you and I are in agreement.

I agree with all this. My attacker was not a relative. It’s not a situation I wish to discuss further here. But I too think about it every day. What could have happened and almost did.

Whatever your coping mechanisms are, I hope they work for you. Good luck.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm no longer a victim. I don't view myself that way, Jo doesn't look at me as a victim. My folks (adoptive family) look at me a strong independent woman and raised me to overcome fears, shortcomings, and what others say or think about me. I'm in a good place, and I hope you are as well.

 

[K155]

Hun,

All anyone is saying is that teaching women marital arts is not the answer. That’s some Hollywood fantasy.

Giving women guns is not the answer.

Trying to work out what it is that goes on in the minds of some men might be useful. Thinking about why and how society normalizes violence against women might be another.

But at the end of the day, solutions need to address would be perpetrators, not actual victims.

And meeting violence with violence (or self defense if you want) isn’t necessarily the way forward. It’s putting the onus on the victim.

That’s all people are saying.

Em

1000000% this!

We shouldn't be teaching people how not to get raped, we should be teaching people not to be rapists.

 

[Levorotatory]

That includes me.

This is not an ASD issue. There is something else going on.

Em

Of course there isn't a perfect correlation between ASD and lack of empathy, only an increased probability. Lack of empathy is also not exclusive to ASD. However, it is a real thing, and it means that some of us sometimes need help to be able to put ourselves in the positions of others. Again, I am thankful for those who choose to explain rather than be dismissive.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Of course there isn't a perfect correlation between ASD and lack of empathy, only an increased probability. Lack of empathy is also not exclusive to ASD. However, it is a real thing, and it means that some of us sometimes need help to be able to put ourselves in the positions of others. Again, I am thankful for those who choose to explain rather than be dismissive.

If this is an ASD issue, I’ll write a Gay Male story.

Em