One Step Forward....Several Steps Back

[Stella_Omega]

And that is the truth. At no time have I ever said that Obama is a Muslim. I have mentioned the possibility of it, but have also expressed doubt. I have said that others have said he was a Muslim, and I even pointed out how they might have developed that belief, but I have never expressed agreement with it.

I feel like a goddamnded English teacher here, but how about you go back, read your posts extremely carefully, and try to figure out how so many people got what you claim is the wrong impression?

And figure out how to write posts that convey exactly what you want them to. The first time. That don't leave you trying to scramble around to prove you "didn't say that."

Otherwise, dude, you'll just keep on making the wrong impression. Just saying.

(and "Muslim" is, of course, only one of many dumbass "possibilities" you've broached lately.)

 

[sr71plt]

And that is the truth. At no time have I ever said that Obama is a Muslim. I have mentioned the possibility of it, but have also expressed doubt. I have said that others have said he was a Muslim, and I even pointed out how they might have developed that belief, but I have never expressed agreement with it.

Stop jerking us around--and being a royal jerk in the process.

Why did you post this crap at all? Think about that. And try an answer that doesn't insult whatever intelligence you might have--because we all know the answer to that--and I'm sure you know we all know the answer to that.

So, you are saying you are going to continue this Rovian nonsense on this forum for at least the next eight years?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Ah, but Box has demonstrated moronity, time and again. He has. it's not his opinions, but his hammer-headedness, obtuseness, and the one that makes me laugh and shake myhead and forgive him-- the way he can deny that he ever said something-- when that something is two posts up. Box is a bimbo. If he isn't a bimbo, he hasn't shown any signs of an IQ around here.


As for you, your simple offhand remark was waaaay too easy to misread. Too simple, and too offhand.
It is YOUR responsibility to be sure you are understood. Don't assume that anyone here can, or cares to, read in the missing words, or see your smiling face when they read. I'm not ordering you, my friend, I mean this as friendly words of advice, from someone who's been through this-- I've been chased off of forums in the past, for this exact reason. I'm just saying that your words are your responsibility, one of those freedom things.
And right now, you are coming off of a month of inserting your libertarian views into dem/rep discussions, regardless of how many people tell you they aren't pertinent. So it's possible that your social coin is a bit tarnished right now. Means you have to be extra-extra-carefully clear.

Yanno?

What, so if you belong to a third party, your views are unwelcome? How cynical is that? It's a very close-minded approach to discussion.

I don't see any reason for me to be treated differently from most, just for expressing a minority viewpoint. Sorry, that excuse isn't going to fly.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Rediculous! Sev is attaching the "peasant' appelation to the group that is more educated and more carefully verbal, and less likely to fall for cheap emotive tricks. The opposite of a "peasant" in so many ways...

Like I said, pitchforks are luxury tools nowadays.

That's highly debatable, given your and Cloudy's (among others) recent tendency to slam and bash in a highly vicious manner anyone who happens to disagree with you, especially if they have the gall to represent a third way. Perhaps that third way is a bit more threatening, because it's not part of an established political opposition that you can easily understand and debate. Perhaps it is my mix of conservative and liberal ideas that makes my ideas so unwelcome.

If that is your way of being more "educated", "informed", and "mature", it leaves a lot to be desired, and smacks of self-delusion.

But that doesn't explain your dismissal of others with whom you disagree. Box is only one case. I can't speak to whether he's dug himself a hole, since I generally avoid reading all of his debates with you. I read just enough to see the pejoratives and attacks flying in both directions like so much excrement. There's more than Box and Ami. You try to pressure DP and others to conform with your view, perhaps because they are not as comfortable as neo-cons to confront in your debates. Or because you labor under the delusion that you can change their viewpoints.

You can't. They will hold their views, until they decide that they don't make sense to them anymore.

In my own case, Libertarianism is the past, just as social conservatism is for me. The future is still in flux, but I will organize my new ideology as I see fit, not under pressure from others. It will likely be more centrist than anything else, but it won't be anything designed to be PC or conform to the herd. I'm too Nietzschian for that.

If I change my views on a subject, it will be on my own initiative, because I choose it. Not because I was browbeaten by others. That tactic of yours is clearly going to drive more people away than attract them, madame.

 

[Stella_Omega]

What, so if you belong to a third party, your views are unwelcome? How cynical is that? It's a very close-minded approach to discussion.

I don't see any reason for me to be treated differently from most, just for expressing a minority viewpoint. Sorry, that excuse isn't going to fly.

Dude. If I'm making an excuse-- I say so.

My observation was empirical, from watching you annoy the fuck out of people by talking about your libertarian ideals long after your opinion had become incredibly well-promulgated. You haven't stopped yet, in fact.

I don't see why you expect people to treat you speshul nice, either. You have to work at being friends. it's a social forum, no one can totally enforce the "be nice" rule. You ignored hints, requests, screaming demands. Now you've lost some ground, socially.

I know I've done the same thing this year, you aren't alone. Only-- to far less people. *shrug* You have to learn to pick your battles, yanno?

 

[sr71plt]

It's not Box's or amicus' or DP's or your political positions I have found off putting, Severusmax. It's your persistent obtuseness in pushing them on forum threads--and, in all cases, your dishonesty in depicting contrasting views and your lack of moral fiber in relating to others.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Dude. If I'm making an excuse-- I say so.

My observation was empirical, from watching you annoy the fuck out of people by talking about your libertarian ideals long after your opinion had become incredibly well-promulgated. You haven't stopped yet, in fact.

I don't see why you expect people to treat you speshul nice, either. You have to work at being friends. it's a social forum, no one can totally enforce the "be nice" rule. You ignored hints, requests, screaming demands. Now you've lost some ground, socially.

I know I've done the same thing this year, you aren't alone. Only-- to far less people. *shrug* You have to learn to pick your battles, yanno?

I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm asking people who claim to be better educated and more mature to prove it. I've yet to see that of most of those who are most inclined to do so.

So I discuss my views. I'm not alone there. Others, including yourself, do so as well. This is a forum, after all. That's kind of the point of a forum, you know. Why should my views be treated as especially unwelcome, compared to the leftist dogma spouted here on a daily basis?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm asking people who claim to be better educated and more mature to prove it. I've yet to see that of most of those who are most inclined to do so.

So I discuss my views. I'm not alone there. Others, including yourself, do so as well. This is a forum, after all. That's kind of the point of a forum, you know. Why should my views be treated as especially unwelcome, compared to the leftist dogma spouted here on a daily basis?

Your question is its own answer.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I feel like a goddamnded English teacher here, but how about you go back, read your posts extremely carefully, and try to figure out how so many people got what you claim is the wrong impression?

And figure out how to write posts that convey exactly what you want them to. The first time. That don't leave you trying to scramble around to prove you "didn't say that."

Otherwise, dude, you'll just keep on making the wrong impression. Just saying.

(and "Muslim" is, of course, only one of many dumbass "possibilities" you've broached lately.)

Okay, I'm doing that. This is Post 28, dated August 11, from the thead where I wongly predicted McCain would win in a landslide. Let me know if there is anything ambiguous about it. I will be adding more.

I don't believe Obama is a Muslm, and even if I did, it wouldn't be a big deal. Many people perceive him as one, though, and will hold that against him. Yes, Jeremiah Wright is a FORMER pastor. After twenty years of soaking up his racist diatribes, Obama realized he had to throw the man under the bus. This may be "Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" because some people will now question Obama's loyalty to the man he has described as his spritual leader.

 

[cloudy]

Okay, I'm doing that. This is Post 28, dated August 11, from the thead where I wongly predicted McCain would win in a landslide. Let me know if there is anything ambiguous about it. I will be adding more.

I don't believe Obama is a Muslm, and even if I did, it wouldn't be a big deal. Many people perceive him as one, though, and will hold that against him. Yes, Jeremiah Wright is a FORMER pastor. After twenty years of soaking up his racist diatribes, Obama realized he had to throw the man under the bus. This may be "Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" because some people will now question Obama's loyalty to the man he has described as his spritual leader.

Are you going to do this for the next eight years? Please advise. Ignore list is waiting.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Your question is its own answer.

Meaning? The words "double standard" are coming suspiciously to the forefront of my very paranoid mind.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I don't believe Obama is a Muslm, and even if I did, it wouldn't be a big deal. Many people perceive him as one, though, and will hold that against him. Yes, Jeremiah Wright is a FORMER pastor. After twenty years of soaking up his racist diatribes, Obama realized he had to throw the man under the bus. This may be "Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" because some people will now question Obama's loyalty to the man he has described as his spritual leader.

Are you going to do this for the next eight years? Please advise. Ignore list is waiting.

Of course not. At the suggestion of Stella, I am reposting some former posts detailing what I said about Obama being a Muslim or not being one. It certainly shouldn't take anywhere near that long.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I don't believe Obama is a Muslm, and even if I did, it wouldn't be a big deal. Many people perceive him as one, though, and will hold that against him. Yes, Jeremiah Wright is a FORMER pastor. After twenty years of soaking up his racist diatribes, Obama realized he had to throw the man under the bus. This may be "Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" because some people will now question Obama's loyalty to the man he has described as his spritual leader.




Of course not. At the suggestion of Stella, I am reposting some former posts detailing what I said about Obama being a Muslim or not being one. It certainly shouldn't take anywhere near that long.

Don't count on it. Apparently, for the next few years, they will pull this double standard. From what Cloudy just said, count on 8 (or 4 if we're lucky enough that Obama is a one-termer).

That seems to be the plan. It reminds me a lot of the kind of peer pressure used by adolescents, but that's just me, perhaps.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Meaning? The words "double standard" are coming suspiciously to the forefront of my very paranoid mind.

Whose double standard? Where are the rules? This isn't a debate agora, it's a social hangout. That just happens to have weathered an election year, and you can see how many people are relieved that's over.

This is a distinctly left-leaning forum. It just happened that way, no one set out to make it so (although I'd be willing to bet that libertines are liberals as often as not) but regardless-- no one here has any responsibility towards your opinions. If people don't want to accommodate you, you can't make them do so. If you want accommodation, you won't get it by hollering "unfair!"

Welcome to a real anarchy. They are very. Hard. Work.

In fact, this forum is unusually tolerant; you've been handled with kid gloves, and you don't even realise it. Spend a couple of days at this political forum, and then come back here and complain.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Whose double standard? Where are the rules? This isn't a debate agora, it's a social hangout. That just happens to have weathered an election year, and you can see how many people are relieved that's over.

This is a distinctly left-leaning forum. It just happened that way, no one set out to make it so (although I'd be willing to bet that libertines are liberals as often as not) but regardless-- no one here has any responsibility towards your opinions. If people don't want to accommodate you, you can't make them do so. If you want accommodation, you won't get it by hollering "unfair!"

Welcome to a real anarchy. They are very. Hard. Work.

In fact, this forum is unusually tolerant; you've been handled with kid gloves, and you don't even realise it. Spend a couple of days at this political forum, and then come back here and complain.

Well, don't complain when I give back as good as I get, then. You dish out viciousness, don't be surprised that others repay you in kind. It's karma. You've griped about receiving the same treatment that you've dealt out to others. Now you know why you have gotten it.

Mind you, when you do conduct yourself with decorum (as has occasionally been known to happen), and when we can find common ground, I can be civil and friendly.

But I am a Scorpio. We're only calm on the surface. The passions are strong beneath the surface, and so pricking it releases them. And we're "all or nothing" fanatics, radicals, reactionaries, and revolutionaries. Either we seek to preserve the existing social order or we seek to overthrow it by any means necessary. Oddly, in my own way, I am a revolutionary. My revolution is one that seeks to restore the natural order of things against what I believe to be the tyranny of social mores and political correctness. It's a revolution that seeks liberty and meritocracy, individual rights for all, not just for some. In sum, it's a continuation of the Enlightenment and the core Jeffersonian philosophy of neo-classical humanism.

 

[sr71plt]

That just happens to have weathered an election year, and you can see how many people are relieved that's over.

Or would like to be relieved it's over by the propagandists just giving their dirty "debate" tactics/topics a rest for a while.

(So, Box, are you going to continue posting as you are for the next eight years?)

 

[Stella_Omega]

Of course not. At the suggestion of Stella, I am reposting some former posts detailing what I said about Obama being a Muslim or not being one. It certainly shouldn't take anywhere near that long.

yes, and you've done a good job.

I'll tell you one thing-- reading that first post, you were so wrong and in such detail-- it's astonishing!

Tell me it never snows in California, Box, I want to go skiing.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Or would like to be relieved it's over by the propagandists just giving their dirty "debate" tactics/topics a rest for a while.

(So, Box, are you going to continue posting as you are for the next eight years?)

Since you're a propagandist yourself, you have no grounds to complain.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, don't complain when I give back as good as I get, then. You dish out viciousness, don't be surprised that others repay you in kind. It's karma. You've griped about receiving the same treatment that you've dealt out to others. Now you know why you have gotten it.

That was you being vicious? God I'm so sorry! I thought you were whining-- I'll try to feel more menaced next time.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Okay, I'm doing that. This is Post 28, dated August 11, from the thead where I wongly predicted McCain would win in a landslide. Let me know if there is anything ambiguous about it. I will be adding more.

I don't believe Obama is a Muslm, and even if I did, it wouldn't be a big deal. Many people perceive him as one, though, and will hold that against him. Yes, Jeremiah Wright is a FORMER pastor. After twenty years of soaking up his racist diatribes, Obama realized he had to throw the man under the bus. This may be "Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" because some people will now question Obama's loyalty to the man he has described as his spritual leader.

Here is Post 45, Dated Oct. 28 on the thread "Obama's Agenda."

This is an extreme example of quoting out of context. The Daily Kos takes a bunch of second-long sound bites and puts them together as if they meant something. You could pobably do that with just anybody. If you put together the right ones, you could have Obama saying things such as: "I am a Marxist" or "I am a Muslim" or just about anything you wanted him to appear to be saying. This may be a new low, even for the Kos, but probably not.

 

[sr71plt]

Since you're a propagandist yourself, you have no grounds to complain.

Once again you assert a political partisan position to me that I don't possess. (You do so like to claim to know what others think.) True I'm generally a liberal Democrat, but I've been an apologist for the McCain folks here at least three times just today. I'm sure, though, that since I don't swallow the philosophy you are are peddling (and pushing hard), than I simply must be a propagandist.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

That was you being vicious? God I'm so sorry! I thought you were whining-- I'll try to feel more menaced next time.

Oh, I give up! I'll leave this thread alone and move on. No sense in trying to use reason on this point.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Once again you assert a political partisan position to me that I don't possess. (You do so like to claim to know what others think.) True I'm generally a liberal Democrat, but I've been an apologist for the McCain folks here at least three times just today. I'm sure, though, that since I don't swallow the philosophy you are are peddling (and pushing hard), than I simply must be a propagandist.

Since I'm still formulating my philosophy, you can hardly know what kind I am peddling.

And you are too a propagandist. Because only a propagandist would dismiss opposing views as being inherently selfish. That's Propaganda 101: attack the philosopher first, to smear the philosophy itself.

 

[sr71plt]

Since I'm still formulating my philosophy, you can hardly know what kind I am peddling.

And you are too a propagandist. Because only a propagandist would dismiss opposing views as being inherently selfish. That's Propaganda 101: attack the philosopher first, to smear the philosophy itself.

I don't dismiss opposing views as being inherently selfish. (There you go again asserting positions to me I haven't taken). I note that selfishness is the foundation of Libertarianism (which is only one view). It's rather hard to talk about Libertarianism without mentioning its foundation principle. Goolleee Geee.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I don't dismiss opposing views as being inherently selfish. (There you go again asserting positions to me I haven't taken). I note that selfishness is the foundation of Libertarianism (which is only one view). It's rather hard to talk about Libertarianism without mentioning its foundation principle. Goolleee Geee.

Ascribing a motive as a foundational principle of a philosophy, when it clearly isn't, is nothing but a propagandist's parlor trick. No doubt one that you use against other opposing views, too.

But I'm done with this thread. So let it drop.