Online happiness, is it possible?

[Keroin]

Wow, I'm blown away...in a very cool sense. I guess, for me, the internet has been almost exclusively a tool. This forum is the first "socializing" I've done, outside of sending emails and the odd MSN chat with RL friends. I've always wondered what draws someone to online communities.

For me, the BDSM aspect of this forum is secondary. I prefer not over analyzing my sexuality, I think that spoils most of the fun, (for me). What attracted me here was the quality of conversation...well, "women smelling and tasting their own asses" threads aside.

I wonder if I will continue to participate once I am back in civilization?

I've loved every post written here today. I hope more people will add in.

Oh, Recidiva, sorry, no Youtube for me, as I have an internet connection so painfully slow it makes sending smoke signals seem efficient. LOL. I've enjoyed your personal story. Very enlightening.

 

[Keroin]

You're expecting your personal culture to be the "right" one and that's what every last corner of the internet challenges. Unless it's your corner, then it's enforced.

This I'm not sure about. There is a ring of anarchy to this statement. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing anarchy, but I wonder if the internet is really challenging the idea of my personal culture as the "right" one or if it isn't often just people who feel like they can act like assholes because nothing is at stake?

Call me names here and what happens? I should say, what of any consequence happens?

But call me names in an environment where we might have to see each other on a semi-regular basis and suddenly the stakes are raised. Name calling may then not seem like such an appealing option.

And about the micro culture (again), yes, there may be some people who will scream like lunatics if I forget to remove my shoes in their house but generally I would have some clues about that before entering. In the case of the jerk from the sailing forum, I had perused the board briefly and everyone seemed quite sane and friendly. There was no reason to expect the attack I received. I mean, I can see if the discussion was about politics or Speedos or something important but all I asked were two very technical questions about sailboat equipment. WTF?! Seriously, that experience made me think twice about ever posting on any forum ever again.

 

[Homburg]

T
There are all these apparently "brain rotting" and "socially stunting" things that I do online and my kids do that I think enhance creativity and social possibility.

Oddly enough, while i rant and rave about how television rots the brains and eats up vast chunks of time, I am perfectly content to use the internet to do the very same thing. Part of me says, "Well, I'm reading, so it isn't complete brain rot." and then another part says, "Yes, but I'm reading about a coffee made from beans that have passed through the digestive tract of an ermine. Brain rot."

The jury is still out. It is probably a case of "My brain rot is healthy, and yours smells like poo."

--

I find it interesting stuff, especially in the question of authorship and editing and constructing our identities.

The idea that it's just me all me really me this is how I am seems filled with excess protestations. These are edited and constructed aspects of ourselves, that add up to something with more emotional truth at times than facetime.

It doesn't take the place of facetime for me. I've also gotten overly sucked in at times in my life. Using the internet as much as I do for mundane vanilla business transactions has helped a lot with this tendency in a way. It becomes something boring I want to get away from at least part of the time.

The internet allows me to have a business. This is huge for me.

Yup. Spending so much work time on the net is a good safety release for me. If I were to honestly look at it, I would say that I'm not addicted to the net so much as I am addicted to my desk.

 

[rida]

I've always kind of liked the idea of being as much like myself online as possible. I stopped pretending to be someone else when I went online in middle school. I've always used my own name or a variation of my own name, I always try to get people to know who I am as a person, I never change myself or anything about myself when I step online. I think this is just because I like the idea that the internet is just an extension of our regular lives so much.

As to trolls, yes those people might never treat people the way they do online if they ever met them face to face, but I see it as them showing their true selves, since so many societal constraints are dropped online. That to me is interesting. I find it so interesting that so often people talk about how everyone pretends to be someone else online, when to me it seems more likely that most people are actually their true selves that they can't show in the real world for whatever reason.

Mmmm.. more thoughts on this later.

The above is a very interesting point.
I'm sure there are people out there that construct detailed phony personalities, but I think, as Syd, that most are just feeling free to be more honest about who they are: the good and the ugly, mostly the ugly that they could never get away with in polite society.

Also, as Syd, I never felt the need to pretend to be anything by myself: if I cannot be totally honest with so much anonymity, when can I be?
I might not have my face pic out there, but that is only partly due to fear of being recognized (with all the pic I have up here that also have item of clothing, I'm sure that I could be recognized). Mostly I am afraid I'll crush the illusion of a sexy little Japanese geisha in my fans

Now for the OP re: happiness & on-line interaction/relationships.

The internet and on-line communities have indeed changed the way people interact and meet. To me, virtual-friends are real, I never forget that there is a person behind the words. But I know that that is not true for everyone.
Hubby, for instance, cannot even begin to phantom on-line friendship and relationships: the idea that you can be friend with someone that you have never met (and might not) is so far removed from his mind that it is akin as having an imaginary friend. If it was not that many people older than him are among some of the very active member of the Lit BDSM forum community, I would have suggested that it might be a generation-gap thing. But I think it is probably just a "not having really experienced it yet" and personal taste matter.

Lit is the first community I can call myself active in. Previously I joined a expecting moms one, but due to the time zone issue (it was totally geared for US people) the boards would change right after I posted or I would not be able to really join the conversations as they were too quick. Yet I still met some nice lady with whom I am still in touch via e-mail.

As Ecstatic said, I like the idea that no matter where I might end up, I can bring my on-line friends with me. Somehow there is a very reassuring element in knowing that these on-line friendships do not need the daily face time to be kept alive. Actually, with me and the way my life has been split between two continents and the fact that I tended to make friend with people all over, I only have, even in real-life, friendships that do not need routine face time to stay alive.

A totally, perhaps, unrelated thing that happened to me since becoming more involved with Lit (and on-line communities): I used to love to talk and hate to write. Now I love to talk but even more so to write. Actually, I probably prefer writing this days. To the point that when it comes to serious discussions/talks even with Hubby, we do it via YIM: it helps with my inability to let him talk without cutting in, it helps with his tendency to be sarcastic as the tone is lost so I do not get annoyed, it helps with my own unintentional body language that causes the wrong impression, but mostly forces both of us to think before we hit ENTER.

 

[Recidiva]

This I'm not sure about. There is a ring of anarchy to this statement. Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing anarchy, but I wonder if the internet is really challenging the idea of my personal culture as the "right" one or if it isn't often just people who feel like they can act like assholes because nothing is at stake?

Call me names here and what happens? I should say, what of any consequence happens?

But call me names in an environment where we might have to see each other on a semi-regular basis and suddenly the stakes are raised. Name calling may then not seem like such an appealing option.

And about the micro culture (again), yes, there may be some people who will scream like lunatics if I forget to remove my shoes in their house but generally I would have some clues about that before entering. In the case of the jerk from the sailing forum, I had perused the board briefly and everyone seemed quite sane and friendly. There was no reason to expect the attack I received. I mean, I can see if the discussion was about politics or Speedos or something important but all I asked were two very technical questions about sailboat equipment. WTF?! Seriously, that experience made me think twice about ever posting on any forum ever again.

I'm not an anarchist. I'm calling it like I see it.

The internet allows people to behave as they choose without repercussions. "Repercussions" for words is a human invention and expectation. This is the deconstruction of that. I really only believe in the absolute repercussions of physics. Otherwise, people are entirely unpredictable.

 

[Recidiva]

Oddly enough, while i rant and rave about how television rots the brains and eats up vast chunks of time, I am perfectly content to use the internet to do the very same thing. Part of me says, "Well, I'm reading, so it isn't complete brain rot." and then another part says, "Yes, but I'm reading about a coffee made from beans that have passed through the digestive tract of an ermine. Brain rot."

The jury is still out. It is probably a case of "My brain rot is healthy, and yours smells like poo."

I like reality TV and romance novels and video games.

Anyone who wants to accuse me of brain rot is welcome to debate it with me. So far I seem to be able to hold my own, and as an added bonus, be able to debate on more subjects.

I'm finding the breakdown of many intellectual standards also, which I enjoy. I've been to plenty of "intellectual" sites and they can be boring and pedantic and enjoy the upholding of standards instead of creative thought. Memorization and pedigree over originality.

I guess I've just stopped excusing or avoiding or justifying or standardizing. If I like it, I check it out. When I'm curious about anything, wine, food, sexuality, TV, books...I ask a question and I get a flood of answers. I've discovered in the past I've been very willing to refuse to try something because of my fear of addiction or decline in capacity...and usually that's just referred elitism that I've picked up by osmosis. I'm not elite. I'm okay with that. But I get to be curious and interested and opinionated and I like that.

Also, if I want to discuss any of these subjects I can do so with lots of people, enjoy the arguments and counter arguments, and gather more of my own reasonings as to why I enjoy something or am repulsed by something.

 

[00Syd]

The Internet IS anarchy. There ARE NO RULES.

(And the few "rules" that are in place are nearly impossible to enforce.)

There are people in the governement who WANT the internet to have rules are while they would be sort of impossible to implement anyway... people are working on it. People don't like the anarchy of the internet and are trying to create some order and come in with guns blazing to root out all the rampent lawlessness.

But, in my opinion, while that would get rid of the "bad" parts of the internet, it would also do a hell of a lot to ruin the good.

There was a really interesting article I read about this a while ago, I'll see if I can try to find it.

But for now... I have to go do my hair and get dressed! I have class in an hour.

 

[Keroin]

The Internet IS anarchy. There ARE NO RULES.

(And the few "rules" that are in place are nearly impossible to enforce.)

There are people in the governement who WANT the internet to have rules are while they would be sort of impossible to implement anyway... people are working on it. People don't like the anarchy of the internet and are trying to create some order and come in with guns blazing to root out all the rampent lawlessness.

But, in my opinion, while that would get rid of the "bad" parts of the internet, it would also do a hell of a lot to ruin the good.

There was a really interesting article I read about this a while ago, I'll see if I can try to find it.

But for now... I have to go do my hair and get dressed! I have class in an hour.

Interesting. (I'm saying that a lot in this thread, aren't I?).

I can see the appeal. Part of the reason I've spent so much time in third world countries is the freedom that comes with the lack of law enforcement. Not to suggest I'm some kind of Marlon Brando, The Wild One type, only that I get frustrated with the level of babysitting in the western world. The decline of personal responsibility is making people fat and stupid and helpless. However, the same lack of enforcement that allows me to camp on a deserted beach, have a campfire, and *gasp* drink alcohol, also leaves me more vulnerable to the nastier elements of society, (which, ironically, are often the police). Still, I wouldn't change a thing. So, yes, I'm all for keeping the internet as unregulated as possible.

Then again, there needs to be ways to control and stop things like child porn rings and internet stalking, don't you think?

I guess what I have trouble with, (in the context of online socializing), is not so much the medium as the people. I admit this is my personal bias rearing its polite, Canadian head. How I behave online is no different than how I behave in RL and so I suppose I don’t understand why someone who is probably a decent person face to face feels the need to make the asshole conversion under cover of avatar. Maybe I’m just too old to understand?

And I wonder what the ratio is of people who’ve found true love/happiness online versus those who’ve been abused and exploited? (I’m thinking of a thread I just read here about a group of women who felt they’d been taken by an online dom).

And what’s next? Where does it go from web 2.0? I’m so curious.

And what if it all ended? How would the landscape of your life change without the internet?

So many questions.

 

[Recidiva]

Interesting. (I'm saying that a lot in this thread, aren't I?).

I can see the appeal. Part of the reason I've spent so much time in third world countries is the freedom that comes with the lack of law enforcement. Not to suggest I'm some kind of Marlon Brando, The Wild One type, only that I get frustrated with the level of babysitting in the western world. The decline of personal responsibility is making people fat and stupid and helpless. However, the same lack of enforcement that allows me to camp on a deserted beach, have a campfire, and *gasp* drink alcohol, also leaves me more vulnerable to the nastier elements of society, (which, ironically, are often the police). Still, I wouldn't change a thing. So, yes, I'm all for keeping the internet as unregulated as possible.

Then again, there needs to be ways to control and stop things like child porn rings and internet stalking, don't you think?

I guess what I have trouble with, (in the context of online socializing), is not so much the medium as the people. I admit this is my personal bias rearing its polite, Canadian head. How I behave online is no different than how I behave in RL and so I suppose I don’t understand why someone who is probably a decent person face to face feels the need to make the asshole conversion under cover of avatar. Maybe I’m just too old to understand?

And I wonder what the ratio is of people who’ve found true love/happiness online versus those who’ve been abused and exploited? (I’m thinking of a thread I just read here about a group of women who felt they’d been taken by an online dom).

And what’s next? Where does it go from web 2.0? I’m so curious.

And what if it all ended? How would the landscape of your life change without the internet?

So many questions.

I think you're hoping for more inherent recogizable structure to human interactions than there is.

And what's the ratio to real life love/happiness versus being abused and exploited.

If it all ended I wouldn't have a job.

 

[slavemarissa]

Wow! This is all so interesting. First off, i'm going to admit that i am adicted to the internet. There's no doubt about it. I can't wait to get home and turn on my computer, see if i have any emails, see who's online ect. I hate it when i can't do that! It drives me crazy!

I'm sorry about the length of this post, its just so many great things have been said and i would love to comment on them...

I spend a lot or time online. A lot. Lots of people have told me that I'm wasting time, that I'm wasting my life, why spend so much time with virtual people when you could spend time with real people? But that's just the thing! Behind every screen name, behind every user ID, behind every avatar is a REAL person, with a REAL life. And how does that person translate their lives through the internet? How have they managed to reduce themselves to a facebook profile, or even more amazing, to a twitter profile (140 characters or less!). And how does that affect how they see themselves? How does that change the way they go through life? Does it change it at all?

How many user profiles have we all filled out? How many times have we had to sit for a moment and think of a way to describe ourselves to other people? Does this make us more self aware? What ate the implications of that? Do we think more about what makes us US?

Some people see the internet as yet another way to lose ourselves, but I think that its helping us find ourselves. The internet forces us to think about who we are, and who we are to other people, and who we want to be. So many people life out their fantasies online, and not just big outrageous ones, but more mundane ones like "I'd like to be more outgoing," or "I want to be more funny." and I think that this new level of self awareness of our "real" selves and our "internet" selves will cause them to start to merge.

I completely agree with all of this, if it wasn't for finding lit i wouldn't have known any of this stuff existed, i would have thought i was weird and there was something seriously fucked up with me. I've now been able to find that i'm not the only one. And i have been able to find myself and who i am - things that i can't show in my real life.

Even in school its impossible to speak your true mind at all times without implication, and there is absolutely no way in school to hear more then a few different opinions. Online there is a MASSIVE range of opinions to think about and to learn from and endless topics to discuss.

Deffinitely, coming from someone who is still in the school system, i have learnt so much about other people other lives... everything.

The possibility that I might be discovered has never been a huge fear. The worst that could happen is that people would find out that I'm kinky and everyone would go "oh wow" and then it would become old news. But of course I'm in a very different place in my life then other people, and so the possibility of being discovered isn't as big a deal for me as for other people.

I've always kind of liked the idea of being as much like myself online as possible. I stopped pretending to be someone else when I went online in middle school. I've always used my own name or a variation of my own name, I always try to get people to know who I am as a person, I never change myself or anything about myself when I step online. I think this is just because I like the idea that the internet is just an extension of our regular lives so much.

Being discovered online has been a fear of mine, but its dying off... slowly...
I find that internet is a place where i can be who i want to be, and i want to be me. I use my name if i can, and act the way i would with anyone i meet, any method. There's just a few things that i can add to myself which i can't neccessarily show in my everyday life.

This is a very interesting topic, and one which is very close to my heart.

I am an Internet addict, yes I admit it! For a while, back in December/January, I was sooo obsessed with the Internet, and Second Life, in particular that I became disconnected from the real life, from the reality and from my life, and just going through the week, and wanting to get home from work, and get on the Internet. This have made me disconnecting from these friends with whom I have made friends over the MSN and met through CM/IC etc. I came to realise this a couple of weeks ago, and I decided to take a break away from the Internet and Second Life. This week, I made a good decision, to cut down on my hours on the Internet. To have a good balance between the Internet and the real life. To be re-connected with these old friends, both on MSN and in real life, and oh boy, it feels good. I am now getting positive.

I do agree that Internet is a great way to meet people, to make friends, and things like that. I am myself online, but I am usually shy in real life, so Internet have helped me coming out of my shyness, and that carried over into the real life, that is for sure. I also had a good opportunity to realise my fantasises, both as a bottom and as a Domme, through meeting certain people in real life, after chatting away on MSN. This have helped my shyness a lot! As I would have known something about them before I met them, and vice versa.

As i've already said.. i am the same

Look at RickRolling.

What's RickRolling....? It hasn't reached the UK yet, i'm very curious....

Yes, these are our selves and yet highly edited versions of such, making them...what? Hmm. Our ultra-selves? What we would be if we were smarter, better, faster, not limited by physical/social/cultural constraints? Hm.

What think y'all?

I am deffinitely and ultra-self online.. not trying to speak for everyone.. but as i've already said, its so much easier to be who you want to be.

Call me names here and what happens? I should say, what of any consequence happens?

But call me names in an environment where we might have to see each other on a semi-regular basis and suddenly the stakes are raised. Name calling may then not seem like such an appealing option.

I completely agree... to me this is the bad part of all this i guess (among many others)
The internet allows us to hurt people in ways that some of us would never dream of doing face-to-face.
I suppose that it can let us get our anger out, but we don't see the consequences this has on other people sometimes. Although, IMHO, i sometimes let a lot of what is said online if i don't like it, completely was over my head...


Again, sorry about this being so long.. and repetitive..
I find all of this so interesting, thank you Keroin

xxxx

 

[00Syd]

Interesting. (I'm saying that a lot in this thread, aren't I?).

I can see the appeal. Part of the reason I've spent so much time in third world countries is the freedom that comes with the lack of law enforcement. Not to suggest I'm some kind of Marlon Brando, The Wild One type, only that I get frustrated with the level of babysitting in the western world. The decline of personal responsibility is making people fat and stupid and helpless. However, the same lack of enforcement that allows me to camp on a deserted beach, have a campfire, and *gasp* drink alcohol, also leaves me more vulnerable to the nastier elements of society, (which, ironically, are often the police). Still, I wouldn't change a thing. So, yes, I'm all for keeping the internet as unregulated as possible.

Then again, there needs to be ways to control and stop things like child porn rings and internet stalking, don't you think?

I guess what I have trouble with, (in the context of online socializing), is not so much the medium as the people. I admit this is my personal bias rearing its polite, Canadian head. How I behave online is no different than how I behave in RL and so I suppose I don’t understand why someone who is probably a decent person face to face feels the need to make the asshole conversion under cover of avatar. Maybe I’m just too old to understand?

And I wonder what the ratio is of people who’ve found true love/happiness online versus those who’ve been abused and exploited? (I’m thinking of a thread I just read here about a group of women who felt they’d been taken by an online dom).

And what’s next? Where does it go from web 2.0? I’m so curious.

And what if it all ended? How would the landscape of your life change without the internet?

So many questions.

There are laws in place and enforcement measures all working to stop child porn rings and internet stalking, but they are very hard to enforce and/or make work. The problem is that as soon as law enforcement comes up with some new technology to combat child porn and internet stalkers, the pedophiles and stalkers subvert the new technology frighteningly quickly.

Unfortunately all the ideas anyone seems to be able to come up with that might actually be effective against pedophiles and stalkers would ruin the internet for everyone else.

Lots of people are assholes and hide it shockingly well. Lots of people are very impatient but manage not to show it. Lots of people have a lot of hate but nobody would never know. On the internet, people can be themselves, and no longer have to hide the worse aspects of their personalities.

This, along with everything else on the internet, is a situation where you just have to take the bad with the good. Assholes suck, but do you know what would be worse then dealing with a few assholes? Not being able to deal with anyone.

And like Recidiva said, how many people who meet in "real life" find true love and how many end up abused? Just about any phenomena that people like to attribute to the internet has a "real life" equivalent that's really not much different. Lots of people like to talk about how meeting people online is SO dangerous and SO unsafe, when really its not much different meeting anyone anywhere. Lots of people like to talk about the amount of internet stalkers there are and never mention the amount of stalkers there are outside the computer. The internet is really just like the rest of the world... though sometimes amplified.

 

[00Syd]

What's RickRolling....? It hasn't reached the UK yet, i'm very curious....

Yes it has. RickRolling has reached THE INTERNET AT LARGE, which means its hit the UK. You probably just don't hang out in the right places online (4chan, digg, youtube).

RickRolling is being tricked into viewing Rick Astley's music video for Never Gonna Give You Up.

 

[donnydave]

oh yes ive heard of it and im from uk btw intersting profile syd

 

[slavemarissa]

oh k then...
thank you

yeah, i don't hang out in those places.. i don't really see the amusement and fun of youtube tbh.. its good for some stuff but... i just don't get i suppose

 

[rida]

*snip*

I guess what I have trouble with, (in the context of online socializing), is not so much the medium as the people. I admit this is my personal bias rearing its polite, Canadian head. How I behave online is no different than how I behave in RL and so I suppose I don’t understand why someone who is probably a decent person face to face feels the need to make the asshole conversion under cover of avatar. Maybe I’m just too old to understand?

*snip*

And what’s next? Where does it go from web 2.0? I’m so curious.

And what if it all ended? How would the landscape of your life change without the internet?

So many questions.

(sorry for the snipping ... I just left the question I feel I can answer)

I do not understand it either, the need to hide behind an avatar and be an asshole. But I tend to believe that those are people that, even in RL would be assholes and actually are assholes; they just cover/hide it better.
And also, there are people that like on-line assholes: they often come with their court of lackey, people ready to jump on their boat to show to the asshole how worthy of his/her attention/consideration they are. Sometimes it all looks like a big kindergarten playgroup, where the bully/boss is being mean just because he/she can and to reinforce his/her power over that little corner/toys.

Where will it all go? I think it will depend also from how the law/regulation, as has been mentioned, will enter the internet world. But I do not think it can be stopped or taken away from people daily life and reality. The on-line world has already become part of our real-world.

And if it all ended? I'LL DIE OF WITHDRAWAL!!!!!
Yes, I am addicted: I check it before going to sleep, as soon as I get up, I'm on line any time I have more than 10 minutes to myself and sometime even when I should be doing something else. And since being able to check it from my mobile, I check it on the subway and even walking ....

Yes it has. RickRolling has reached THE INTERNET AT LARGE, which means its hit the UK. You probably just don't hang out in the right places online (4chan, digg, youtube).

RickRolling is being tricked into viewing Rick Astley's music video for Never Gonna Give You Up.

ARGH! I've been had. I ended watching the video on youtube ... but actually, it made me smile to remember those days ...

 

[Keroin]

(sorry for the snipping ... I just left the question I feel I can answer)

I do not understand it either, the need to hide behind an avatar and be an asshole. But I tend to believe that those are people that, even in RL would be assholes and actually are assholes; they just cover/hide it better.
And also, there are people that like on-line assholes: they often come with their court of lackey, people ready to jump on their boat to show to the asshole how worthy of his/her attention/consideration they are. Sometimes it all looks like a big kindergarten playgroup, where the bully/boss is being mean just because he/she can and to reinforce his/her power over that little corner/toys.

Where will it all go? I think it will depend also from how the law/regulation, as has been mentioned, will enter the internet world. But I do not think it can be stopped or taken away from people daily life and reality. The on-line world has already become part of our real-world.

And if it all ended? I'LL DIE OF WITHDRAWAL!!!!!
Yes, I am addicted: I check it before going to sleep, as soon as I get up, I'm on line any time I have more than 10 minutes to myself and sometime even when I should be doing something else. And since being able to check it from my mobile, I check it on the subway and even walking ....




ARGH! I've been had. I ended watching the video on youtube ... but actually, it made me smile to remember those days ...

Snip away, that's fine.

You're probably right about the asshole factor.

My internet is very expensive so that keeps me from falling victim to its evil clutches. (Last month I had to download a bunch of programs and my bill was close to $300).

BTW, I lived in Japan many moons ago. In Komoro-shi, about an hour from Nagano. Lovely place. I miss the public baths and vending machines that sell everything. I don't miss being the tallest person in the room everywhere I go. LOL.

 

[Keroin]

I think you're hoping for more inherent recogizable structure to human interactions than there is. Maybe.

And what's the ratio to real life love/happiness versus being abused and exploited. Probably about the same. Point taken.

If it all ended I wouldn't have a job. Ouch.

What about the disconnect from RL? I worked in the Bahamas for awhile and I saw more than one American Teenager come through and spend their entire vacation glued to their laptop/game boy. I remember feeling profoundly sad because here was the ocean and all its wonders spread out before them and they were ignoring it in favour of something not real.

Am I out of touch? Old fashioned? I understand how many fantastic elements there are to the internet but what about the earth? The mountains? The trees? The ocean? Will people stop caring about the very things that sustain them in favour of a virtual world?

I have to go hug a tree, I'll be right back.

 

[00Syd]

Am I out of touch? Old fashioned? I understand how many fantastic elements there are to the internet but what about the earth? The mountains? The trees? The ocean? Will people stop caring about the very things that sustain them in favour of a virtual world?

No. People will never stop caring about the mountains and the trees.

And staying indoors on a computer for much of the day doesn't mean that you've forgotten about the world or stopped caring about it.

In my mind when a kid gets dragged on vacation with their parents to the beach and spends more time playing video games then building sand castles, that has more to do with being a kid then it does with technology being a soul sucker. When that kid grows into an adult they'll come back to that same beach and lay on the sand and watch the ocean and dismay their their kid is playing the new hottest video game instead of building sand castles.

 

[Keroin]

No. People will never stop caring about the mountains and the trees.

And staying indoors on a computer for much of the day doesn't mean that you've forgotten about the world or stopped caring about it.

In my mind when a kid gets dragged on vacation with their parents to the beach and spends more time playing video games then building sand castles, that has more to do with being a kid then it does with technology being a soul sucker. When that kid grows into an adult they'll come back to that same beach and lay on the sand and watch the ocean and dismay their their kid is playing the new hottest video game instead of building sand castles.

Hm, I’m a little skeptical. I think many people have already stopped caring.

In my experience, the more connection people have to something, the more they care and the more they work to protect it. My involvement with various environmental organizations – and I’m talking hands-on involvement, not just financial support – comes from what I see and experience not from what I read or watch on the TV or on the internet. Every time I see a gill net destroying yet another fragile reef ecosystem, my hackles go up and I get out and do something about it.

No, I don’t think people will forget about the world just because they are indoors on the computer but I think they will start to care less about it.

Images on a screen can’t convey the feeling of being there. They just can’t. Not even close. I’ve wandered through piles of dead shark carcasses, fished illegally, fins cut off and bodies tossed on the shore, still alive, left to bleed to death – this experience has been engraved in my brain. I dare anyone to show me an e-equivalent to that experience.

Oh dear, you got me talking about fish. Sorry, gets me all riled up.

I love the internet, I really do, but I am wary of everything.

How was class?

Oh and I do think people are predictable to a large degree, (someone made this point several posts back). If they weren't, advertising wouldn't work so well.

 

[00Syd]

Hm, I’m a little skeptical. I think many people have already stopped caring.

In my experience, the more connection people have to something, the more they care and the more they work to protect it. My involvement with various environmental organizations – and I’m talking hands-on involvement, not just financial support – comes from what I see and experience not from what I read or watch on the TV or on the internet. Every time I see a gill net destroying yet another fragile reef ecosystem, my hackles go up and I get out and do something about it.

No, I don’t think people will forget about the world just because they are indoors on the computer but I think they will start to care less about it.

Images on a screen can’t convey the feeling of being there. They just can’t. Not even close. I’ve wandered through piles of dead shark carcasses, fished illegally, fins cut off and bodies tossed on the shore, still alive, left to bleed to death – this experience has been engraved in my brain. I dare anyone to show me an e-equivalent to that experience.

Oh dear, you got me talking about fish. Sorry, gets me all riled up.

I love the internet, I really do, but I am wary of everything.

How was class?

Oh and I do think people are predictable to a large degree, (someone made this point several posts back). If they weren't, advertising wouldn't work so well.

I just think that much of the worry that people are starting to care less about the world and whathaveyou is over hyped. ALL of the worries about the internet, this one, the one about sexual predators, all of them, are, in my opinion, over hyped. People make more out of it then there really is. Yes this happens to some degree, but I seriously doubt that one day everyone will forget that the world exists and stop caring about it and stop going outside and all of those horror stories that people tell who are frightened of technology. I'm not saying that you are one of those people, not even a little bit, but those people often make much ado about nothing.

I think that because the internet is so new that a lot of people are freaked out that its going to ruin eveeerything.

In my opinion, the internet will continue to become even more seamlessly integrated into our lives as technology progresses and then everything will normalize a little once everyone gets used to it and there will no longer be any question as to whether or not it will cause us to stop caring about the world or anything like that.

Also, I think the internet actually helps spread awareness of ecological issues as well as world issues that our main stream media often ignores. Look at the two massively popular websites like Digg and Reddit which are ALL ABOUT finding articles and stuff that report on news we may not find elsewhere. Its great!

Oh, and class was fine

 

[Recidiva]

What about the disconnect from RL? I worked in the Bahamas for awhile and I saw more than one American Teenager come through and spend their entire vacation glued to their laptop/game boy. I remember feeling profoundly sad because here was the ocean and all its wonders spread out before them and they were ignoring it in favour of something not real.

Am I out of touch? Old fashioned? I understand how many fantastic elements there are to the internet but what about the earth? The mountains? The trees? The ocean? Will people stop caring about the very things that sustain them in favour of a virtual world?

I have to go hug a tree, I'll be right back.

I really can't tell you what you are or are not. As to teenage behavior:

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, they gobble their food, they terrorize their teachers." Socrates - 426 BC

So much of the behavior you're describing would happen whether or not the internet exists. There are certainly negative drawbacks. From my point of view though, this is like the discovery of fire. Yes, fire can be destructive and do harm and ruin lives.

It can also cook your food, warm your home and bring light into dark places.

Just like fire, it's how well you control it, how good you are at making it, and how you utilize it while avoiding the drawbacks and keep from getting burned.

I have no less an appreciation for the earth, the mountains, the trees or the ocean than I did before the internet came to be.

In my life, it's infinitely more positive than negative. If that's possible, then HOW you use the internet, just like how you use fire, is the determining factor of whether or not it's going to be of benefit or burn your life down. Destruction is possible, but it's certainly not inevitable.

If you're foolish and careless on the internet, you have a better chance of escaping without any consequences and you might learn something. Real life rarely gives such social practice opportunities and do-overs.

For those who can't learn, nothing will teach them. For those who can learn, there's so much to explore and try out that there's no way the content of the internet could be exhausted.

So many news sources and research and personal empiric stories to be told.

I find it hard at all, after about 20 years of involvement, to consider the internet anything but the most precious of resources, where I met my husband, where I make my living, and where when I have a few spare moments, I can learn something or entertain myself. Usually both.

 

[Keroin]

OK, one last question and then I promise I'll give this thread some milk and cookies, read it a story and put it to bed.

Since the majority of people who've responded think the internet is beneficial or at least benign, I'm curious to know how often you unplug. I'm talking completely - no laptop, no crackberry, no gameboy, nothing. Do you take two week vacations with your family during which no one goes online, texts friends, plays video games, etc?

Are there large chunks of time in your life when you are disconnected?

If not, why not? And if so, how long is the longest you can stand being unplugged?

Thanks everyone for answering my nosy questions.

BTW I'm in an LDR with my PYL so I'm not as anti-internet as I portray myself. LOL.

 

[Homburg]

OK, one last question and then I promise I'll give this thread some milk and cookies, read it a story and put it to bed.

Since the majority of people who've responded think the internet is beneficial or at least benign, I'm curious to know how often you unplug. I'm talking completely - no laptop, no crackberry, no gameboy, nothing. Do you take two week vacations with your family during which no one goes online, texts friends, plays video games, etc?

Well, I don't own a crackberry or gameboy, but my laptop usually comes with me when I leave for a weekend trip. Not always, though it only doesn't when 1) I've no work to do, and 2) I know I will have at least some computer access where I am going.

Last year I went on a weekend camping trip with my son's cub scout pack, and had no internet access. All I had was my cell phone.

I use the net for work, so I need it for that. I also use the net to keep in touch with MIS. Need it for that. Take away the use of those two things (such as a weekend where I've cleared work and MIS is visiting) and I tend to just quickly check my email and read my webcomics.

Are there large chunks of time in your life when you are disconnected?

Yes, sleep. I work out of my house though, so it really isn't a fair question for me.

If not, why not? And if so, how long is the longest you can stand being unplugged?

I regularly find myself on the road for 5-9 hours at a stretch, plus things to do once I get to my destination.

BTW I'm in an LDR with my PYL so I'm not as anti-internet as I portray myself. LOL.

You didn't actually strike me as anti-interent. You came across more pro-go-outside-dammit.

 

[Keroin]

You didn't actually strike me as anti-interent. You came across more pro-go-outside-dammit.

Oh dear, I've been outed! It's all my parents fault.

Parents: "Go outside and play!"

K: "But it's cold and rainy out."

Parents: "Then put a sweater and a rain coat on!! Now go!"

(Thanks Mom and Dad - hugs).

 

[slavemarissa]

OK, one last question and then I promise I'll give this thread some milk and cookies, read it a story and put it to bed.

Since the majority of people who've responded think the internet is beneficial or at least benign, I'm curious to know how often you unplug. I'm talking completely - no laptop, no crackberry, no gameboy, nothing. Do you take two week vacations with your family during which no one goes online, texts friends, plays video games, etc?

Are there large chunks of time in your life when you are disconnected?

If not, why not? And if so, how long is the longest you can stand being unplugged?

Thanks everyone for answering my nosy questions.

BTW I'm in an LDR with my PYL so I'm not as anti-internet as I portray myself. LOL.

I can't do it. I really can't.
I went on a touring holidayish for 5weeks with a group. I had very little chance to go on the internet - only if a particular hotel we were staying in had it (most of the time it was youth hostels) and even then we had to share to just check our emails or facebook. We weren't allowed mobile phones either.

I guess this is going to sound really shallow and horrid. But... I felt so empty. Like i was missing something huge in my life - and it certainly wasn't my family -it was not having my emails and being able to speak to my PYL.

And you really don't seem anti-internet, just like you have better things to do as well as going on the internet But i didn't think you were a pyl, i was thinking slightly more along the lines of switch hmmm...