Political Poetry

[Angeline]

Sheesh, you are going way back with those members. I first came here in 2001, and both were here then. I'm glad to see some folks are still here. I think I came back here partly to chase some ghosts, I have no idea what I will do when I catch them though.

I did hear from karmadog awhile ago he's doing well.

Same here. Karmadog had a rough time in Katrina, but both he and Karma landed on their feet. He wrote to me about six months ago, still bitching about bars and meeting the wrong women which told me he's doing fine.

 

[lorencino]

I assume it is a test
with due diligent preparation
handed out by learned experts

I have read the constitutional cliff notes
excelled at the pre test preamble
suffered only a slight subtraction
for the hand over the heart parts
where in full patriotism I pretend
that I cannot see what I can

democracy on a grading curve
plotted by bones
and years buried
subtracted by memories
that reduce or amplify
every true spark of independence to
the mean

my mean
or maybe
the meaning of
to be without means
which means we failed

I pretend it is a test
and struggle to live
while I practice how to die
with the cliff notes
that the founders left for me

I knew there was some merit to this, after all, Angeline said it's great, but I got stuck at "cliff notes" and left my mind there while my eyes scanned what followed. Then Angeline says: "Feckin cliff notes." and I'm having that sinking feeling that there is some esoteric knowledge that I am not acquainted with that is preventing me from understanding this poem. I read again and reread knowing it has some element of disillusionment with more innocent times.

Yes, I could see there was some considerable merit to this but still it remained largely opaque, protected by the mysterious power of feckin cliff notes. And so I went to sleep last night, oblivious.

This morning, bringing fresh eyes to this poem I reached the "cliff notes" with the usual reaction of seeing the logo of the Cliff energy bars when it flashed through my mind, but of course that must be something like Coles Notes study guides. Then I read the poem with fluid ease (not the heavy tread of yesterday) and saw for the first time (on probably the 10th read since yesterday) those wonderful lines I could not believe I had glossed over so mindlessly:

that reduce or amplify
every true spark of independence to
the mean

my mean
or maybe
the meaning of
to be without means
which means we failed​

Mouthing a silent (so as not ruin the fragile moment of awe) "Wow," I smiled inwardly at the sheer beauty of what was hidden in these seemingly simple lines. Three diverse meanings derived from the root "mean" plaited into a braid of powerful political opinion and managed as though with self effacing ease. There is nothing in the least laboured in those lines, which, as far as I'm concerned, is a mark of something to do with genius.

In conclusion, on the whole, when all is said and done, at the end of the day, bottom line, if I had not experienced such overwhelming pleasure from the artistry of these lines, I would have been overcome with envy.

 

[Angeline]

I knew there was some merit to this, after all, Angeline said it's great, but I got stuck at "cliff notes" and left my mind there while my eyes scanned what followed. Then Angeline says: "Feckin cliff notes." and I'm having that sinking feeling that there is some esoteric knowledge that I am not acquainted with that is preventing me from understanding this poem. I read again and reread knowing it has some element of disillusionment with more innocent times.

Yes, I could see there was some considerable merit to this but still it remained largely opaque, protected by the mysterious power of feckin cliff notes. And so I went to sleep last night, oblivious.

This morning, bringing fresh eyes to this poem I reached the "cliff notes" with the usual reaction of seeing the logo of the Cliff energy bars when it flashed through my mind, but of course that must be something like Coles Notes study guides. Then I read the poem with fluid ease (not the heavy tread of yesterday) and saw for the first time (on probably the 10th read since yesterday) those wonderful lines I could not believe I had glossed over so mindlessly:

that reduce or amplify
every true spark of independence to
the mean

my mean
or maybe
the meaning of
to be without means
which means we failed​

Mouthing a silent (so as not ruin the fragile moment of awe) "Wow," I smiled inwardly at the sheer beauty of what was hidden in these seemingly simple lines. Three diverse meanings derived from the root "mean" plaited into a braid of powerful political opinion and managed as though with self effacing ease. There is nothing in the least laboured in those lines, which, as far as I'm concerned, is a mark of something to do with genius.

In conclusion, on the whole, when all is said and done, at the end of the day, bottom line, if I had not experienced such overwhelming pleasure from the artistry of these lines, I would have been overcome with envy.

Yep, it's a marvelous play on words, and yep "Cliff Notes" are like Coles Study Notes. Every American student has, at some point, either used or been warned away (by the teacher) from using Cliff Notes in lieu of actually reading the book or as an aid in writing the paper. That probably happens with Coles Notes, too, yes? Personally I prefer Sparknotes, but they weren't around when I was in school, darnit. Anyway, my mother wouldn't let me buy Cliff Notes. She said they were for cheaters. Lol, I hated her for it at the time but I managed to plow through all those books without em.

 

[DocktorWu]

thank you for reading

"In conclusion, on the whole, when all is said and done, at the end of the day, bottom line, if I had not experienced such overwhelming pleasure from the artistry of these lines, I would have been overcome with envy."

There is undeserved kindness in your words. I am glad you found something to ponder in my struggle with America. I love it completely but never ever blindly.

 

[bluerains]

some say

Why give politics your attention and I am giving mine in hopes of

O btaining
B alance
A tONEment
M erges
A merica

 

[bogusagain]

I squat like a Buddha
facing my seventh decade
with no impression made
on a world I no longer like

money is a prayer
god is a capitalist now
his children, economic units
disposable, when assets go bad

Jesus would be a loan shark
his effigy upon a golden pedestal
his cross reserved for the poor
to crucify them upon

 

[pelegrino]

Firstly I want to thank you, Bogusagain, for digging up this thread. I was unaware of its existence. I see, it has been abandoned since 2008 and that is a pity. I've read in it some amazingly good poetry by Angeline, lorencino, eagleyes, docktorWu, and finally by yourself. Never say you made not an impression. Well conceived political poetry never fails to make an impression and you are making always one on me, anyway.
I also followed through a very interesting exchange of ideas between lorencino and Seena Jawa.
I obviously agree more with lorencino, without denying some points made by Senna, although I sense that he is making these points not through any pro-capitalist stance as such, but merely through an anti-communist one, which of course is his prerogative.
I used to write quite a lot of political verse long ago (before I became infatuated with other matters), and going back to the year of this thread (2008), I dug out this following short ballade, which is based on true events (since the links to the long wikipedia articles). It is only describing a brief moment of the dates shown and in no way it is an attempt to describe the whole significance of the main event or its aftermath. Its main aim is to question our belief in the state or otherwise. I publish it here first for anyone's perusal, before submitting it to the main page.

By the way, I think god was always a capitalist. Little seems to have changed.



Note: This is one of very few political songs contained in an otherwise "erotic" story, whose "been erotic " does not mean at all that it is non-political. Public and private events described are all factual.

tags: LEMONIA (f)leap EDELTRAUD ===> (UNTITLED SPECIAL SECTION) ==> TOWN ROAMING

Ierapetra Police station
& Monastiraki Village
Saturday to Sunday night
6 & 7 December 2008

Random comment-Berlin 8/12/2008:
"One of the demonstrators told the Deutsche Presse-Agentur that the demonstration was in protest against a Greek state that was responsible for the death of the teenager. "​

to the memory of Alexandros Grigoropoulos

EXARCHEIA MURDER

(WHO'S TO PROTECT US FROM OUR PROTECTORS ?)


Roaming in town as we do, sometimes we oversee,
what's going on in this mad world, in motion or in resting,
we are too busy, deep in love, looking the angry sea,
tonight though we got stuck, the town is protesting.

A young teenager of fifteen got murdered by police...
the politicians hide in shame, media is criticizing,
angry wild people, young and old, are out all over Greece,
they throw missiles, burn down banks, to you this is surprising.

A young teenager of fifteen got murdered by police...
we seem to have about this fact a different understanding,
we live two hundred miles away, our life is a bliss,
I want us to agree on this and to explain my standing.

You come from far away lands, such things do not occur,
the state is all powerful, police provides protection,
who's to protect us from police? On this you're not too sure,
mad violence breeds mad violence, please, make this simple connection.

A state representative, a trigger-happy man,
without a cause shot a young lad with real ammunition,
the state will protect this scum, justice will not be done,
a life cut down in its sweet dawn, could you take his position?

A young life not allowed to thrive and to achieve its best,
just think about it, Lemonia, you are not that much older,
one would expect you to support this citizen's protest,
which, by the latest broadcast news, seems to be getting bolder.

This is protest against a state where punishment is scarce,
policemen do criminal work and no one goes to prison,
That's how the citizens came out, so we will see some worse,
don’t let your western Europe myths distort the face of reason.

It is not me, it is not you, such states represent,
they represent only a few who keep us hypnotized,
monopoly of life and death, all things with force are bent,
that's why the citizens respond, so, are you still surprised?

I'm not an anarchist at all, or a misguided youth,
the state murdered this young lad, could we accept such fate?
If not, let's joint this protest and shout the blaring truth:
Believing in the right to live, we can’t believe in state.

*****

"NAPOLEON" looks inviting, let's go to have our meal,
while trying to re-negotiate this "necessary" evil,
after all states "wither away" we will be roaming still,
I hope our love will outlive these states by god or devil.






​

 

[Senna Jawa]

Firstly I want to thank you, Bogusagain, for digging up this thread.

The last poem by Bogu in this thread is cowardish. There are two religions such that if you offend one of them then that religion presents you with its other cheek these days. When you offend the other religion then it chops your head off. I can't have any respect for this new poem. Osip Mandelstam paid for his political poem with Siberia, and ultimately with his life. One of many examples. I wonder how many of you took ever a chance to jeopardize your family's well-being, to risk your freedom or your life. Almost all your political "poems" are cheap and false. People only have political sentiments but without understanding, and this is horrible. The moment you put a political hat on your head you stop being any poet, you're just stupid.

I've read in it some amazingly good poetry by Angeline, lorencino, eagleyes, docktorWu, and finally by yourself.

Right! (You just got a sample of how "good" it is ).

Well conceived political poetry never fails to make an impression and you are making always one on me, anyway.

Bulat Okudzhava' s song, one of them, was about a youngster--Leo Kingman. Leo had respect of other youngster from the neighborhood, then he went to the War, and got killed. He was a king of his neighborhood but never married, and there was nobody to cry after him. There was not a single word about any communism, capitalism, workers, farmers, political parties... But this poem/song had a profound political depth which none of your favorite "poems" can ever have, not ever close, there will be a world of difference. Now you may think about it.

I also followed through a very interesting exchange of ideas between lorencino and Seena Jawa.

Would you provide a link?

I sense that he is making these points not through any pro-capitalist stance as such, but merely through an anti-communist one, which of course is his prerogative.

Pelegrino, you did it again. It's very unpleasant. Please, don't assign to me your ideas about me. If you want to involve me in a conversation at all (which is far from necessary, I am not any part of any topic, I just like to talk about poetry), then make the effort of understanding me. It's hard. You don't have to do it. But it's not nice when you talk garbage about me. I am not any pro- ar anty. I am human. It's hard for you to understand. Thus it's the best to leave me alone. Just focus on issues, not on me personally.

By the way, I think god was always a capitalist. Little seems to have changed

First of all, there is no place today for any serious discussion when one uses the term capitalism. This term was used and abused and interpreted and reinterpreted, and leads to misunderstandings and confusion, so much that any thoughtful discussion simply should not use it.

Now, about your wisdom phrase . It looks that you are not religious (I am not sure). But it simply makes no sense for a non-religious person to talk about god or God. You should leave god alone. Indeed, you make no sense, and you are at the same time extremely insensitive to other people.

This topic is more complex and subtle, I am simplified the rich world of people and art, but you got the main idea.

Best,

 

[Senna Jawa]

I see the exchange with lorencino, here is a quote:

Stalin's bureaucracy managed to move the country from an essentially feudal country at the end of WWI to an advanced industrial country by the beginning of WWII.​

This is symbolic of how ridiculous these discussions get.

Anyway, to seriously discuss politics, and PF&D is not really the place to do it, one should give up on this sick political jargon, one should think in their own words, and should truly think, on their own. Political garbage language can obscure everything.

 

[bogusagain]

The last poem by Bogu in this thread is cowardish. There are two religions such that if you offend one of them then that religion presents you with its other cheek these days.

I plot like Judas
facing my seventh decade
with no impression made
on a world I no longer like

money is a prayer
god is a capitalist now
his children, economic units
disposable, when assets go bad

Jesus would be a loan shark
his effigy upon a golden pedestal
his cross reserved for the poor
to crucify them upon


I litigate like a Pharisee
facing my seventh decade
with no impression made
on a world I no longer like

money is a prayer
god is a capitalist now
his children, economic units
disposable, when assets go bad

Jesus would be a loan shark
his effigy upon a golden pedestal
his cross reserved for the poor
to crucify them upon


Or is it my anti-capitalist stance and my blaspheming of the rightwing Judeo-Christian god of Wall Street that offends you Senna ?

 

[Senna Jawa]

Or is it my anti-capitalist stance and my blaspheming of the rightwing Judeo-Christian god of Wall Street that offends you Senna ?

Anti-smanty garbage. I wrote:

The last poem by Bogu in this thread is cowardish. There are two religions such that if you offend one of them then that religion presents you with its other cheek these days. When you offend the other religion then it chops your head off. I can't have any respect for this new poem.​

Also, shallowness is not something I crave. Your text(s) is quite cliched anyway.

 

[bogusagain]

Anti-smanty? Onzin.

 

[Angeline]

I have come to conclude it is impossible for me to write a political poem. People get so hung up on the message that they don't appreciate that I tried to write a poem. And maybe that's a problem too--any poem with an obvious message comes across as didactic or even pedantic.

That said I agree with the views Bogus expresses and I think they're something a lot of people would relate to now. I also don't see a bunch of cliches. But to try to compare something political with something more metaphorical is probably like trying to compare apples and oranges (yes, it's a cliche, but this is a post not a poem!). Just my opinion.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I have come to conclude it is impossible for me to write a political poem. People get so hung up on the message that they don't appreciate that I tried to write a poem. And maybe that's a problem too--any poem with an obvious message comes across as didactic or even pedantic.

That said I agree with the views Bogus expresses and I think they're something a lot of people would relate to now. I also don't see a bunch of cliches. But to try to compare something political with something more metaphorical is probably like trying to compare apples and oranges (yes, it's a cliche, but this is a post not a poem!). Just my opinion.

C'mon, Angeline, this Bogu's anti-Semitic "the rightwing Judeo-Christian god of Wall Street" is as old cliche as there ever was. This is no poem. It doesn't give you any understanding of our human world at all. It's just a sentimental (meaning totally thoughtless) prejudice. And this cliche is mixed with anti-Christian message too.

 

[Ashesh9]

It's Kejri vs Modi
In New Delhi
A rank outsider Newbie
Has gifted the Champ
Nose red , bloody !
It's Underdog takes all
Now Media's Darlin' : Kejri
How long he' ll last
Just wait'n see
Let's carefully watch
Jus' U'n Me ..................

 

[Senna Jawa]

It's Kejri vs Modi

In New Delhi
A rank outsider Newbie
Has gifted the Champ
Nose red , bloody !
It's Underdog takes all
Now Media's Darlin' : Kejri
How long he' ll last
Just wait'n see
Let's carefully watch
Jus' U'n Me ..................

Thank you for making it so easy to write poems. Now I can too:

It's Kacperek vs Osiński
In Warszawa and Kraków
A rank outsider Newbie
Has gifted the Champ
Nose red , bloody !
It's Underdog takes all
Now Media's Darlin' : Kacperek
How long he' ll last
Just wait'n see
Let's carefully watch
Jus' U'n Me .................​

Write your 30 in 30, and I will follow with my own 30 in 30. I am not sure about the meaning of the last line (J U M), but who cares? Poetry is supposed to be somewhat mysterious, right? I can even replace that line with most anything anytime.

 

[bogusagain]

C'mon, Angeline, this Bogu's anti-Semitic "the rightwing Judeo-Christian god of Wall Street" is as old cliche as there ever was. This is no poem. It doesn't give you any understanding of our human world at all. It's just a sentimental (meaning totally thoughtless) prejudice. And this cliche is mixed with anti-Christian message too.

Senna, just think! Anti-semiticism is a Christian problem. I was criticizing a Christian as well as a Jewish god. Come to that, the same god is an Islamic god!
Don't give me the anti-semiticism crap. You don't even know me. Such accusations are about shutting people up.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Anti-semiticism is a Christian problem.

There was/is anti-Semitism coming from Christians. There was anti-Semitism coming from fascists+socialists (Hitler, and others), from communists (Stalin, Khrushchev), there is anti-Semitism from all kind of the so-called liberals, from Arab and Moslem countries and regions, and there are many anti-Semites in many other countries around the world too, ... So, let's not worry about the ugly sources anymore. For the record, there are places in the US where groups of Christians and Jews have a joint church/synagogue building, and they coexist in harmony.

I was criticizing a Christian as well as a Jewish god. Come to that, the same god is an Islamic god!

You're CRITICIZING!? Why don't you write a poem instead? (I do--for instance: different world, different liveS, affinity, the cities of the city, ... -- and see what is what versus all those "political" texts).

Don't give me the anti-semiticism crap.

You've written anti-Semitic crap. Thus, don't complain.

You don't even know me.

I have never written anything about YOU. Only about your crappy text.

Such accusations are about shutting people up.

You're the one playing the intimidation game here, trying to shut me up, trying to prevent the truth glaring from your text.

OK, peace, nothing personal,

 

[Ashesh9]

Thank you for making it so easy to write poems. Now I can too:

It's Kacperek vs Osiński
In Warszawa and Kraków
A rank outsider Newbie
Has gifted the Champ
Nose red , bloody !
It's Underdog takes all
Now Media's Darlin' : Kacperek
How long he' ll last
Just wait'n see
Let's carefully watch
Jus' U'n Me .................​

Write your 30 in 30, and I will follow with my own 30 in 30. I am not sure about the meaning of the last line (J U M), but who cares? Poetry is supposed to be somewhat mysterious, right? I can even replace that line with most anything anytime.

Senna , J U M or Jus' U'n Me would refer to the Poet / Narrator / Observer & the People / Public / Electorate , OK ?
regds.,
Ash 9

 

[Senna Jawa]

Senna , J U M or Jus' U'n Me would refer to the Poet / Narrator / Observer & the People / Public / Electorate , OK ?
regds.,
Ash 9

Ash 9, thank you.

 

[bogusagain]

There was/is anti-Semitism coming from Christians. There was anti-Semitism coming from fascists+socialists (Hitler, and others), from communists (Stalin, Khrushchev), there is anti-Semitism from all kind of the so-called liberals, from Arab and Moslem countries and regions, and there are many anti-Semits in many other countries around the world too, ... So, let's not worry about the ugly sources anymore. For the record, the re are places in the US where groups of Christians and Jews have a joint church/synagogue, and they coexist in harmony.

You're CRITICIZING!? Why don't you write a poem instead. (I do--for instance: different world, different liveS, affinity, the cities of the city, ... -- and see what is what versus all those "political" texts).

You've written anti-Semitic crap. Thus don't complain.

I have never written anything about YOU. Only about your crappy text.

You're the one playing the intimidation game here, trying to shut me up, trying to prevent the truth glaring from your text.

OK, peace, nothing personal,

You're an intellectual coward. There is nothing anti-semitic in what I wrote. Have you ever heard rightwing Christian American capitalists who believe in the Judeo-Christian god? I am sure you have. Obviously, any Judiac influence on western culture is off limits according to you but I suspect if any other influence on western culture by any other source isn't. Criticism of a influence is not criticism of a source because the two are completely different things.

You don't like something, something hurts your feelings, you do what intellectual pygmies typically do in our day and age, accuse someone of racism or sexism or some other ism. It's cowardice.

Try taking your head out of your arse, it helps you to look in the mirror.

GOOD FUCKING BYE!

 

[Magnetron]

Pardon me ...

... but could someone please tell me if this is the appropriate forum for going bat shit mental when someone posts an opinion that we disagree with on the Internet?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Pardon me ...

... but could someone please tell me if this is the appropriate forum for going bat shit mental when someone posts an opinion that we disagree with on the Internet?

just as long as it's in poetic form the gee bee's the place for controversy, here be poets.

 

[butters]

just as long as it's in poetic form the gee bee's the place for controversy, here be poets.

you know this, i know this, angeline and most others here know this - but senna only believes senna's odd definition of one which kind of limits the numbers dramatically.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Shame on you!

Shame on you all(!) in this exchange. For the sake of stupid PF&D quarrels, and for the sake of appeasing your fellows on this board, you're insensitive to the most fundamental humanitarian values. You encounter one of the oldest and vicious prejudice, the tired combination of Judas, Judeo-, bankers, Wall Street, and that's it, you're done with thinking, everything is solved, you're a happy politician. Now you all know who is the source of all the EVIL over millennia. Congratulations guys. (And you're also deaf as a post to poetry--a hateful spit is poetry to you).