Political Poetry

[pelegrino]

Hi Seena, you did it again man!

I really don't have much time for participating in these forums anymore. Music takes 18 of my 24 hours every day, but I see situations developing in ugly ways and issues been confused again, so I take a little time to respond out of courtesy and for clarifying mainly three points:

1. I read your previous conversation with lorencino and I said that you are coming across to me not really as a pro-capitalist but mainly as an anti-communist. I agree that this is assigning my opinions on you, but that is how the world operates. I accept you and the whole world assigning opinions on me. Can I do anything else about it, or do I want to? Since you write something you leave it open to interpretation cause, anyway, you can not stop people forming opinions, or do anything else about it. I want to add that I had no intention with my little remark to show disrespect, and even if you think that my estimation was wrong, you can refute it, which you did. So, I don’t see any trouble there. Do you?
As you say, there is no need for getting involved in conversations, but if I feel inclined to comment on anything that you write be sure that I will whether you like it or not. You cannot really do anything to stop me or anyone else passing opinions on you whether right or wrong, so I think you should cool down and take it easy.
On the other hand I could take offence on a lot of remarks that you make sometimes, but I'm not that kind of guy, (I even like you a little).

2. You guessed right, I am not religious (so my wisdom phrase was indeed wise-much wiser than you can fathom). If it does not make sense to you that non-religious people can still talk about god, that is only you. It does make sense to me, so don’t try to tell me what I can talk about or not and whether it makes sense to you, either ignore it or confront it with real argumentation. We have freedom of speech, you know. If some people take my remark as insensitive, why should I care? I am very critical of all religions and they have to face the fact that there are millions like me on the planet. Further more, I believe that there is nothing under the sun (especially religions and metaphysical beliefs) that it is not subject and fair target to criticism, satire or even ridicule.
The world of ideas is a tough one so they should not be so sensitive.
Am I going to be accused of anti-Semitism too because I don’t believe in Jewish, or Christian, or Muslim or any other monotheistic system of ideas?
Really, think about this hard: You can not go about accusing people of anti-Semitism because they don’t believe in gods or for having different estimations than yours on religion's influence in society, and you did it already with Bogus.

3. You don’t seem to think that political art exists or if it does that it has any artistic merit. Well, you are very wrong.
In some sense all art is political from its conception and it will carry on been political until all human societies are really free and states are abolished. This is a Marxist idea, so I don’t expect you to sympathize with it or to try to understand it, but there you have it.
It is a good job that millions of political artists from Homer to Brecht with Dante and Shakespeare in between did not think like you do.
And yet, you write good poems! (sometimes)

Best regards and good luck.

P.S.
Before I had time to post this, I saw your latest post:

Shame on you all(!) in this exchange. For the sake of stupid PF&D quarrels, and for the sake of appeasing your fellows on this board, you're insensitive to the most fundamental humanitarian values. You encounter one of the oldest and vicious prejudice, the tired combination of Judas, Judeo-, bankers, Wall Street, and that's it, you're done with thinking, everything is solved, you're a happy politician. Now you all know who is the source of all the EVIL over millennia. Congratulations guys. (And you're also deaf as a post to poetry--a hateful spit is poetry to you).

You come across like a bitter old man, (and a little hysterical), not like the poet you are.
Please, catch yourself on. No one in here is your enemy.

 

[Angeline]

Shame on you all(!) in this exchange. For the sake of stupid PF&D quarrels, and for the sake of appeasing your fellows on this board, you're insensitive to the most fundamental humanitarian values. You encounter one of the oldest and vicious prejudice, the tired combination of Judas, Judeo-, bankers, Wall Street, and that's it, you're done with thinking, everything is solved, you're a happy politician. Now you all know who is the source of all the EVIL over millennia. Congratulations guys. (And you're also deaf as a post to poetry--a hateful spit is poetry to you).

You are wrong, Senna. You are pulling the phrases "Judeo-Christian" and "Wall Street" out of Bogus's post and conflating them with antisemitism. Bogus is not talking about some Jewish cabal and international money schemes--I know this is what you are thinking he intends, but you are wrong. I think his poem is about the dichotomy between the haves and the have nots, as well as the hypocrisy of using religion (Christianity mainly, I thought) to justify bad behavior.

That interpretation is not appeasement on my part--because I don't care whether I appease anyone here or not--it's just what I think Bogus meant. And for that matter, it's what he said he meant.

Also, if you want anyone to improve their ability to write poems based on anything you have to say, I'd suggest not being so nasty about it. Now please let us get back to poetry and if you can't stand it here, take a break.

That's all I have to say on the subject.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

A-men!

 

[Senna Jawa]

Music takes 18 of my 24 hours every day

Wow! Wonderful! (I'd be delighted if you wrote music to one of my texts but you must be busy with your own, and with other projects).

1. I accept you and the whole world assigning opinions on me. Can I do anything else about it, or do I want to? Since you write something you leave it open to interpretation cause, anyway, you can not stop people forming opinions, or do anything else about it.

Pelegrino, the idea is--when we discuss an issue (a topic)--to write about statements which we make, not about the persons as such. (You may say something like "this verse is sloppy" rather than "YOU are sloppy").

(I even like you a little).

Yes, you are a kind person, straight. You do have a positive attitude.

2. If it does not make sense to you that non-religious people can still talk about god, that is only you.

This was on my part an unfortunate shortcut. I meant that it is illogical (ILLOGICAL) to say for instance that (the abstract) god/God is a banker or similar. For the record, I am not religious, I did also write several poems which feature God or Jesus or Moses... However I do it like a poet. I assume the existing convention, I don't make it up. And I talk about them in the human terms like about any other Smiths and Greens and Townends and so on, in human terms, not by abusing poetry by a political thoughtless jargon, not by assigning to them or to anything arbitrary notions.

Am I going to be accused of anti-Semitism too ...

You're not fair now. I didn't give you or anybody any pretext to talk to me like this. I wrote very clearly about a TEXT. Read again--I stressed the fact that I have written only about the Bogu's TEXT. That's all. (I didn't accuse anybody of anything). Thus you were wrong to write to me the way you did, you were wrong to make false implications.

3. You don’t seem to think that political art exists or if it does that it has any artistic merit. Well, you are very wrong.

Most everything is political just like most everything is philosophical, etc. However, when authors provide readers with their political opinions then such texts are not poems but junk.

You come across like a bitter old man, (and a little hysterical)

This is really sad. Millions of people were murdered due in part to tolerating such prejudiced views and statements. Thousands upon the thousands are persecuted right now.

When the times seem more or less "normal" then you may think that such prejudices are harmless. The moment the times get rough then there will be millions of more murders done by many of these people who consider those prejudices harmless, exaggerated. That's how it has happened in the past in the otherwise cultural countries like Germany and Austria, and it was actually happening in many other countries too, except that they were less efficient in their horrible ways--thus now those other countries look more or less ok. If the horrible scenario will not take place then it will not be because of people which tolerate vicious, horrible prejudices.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Talent makes everything possible

With talent and skill one can write a poem about anything. But then one has to put a lot of artistic effort into such writing. One cannot just make arbitrary claims. For example--yes, one can justify a lot of different anthropomorphisms. So far only Leśmian was (superbly) successful in this.

Thus in principle, yes, someone can write a poem about a god who is a banker. But your poem will have to create its own world, etc. This should not be confused with the political pseudo-poems which try to promote their shallow thinking, i.e. the lack of it.

My own poems treat the gods like the ancient Greek poets did--I treat them like they were humans. The Jewish attitude was/is similar. Jews not only praise their God but also scold Him, bitch about Him, and similar.

 

[Ashesh9]

This thread has turned into an interestin' debate but Poetry has nothin' to do with this debate

 

[Magnetron]

Most everything is political just like most everything is philosophical, etc. However, when authors provide readers with their political opinions then such texts are not poems but junk.

There is plenty of garbage poetry out there covering every topic imaginable. You are not saying anything of value.

Some of this is non poetic junk meant to belittle and intimidate others, while some of this is non poetic junk meant to silence voices and critics.

I suggest you take your shame on you's and stick them far enough up your ass to where they can be re-absorbed through your intestines in order to filter out the hypocrisy from your hysterics.

 

[Magnetron]

You come across like a bitter old man, (and a little hysterical), not like the poet you are.

And here I was picturing a member of the Hitler Youth constantly pulling up the brown britches that are too big for him.

 

[Angeline]

There is plenty of garbage poetry out there covering every topic imaginable. You are not saying anything of value.

Some of this is non poetic junk meant to belittle and intimidate others, while some of this is non poetic junk meant to silence voices and critics.

I suggest you take your shame on you's and stick them far enough up your ass to where they can be re-absorbed through your intestines in order to filter out the hypocrisy from your hysterics.

And here I was picturing a member of the Hitler Youth constantly pulling up the brown britches that are too big for him.

Please use the ignore feature rather than attack someone here. None of these posts are about you, and saying stuff to get a rise out of someone just prolongs the pain for everyone here. Most of us just want to focus on poetry. Thanks, Mag.

 

[Magnetron]

Please use the ignore feature rather than jump on the bandwagon to attack someone here. None of these posts are about you, and saying stuff to get a rise out of someone just prolongs the pain for everyone here. Most of us just want to focus on poetry. Thanks, Mag.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of someone making an issue out of bullying and junk poetry who has demonstrated a habit of bullying others with junk poetry.

I'm choosing to address someone's else's behavior instead of ignoring it, just as you had addressed said behavior.

I'm not jumping on any bandwagon if I am volunteering an opinion completely independent of yours or anyone else's.

Sometimes tough love is necessary to get through the thickest of skulls.

 

[Magnetron]

And then there are some skulls that are too thick.

More tantrumatic bullying junk from the poet having a tantrum about bullying and junk poetry.

--

the bat guano eater
from the Guano Bat
with his
stink oozing muzzle
turns the
Pristine Finesse & Delicacy
into a
Pathetic Fucking Disaster
-- ugh!
​

-

 

[Senna Jawa]

it's just what I think Bogus meant. And for that matter, it's what he said he meant.

It's not what one means but what one says. The way it smells the way it is (and that's what it attracts, ugh).

 

[Angeline]

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of someone making an issue out of bullying and junk poetry who has demonstrated a habit of bullying others with junk poetry.

I'm choosing to address someone's else's behavior instead of ignoring it, just as you had addressed said behavior.

I'm not jumping on any bandwagon if I am volunteering an opinion completely independent of yours or anyone else's.

Sometimes tough love is necessary to get through the thickest of skulls.

I'm not interested in arguing with you. I imagine you will just be ignored anyway.

 

[Magnetron]

I'm not interested in arguing with you. I imagine you will just be ignored anyway.

And here you thought I was arguing with you instead of just stating the facts.

 

[Senna Jawa]

you write good poems! (sometimes)​

Indeed,

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.​

Best, regards,

 

[Senna Jawa]

Einstein's window -- wh, 1988/08/10

--

Einstein's window​

1​

you must derive your strength
from Earth populated by
a hundred members of
your own family living
within a hundred miles

and from another hundred
dispersed further away like
night-lights outside a city

i wish i knew that feeling
i wish my children would

2​

i had little to do with the bold flowers
which my wife grew in the backyard
my aunt acted theatrical
suddenly she had tears in her eyes
while I'd cut a red rose--
i'll take her back with me
and lie her down on the grave of your grandmother
my aunt said

the dead rose went over the steel ocean
to keep my grandma company
my grandmother was my aunt's mother

3​

far from Earth
there must be Einstein's house
its open window swings
in the gravitational draft

the Earth's plants and animals and us
from the future and from the past
hide in the opaque shade of non-being

the precious few bask
in the sun-light reflected from
the moving Einstein window
but my one and only aunt
is already in the shadow

4​

clouds in the blue sky move with dignity
their liquid shadow is rapid


​

wh
1988-08-10

-

 

[bogusagain]

It's not what one means but what one says. The way it smells the way it is (and that's what it attracts, ugh).

Maybe you've just got bad sinuses, maybe you can't tell a rose from a turd because that is what it appears like to me.

"Most everything is political just like most everything is philosophical, etc. However, when authors provide readers with their political opinions then such texts are not poems but junk."

So Paradise Lost is junk? So William Blake is junk? So Charles Dickens is junk? Orwell is junk? And many others. All write clear attacks on corrupt establishments.

The depoliticizing of art, the refusal of art to acknowledge the world in which it exists, is very useful for comfortable people feeling comfortable with themselves. It allows them to pretend the warm slippers in which they walk are the same slippers walked in by the people they ignore.


"This is really sad. Millions of people were murdered due in part to tolerating such prejudiced views and statements. Thousands upon the thousands are persecuted right now."

Since when has an an attack on capitalism been an incitement to mass murder? Considering the capitalist establishment is as guilty as the communist establishment and fascism in facilitating and committing mass murder, I think you are blind in one eye.

 

[bogusagain]

As far as political poems go, this proves everything you say wrong about opinions not being art. Poems To The People Art has often been used to rally people, to wake them up and rally them to a cause. The Romans did it, the Anglo-Saxons did it, shit! The Americans did it. Much of what we see in art galleries around the world and which sits in the literary canon was produced as propaganda and opinion. Because time has eroded away its original meaning, does that mean time has made it better art because such art can simply be studied and appreciated for its aesthetic value? I don't think so. It has simply become neutered and wall decoration.

As to whether that cause is right or wrong is another matter. But when liberal capitalism is impoverishing millions just so liberal capitalism doesn't have to admit there are alternative economic solutions to Wall Street's (and London City etc etc.) let the rich get rich and fuck the poor form of capitalism, we all have to shut up or be accused of anti-semiticism to shut them up. The western establishment and I am not referring to any mythical Jewish Cabal, I'm referring to the psychopathic behaviour of western capitalist establishment, is rotten in heart and soul because it is causing poverty and hardship for its own short term vested interests.

 

[Senna Jawa]

[...] maybe you can't tell a rose from a turd

Was the stench from the Goebbelsian cockroach--which showed up in this thread--roses to you?

So Paradise Lost is junk? So William Blake is junk? So Charles Dickens is junk? Orwell is junk? And many others. All write clear attacks on corrupt establishments.

The profound literature has nothing to do with your productions in this thread. You don't care for making subtle (subtle to you ) distinction between different kinds of literature which address the political issue. Poetry should address political issues just like it should address most any issue. But it should be done in a poetic way, not in a trivial political way void of poetry.

And Bogu, stop usurping a lot of good literature. It has nothing to do with your texts or any such shambo-mambo. It's offensive.

Now you are quoting my statement:

"This is really sad. Millions of people were murdered due in part to tolerating such prejudiced views and statements. Thousands upon the thousands are persecuted right now."​

Then you're continuing:

Since when has an an attack on capitalism been an incitement to mass murder? Considering the capitalist establishment is as guilty as the communist establishment and fascism in facilitating and committing mass murder, I think you are blind in one eye.

Your intentions may be nice (I wonder ) but it's irrelevant. People don't understand and they do not care to understand what you're saying. You don't understand and you don't care to understand what you are mumbling. The moment you give the public a few key words like Judas, capitalism, loan shark, ... you amplify hate in some people, and at any time they are ready for extremal violence. That's the Historical Lesson of the past millennia, and especially of from WWII. (BTW, your texts do not make any sense, they do not explain anything, they are intellectually void).

**************

Bogu, it's time to define for us the notion of capitalism. If you define as A+B+C then it is just an economic-political notion which has no emotion attached to it. Or you may define it as A+B+C+(D+F). Then keep, I don't care to use it for any analisys because it's not useful. However, and here is the problem, people say that capitalism is A+B+C+(G+H). As long as people make clear what definition they use, everything is fine. UNFORTUNATELY, people use in the same discussion different definitions of capitalism. Here is the popular trick:

a person criticise capitalism by using one definition while they discredit capitalism using a different definition. It's dishonest, it's stupid, but that how it is, and that's why a serious discussion should not use the notion of capitalism.​

I know, Bogu, how obstinate you are, and that you will not get it at all, but I hope that some other people will, at least one.

So, if you like, you may define capitalism, something like B+S+T+Z. Then explain your definition in your text (but in a poem make it artistic!!!). Bad luck wants it that hardly anybody cares about any definition. They salivate like mad dogs.

**********************

And the last detail . It's completely arbitrary when you decide that [I am quoting you now]: Jesus would be a loan shark. Oh, just like this. It's ridiculous. It doesn't even have anything to do with anybody being or not being religious. It is just stupid. Indeed, there exist a large body of literature. As a rule, great poems are obtained by honoring the existing culture, the result of centuries of development. This gives us in poetry the valuable shortcuts, it provides us with defaults which make poetry deep. Occasionally people contradict the tradition, I was doing it myself too. But you need to show at least a bare minimum of talent, of effort, of thinking, ... You cant just declare Jesus to be a loan shark, c'mon .

 

[bogusagain]

And the last detail . It's completely arbitrary when you decide that [I am quoting you now]: Jesus would be a loan shark. Oh, just like this. It's ridiculous. It doesn't even have anything to do with anybody being or not being religious. It is just stupid. Indeed, there exist a large body of literature. As a rule, great poems are obtained by honoring the existing culture, the result of centuries of development. This gives us in poetry the valuable shortcuts, it provides us with defaults which make poetry deep. Occasionally people contradict the tradition, I was doing it myself too. But you need to show at least a bare minimum of talent, of effort, of thinking, ... You cant just declare Jest to be a loan shark, c'mon .

Now you are talking out of your arse and even that is blinkered. You have a set idea of what culture is and how its icons can be used and it has to be YOUR view of culture and your use of icons. You are trapped in your own perspective, unable to understand that many people read symbols and icons different to you because they have a different experience of them to you. The real problem with YOUR view culture is that to most people it is irrelevant, which is why poetry is disappearing up its own arse, having more people who write it than read it. A culture where more books are published writing about poetry than actual poetry books published, because no one is reading it. CULTURE IS WHAT PEOPLE DO, NOT WHAT SOMEONE TELLS THEM IT IS.

You're point about Jesus is stupid and irrelevant, especially when considering the profitability of religion and selling Jesus in the USA and which unfortunately, is being exported over here. In fact, western capitalism has never been against or backward in the use of religion in backing up its claimed values.

You're equations are meaningless. People understand what capitalism I mean, the speculative money markets where over 90% of the transactions are parasitic and exploitative and don't add to the real economy but impoverish it. The money markets and corporate capitalism are all linked and work together.

Your accusations of racism are just a cheap shot and lacks dignity. As has been pointed out in the post Charlie Hebdo free speech campaign. Our culture is very good at defending free speech against people we (officially) don't like but we are very intolerant of free speech when it comes to criticisms aimed at people and values of western establishments. Defending the money markets by accusing someone of racism should be beneath you but obviously it isn't.

BTW Is being anti-Marxist anti-semitic, considering Marx was Jewish? This argument has nothing to do with Jewish people, or at least no more than any other ethnic or racial group.

 

[Senna Jawa]

People understand what capitalism I mean,

People don't. But at least let's see what you mean.

the speculative money markets where over 90% of the transactions are parasitic and exploitative and don't add to the real economy but impoverish it. The money markets and corporate capitalism are all linked and work together.

Capitalism or not but this is a basic issue. I thought about these things, and other like this, on my own over dozens of years. If you did too then you should not sound like a parrot. Show that you understand things. I can do it. I did. My knowledge is still fractional but already significant. I call it Art of Agreement. And I don't need any big terminology. I write in simple words, avoiding any misunderstanding due to the overloaded terms. Thus 19 times out of 20, those who use loaded terms don't have any understanding. They bluff, they are arrogant, they deceive, etc. Many are brainwashed, even when it is self-brainwashing. Some experts may have specialized knowledge about certain economic mechanisms and instruments. But even they don't have, as a rule, distance, they don't have an overall picture.

My goal was not to achieve the understanding by myself. On the contrary, my whole idea was to involve people. I don't have the ability to do so (to involve people). Thus I was doing my thinking mostly alone. In poetry there were Chinese poets, skalds, Japanese... and relatively good literary critics of the oriental poetry; and I even read a work by an expert of skald poetry. All this helped a lot. But in the case of economy and politics the situation is not that good (unless I find unknown to me super sources--it's a bit late for me though).

The basic ideas are simple. Like with weiqi (GO): the rules are simple, but the game is deep and profound. Libertarian's (an American term) views are close to mine.

 

[bogusagain]

People don't. But at least let's see what you mean.

Capitalism or not but this is a basic issue. I thought about these things, and other like this, on my own over dozens of years. If you did too then you should not sound like a parrot. Show that you understand things. I can do it. I did. My knowledge is still fractional but already significant. I call it Art of Agreement. And I don't need any big terminology. I write in simple words, avoiding any misunderstanding due to the overloaded terms. Thus 19 times out of 20, those who use loaded terms don't have any understanding. They bluff, they are arrogant, they deceive, etc. Many are brainwashed, even when it is self-brainwashing. Some experts may have specialized knowledge about certain economic mechanisms and instruments. But even they don't have, as a rule, distance, they don't have an overall picture.

My goal was not to achieve the understanding by myself. On the contrary, my whole idea was to involve people. I don't have the ability to do so (to involve people). Thus I was doing my thinking mostly alone. In poetry there were Chinese poets, skalds, Japanese... and relatively good literary critics of the oriental poetry; and I even read a work by an expert of skald poetry. All this helped a lot. But in the case of economy and politics the situation is not that good (unless I find unknown to me super sources--it's a bit late for me though).

The basic ideas are simple. Like with weiqi (GO): the rules are simple, but the game is deep and profound. Libertarian's (an American term) views are close to mine.

Huh? Loaded terms? The whole world is loaded. We are kept in our place with loaded terms. Money is abstract and we are told there is no money tree but of course there is a money when it comes to the vested interests of the capitalist markets and it is ordinary people in the real economy who have to provide the manure with their labour and taxes. The economic pain required to keep parasitic liberal capitalism (and I use the term parasitic capitalism as opposed to just capitalism which is an amorphous term) afloat is felt by millions who are being pushed into poverty and all because capitalism has bought western democracy or should I say, shamocracy.

Everyone is a libertarian until a bigger libertarian with a bigger punch comes along. The world knows about American libertarianism in the same way it knw about British libertarianism before it. You can't get a cigarette paper between them.



out of devilment I toss a coin
observe its vertical flight, its rapid spin
the blur of insect wings, an effortless turbulence
generated by my dextrous hands
a dull buzz whistles into a shrill whine
hair becomes cartoon and stands, alive with static
a hairline crack zips and accelerates
zooming and fracturing as it streaks
through the inner city and beyond the suburbs
by the time the coin is back in my hand
a hemisphere away is a thunderous conclusion
FLITZZ! BOOM! KERRAACK!

if a coin can do this much damage, what about fistful
what about a bank full, exercising and generating latent energy
charging the earth until it can’t contain itself, then …
there’s too much excessive potential
some short circuit, some dangerous overload
rubber boots and gloves will soon become de rigeuer
though even they couldn’t isolate the voltage
a woman with a rubber fetish, it’s all a death trap

the economist and the banker (spoken in a music hall rhythm)
carry on like Carry On and carry on
theories full of double entendres
crises caused through innuendo
just as you pop with the bust
like a doctor, they tell you, you are ill

from drama company to drama company
an amateur traumatic in need of a part
a leper with a begging bowl to piss in
they do and send you on your way
the chancellor is an actor, who
feels your pain, then hands you the blame

a game of Russian roulette
someone will get the bullet but who
probably some dirt farmer growing beans
(OK, what has he to do with this poem?)
the game requires a scapegoat
it keeps the play in motion
​

half a world away a dirt farmer bends his back
the weight of his spade as he turns the residual dust
his shoulders round as he arches to the point of snapping
his bones, the trunk road of his anatomy
how he branches out like a tree
how the cloying hands of his ancestors sprout
through the dirt and knot about his ankles
this is you, we are all dirt farmers now


You can pull it apart as having no culture but it was widely understood by many other people who have no culture.

 

[Magnetron]

You are trapped in your own perspective, unable to understand that many people read symbols and icons different to you because they have a different experience of them to you. The real problem with YOUR view culture is that to most people it is irrelevant, which is why poetry is disappearing up its own arse, having more people who write it than read it. A culture where more books are published writing about poetry than actual poetry books published, because no one is reading it. CULTURE IS WHAT PEOPLE DO, NOT WHAT SOMEONE TELLS THEM IT IS.

This.

Everyone has different associations. Words are symbols with different meanings to different people.

But poetry is also likewise not well received because poets are too busy writing for other poets who are more conditioned to interpret symbols. When readers walk away scratching their heads and move onto something else, it's blamed on "audience failure".

 

[bogusagain]

This.

Everyone has different associations. Words are symbols with different meanings to different people.

But poetry is also likewise not well received because poets are too busy writing for other poets who are more conditioned to interpret symbols. When readers walk away scratching their heads and move onto something else, it's blamed on "audience failure".

I always bear in mind the quote from the late Adrian Mitchell, who was also a political poet (and a best seller) so would be classed as a none poet by many who laud poetry orthodoxy "Most people ignore most poetry because most poetry ignores most people."

 

[pelegrino]

On the free market question under discussion I definitely agree with Bogus, also on whether poetry is/should be political and address itself to real life and real people again, in any way a poet can manage to do it.
Since this started as a political poetry thread, here is a little contribution which I published last week in the main page, relevant, I think, to the discussion, and whoever objects to it, tough shit.



ON FREE MARKET VALUES

Arguing with free market sharks,
my brain is flushing, throwing sparks,
when they are trying to justify
their deals that make people die.

So, you are right to boost your price
and have your merchandise bought,
but be prepared for a surprise:
Some are prepared to cut your throat.

Arguing with people of your kind,
social progress gets behind,
as you are trying to explain,
free market values, all in vane.

I've heard it all before, wild shark,
I know only the result,
I dare you, go out when it's dark,
to preach about "free market cult".

To see how every down and out
who wants some food, but goes without,
taking your sermon in slow pace,
will turn to spit at your fat face.

But there'll be others, fast and rough,
who never had and shall have not,
telling your "values" where to stuff,
and maybe those will slush your throat.

Ooh, it's so cool for them to kill,
that's how free market meets free will!
So, I'd be careful in your shoes,
cause after all, what's there to loose?