Poll for SRP writers & Moderators

[Snork Maiden]

A Message From ms Popularity

SweetP you do a thankless task I don't think any of us hold you or ARaynes responsible for this issue it is one you have been given to manage. It's time for those responsible, hiding behind you to come forward and face the people.

Yes I vocalise as do Chele, Chanaud and Mya, thats good it shows at least some of us are brave enough to stand up and say what's on our minds even at the sake of making ourselves unpopular, I thank them too for not leaving me looking like a lemon on the battlefield.

Tragically ofcourse four dissenting voices is not going to make any difference. Especially with comments like if it happens it happens life moves on and some of the other appathetic posts made in the safety of a friendly circles.

Well if people really want the OOCs to stay unchanged then they have damned well got to get of their backsides and stop sitting on the fence and voice it personally.

I have to say if I was Laurel I would be laughing my ass off at the pathetic show of unity and vocalization.

All authors that post in OOC's should down pens for a week lets see how that bites, but of course it won't happen because you see, this world has 3 types of people.

The ones that will stand up and say this is not right, in public and screw what other people think of them for saying it.

The ones that mutter and moan in private and try to look like they are sincere amongst peers but when it comes to crunch time they just collapse and fall in line saying "Oh well".

And then there are the just 'I don't care' types that are happy to take the benefits that others have fought for and sacrificed for, and what is commonly known as a parasite.

Well we can argue the merits of a vote, which I always maintained was rigged from the start, or we can petition. And Petition means put your name to, just like the signing of the Declaration of Independance, that wasn't a vote, it was a petition with real names inked on it.

It's time to stand up and say what you think, that's what freedom of speech is really all about, and having the guts to stand up and say it.

 

[Sweetp4u]

It's just an option to be voted on, not really a war.

Now as for questions and answers, I was saving time and being helpful. I get a ton of pm's from people asking questions from SRP, and I figured instead of just linking them and telling them to find it themselves I would help out and answer the questions. If it isn't wanted, I have no problem removing them.

The annoucements was for people to use instead of making a new thread to say "hey im gone for the weekend", I believe as you do Chelle, use PM's! but that's asking too much lol. If it isn't wanted I won't bother with it.

Laurel was going to put a sub-forum into both orp and srp for this purpose (note: IF IT WAS WANTED), so I was asked to poll both places and see what was up with it.

To those who pointed out the multiple id's voting, I just found that out last night talking to someone who had ten id's who jokingly said he was going to vote and vote.. Etc I made him give me his word he wouldnt tip the scales unfairly and vote. We are all adults here, I could debate in the open without a single problem, reguardless of who may hate me for my opinion. But some could think its better anon. to vote.

I said earlier I am taking everything into consideration, and this debate here actually gives me a better idea than a silent poll. I will quote again, "With the freedom of speach comes great responcibilities". How that pertains here? Someone has to deal with the crap no one else wants to deal with.

And yes, if there was a sub-forum my sticky threads would be moved as well! But hell since it's unwelcomed and considered clutter,I'll just remove them. I could go through Rick's and Inn's but I trust that the adults in here who read the announcements would be mature enough to go in and remove the attachments that weren't allowed in the post bodies. I'm not going to breath down someones neck, I ask if it isnt complied with.. well I can remove the entire thread.

Now in defense of the sticky's, not every new comer to lit is going to read through I dont know how many pages of chit chat to find what they need, hence the questions and answers.
Annoucements, would you rather me go in there and delete the "im horny" someone threw in there because it wasn't really important? Can't do that, it's freedom of speach. I could sit here and post a thread right now, that didnt even pertain to SRP and just start insulting anyone and everyone. Doesnt break lit rules, it's freedom of speach. Someone could jump into your 'well established' stories and start slinging mud left and right, disturbing your thread and writers, and guess what? It's freedom of speach, doesnt have to be removed. My point is, to some ppl things have their places here in lit. And to lit threads have their places as well. Its not stopping your freedom of speach. Rick's could survive (if you wanted it too) in any thread! Just because its not in srp doesnt mean it's going to die. Same with my questions and answers.
Yes they were made specificly for SRP for the SRP writers. Not someone who never visits our board. Thats why they are there, clubs and all. This idea was to branch off srp, but keep things in SRP that belong there. If you feel it should stay in srp, say so. I am listening, but at the same time I will not be kicked because you feel I'm being 'unfair'. Unfair would be to not listen to a word you have to say and do my job.
Hell, my sticky's belong elsewhere, so do many things. So dont think that this new sub forum wouldnt effect me either. Now before you respond to this, Im not attacking anyone in here. I like hearing true feelings, not buttered up ones. It helps me to know what is best to do. Have a good day everyone
Sweet

 

[Morgana]

Just a couple of things...

If it does come down to a vote, I think a public vote is a good idea. It just seems too easy to tamper with the process through the anonymous way. And, as stated earlier, we are all adults here.

I'm for keeping the OOCs where they are. They're easy to find, for one thing, and, if kept on the SRP board it just naturally links them closer to SRP. I honestly don't see how they "clutter" up the board. Has anyone ever NOT gotten to a thread they wanted to post to because of the presence of the OOCs? I highly doubt it.

Just my very brief 2 cents.

 

[mya]

Speaking of childish...

well I can remove the entire thread

Yes, with being a moderator, comes a bit of power SweetP...but with the power, also comes responsiblity. Wield it wisely.



Edit...Oops. I forgot to mention-- Snork...It's good to see you in here with us. Thanks.

 

[Sweetp4u]

It isnt childish Mya, it is the truth. Its a simple thing asked, not alot of trouble. Ive spent already an hour going through 40 pages of rooftop... Guess how many pages there are and how long it will take me? I dont make the rules, I follow them. Its my job, like it or not. And sometimes what crap I get is not worth it, but I stick to it.
The rule is simple so Lit can not be sued. No copy righted images in the post body. Not my rule, theirs. Does it make sense? Worse case scenario, lit gets sued and is no more. Best case, no one finds the attachments and bitches about them. but always be prepared for the worse to happen and take no chances since we love this place here for all of us.
And to make sure rooftop was handled right, I sent the link to Laurel to look over, she's a better judge on what is and isnt CR'd in there. So, still think I am being childish?

 

[mya]

So instead of worrying about copyright issues, remove the ability to post pics then!

About copyright, it's funny how no one worries so much about folks stealing others words. I bet that happens too, but that is never the issue here. It's always the pics. Odd.

I'm not going to argue childishly about being childish or not.

 

[Snork Maiden]

Ok.. Ok guys this is getting personal and we're adults right !

The debate is about moving the OOC's to a sub forum not the copyrighted pics posted in them, thats a different issue. I am certain everyone at Rick's and the Pearl or where ever it applies is conforming with your wishes to remove copyrighted pics.

This talk of thread deletion is very disturbing. Rick's constitutes a written history of activities on LIT, like a open personal diary for a lot of people, deleting it would be an incredibly painful act.

I know, I saw it happen to the Pearl earlier this year, it caused a lot of pain. Many had poems posted there that they had not kept hard copies of and other items too.

Let's not even go to that level, if a thread has to be ended, close it the vbBulletin application allows threads to be closed without deletion.

Ok, so on this one lets help our moderators out and keep the debate friendly and focused on the issue at hand, "OOC removal to a subforum"

Snork

edited to correct some of my appauling grammar and spelling

 

[Sweetp4u]

Why? Because adults need to be baby sat because they can't follow the rules? I believe 99% here follow the rules, and the few who post pictures here intend no harm for those pictures posted. But reality of the world is, ppl love lawyers and love to hand out law suits. Lit's only protecting themselves and yet still giving freedom to post their own personal pictures.
Tho that is a good point, I can talk to Laurel about removing the attachment option in SRP. then for our 'little corner' the problem is solved. It's been insinuated I am too 'lazy' to go through 300+ pages and edit, I'm not. But I figured the adults in there would be kind of enough to fix something against lit rules. Was I wrong? I went through Rooftop and a few other threads and found images attached. BUT instead of removing them, "better to be safe than sorry" bit, I pm'd Laurel and await her responce on what is and isnt permitted. Yes it is a touchy subject about these pictures, but not much I can do about it. I respect Lit's need to protect themselves and I respect ppl's needs to express themselves. But I have rules to follow, and I dont break them.
It isnt childish to remove these pictures, its the job. It isnt childish to put clubs into playground, its the job. Yes it is my choice, are they moved? I've been taking insults left and right, tho very well hidden, Have I done one childish "im gonna get even with these people" action??? Come on, I'm smarter than that as well as forgiving as well. some like you some dont, I cant change it but im not going to make you suffer because you dislike me. You dont even want to know what Ive been called in Pm's, those definately werent nice, but those out there who have said it are still walking around undisturbed. Realize something, this isnt me against you. This was just an idea suggested to me and passed on to you. If you'd rather stop right here and stop debating and what not and let me decide what to do later down the road so be it. I wouldnt have this job if I was doing it wrong, they can take it away as well as give it. And dont think they dont check up on me, lol I am sure they do often. If not get pm'd about my 'evil' ways.

 

[mya]

It's rare for anything or anyone to anger me as much as this issue Snork.

I have taken this very personal, though I am trying hard not to. And from where I sit (rightly or wrongly), a person with power in any situation (not just Lit.) must use it wisely. When I feel or see a situation (in RL more so than Lit, but it comes out here also), where I feel that power imbalance comes out in unfair ways, I go on the offensive.

 

[mya]

SweetP...I ask honestly and calmly and sincerley...

Are the pictures that get posted to the OOC's the real issue here?

or is that a separate issue?

 

[Sweetp4u]

The "I can delete them" was just the truth. it does not mean I WILL. Hell.. Everyone is so eager to believe the worst of me without even knowing me. I'm not moving clubs, I am not forcing anything down anyone's throat. just vote, give your 2 ¢ about the sub forum and stop believing I am out to hurt the world.

when you say "use it wisely" you mean how everyone ELSE wants me to use it. Right? It isnt humanly possible to make each and every one of the SRP writers here happy, and still do my job. It isn't and asking that is unfair. Or perhaps I should just let the moderator job be taken away because I dont want to 'hurt' anyone by removing a picture or deleting a thread/ moving a thread that doesnt belong in here?
(that doesnt pertain to ooc clubs thats just story threads)

You can be angry and you can be upset, hell even with me if you like. But judging me for doing a job I have YET to do isnt nice either.

and to Ari, i read the posts, I seen the posted pm I sent you and the comments. Ty Star and yes I've read rooftop off and on for awhile now, but never posted to it. And I see his point, it is a nice place and fun for all those who go in there and participate, even those who read it. By 'chatty" i meant no insult but the basic explanation that it is where friends "chat".
Ive seen playground as well, and I see what you don't want. I am not narrow minded here folks, I am listening. But do me a favor? Give me a chance here, dont jump to conclusions that Im some cruel bitch.

 

[Sweetp4u]

this thread is for debating the sub forum and the pro's and con's. The picture thing isnt JUST ooc clubs, by no means is it just ooc clubs. Its all threads that need cleaned up.

 

[mya]

So in your job as moderator, have you been directed by someone else to consider moving (or that matter not moving) of the OOCs?

Please help me understand better.

 

[Sweetp4u]

ok everything is coming out of my fingertips wrong..

I am using this mod thing wisely and carefully for All parties.
I think carefully before I ever act in here.

I asked laurel about ooc clubs because I wasn't just going to ship off the clubs to playground. (this wasnt because I hate these clubs, it is because of a rule about keeping the forum clean.)

I asked about the picture things and reasons and got an explanation and passed it on and asked nicely. (this again isnt because I hate pictures in threads, but because of a rule given to us mod's)

I do not expect ari or cg to completely clean out their clubs, or lonnnng threads the starter to clean them up all by themselves either. I am here to help and i will go through them. When I come to something I dont know about or I am unsure of, I ask laurel.

The votes do count here, the opinions are listened to and by friday ths thread will be gone as well as the post and I will PM Laurel with what Ive learned from this debate.

Yes I get defensive as you do mya, its human nature.. when I feel wrongly accused I lay it all out there. The things that are rules, I can or dont have to initiate (sp?) are up to me. Same with Ar and what she feels is best. We aren't rash in anything we do here, we think about what our 'friends' or co-writers would want, Lit expects and how best to do this job.

Some insight
Sp

 

[Sweetp4u]

I have had a few pm's reguarding clubs. Not many, I recently read a clear and precise explanation of the rules I hadnt seen before as well.
No one has pm'd me about NOT moving them. But I know how ppl who write in them feel, Now. reguardless of the out come of this, the threads called ooc's are remaining in srp. Be it sub forum or srp board. They are not a hassle. Again this was an idea.
I cant promise forever here guy's i really cant. And I dont see a problem in the future with them either. If they ever get too numerous then again this might arise as a topic. the sub forum is just an improvement (to some) and/or a pain in the ass ( to others)
Thats why Laurel and I are holding a debate on it. It wont be forced guys. whether it is made or not, i will tell Laurel the honest opinions on this. So far those who write in them are very against it and dont want a cess pool forming. And those who don't write in them think a sub forum is alright. Very few who have written in them before or still are feel it's alright. See, Im listening

 

[mya]

Sometimes (and I said sometimes) rules need to be reviewed and revised. I'm wondering if the rule that would require you to move the OOC out of SRP is one of them.

I understand you have a job to do SweetP...and that if one of those rules is that OOCs don't belong in SRP (though it's likely a more general rule than that), then I understand that you feel you must move it.

IF on the other hand, there is a rule somewhere that you follow that says something more general (i.e. only SRP is allowed in SRP), and that rule's been there since Lit began and before OOC's were even dreamed of, then we as Lit users need to support you by taking this issue to the place/people where that rule can be changed or at least reviewed for change. That would mean you wouldn't be the centre of a debate (or an attack...and I'm sorry if that's how I've come across) for which you have no control.

Does that make sense SweetP? I just want to know if you are simply enforcing rules that are in place (i.e. doing your job), or if you've had some directive in the last few days to either move the OOC's or debate the moving of the OOC's.

 

[chanaud]

SweetP, you've defended yourself left and right, but you have yet answered the issue to having an open poll. Your 'friend' promised you not to stuff the ballot. How well do you know him/her? Are you that trusting with internet 'friends'? What about others with multiple handles or ISP's? Will you even consider having an open poll?

Everything was fine until you decided that OOC Clubs were 'in the way'. We are only talking about 5 clubs here. How can 5 clubs cause clutter? I suspect, and I use the word 'suspect' strongly that you have another agenda. I understand OOC's are not your forte. It's not mine either. But, please don't misuse your moderator power for your personal agenda.

You have claimed that people have accused you of playing 'God". Have you stopped to wonder why? When Hecate and ShyGuy were moderators, they kept a low profile. They allowed us to handle our issues. Threads were not removed unless they were necessary. They did not interfere with the debates that occured occassionly here at SRP. They treated us like adults. Since they left, and I should leave ARaynes out, because she is keeping a low profile as far as I know, new rules are being enforced on us. Stickies appeared with a tone that appears 'God like'.

Look around the Boards. Forums with the most dissention are the heavily moderated ones. Heavily ruled boards do not work especially when 'Freedom of Speech' banners are waved above our heads. Yes, we do have a few rules. They are necessary. We abide by those rules. Why do we need more? I think the charm of Literotica is we are able to voice our opinions or post threads without being judged. Yes, some are rude. Some even seem childish. It doesn't matter. They have a right to post because it's all about the 'Free Speech'.

Ok, I've rambled long enough. I hope the above makes sense. <grin>

<waves hello to Mya, Chele, Snork, Morgana, Ari, oh hell, all of the above>

P.S. Hhhmmmm.....I wonder is my little wave to my friends will be deleted because it doesn't pertain to the subject on hand?

 

[Sweetp4u]

Well, tell me if I am wrong here but that looks like an attack on me once again.

Obviously aren't listening very clearly. I have no agenda here other than writing and maintaining the rules. And for your viewing pleasure I will post the rules here given to us Mod's.

I dont consider the clubs as clutter, clutter was just a basic word used in general to threads outside of the SRP topic.

You want me to play God? Really?

Some keep low profiles, some like me like to 'social' just like those in the clubs. Now I have no agenda here, I just asked Laurel specific things that were listed in the rules..

Ok here are the rules given to us..


edited note: I wont play god ppl, never have never will..

AS for the warning in questions and answers about what would be deleted it was to keep the board clean of only the themed thread.

 

[mya]

*with a tear in my eye (for real Chanaud) and a wave back*

One last time, I miss you at Rick's buddy. Though to see you here is sweet poetry. Guess I just should PM ya huh!

 

[Sweetp4u]

Rules

You won't be deleting posts that disregard the rules. Instead, you will be moving them into one of two places: the ( ) or the forum that most fits them. In the case of spam, posts containing personal info, threats (by threats, we mean ones that can be taken seriously, not posters flaming each other), and underage pictures or stories, you will move the offending posts/threads here, to the ( )

If a thread is off the topic of the forum - i.e. a Personals ad in the How-To section etc. - you can move the thread to the proper forum. If it's an off-topic thread that doesn't fit in any of the other themed forums but doesn't belong in the one you're Mod-ing, simply move it into the General Forum.

If the whole thread is errant, you use the Move/Copy Thread option under Admin Options (bottom right of your screen) to move the thread to either the ( ) or a more suitable forum. If there are rule-breaking posts within an otherwise okay thread, use the Split Thread ....

If you find posts to which copyright images are attached, there's no need to remove the post unless it contains other rule-breaking content. Simply hit Edit Thread under Admin Options, scroll down to Attachment, and select the radial button marked Delete current attachment.

Occasionally, a person under the age of 18 will find their way onto the forum. If they post photos of themselves, REMOVE THOSE IMMEDIATELY! Then, PM me with their account name and a link to any posts in which they proclaim themselves to be under 18 (or a link to their profile, if that's where it shows their age), and I will remove their account asap.

 

[chanaud]

Awwww Mya. darlin'! I missed you too.

SweetP, you raised an issue and we are here to debate on it. I feel strongly against moving the OOC's even though I'm not involved in one. If you are going to think every opinion that difers from yours is an attack, I think you need to step away from the computer and take a breath a fresh air.

This isn't an attack. I raised an issue. You didn't respond to it. But, you did however, take time to defend yourself to everyone.

And you say you don't sound God like? What about the quote?

You want me to play God? Really?

 

[chanaud]

Thank you for posting the rules. I still don't see how the OOC's break any of the rules. Pleas explain.

 

[mya]

My last comment on this issue for a while (at least a couple of hours...LOL)...

SweetP...your rules listed:

If a thread is off the topic of the forum - i.e. a Personals ad in the How-To section etc. - you can move the thread to the proper forum.

I see it says "CAN" and not "MUST". So as such, I hope you do take into account all you've read, and leave the OOC's where they are. All in all, they harm no one. If anything they help. And as such are a bonus for Lit and for SRP. I hope they stay where they are. Count my vote for leaving them as they are.

 

[Sweetp4u]

ooc's were mentioned at another time, by another moderator who has been here much longer than I have.
Basic gist of it is chat clubs arent stories.

Anyways, Im not attacking for different views on things, I do how ever find the comment about being god like in my actions as a little rude.

as for the friend, I trust them completely since Ive known them for a long time here. Go look at the poll, it isnt too far in numbers between the options.

Now answer me this Chan.. If I went and moved the threads without asking anyone into another forum i felt they belonged in, wouldnt you think that was being god like?

 

[Snork Maiden]

Ok enough already, <gets her wave in early to EVERYONE>

I love a debate, absolutely I do, but not when it becomes personal or peoples feeling are getting hurt. Emotions can run high in any debate that is the skill of the debator not to rise to the temptation to bring the topic down to a personal level.

SweetP believe me when I say I respect you for the job you do, I think it was you that removed a particularly hurtful comment made against me earlier this month and I am so grateful for that.

We are having a problem here because of the talk of 'propose actions and possible measure that could be invoked' thats a little bit like negotiating a diplomatic solution with a gun against your head.

consider it a mark of great prudence in a man to abstain from threats or any contemptuous expressions, for neither of these weaken the enemy, but threats make him more cautious, and the other excites his hatred, and a desire to revenge himself."
-- Niccolo Machiavelli

Now really I know we are all friends, but this line that separates us is because of an idea. People don't like changes, always there is a resistance to them, sometimes for good reasons. I think in this case the reasons against them are pretty sound.

I know you have an obligation as a moderator to carry out the wishes of the site operators and that you have a set of guidelines to work to but the constitution of the United States has undergone a fair few changes also can't LIT bend a little here.

I think people are forgeting also that you are not just a moderator on this board but also and active participant in many threads. And you do drop by a few OOC's don't you come on admit it.

Are they really so odorous that they need to be moved. You are the frontline guardian of the forum, you see what goes on you get the PMs from people that want to pass their views to you. You are in such a strong position to say the OOC's are not a problem or they are.

Honestly what is your view on the OOC's ?

SweetP, believe me nothing I have posted was meant as a personal attack, although from experience I know people I do debate with seem to take my comments that way.

Debating in written words is such a dangerous meduim because you can't measure the tone or inflection of the phrase.

So please don't think this is a let's gang up on SweetP, it isn't really.

<Hugs> Snork