Porn and Social Demise

[M_K_Babalon]

This is a minefield so I will try not to get blown up.

I do not really know about the BNWO as Black Male / White Female (why isn't it the opposite?????) is not something that turn me so I do not watch at all.

What I notice as higher ed instructors is that over the last 10 years and especially since the pandemic, young male (18-22) treat women like shit and as a result have a trouble getting laid and of course blame the women.
I would like to ask them "How is it working for you being an asshole?" but they will get back to me saying I am a beta and they want to be alpha.

How about you treat other with respect and dignity?

Click ...... Fuck .... BOOM!

I can't recall if there's a direct opposite to bnwo, but there is an opposite to the typical black dude/black spade white woman thing. From what I've stumbled across, it's worse in my opinion, but that could be dependant on participants. The typical is black bull and the white women who wanna fuck them. The opposite comes off as self-loathing, Aunt Tom, self-depreciation type bullshit black women who fuck white dudes.

As far as the rest of that... yeah young dudes being assholes is a factor, but it was happening before covid. But it's not just them, it's the growth of the Redpill, the newest farce since mgtow and mra. When redpill came about, the women also picked it up, but not always in the way men hoped would happen. It's both genders fucking each other figuratively as they both play the same game that as far as redpill goes; men started that and created a new skrimish on loved battlefield, like there's not enough bullshit with dating, hookups, and general gender interactions.

 

[madelinemasoch]

It has been promised to cause demise ever since the "conservative" Victorian era.

Have a quick Google for Victorian porn...it was produced as soon as cameras were used.

Conservatives are scared of sex.

But I bet they are the biggest consumers!

I don’t think it’s the cause. I think it’s an indicator.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

It has been promised to cause demise ever since the "conservative" Victorian era.

Have a quick Google for Victorian porn...it was produced as soon as cameras were used.

Conservatives are scared of sex.

But I bet they are the biggest consumers!

The same victorian conservative man that said that, probably let their family doctor prescribe his wife a medicinal masturbator for hot flashes and back talk.

"...this will help expell all that boistorous energy she has, and as you can see; it operates similar to an egg-beater, so the familiarity won't confuse her simple female mind."

He won't question her "return to normal" but he might wonder how she can start the Model T on the first try, in the dead of winter.

 

[TheRedLantern]

probably let their family doctor prescribe his wife a medicinal masturbator

Guess who has two thumbs and a new excuse to call off work tomorrow

 

[TheLobster]

People repeat this trope constantly, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence to support it.

It’s mostly just availability heuristic. The few cases where conservative politicians have been “exposed” were highly publicized and thus linger in collective memory.

And on the flip side, how often do you specifically hear about a politician on the right who’s been an upstanding citizen with no family problems who’s never cheated or engaged in any fetishes? Never, because that’s not news.

…Okay, scratch that — you have recently heard about one such case, but it’s only because the guy in question got shot.

 

[LetsMisBehave]

I have learnt to be suspicious whenever anyone says this time it's different.
However, when I was growing up, the amount of porn that a teenage boy or girl could easily get their hands on was limited. As an instruction manual, you might have bought Alex Comfort's The Joy of Sex, but not many would be willing to try and buy, within a half-mile radius of their homes, a top-shelf magazine.
Everyone knew that knob A fitted into hole B, but the fact that holes C and D were available as well was not self-evident and would have puzzled me and most of my friends as to what a woman would get out of it. (The response of Reese Witherspoon's character, Vanessa Lutz, in Freeway, still seems apposite on fellatio)
Part of me wonders whether ignorance of anything beyond missionary and doggystyle was really worse for teenage boys and girls than the risk of taking porn as reality.
By the way, using woke as a word of insult seems to me to be the new Godwin's law equivalent about calling people Nazis. Having been a young professional at a time when even to get an interview, black friends had to hide the fact that they had an African name or that it was routinely assumed that the woman in the room was a secretary, means that while i am happy to debate the content of DEI policies, I regard anyone who says they are not needed with deep suspicion.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

an upstanding citizen

you have recently heard about one such case, but it’s only because the guy in question got shot

Let's agree that we won't get into a back and forth about this. But let's also acknowledge that there are quite different opinions available regarding this particular man's claim on being an upstanding citizen. I believe the full range of views may be found in the PB.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

I think this kind of extreme pornography only arises out of a society that is generally in decay, not to say the porn itself is a social ill, rather that it only makes sense and has sway in the context of a society that is riddled with social ills which may appear unrelated at first glance. Also, it seems the “western male archetype” in particular is essentially dead in the water. I’m open to anyone else’s thoughts and observation on the matter, but I’m not here for a political debate.

Sorry, but I think you missed a base there. I see no reason why that 'makes sense'. That's not to say that our society is not riddled with social ills. I would fully agree with you on that, but I'd need to have the logic explained to me. Short steps, please, 'cause I'm slow these days.

In any case, maybe I'm living a sheltered life, but I'm not aware of some recent tsunami of porn of the nature you discuss. That's not to say it's not out there, of course, but I suspect it lurks where the viewer dwells.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

The problem with using a porn niche as your baseline for the health of a society is that, by definition a niche is a niche, it's not representative. I'm not at all convinced you can extrapolate from the narrow to the broad the way you're suggesting here.

This. I actually wanted to say this because... well, I think you're exposing yourself too much to that niche that you're seeing it everywhere or something, or maybe I'm just too Latina for this thread.

Regardless, porn trends haven't changed in a while here in Latinamerica. It's still incest and pseudoincest RP, teen, mature, and young girls with old guys. Even in the Interracial category BNWO pretty much doesn't exist on the trends.

Now, does that reflect our society? Some people in Mexico blame incest RP porn to some sexual assault cases, but these are messages on Facebook that felt the same as blaming videogames for violence.

While some things do certainly feel global, the circumstances around those might be different across countries. Suicides rose here, but the reasons for that rise are more connected to politics than societal expectations, yet those two do share a correlation because the culture has shifted to survival inside a broken economy, effectively throwing education, development, and self-care out the window. Heck, even these last three can trigger people to attempt taking their lives...

We joke around here that one of the three groups of people that are keeping the economy from falling are the OnlyFans models, so there's that... Honestly, I remember some foreign journalists going to the capital to talk to sex workers there and they were completely shocked to learn that these girls were highly educated women: teachers, doctors, nurses, engineers, you name it. It might be shocking outside, but that's just Tuesday here.

So, what does porn do here? I never thought about it, but if it has an influence, I can tell you right now it has nothing to do with BNWO.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

It’s mostly just availability heuristic. The few cases where conservative politicians have been “exposed” were highly publicized and thus linger in collective memory.

And on the flip side, how often do you specifically hear about a politician on the right who’s been an upstanding citizen with no family problems who’s never cheated or engaged in any fetishes? Never, because that’s not news.

…Okay, scratch that — you have recently heard about one such case, but it’s only because the guy in question got shot.

And of course we never want to talk about the reverse, all the liberal Male Feminists who were marching in protest for Me Too and shitting on women behind the scenes.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Let's agree that we won't get into a back and forth about this. But let's also acknowledge that there are quite different opinions available regarding this particular man's claim on being an upstanding citizen. I believe the full range of views may be found in the PB.

The range of "views" or the actual facts?

 

[DEFCOM5]

I have observed the noticeable changes in porn over the years.

- Brutal gang bangs started by the kink.com website and all everything that followed. It felt like consensus sex was out of the windows
- The number of men screwing a woman in a scene increased exponentially (like the number of blades on a disposable razor)
- The flooding of step-sex i.e. fake incest/taboo as the young man screw the step mom or the young woman screws her step dad.
- The arrival of free use sex where female porn start can show their boredom and indifference while being fucked

Again, these are not categories I am looking for but sampling of videos of the day in a site like xnxx.com

I am not sure what it says, if anything about our society.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I have observed the noticeable changes in porn over the years.

- Brutal gang bangs started by the kink.com website and all everything that followed. It felt like consensus sex was out of the windows
- The number of men screwing a woman in a scene increased exponentially (like the number of blades on a disposable razor)
- The flooding of step-sex i.e. fake incest/taboo as the young man screw the step mom or the young woman screws her step dad.
- The arrival of free use sex where female porn start can show their boredom and indifference while being fucked

Again, these are not categories I am looking for but sampling of videos of the day in a site like xnxx.com

I am not sure what it says, if anything about our society.

I can't speak for XNXX, but I saw an interview with one of the corporate guys at PornHub and he said, in a nutshell that what someone sees when they log in is what they (corporate) wants you to see. Much like Netflix pushes certain programs, PornHub has their finger on the scale as well and it isn't just an algorithm showing you what's popular.

What their motivation is I have no idea.

 

[alohadave]

it isn't just an algorithm showing you what's popular.

But they also all use algorithms to show you more of what you've already watched or clicked on. I see it on porn streaming all the time. Search for something, watch a couple of the results and that's what shows up in your feed for at least several days until you retrain the algorithm to feed you something else.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

But they also all use algorithms to show you more of what you've already watched or clicked on. I see it on porn streaming all the time. Search for something, watch a couple of the results and that's what shows up in your feed for at least several days until you retrain the algorithm to feed you something else.

I understand that, my point is when you log in "fresh" you are seeing what THEY want you to see. It isn't necessarily what's popular at the moment, and in fact very likely isn't. So you can't really draw any conclusions from that about what other people are watching.

 

[SimonDoom]

I have observed the noticeable changes in porn over the years.

- Brutal gang bangs started by the kink.com website and all everything that followed. It felt like consensus sex was out of the windows


I am not sure what it says, if anything about our society.

Kink.com, as far as I can tell, is rather scrupulous about following consent protocols. There's a lot of BDSM and fetish, some of it rather extreme, but it's not nonconsensual, nor is it presented as nonconsensual. I've seen some of their work and they feature interviews with participants before and after to make it clear that despite the extreme appearance of the encounters they consented to it. It's not a celebration of nonconsent.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Kink.com, as far as I can tell, is rather scrupulous about following consent protocols. There's a lot of BDSM and fetish, some of it rather extreme, but it's not nonconsensual, nor is it presented as nonconsensual. I've seen some of their work and they feature interviews with participants before and after to make it clear that despite the extreme appearance of the encounters they consented to it. It's not a celebration of nonconsent.

I think those interviews are fascinating. More interesting than the porn, on most of the ones I've seen.

 

[DEFCOM5]

Kink.com, as far as I can tell, is rather scrupulous about following consent protocols. There's a lot of BDSM and fetish, some of it rather extreme, but it's not nonconsensual, nor is it presented as nonconsensual. I've seen some of their work and they feature interviews with participants before and after to make it clear that despite the extreme appearance of the encounters they consented to it. It's not a celebration of nonconsent.

I am not saying that kink.com did non consensual things. The actresses were paid and knew that it would be brutal and violent and they always had the post scene interviews to ensure that it was an act.
However, during the video, it seldom looked like to me that the actress was not particularly enjoying herself nor have a good time, even if she said so after. In front of my boss, I always LOVE my job.
Was it consensual? Yes. Did it pretend to be non consensual? Yes. Did the actress enjoyed it? I have my doubt for the majority of them.

 

[DEFCOM5]

But they also all use algorithms to show you more of what you've already watched or clicked on. I see it on porn streaming all the time. Search for something, watch a couple of the results and that's what shows up in your feed for at least several days until you retrain the algorithm to feed you something else.

I use duck duck go so I am always fresh so I see what the site is pushing and I think the site is pushing what is likely to get them the max amount of views.

I have never seen them push written stories.

 

[DeMont]

Perhaps these ideas would serve better in an essay format, but I feel compelled to share them here.

A lot of the porn I’ve consumed is BNWO themed—“Black New World Order” for the uninitiated—and some of it is actually rather dark. I can’t help but notice it as a reflection of social ills. There’s been a lot of hay made about “male loneliness epidemic” and there are facts to back it up. Male suicide rates and drug overdose rates are higher than they were 20 years ago. A google search will tell you that much. These are often called “deaths of despair” in social sciences.

The BNWO porn can often veer into the territory of sexualized defeat and degeneration. To be more precise, people are getting off on the idea of being replaced, left behind, and unwanted by society as a whole, not just being unwanted by women. It’s like if you twist the ‘incel’ crowd’s feelings of abandonment or the white nationalist crowd’s neurosis about ‘replacement’ into a “fetish.” A lot of it openly praises things that the far-right fears, like feminism and anti-racist politics, for leading to the proliferation of black male-white female interracial relationships leading to the projected extinction of the white race.

I think this kind of extreme pornography only arises out of a society that is generally in decay, not to say the porn itself is a social ill, rather that it only makes sense and has sway in the context of a society that is riddled with social ills which may appear unrelated at first glance. Also, it seems the “western male archetype” in particular is essentially dead in the water. I’m open to anyone else’s thoughts and observation on the matter, but I’m not here for a political debate.

Also, these are waters I’m happy to swim in when it comes to my own writing, because (1) it’s timely, (2) it’s theoretically interesting to me, and (3) there’s an aesthetic appeal. So, please don’t twist what I’m saying into an anti-pornography argument. I happily produce what may be considered “pornography” that is generally akin to what I’m referring to.

@madelinemasoch,
Good evening my dear colleague. I see you have thrown the proverbial cat among the pidgeons! Wow!

You know, I never associated the anagram BNWO with colour, I always defined it as being the Bleak New World Order and took it on board, as somebody mentioned Orwell's "1984" in another thread, or Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451".

I'm going to go wayyyyy out on my limb here and suggest that pornography, per se, does not, in fact, play any major role in society's "demise" nor yet its deterioration. What are some of the things that feed social demise? Inequality of racial, social, educational, financial and sexual nature. Political infighting when governments are supposed to be elected "for the people, by the people" (Which in a 'flawed democracy' is a fallacy)

Pornography is entertainment, pure and simple and is enjoyed as such by the vast majority of its consumerist market. Sure, it may fuel a certain 'dissatisfaction' with ones own life position but that can't be held as stereotypical in the incidence of sexual aggression that occurs. It may be a factor but not a majority factor so to hold it up as being an "all encompassing reason" for the perceived 'demise' of society s an exceedingly difficult, if not impossible premise to prove.

Of course, one persons beliefs are not ever to be discounted in such a debate as you propose. Your personal beliefs are yours, they do not mirror mine and there is no chance that I, as a rational thinking person, respectfully, would ever subscribe to your beliefs.

In as much as I have mentioned, that is the "short version" and in no way is it meant to infer insult or disrespect.
Respectfully,
D.