Pornography or Erotica?

[AG31]

Erotica does not need to be about sex. It needs to inspire thoughts, feelings, and emotions about sex.

For me this is a distinction without a difference. I include your second description in my description of "sex." The word needs to be redeemed.

And to answer your question about my familiarity with mainstream fiction, I always have a pile of library books at home, and a backup book on my Kindle in case I run out before the library responds to my requests.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

If we're inventing our own distinctions - an exercise I think is great! - then here's one:

1) Erotica is very specifically about exploring sexuality, trying to understand its variety and mystery. Anais Nin writes erotica.

2) Pornography is concerned above all with showing sex for the purposes of titillation. It's not so interested in getting at the heart of sexuality. It can include plot and character, which can be very well-drawn, but they're in the service of the showing of sex, and so secondary to it.

3) Romances and dramas are primarily interested in their characters and their plots and the emotion they create - these stories can include sex, extremely explicit or otherwise, but they are neither porn nor erotica unless they fit into the categories above.

 

[MK_Whimsy]

I imagine erotica as stimulating some kind of intellectual or emotional response, involving things like character development and plots. My stories are in no way sophisticated like that.

On the other hand, my stories are more about exploring different fetishes and fantasies. The sexual content is secondary to that and is often relatively muted. Also, I have not been paid to write any of it.

Given that they have more of an intent to arouse and are not otherwise thought-provoking in any way, I'd wager they are probably closer to pornography.

 

[LargoKitt]

Why do we allow, even encourage young people to spend hours and hours pretending to kill people, fighting imaginary but very realistic wars, becoming skillful at being a 'first person shooter' but make them ashamed of seeing people make love?

 

[Jonnymc]

Erotica in my opinion is the best way for fantasy to play, sure porn and or nudity is great but it does not build the imagination of anything other than busting a nut, we all have go to fantasy in our minds when we masterbate, you know the one that really works for you, erotica takes a glimpse in the world of fantasy and sex in writing something that is deep inside your mind and yet to say the words to a lover in the moment, nope , erotica takes a real connection to sex and gives everyone a chance to live it in the moment lol idk they are both good

 

[DeMont]

Do you consider what you write “pornography” or not? How about what you read? Is some erotica “pornography” while other erotica is not? Is there a meaningful distinction in your mind between erotica and porn? I’d be fascinated to read some genuine thoughts on the matter.

@madelinemasoch et al,
Also, my dear colleagues, consider if you will, what if you were to ask this question of a God fearing, middle American, church going Christian middle class soul?
What response might you get as to whether there is actually a distinction or not?

You say "toe-may-toe" I say "toe-mah-toe"...
Vive la difference.
Deepest respects, always,
D.

 

[MelanieShaman]

I think I consider what I write as erotica because I'm a much concerned with characters and story as I am with the sexy stuff, maybe more. I like my characters too be likable and maybe a little relatable. This is mainly for me, it keeps me interested.

 

[nice90sguy]

I think focusing on the visual quality of pornography is correct

That reminded me of my childhood holiday with my parents in Italy. My father, a working-class Cockney, took us to Pompeii. My mother could speak Italian, but was too embarrased to ask, so my father went up to one of the guards, and in his best "Alf Garnet" accent, asked him "Dovay Pornographia?" After a small bribe, the guard quickly opened and closed the cover of a picture of a cunnilingus scene.

That was my first exposure to porn (and Ive never looked back).

 

[TheLobster]

Why do we allow, even encourage young people to spend hours and hours pretending to kill people, fighting imaginary but very realistic wars, becoming skillful at being a 'first person shooter' but make them ashamed of seeing people make love?

Did you really just handwave away all the recurring moral panics about violent video games and all the woes they cause, from mass shootings to outbreaks of teenage acne?

No one is encouraging it, and there are countries like Germany and Australia where some gory games where either banned or released in heavily censored versions. There is no widespread “violence good but sex bad” attitude, and I’m actually curious why so many people think there is.

 

[DEFCOM5]

I’m actually curious why so many people think there is.

It is a US thing. Coming from Europe, I do not understand it.
The culture is: Violence is accepted and revered. Sex is bad.
The damn pilgrim mentality.
Again not everyone in the US but the dominant culture is like that.

 

[iwatchus]

Why do we allow, even encourage young people to spend hours and hours pretending to kill people, fighting imaginary but very realistic wars, becoming skillful at being a 'first person shooter' but make them ashamed of seeing people make love?

A line from my WIP when the FMC and MMC are first meeting each other.

I suppose you love to prove how big your dick is by shooting lots of pretend things on a computer screen, huh.

 

[LargoKitt]

Did you really just handwave away all the recurring moral panics about violent video games and all the woes they cause, from mass shootings to outbreaks of teenage acne?

No one is encouraging it, and there are countries like Germany and Australia where some gory games where either banned or released in heavily censored versions. There is no widespread “violence good but sex bad” attitude, and I’m actually curious why so many people think there is.

Let's start by the fact that we routinely censor sexual content but glamorize violent content. A ridiculous parallel: James Bond movies start with a man shooting a gun and sometimes a splatter. James is a sex machine. But you can have hime loosing a load in the opening credits. Eew! Right? But you can have 17 baddies die gruesomely in the opening credits. BTW, do video games have a rating system like movies? Probably for sexual content. My 11 year old grandson can spend hours blasting baddies. Guess what I'm not even supposed to suggest on this site?

 

[ElectricBlue]

BTW, do video games have a rating system like movies? Probably for sexual content.

They do here in Oz - same criteria as for movies, with G, PG, M, MA and R. And X if you're in Canberra or the Northern Territory.

The ratings cover both violence and sex.

 

[EmilyMiller]

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’

 

[KittyOfSteele]

do video games have a rating system like movies? Probably for sexual content.

Europe has the PEGI board. USA has the ESRB. Both do clarify if the game has depictions of sex, violence, profanity, drug use...

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

There is no widespread “violence good but sex bad” attitude

All I’d say on that point is that millions of people wear a symbol of execution around their necks; and those same people are also adamant that the victim’s mum didn’t have sex when she conceived him.

 

[DEFCOM5]

Did you really just handwave away all the recurring moral panics about violent video games and all the woes they cause, from mass shootings to outbreaks of teenage acne?

Video games do not lead to mass shooting. The proliferation of guns do. Teenage boys play violent video games all over the world. Yet, mass shooting is a US phenomenon.
My boys, their friend and I have played violent video games at time. None of us is a mass shooter.

There is no widespread “violence good but sex bad” attitude, and I’m actually curious why so many people think there is.

Look at your TV. You can have guys beat the shit out of each other (MMA, UFC, Boxing) and no one think it is an issue. However, if a woman shows a nipple, it is a federal investigation affair. Remember Janet Jackson at the superbowl?

 

[DEFCOM5]

All I’d say on that point is that millions of people wear a symbol of execution around their necks; and those same people are also adamant that the victim’s mum didn’t have sex when she conceived him.

I love that quote. I will use it and quote you as "Someone smarter than me once said ...."

 

[Statius]

All I’d say on that point is that millions of people wear a symbol of execution around their necks; and those same people are also adamant that the victim’s mum didn’t have sex when she conceived him.

I'll say it. Nonconsensual sex at that.

 

[APilgrimSquare]

If it's high-falutin' or makes the reader wait, it's erotica.

If we get right to it and/or it involves bodily fluids, it's porn.

Sometimes we do a little of both in the same story.

 

[Statius]

‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’

That, by the way, is probably the best definition of this yet. Kudos on that one.

 

[DeMont]

Video games do not lead to mass shooting. The proliferation of guns do. Teenage boys play violent video games all over the world. Yet, mass shooting is a US phenomenon.
My boys, their friend and I have played violent video games at time. None of us is a mass shooter.

Look at your TV. You can have guys beat the shit out of each other (MMA, UFC, Boxing) and no one think it is an issue. However, if a woman shows a nipple, it is a federal investigation affair. Remember Janet Jackson at the superbowl?

@DEFCOM5, et al,
Surely, my most respected colleagues, we're not going to allow ourselves to get roped into that, "video games create mass killers and porn movies create rapists" argument. The fact of the matter is that there is no rhyme nor reason, save for aberrant social thinking on the part of an individual, that is responsible for these things? They are occurrences that exist the world over for many different reasons. To attribute either to a single cause or influence is not a rational conclusion.

I play violent video games but for me they are simply that - games. I write erotic literature with no more thought of going out and attacking a young lady than I would entertain chopping my own right hand off! Does that make me aberrant? An exception to the norm in some way? I don't believe so.
Deepest respects,
D.

 

[TheLobster]

BTW, do video games have a rating system like movies? Probably for sexual content.

Like others have already mentioned, video games are rated based on all kinds of potentially inappropriate content, including both erotic themes and violence:



The purpose of it is to enable parents and guardians make informed decisions as to what games may be appropriate for their children. And because such ratings exist and are widely applied, the fact that your 11-year-old grandson is playing gory shooters isn't a gotcha that you think it is. Rather, it's a sign that someone is neglecting their parental duties.

You may want to look into that.

All I’d say on that point is that millions of people wear a symbol of execution around their necks; and those same people are also adamant that the victim’s mum didn’t have sex when she conceived him.

That's one the dumbest quips posing as witticisms that I've seen in a while.

Look at your TV. You can have guys beat the shit out of each other (MMA, UFC, Boxing) and no one think it is an issue. However, if a woman shows a nipple, (...)

I can turn to channels with general programming and find both boxing/wresting/etc., as well as movies where female breasts can be seen. I just need to wait until later in the evening, when younger kids are presumably already sleeping, and I find nothing wrong in that.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

dumbest

Cool reaction.

//

I’ll take the witticism out of it: the reason there’s a widespread ‘violence good sex bad’ attitude is because of religion - and specifically because of religion’s pernicious control of art and entertainment.

Film, the most popular art form of the 20th century, was notoriously controlled by the National League of Decency, a Catholic organization obsessed with controlling what the American audience could see (and, given Hollywood’s global dominance, what international audiences could see too). They enforced the Hays code, which prohibited:

• Nudity
• Suggestive dances
• Discussions of sexual perversity [homosexuality was de facto a ‘perversion’]
• Superfluous use of liquor
• Ridicule of religion
• Miscegenation
• Lustful kissing
• Scenes of passion

Violence was a concern for the League of Decency only insofar as it might glorify criminality. In other words, when it came to violence, they were worried about law and order, not the violence itself. They reserved their real worries for lustful kissing.

In the UK, there was Mary Whitehouse, a Christian evangelical who raged against the ‘permissive’ society that Britain was becoming.

She complained that TV, and especially the BBC, was an ‘ally of pacifism’ - because when it did show violence or war, it showed them in a negative light, depressing young people’s desire to fight.

If you’re as curious as you said you were, I’ll let you look up the films and TV shows both the League of Decency and Mary Whitehouse’s National Viewer’s and Listener’s Association attempted to censor.

Even someone as dumb as me couldn’t miss their obsessive censoring of sex in film and TV - and their mere shrugging at violence, if not active glorification.

I’ll also suggest you look up the books that are being banned in various states in the American south even today. You’ll see the same preoccupation with sex and the lack of concern for violence.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I play violent video games but for me they are simply that - games. I write erotic literature with no more thought of going out and attacking a young lady than I would entertain chopping my own right hand off! Does that make me aberrant? An exception to the norm in some way? I don't believe so.

I’m not going to bang my head against this particular brick wall yet again, but - purely from a statistical inference point of view - any argument with the basis, ‘I don’t do X based on Y, so therefore no one does X based on Y,’ is not a very robust one. I see it made often here in multiple contexts.

It’s effectively analogous to saying, ‘My grandpa smoked forty a day and lived to be ninety eight, so smoking is totally safe.’