Racial Fatigue?

[1sickbastard]

I've been to a lot of colleges/grad schools, public and private, and while I've met plenty of liberals, I've never encountered a single Marxist or Communist on the faculty. In any case, it doesn't matter, that is, it does not appear to be indoctrinating the students. See Political beliefs of academics.

According to the single study vetteman provided a link for (but apparently didn't read), one's peers play the largest role in determining one's worldview, not one's college professors.
From section 5.2, the third & fourth sentences, "There is little evidence that education causes students to become more liberal. Instead, several longitudinal studies following tens of thousands of college students for many years have concluded that political socialization in college occurs primarily as a function of one’s peers, not education per se (Astin, 1993; Dey, 1997)."

 

[1sickbastard]

As for the Bell Curve it wasn't even peer reviewed you don't need to prove it wrong or debunk it. They need to return to square one and prove their shit in the first place.

^^^^this

Researchers who publish their work without first submitting it to peer review generally have some motivation other than producing good science, such as advancing a political/social agenda.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I've been to a lot of colleges/grad schools, public and private, and while I've met plenty of liberals, I've never encountered a single Marxist or Communist on the faculty. In any case, it doesn't matter, that is, it does not appear to be indoctrinating the students. See Political beliefs of academics.

Even if they were what precisely would be wrong with that? Are we not a democracy?

I assume all places of education indoctrinate to some degree or another, my experience (albeit limited) was they don't do much in the way of indoctrination. Certainly not in comparison to K-12 and the modern media as a whole.

 

[The_Trouvere]

As for the Bell Curve it wasn't even peer reviewed you don't need to prove it
wrong or debunk it. They need to return to square one and prove their shit in
the first place.

As long as the discussion on innate individual and racial differences in
intelligence is coerced, peer reviews cannot be trusted. The sale of The Bell
Curve, and other books has made Charles Murray independently wealthy.
Consequently, he can say anything he wants to say. The sale of his books
demonstrates that many people want to read what he has to say.
Unfortunately, those who are dependent on pay checks can jeopardize their
jobs, and even their careers by agreeing with The Bell Curve.

The basic assertions of The Bell Curve are almost self evident:
intelligence is extremely important in economic success and other desirable
outcomes in life; intelligence is primarily determined by genes; average
intelligence varies between the races.

The burden of proof should should be on those who argue that The Bell
Curve is mistaken. They should be required to explain why there is so much
evidence in favor of the central argument of The Bell Curve.

As more is learned about the human genome it will become increasingly
obvious that what Charles Murray has devoted his career to saying is true.
I hope that great man lives long enough to be completely vindicated.

 

[The_Trouvere]

How hasn't the Bell Curve been debunked?
Here are just a few:

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/debunk/dBell.htm
And here:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2967209?uid=3739832&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21105875577823

There are obvious fallacies here, such as ad hominem,

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

appeal to emotion,

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-emotion.html

and guilt by association.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html

The fact that those who pretend to disagree with Charles Murray cannot avoid
becoming angry demonstrates that they know that what he says is true.
People do not become angry expressing assertions they are confident in.

 

[Sean Renaud]

As long as the discussion on innate individual and racial differences in
intelligence is coerced, peer reviews cannot be trusted. The sale of The Bell
Curve, and other books has made Charles Murray independently wealthy.
Consequently, he can say anything he wants to say. The sale of his books
demonstrates that many people want to read what he has to say.
Unfortunately, those who are dependent on pay checks can jeopardize their
jobs, and even their careers by agreeing with The Bell Curve.

The basic assertions of The Bell Curve are almost self evident:
intelligence is extremely important in economic success and other desirable
outcomes in life; intelligence is primarily determined by genes; average
intelligence varies between the races.

The burden of proof should should be on those who argue that The Bell
Curve is mistaken. They should be required to explain why there is so much
evidence in favor of the central argument of The Bell Curve.

As more is learned about the human genome it will become increasingly
obvious that what Charles Murray has devoted his career to saying is true.
I hope that great man lives long enough to be completely vindicated.

That's not how it works. For starters people want to read what Ayn Rand has to day, that doesn't make her economic or philosophical ideals any less retarded.

The basic assertions of the Bell Curve aren't self evident, in many cases they clearly run contrary but no, the burden of proof remains on those claim a theory and that's how it has to be.

I promise you he won't be vindicated, he'll die ridiculed or if he's lucky forgotten.

Economic success has so many factors that ultimately break down into how lucky you are that the rest is almost silly to discuss.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Scientists Measure the Accuracy of a Racism Claim

The Bell Curve has served as a platform for many modern-day racists like
yourself, giving them an "intellectual" basis and source of data to support many
of their beliefs. When one looks at the sources cited by the book it's premise
falls apart.

The majority of those sources were thoroughly debunked for over a decade
before The Bell Curve was printed (without being peer reviewed) by Stephen
Jay Gould's classic work on the pseudoscience behind eugenics, The
Mismeasure of Man.

Stephen Jay Gold made such egregious mistakes that one is justified in
suspecting him of being a deliberate academic charlatan.

----------

The New York Times By NICHOLAS WADE Published: June 13, 2011

Scientists have often been accused of letting their ideology influence their
results, and one of the most famous cases is that of Morton’s skulls — the
global collection amassed by the 19th-century physical anthropologist Samuel
George Morton...

In a 1981 book, “The Mismeasure of Man,” the paleontologist Stephen Jay
Gould asserted that Morton, believing that brain size was a measure of
intelligence, had subconsciously manipulated the brain volumes of European,
Asian and African skulls to favor his bias that Europeans had larger brains and
Africans smaller ones.

But now physical anthropologists at the University of Pennsylvania, which owns
Morton’s collection, have remeasured the skulls, and in an article that does
little to burnish Dr. Gould’s reputation as a scholar, they conclude that almost
every detail of his analysis is wrong.

“Our results resolve this historical controversy, demonstrating that Morton did
not manipulate his data to support his preconceptions, contra Gould,” they
write in the current PLoS Biology.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/14/science/14skull.html?_r=0

----------

In addition, The Mismeasure of Man deals with early efforts to
demonstrate the importance of hereditary in influencing individual and racial
differences, while ignoring more recent, and consequently more accurate
efforts.

 

[The_Trouvere]

That's not how it works. For starters people
want to read what Ayn Rand has to day, that doesn't make her economic or
philosophical ideals any less retarded.

The basic assertions of the Bell Curve aren't self evident, in many cases they
clearly run contrary but no, the burden of proof remains on those claim a theory
and that's how it has to be.

I promise you he won't be vindicated, he'll die ridiculed or if he's lucky
forgotten.

Economic success has so many factors that ultimately break down into how
lucky you are that the rest is almost silly to discuss.

The failure of No Child Left Behind and Head Start provide public evidence in
support of The Bell Curve.

Where is there any evidence that the Negro race is intrinsically equal to
the white race?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

The failure of No Child Left Behind and Head Start provide public evidence in
support of The Bell Curve.

Where is there any evidence that the Negro race is intrinsically equal to
the white race?

Wrong once again, this is becoming a habit.

The failure of NCLB is one of imposing goals on schools without providing funding to make those goals achievable. The worst part of it was tying funding to standardized test scores, it ensured that the schools who needed the funds most were shortchanged.

The "failure" of Head Start only shows that starting education earlier provided only marginally better scores that evaporated by the end of 1st grade and wasn't worth the expense.

You know what, you're just going on perma-ignore along with the rest of the overt racist idiots here. I have better things to do with my time than argue with someone so willfully misinformed and bigoted.

Say hello to JamesB and Dizzybooby.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

good thing you butt munchers don't have a real job

Wrong once again, this is becoming a habit.

The failure of NCLB is one of imposing goals on schools without providing funding to make those goals achievable. The worst part of it was tying funding to standardized test scores, it ensured that the schools who needed the funds most were shortchanged.

The "failure" of Head Start only shows that starting education earlier provided only marginally better scores that evaporated by the end of 1st grade and wasn't worth the expense.

You know what, you're just going on perma-ignore along with the rest of the overt racist idiots here. I have better things to do with my time than argue with someone so willfully misinformed and bigoted.

Say hello to JamesB and Dizzybooby.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

What do you do for work NeverEndingMoron? You've never answered that question. You certainly can't make a living at your "erotic literature".

I'm betting Walmart cashier.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

You know what, you're just going on perma-ignore along with the rest of the overt racist idiots here. I have better things to do with my time than argue with someone so willfully misinformed and bigoted.

Say hello to JamesB and Dizzybooby.

Think I'll join suit. It's never going to end and this thread is only giving him life. That's what racism wants, to keep on being seen and ubiquitous.

Once again, milady Morrison has his bullshit dead to rights. Like all racists, Troovy's purpose exists for distraction. There will always be one more thing.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/7b0b5c52361a885283e056acd230f698/tumblr_n8cshb6Pmc1slblyeo1_1280.jpg

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Why you be a racist?

Think I'll join suit. It's never going to end and this thread is only giving him life. That's what racism wants, to keep on being seen and ubiquitous.

Once again, milady Morrison has his bullshit dead to rights. Like all racists, Troovy's purpose exists for distraction. There will always be one more thing.

http://36.media.tumblr.com/7b0b5c52361a885283e056acd230f698/tumblr_n8cshb6Pmc1slblyeo1_1280.jpg

 

[Sean Renaud]

The failure of No Child Left Behind and Head Start provide public evidence in
support of The Bell Curve.

Where is there any evidence that the Negro race is intrinsically equal to
the white race?

How would a bad program show anything of the sort?

Where is the proof that the negro race isn't equal to the white race is a better question and that the whites didn't kind of luck into better circumstances?

 

[The_Trouvere]

Wrong once again, this is becoming a habit.

The failure of NCLB is one of imposing goals on schools without providing funding to make those goals achievable. The worst part of it was tying funding to standardized test scores, it ensured that the schools who needed the funds most were shortchanged.

The "failure" of Head Start only shows that starting education earlier provided only marginally better scores that evaporated by the end of 1st grade and wasn't worth the expense.

You know what, you're just going on perma-ignore along with the rest of the overt racist idiots here. I have better things to do with my time than argue with someone so willfully misinformed and bigoted.

Say hello to JamesB and Dizzybooby.

No Child Left Behind Funding

In fiscal year 2014, over $14 billion was dedicated to Title I Grants to Local Educational Agencies, the largest NCLB program. Funding levels for selected NCLB programs from 2005 to present are shown below.

No Child Left Behind Major Programs
($ millions)
Program FY 2007 FY 2008 FY 2009* FY 2010 FY 2011 FY 2012 FY 2013 FY 2014
Title I Grants to Local Educational Agencies 12,838 13,899 14,492 14,492 14,442 14,516 13,760 14,38
http://febp.newamerica.net/background-analysis/no-child-left-behind-funding

--------

My hope is that no more tax money is wasted on programs like No Child Left Behind.

Instead of more doomed efforts to bring Negroes up to white standards we need to subdue Negroes with a sufficiently harsh criminal justice system.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The amount of money poured in to NCLB is immaterial.

A sufficiently harsh penal system? That'll never work, you may as well just go with genocide, it's a smarter plan.

 

[CandiCame]

That's not how it works. For starters people want to read what Ayn Rand has to day, that doesn't make her economic or philosophical ideals any less retarded.

The basic assertions of the Bell Curve aren't self evident, in many cases they clearly run contrary but no, the burden of proof remains on those claim a theory and that's how it has to be.

I promise you he won't be vindicated, he'll die ridiculed or if he's lucky forgotten.

Economic success has so many factors that ultimately break down into how lucky you are that the rest is almost silly to discuss.

He's already been forgotten. I never heard of that thing outside this board and nothing I've seen here makes me want to go read it.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

He's already been forgotten. I never heard of that thing outside this board and nothing I've seen here makes me want to go read it.

For good reason, the ideas asserted in the book are debunked pseudoscience used by racists to try to give their bigotry some "legitimacy". The authors knew that it wouldn't get past the peer review process without being shredded so they published a book instead of a scientific paper.

It's no different than calling conversion therapy a cure for homosexuality or Phrenology used to determine personality traits "science".

 

[1sickbastard]

The failure of No Child Left Behind and Head Start provide public evidence in
support of The Bell Curve.

Where is there any evidence that the Negro race is intrinsically equal to
the white race?

The term "race" has zero meaning in science, not even taxonomy. It is, in fact, a hold-over from now-debunked theories which sought to justify racism using science. See the term, "scientific racism".

Look, if you're a racist, go ahead and admit it.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

The term "race" has zero meaning in science, not even taxonomy. It is, in fact, a hold-over from now-debunked theories which sought to justify racism using science. See the term, "scientific racism".

Look, if you're a racist, go ahead and admit it.

He's never going to, because it doesn't fit his veneer.

What he doesn't want to admit is that he's the same thing as BusyShit and JBJ, just with a different diet and cleaner underwear.

 

[CandiCame]

For good reason, the ideas asserted in the book are debunked pseudoscience used by racists to try to give their bigotry some "legitimacy". The authors knew that it wouldn't get past the peer review process without being shredded so they published a book instead of a scientific paper.

It's no different than calling conversion therapy a cure for homosexuality or Phrenology used to determine personality traits "science".

Yeah but I mean even as a "Isn't it weird that people used to believe this" it isn't mentioned. Pliny the Elder was wrong but I know who he is. Erik VanAlienGuy is wrong but I know who he is. This guy is just... nobody. There's being wrong and there's being nothing.

 

[The_Trouvere]

The term "race" has zero meaning in science, not even taxonomy. It is, in fact, a hold-over from now-debunked theories which sought to justify racism using science. See the term, "scientific racism".

Look, if you're a racist, go ahead and admit it.

The claim that "race is only a social construct" is known in logic as a circular argument fallacy. In a circular argument one assumes what one needs to prove.

In this case "race" is defined as "a social construct." Definitions are not facts. They themselves are social constructs.

The claim that race is only a social construct is not presented as a topic for debate. It is presented as a theological dogma. Those who present it are not interested in debating it. They want to punish non believers.

The different races differ in the same way as sub species of animal species. They retain the ability to have fertile offspring. Nevertheless, they differ in appearance, and average behavior and ability. These differences have evolved for thousands of years in response to different population pressures.

For decades forensic scientists have been able to determine a person's race by the person's skeleton. Now DNA evidence makes it possible to trace a person's ancestors back to specific countries.

----------

Actress Vanessa Williams Explains How DNA Powers Her Family Tree

The following appeared in the Los Angeles Times, April 27, 2013. Written by Jessica P. Ogilvie.

How did you become interested in finding out about your lineage?

I’ve always been interested, but I was introduced to Ancestry [one of the websites that help people research their family backgrounds] before I even did a show called “Who Do You Think You Are,” so I signed up as a member to document my own family tree, and my DNA analysis was done as a part of doing the show.

We ended up doing two stories on my father’s side. One of my great-great-grandfathers was a soldier in the Civil War, and the other was born a slave but ended up being an educator and principal, and one of the first black legislators in Tennessee back in 1885. The stories are rich and informative and intriguing, but also as an African American, you don’t always have the luxury to know exactly where your ancestors are from.

What did you find out about your DNA?

My DNA breaks down as follows: I’m 23% from Ghana, 17% from the British Isles, 15% from Cameroon, 12% Finnish, 11% Southern European, 7% Togo, 6% Benin, 5% Senegal and 4% Portuguese.
http://blogs.ancestry.com/cm/2013/0...iams-explains-how-dna-powers-her-family-tree/

----------

I do not care if anyone calls me a racist. For too long the fear of being called a racist has interfered with the conversation on race liberals call for while hypocritically suppressing.

I want a real conversation, one with Charles Murray occupying the seat of honor.

Liberals have been terribly hypocritical about race. They complain about the persistence of de facto segregated schools, but they avoid sending their children to public schools with large black populations. This avoidance is motivated by a clandestine agreement with what I have been posting in this thread.

 

[The_Trouvere]

He's already been forgotten. I never heard of that thing outside this board and nothing I've seen here makes me want to go read it.

That goes to show how limited you are. The Bell Curve was on The New York Times Best Seller List for 15 weeks. It sold over a half million copies in hardback.

Charles Murray has gone on to write other books that have sold well. He has written essays for prestigious newspapers and opinion journals, like Commentary, and The Wall Street Journal.

 

[The_Trouvere]

He's never going to, because it doesn't fit his veneer.

What he doesn't want to admit is that he's the same thing as BusyShit and JBJ, just with a different diet and cleaner underwear.

I can write better than they can, and better than you can. I am articulate, and well informed. That is what disturbs you. I cannot be easily dismissed.

Also, I am a Democrat. I am someone who would like to disagree with books like The Bell Curve. I agree with them because they are obviously true, and because I believe that the truth matters.

 

[unregistered]