Reconciliation - Want to see the ultimate in Democrat HYPOCRISY?

[Ulaven_Demorte]

But not to the voters who already have said they do not want this health care bill.

When exactly did the voters voice that opinion? I don't recall seeing it on any ballot. Wait, you're talking about one of those polls that "Conservatives" never put any faith in, unless they agree with the results..

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sonny Limatina]

When exactly did the voters voice that opinion? I don't recall seeing it on any ballot. Wait, you're talking about one of those polls that "Conservatives" never put any faith in, unless they agree with the results..

Actually, it was on the ballot. In fact, until the economy crashed, it was the defining issue of the 2008 Election. So much so that even McCain had to pretend he was for it.

The one who seemed most credible on this issue, won.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Actually, it was on the ballot. In fact, until the economy crashed, it was the defining issue of the 2008 Election. So much so that even McCain had to pretend he was for it.

The one who seemed most credible on this issue, won.

So what you're saying, in essence, is that the little bear is full of shit.

 

[unregistered]

 

[cebalrai]

The Republican position on helping the coverage crisis is basically "do nothing".

They're sitting here saying their proposal only insures 3 million more. But over 1 million per year are losing coverage.

WTF is that?

 

[rosco rathbone]

Maddow: http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/maddow-reconciliation-is-not-the-nuclear-option/

 

[Sonny Limatina]

Actually I don't think I've misunderstood or mischaracterized anything. Politics is no undertaking for the squeamish. I've left my idealistic naivety about the machinations of government long in the past. The profound fear the founders had for the accumulated power of government has, through the wisdom of experience, made itself known to me some years ago.

We as a nation have elected to expand our government to the point it threatens our very freedom, it seeks to diminish it further, it has become surly and unresponsive, too big to manage. Like Jefferson, "I tremble for my nation when I reflect that God is just."

That wasn't the part you misstated. I actually think the public could care less whether a majority is 51 votes or 60. Raise your hands. The side with the most hands up, wins. So yes, remove the artifice.

And yes, the Democrats are cowards.

No, health-care is not the big-government plague you righties like to pretend it is. And no, the voters aren't against it. They're simply against the slice of it they've been sold by a hysterical and reactionary right.

Lest you think I'm taking a partisan and cheap shot, I think the left is just as hysterical and just as reactionary.

Our health care system is an embarrassment, no matter how good our doctors are and how rich they can get. The de-regulation crowd has been shown to be wrong over and over again. So has the overregulation crowd. If we lead with reason and avail ourselves of all the tools available to us, regardless of which is associated with which "side," we'll end up with something like what's on the table: let the free market work, but when it's not, use just enough regulation to make sure it's not at the expense of the citizens.

If one drops the knee-jerk branding of either side and takes this issue on its face, there really is no question here, and I suspect that deep down, both sides know it.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

And you want to talk to me about misunderstanding, and mischaracterization. Jesus.

All three candidates were anti-war.

All three were anti-Bush.

If that was enough, why was McCain selling Health Care Reform?

 

[koalabear]

All three candidates were anti-war.

All three were anti-Bush.

If that was enough, why was McCain selling Health Care Reform?

John McCain is a Progressive too.

 

[koalabear]

When exactly did the voters voice that opinion? I don't recall seeing it on any ballot. Wait, you're talking about one of those polls that "Conservatives" never put any faith in, unless they agree with the results..

Oh look, the troll with the cholesterol laden ass cheeks is back, and his head is still between them.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[cebalrai]

Literally every poll I've seen opposes this bill and you can't blame that on the hysterical reactionary right. You assume the people haven't read this bill or at least investigated it. This is the kind of arrogance that is going to come home to roost in November. Americans want reform, they do not want the government involved to the extent the Democrat plan contemplates, it's as simple as that.

50% of people still believe the bill is going to force "death panels" on us, to euthanize our family members. Most also believe it involves the government telling doctors what to do, which it clearly does not.

Yet you assert that Americans know what's in it?

Really?

 

[busybody..]

while Scent a Turd posts polls from AGES ago

reality is


Gallup poll shows Democrats have most to lose at the summitposted at 3:50 pm on February 25, 2010 by Ed Morrissey



If Barack Obama hoped to put Republicans on the defensive by holding a health-care summit today, a new Gallup poll shows that he may have miscalculated badly. Instead of holding Republicans responsible for not agreeing with Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid, survey responders say that Democrats had better convince Republicans to move — or be prepared to start over from scratch. A majority outright oppose any attempt to push ObamaCare through Congress using reconciliation as well:


Americans are skeptical that lawmakers will agree on a new healthcare bill at Thursday’s bipartisan healthcare summit in Washington, D.C. If an agreement is not reached, Americans by a 49% to 42% margin oppose rather than favor Congress passing a healthcare bill similar to the one proposed by President Obama and Democrats in the House and Senate. By a larger 52% to 39% margin, Americans also oppose the Democrats in the Senate using a reconciliation procedure to avoid a possible Republican filibuster and pass a bill by a simple majority vote. …


Not only are 49% of Americans opposed to passing a bill similar to the one proposed by Obama and the Democrats in the House and Senate, compared with 42% in favor, those “strongly” opposed outnumber those “strongly” in favor by 23% to 11%.

A follow-up question asked specifically about the use of a parliamentary procedure that would allow the Democratic leaders to avoid a Republican filibuster. Again, Americans are opposed by a slightly larger, 52% to 39% margin, and those opposed are more likely to feel strongly about their opinion than those in favor, 25% to 11%.



How out of step are Democrats on this effort? Among independents, reconciliation gets opposed 38/53, although they split evenly on support of current bills in Congress, 48/49. However, far more independents strongly oppose those bills (24%) than strongly favor them (8%). In contrast, 68% of Democrats favor using reconciliation to jam the bill down the throats of the opposition, and 70% favor the Democratic bills — although only 21% favor them strongly.



The summit has not raised expectations among any group; skepticism on results runs from 71% for Democrats to 87% for Republicans, with independents in between at the overall average of 77%. However, it has left Democrats in a tough position. The numbers on ObamaCare among the public have hardly budged in three months, remaining deeply unpopular with voters in any sampling type (this is among adults in general, rather than registered or likely voters). Pushing reconciliation makes it even less popular and will likely fuel more Tea Party protests and a disastrous midterm election. How can Democrats move forward without committing political suicide?


Obama apparently has an incremental approach up his sleeve, as we reported earlier. While Gallup didn’t specifically survey on this question, moving away from the comprehensive reforms demanded by Pelosi at the beginning of the summit would do two things for Obama that he desperately needs — one, give him a victory on health care in any form, and two, allow him to drop the issue before his polling numbers begin to resemble those of George Bush in his last two years as President.

The question will be whether the Congressional Democrats will follow where Obama will lead them, and since Obama hasn’t shown any leadership on his domestic agenda all year, it’s going to be anybody’s guess how or if he’ll succeed. Gallup’s poll shows that voters will hang this on Democrats no matter which way it goes, but especially if they do something other than start over from scratch.

 

[koalabear]

50% of people still believe the bill is going to force "death panels" on us, to euthanize our family members. Most also believe it involves the government telling doctors what to do, which it clearly does not.

Yet you assert that Americans know what's in it?

Really?

Why wouldn't they believe it?

So, the largest denier of claims is……hey, that awesome government run Medicare.

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/10/...ay-to-demonizing-private-insurance-companies/

 

[busybody..]

Why wouldn't they believe it?

So, the largest denier of claims is……hey, that awesome government run Medicare.

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2009/10/...ay-to-demonizing-private-insurance-companies/

and

Michelle Yo Momma's hospital

remember?

 

[koalabear]

and

Michelle Yo Momma's hospital

remember?

I'm old! You expect me to remember!

 

[busybody..]

remeber what?

 

[unregistered]

 

[busybody..]

Here DUMMY


Michelle’s Hospital Turned Away The Poor
February 25th, 2010
This is something we have posted before, but it seems timely again in view of today’s ‘bipartisan healthcare summit.’

From the archives of the Chicago Sun-Times:



Martin Nesbitt, Valerie Jarrett, President Obama, Dr. Eric Whitaker
U. of C. shunning poor patients?
Obama’s wife, 3 aides tied to plan to free up space

August 23, 2008

BY TIM NOVAK AND CHRIS FUSCO Staff Reporters

Sen. Barack Obama’s wife and three close advisers have been involved with a program at the University of Chicago Medical Center that steers patients who don’t have private insurance — primarily poor, black people — to other health care facilities.

Michelle Obama — currently on unpaid leave from her $317,000-a-year job as a vice president of the prestigious hospital — helped create the program, which aims to find neighborhood doctors for low-income people who were flooding the emergency room for basic treatment. Hospital officials say such patients hinder their ability to focus on more critically ill patients in need of specialized care, such as cancer treatment and organ transplants.

Obama’s top political strategist, David Axelrod, co-owns the firm, ASK Public Strategies [which invented ‘astro-turfing’], that was hired by the hospital last year to sell the program — called the Urban Health Initiative — to the community as a better alternative for poor patients. Obama’s wife and Valerie Jarrett, an Obama friend and adviser who chairs the medical center’s board, backed the Axelrod firm’s hiring, hospital officials said.

Another Obama adviser and close friend, Dr. Eric Whitaker, took over the Urban Health Initiative when he was hired at U. of C. in October 2007. Whitaker previously had been director of the Illinois Department of Public Health. Obama has said he recommended Whitaker for the state job, giving his name to Tony Rezko, who helped Gov. Blagojevich assemble his Cabinet. Rezko, a former fund-raiser for Obama and Blagojevich, was convicted in June on federal corruption charges tied to state deals…

"I’ve heard complaints from a handful of constituents, but I’ve also had calls from people in the health care profession complaining," said Ald. Toni Preckwinkle, whose 4th Ward is just north of the hospital. "The medical professionals who have come to me are accusing the university of dumping patients on its neighboring institutions. … Whether it’s being implemented in the way that’s in the best interest of the patient, I can’t tell you."

Sen. John McCain, Obama’s Republican opponent, criticized the Democratic presidential hopeful Friday for having pledged on the campaign trail to expand health care for Americans at the same time his top political strategist "was running a campaign to cut coverage for the poor."

Axelrod, whose firm stopped working on the project in October, responded that he was concerned that presidential politics was distorting the university’s efforts to improve health care for poor people and to lower costs.

Whitaker, who has traveled with Obama on the presidential campaign trail, chalked up the criticism to people opposed to change.

"In the past, we opened our doors and saw whoever came," Whitaker said Friday. "We would see a patient who had general pneumonia, and if we needed to see a patient who needed a liver transplant, that liver transplant patient couldn’t get in the door." …

At the same time, the Urban Health Initiative is improving the university’s finances. Fewer poor patients are showing up at the U. of C. emergency room for basic medical treatment and are no longer admitted to the hospital. That frees beds for transplants, cancer care and other more-profitable medical procedures that the university prides itself on.

That is, Michelle and her then boss Mr. Whitaker didn’t want lower paying patients to get in the way of the more high profit patients.

"The collapse of the health care system was driving more and more people to the emergency room," Axelrod said. "The trend line was and is a disastrous one from the standpoint of maintaining the hospital. Their goal was to find an answer."

So they are only taking patients that will best help their bottom line.

Axelrod’s firm did polling and found that some of the university’s primary-care doctors feared the hospital was turning its back on surrounding poor neighborhoods, according to a May 2007 report the firm gave the university.

Axelrod’s firm also suggested the program’s name be changed. "Some participants view the word ‘urban’ as code for ‘black,’ " according to a poll the firm commissioned.

 

[koalabear]

Here DUMMY


Michelle’s Hospital Turned Away The Poor
February 25th, 2010
This is something we have posted before, but it seems timely again in view of today’s ‘bipartisan healthcare summit.’

From the archives of the Chicago Sun-Times:



Martin Nesbitt, Valerie Jarrett, President Obama, Dr. Eric Whitaker
U. of C. shunning poor patients?
Obama’s wife, 3 aides tied to plan to free up space

August 23, 2008

BY TIM NOVAK AND CHRIS FUSCO Staff Reporters

Sen. Barack Obama’s wife and three close advisers have been involved with a program at the University of Chicago Medical Center that steers patients who don’t have private insurance — primarily poor, black people — to other health care facilities.

Michelle Obama — currently on unpaid leave from her $317,000-a-year job as a vice president of the prestigious hospital — helped create the program, which aims to find neighborhood doctors for low-income people who were flooding the emergency room for basic treatment. Hospital officials say such patients hinder their ability to focus on more critically ill patients in need of specialized care, such as cancer treatment and organ transplants.

Obama’s top political strategist, David Axelrod, co-owns the firm, ASK Public Strategies [which invented ‘astro-turfing’], that was hired by the hospital last year to sell the program — called the Urban Health Initiative — to the community as a better alternative for poor patients. Obama’s wife and Valerie Jarrett, an Obama friend and adviser who chairs the medical center’s board, backed the Axelrod firm’s hiring, hospital officials said.

Another Obama adviser and close friend, Dr. Eric Whitaker, took over the Urban Health Initiative when he was hired at U. of C. in October 2007. Whitaker previously had been director of the Illinois Department of Public Health. Obama has said he recommended Whitaker for the state job, giving his name to Tony Rezko, who helped Gov. Blagojevich assemble his Cabinet. Rezko, a former fund-raiser for Obama and Blagojevich, was convicted in June on federal corruption charges tied to state deals…

"I’ve heard complaints from a handful of constituents, but I’ve also had calls from people in the health care profession complaining," said Ald. Toni Preckwinkle, whose 4th Ward is just north of the hospital. "The medical professionals who have come to me are accusing the university of dumping patients on its neighboring institutions. … Whether it’s being implemented in the way that’s in the best interest of the patient, I can’t tell you."

Sen. John McCain, Obama’s Republican opponent, criticized the Democratic presidential hopeful Friday for having pledged on the campaign trail to expand health care for Americans at the same time his top political strategist "was running a campaign to cut coverage for the poor."

Axelrod, whose firm stopped working on the project in October, responded that he was concerned that presidential politics was distorting the university’s efforts to improve health care for poor people and to lower costs.

Whitaker, who has traveled with Obama on the presidential campaign trail, chalked up the criticism to people opposed to change.

"In the past, we opened our doors and saw whoever came," Whitaker said Friday. "We would see a patient who had general pneumonia, and if we needed to see a patient who needed a liver transplant, that liver transplant patient couldn’t get in the door." …

At the same time, the Urban Health Initiative is improving the university’s finances. Fewer poor patients are showing up at the U. of C. emergency room for basic medical treatment and are no longer admitted to the hospital. That frees beds for transplants, cancer care and other more-profitable medical procedures that the university prides itself on.

That is, Michelle and her then boss Mr. Whitaker didn’t want lower paying patients to get in the way of the more high profit patients.

"The collapse of the health care system was driving more and more people to the emergency room," Axelrod said. "The trend line was and is a disastrous one from the standpoint of maintaining the hospital. Their goal was to find an answer."

So they are only taking patients that will best help their bottom line.

Axelrod’s firm did polling and found that some of the university’s primary-care doctors feared the hospital was turning its back on surrounding poor neighborhoods, according to a May 2007 report the firm gave the university.

Axelrod’s firm also suggested the program’s name be changed. "Some participants view the word ‘urban’ as code for ‘black,’ " according to a poll the firm commissioned.

That has to be a huge typo, the Bam's would never be part of that......

 

[Xplorr7]

Look at the faces of Pelosi, Reid, slow Joe, and duh1 at the 1:35 mark when Lamar Alexander is asking them to renounce the use of reconcilation in passing health care reform.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VetLU6yoKxs&feature=player_embedded

(For those of you who don't want to watch, HR and NP look like busted school children, JB is cringing knowing he's busted, duh1 just looks pissed that someone would step to his excellency.)

Leaves no doubt what this was about and what they are (were) planning.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

Insurance bureaucrats already tell doctors what to do, and to assume a government won't be doing the same is naive.

Not that I expect it to raise the level of discourse around here--and ignoring the first part of this post, which I left off, and which is wrong--it's about time someone posted an actual, debatable, two-sides-to-it regardless-of-party, point on this issue.

I'm not going to debate it, but I wanted to offer props.

 

[miles]

I'm not taking the arrogant position of asserting that they only know what the reactionary right is telling them, you are. I'm saying they know better than that. Only a naive person would believe this bill will leave your right to private insurance intact, only a naive person will believe the government won't be telling doctors what to do. Insurance bureaucrats already tell doctors what to do, and to assume a government won't be doing the same is naive.

It's the tired old liberal mantra. Anyone who opposes them is stupid.