SM Survey - it's for science!!

[Netzach]

Because organizing that kind of raw data takes considerably more man-hours and isn't much more of an exact science when it comes down to it.

I for one am particularly hungry for statistics on kinksters, even possibly inaccurate or slanted ones. They all are, after all, but there are plenty of issues I wouldn't mind having at least a pivot point on.

I agree with this. I know it's all damnable statistics at the end of the day, but there's so little representation. It would be cool to know about people's habiits - for example a lot of bondage people I talk to are all hunched that MOST people experiment with bondage, but we can't prove that because no one will study it. Well or poorly or whatever.

Again, I think the point of this puppy is more one of "look, we may be fucked up or may not and we're not fucked up how you THINK we're fucked up!"

 

[Marquis]

I agree with this. I know it's all damnable statistics at the end of the day, but there's so little representation. It would be cool to know about people's habiits - for example a lot of bondage people I talk to are all hunched that MOST people experiment with bondage, but we can't prove that because no one will study it. Well or poorly or whatever.

Again, I think the point of this puppy is more one of "look, we may be fucked up or may not and we're not fucked up how you THINK we're fucked up!"

I'm not sure what the point is, but I hope it is as you described.

Still, I can't get over the defensiveness of people in this thread. It's something that seems really endemic within the community whenever this stuff comes up and I feel that it's really, REALLY counterproductive to us being seen as well balanced individuals. I can only imagine how this is going to skew the data itself.

 

[Etoile]

I'm a complete whackjob, but it has nothing to do with my interest in BDSM.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I'm not sure what the point is, but I hope it is as you described.

Still, I can't get over the defensiveness of people in this thread. It's something that seems really endemic within the community whenever this stuff comes up and I feel that it's really, REALLY counterproductive to us being seen as well balanced individuals. I can only imagine how this is going to skew the data itself.

I've read enough similar 'scientific' studies to believe that what you see as defensiveness is called for.

Notwistanding the methodological issues associated with the survey sample and the collecting method, there are a lot of problematic issues with the way the questions of this survey are framed, the kind of answers they lead to or allow for (or don't allow for), the loaded or ambiguous terms that are being used, etc. All of which makes me, as a social scientist, VERY skeptical and critical of whatever 'data' they will collect with this survey.

And call me paranoid if you want, but there's nothing innocent in the fact that this survey starts by asking questions about personal history of mental illness.

The way this questionaire is constructed and framed is illustrative to me of many problematic assumptions held by the researchers about SM and mental illness *. And those assumptions are more than likely going to taint how they are going to interpret the informations collected through this survey.

Numbers and stats are never just that. The way we go around to get those numbers influences the kind of numbers we get. And as any economist or accountant will tell you, you can make numbers tell everything and its opposite.

As for faith in academia -- well, call me an self-excommunicated.

* ETA: to say nothing of the researchers apparent very limited understanding of queer (in the most broadest sense of the term) sexualities. For fuck sake, modern SM came of of the leather gay scene. A scene where trans and other genderqueer people are significantly more visible than in the mainstream. You'd think that those researchers would be aware of this and include other choice than male/female in the 'what gender are you' question. Or that they would have read some queer theory and be aware that het/bi/gay are not the only sexual categories that exist and that are used by people in the scene to identify and organize around.

ETA: Also, it's not as if there isn't a history of pathologizing 'deviant' sexuality as a tool of social disciplining and control. Women's sexuality and hysteria anyone? It's only in 1980 that homosexuality has been removed from the DSM as a category of mental disorder. As for BDSM? It is only since 1994 with the DSM IV edition that consensual sadomasochistic behavior alone is not considered a sexual disorder anymore. But according to the DSM-IV TR, published in 2000, sadomasochistic behavior as a pathological disorder can still be diagnosed if the patient acts on these sexual urges, even if it is consensual.

 

[Marquis]

Interesting.

The reason I call you and others expressing similar opinions paranoid is because you question the surveyors' motives rather than their competence.

If anything, the empirical evidence you provide (which I hate to tell you buttercup, ain't exactly late breaking news) goes to prove that the new trend is towards greater and greater tolerance for kinksters like us.

It may not be popular, but it's certainly hip and that's usually how things work, eh?

Listen people.

Fill out the fucking survey.

Be honest.

Think of it like the Cosmo quiz you do with your girlfriends at the dildo party. Interesting yes; life altering information, probably not.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Interesting.

The reason I call you and others expressing similar opinions paranoid is because you question the surveyors' motives rather than their competence.

I'm actually questioning both their motives and their competence. On the basis of which I've just send them a email asking them for more information regarding their study, its methodology, the main research questions guiding the study, etc. Which btw, according to good research practices and protocoles should normally be made easily available to the participants in the survey. The lack of such informations is another reasons for me to doubt both their competence and their motives.

Actually, motives is probably not the right word. I don't necessarily think that they are out there to catch us and make us look bad. I do think however, based on the reasons stated in my previous post, that they hold very problematic and unquestioned assumptions regarding BDSM and sexuality, and mental illness and that those assumptions will necessarily taint the conclusions of their research at it taints the construction and phrasing of their survey.

If anything, the empirical evidence you provide (which I hate to tell you buttercup, ain't exactly late breaking news) goes to prove that the new trend is towards greater and greater tolerance for kinksters like us.

Sure, activism by queer and leather communities has forced some openess and tolerance. But tolerance doesn't mean absence of pathologizing. But the point I was trying to make is that there is a very significant history of social science and psychyatry being used as a tool of social control and disciplining, particularly in relation to sexuality.

To me, this survey sounds like a survey on race that would start with questions about personal history of crime and violence. I don't think that it would be paranoid to see such a study in relation to a long history of 'science' being used as a way to explain racism and white supremacist ideas and practices (such as the idea that black people are inherently violent and that they can only be controled by greater violence) and to be worry that the 'findings' would be used to justify the criminalisation and incarceration of people of color. And those studies exist - even in our racially 'tolerant' society.

 

[Marquis]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/paranoidcatsl128391237545625000.jpg

 

[DeservingBitch]

Eh - academia has already brought me to depression. Could well have made me paranoiac too.

 

[magdelena69]

Even despite the horrendous data collection mess, this survey was entirely scientifically unfair, or biased, or just ignorant. What an obvious example of a bunch of crusty old men trying to prove that they are worth their tenure. I hope this never pans out, because I think that BDSM, and even just sorta kinky anything will suffer for it. At least I have accepted myself for what I am and moved on...unlike a bunch of you old men...

Magdie

PS...no, I didn't cut up worms, or small animals, or anything except deli meats. This is actually me trying really hard not to be bitter and angry about everything this survey was implying or attempting to imply...

 

[Xantu]

I partook. (Is that a word?) Anyway, I enjoyed it, but I thought some of the questions were kinda insinuating that S&M practitioners were, at least, neurotic.

Or criminal.

 

[Netzach]

Even despite the horrendous data collection mess, this survey was entirely scientifically unfair, or biased, or just ignorant. What an obvious example of a bunch of crusty old men trying to prove that they are worth their tenure. I hope this never pans out, because I think that BDSM, and even just sorta kinky anything will suffer for it. At least I have accepted myself for what I am and moved on...unlike a bunch of you old men...

Magdie

PS...no, I didn't cut up worms, or small animals, or anything except deli meats. This is actually me trying really hard not to be bitter and angry about everything this survey was implying or attempting to imply...

Really?

For some reason I picture two nice gay bearcubs or something. The old skool site look just is consistent in my mind with that segment of the demographic. Just a couple of chubby beaded gay grad students who may not be as immersed in poMo as some of us, to their probable happiness. That's what I think is on the other side of the one-way mirror.

I strongly doubt that whoever made this survey is looking for academic kudos and tenure. Looking into SM and sex is a great way NOT to get tenture and NOT to make any money.

 

[Marquis]

Yo, actually this is some crazy shit guys, check this out!

So I decided to run a crawler bot through the system to trace the network path - some hacker shit here, you guys don't know what I'm talking about - but the point is, I figured out who's running the survey!

It's the department of homeland security! And they're tracking IPs!

This is it y'all. We'll all be Baker Acted by the end of the month. Placed in special hospital "camps" for the perversely insane.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Just a couple of chubby beaded gay grad students who may not be as immersed in poMo as some of us, to their probable happiness.

To their probable happiness indeed. Haha.

 

[magdelena69]

Yo, actually this is some crazy shit guys, check this out!

So I decided to run a crawler bot through the system to trace the network path - some hacker shit here, you guys don't know what I'm talking about - but the point is, I figured out who's running the survey!

It's the department of homeland security! And they're tracking IPs!

This is it y'all. We'll all be Baker Acted by the end of the month. Placed in special hospital "camps" for the perversely insane.

I call top bunk!

 

[Etoile]

Think of it like the Cosmo quiz you do with your girlfriends at the dildo party. Interesting yes; life altering information, probably not.

Shows what you know about dildo parties, buster. My wife and I went to one and there was no Cosmo quiz...but there was a lot of running to and from the bathroom. And not to pee, either.

 

[Etoile]

So I decided to run a crawler bot through the system to trace the network path - some hacker shit here, you guys don't know what I'm talking about - but the point is, I figured out who's running the survey!

It's the department of homeland security! And they're tracking IPs!

This is it y'all. We'll all be Baker Acted by the end of the month. Placed in special hospital "camps" for the perversely insane.

Some hacker you are...I ran a tracert on the web host and it turns out it's being operated out of Area 51 and they're trying to identify aliens who might be posing as ordinary Americans!

*gets crazy Jack Nicholson look in eyes*

 

[Marquis]

Shows what you know about dildo parties, buster. My wife and I went to one and there was no Cosmo quiz...but there was a lot of running to and from the bathroom. And not to pee, either.

Speaking of which, I just bought my first dildo today.

Last time I bought a masturbatory sex toy for a female (the hitachi magic wand) turned out to be a horrific mistake, so I think I'll have to be very strict about when this baby gets cracked out.

 

[graceanne]

Yo, actually this is some crazy shit guys, check this out!

So I decided to run a crawler bot through the system to trace the network path - some hacker shit here, you guys don't know what I'm talking about - but the point is, I figured out who's running the survey!

It's the department of homeland security! And they're tracking IPs!

This is it y'all. We'll all be Baker Acted by the end of the month. Placed in special hospital "camps" for the perversely insane.

You know, someone's going to take you seriously and totally freak out.

 

[Marquis]

You know, someone's going to take you seriously and totally freak out.

Yeah, that's happened before.

 

[snowy ciara]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c55/snowyciara/paranoiaith128435510066668750.jpg

 

[Netzach]

Yo, actually this is some crazy shit guys, check this out!

So I decided to run a crawler bot through the system to trace the network path - some hacker shit here, you guys don't know what I'm talking about - but the point is, I figured out who's running the survey!

It's the department of homeland security! And they're tracking IPs!

This is it y'all. We'll all be Baker Acted by the end of the month. Placed in special hospital "camps" for the perversely insane.

Dude, my bag to Cincinnati already got me on the list. It was over long before this.

 

[Etoile]

Speaking of which, I just bought my first dildo today.

Last time I bought a masturbatory sex toy for a female (the hitachi magic wand) turned out to be a horrific mistake, so I think I'll have to be very strict about when this baby gets cracked out.

Wait, you JUST NOW bought your first dildo? You are not the kinkster-of-all-trades I had been told you were! Oh well, no time like the present to start catching up.

Also, the Hitachi Magic Wand is the best vibrator out there. How was it a mistake to give one?

 

[Netzach]

Tie a hitachi to someone's crotch and redefine torture for you and your loved ones after enough time passes.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Don't own a hitachi, never tried one on me or anyone either.

Am I gonna have my lesbo/kinster card removed?

 

[Netzach]

Don't own a hitachi, never tried one on me or anyone either.

Am I gonna have my lesbo/kinster card removed?

It wasn't my hitachi. I'm a wahl coil girl.