Socialism

[sigh]

This discussion has missed the point, the United States already practices Socialism.....And everyone loves it when their Social Security checks come in or they get a refund on their income tax because they kids qualify them for an Earned Income Credit. Both are attempts at redistributing wealth. We just don’t like it when they take our wealth and give it to someone else.

Aw hell, now BBoy will come and start all over again about how that ain't socialism and you're just a stupid fuck and only he knows everything about everything.

Damn.

 

[doowdniw]

A new Gallup poll released Monday found that 43 percent of Americans think socialism would be a good thing for the United States, while 51 percent say it would be a bad thing.


When you hear the word socialism, what thoughts come to your mind?

Farm subsidies.

 

[Kantarii]

This discussion has missed the point, the United States already practices Socialism.....And everyone loves it when their Social Security checks come in or they get a refund on their income tax because they kids qualify them for an Earned Income Credit. Both are attempts at redistributing wealth. We just don’t like it when they take our wealth and give it to someone else.

You lost me. How exactly is the money I get back on my tax returns a redistribution of wealth? Wasn’t that money mine in the first place?

 

[magicalmoments]

Government ownership and or control over the means of production and distribution of goods and services.

Generally sold on the lie that control will result in social/economic equity....equal outcomes for all.

The ideology responsible for the systematic extermination of half a BILLION people in the last century including most my family.

I guess we were just unlucky that they missed you.

 

[oggbashan]

EU rules mean that governments CANNOT own the means of production or illegally subsidise them.

How's that going with Boeing, USA?

 

[SpeareChucker]

What do you define as illegal?



And what about when the EU hammers US companies on behalf of their "non-subsidized" industries...

 

[SpeareChucker]

The US has dabbled in Socialism.

Anywhere you find bloated, mismanaged and eternally broke you will uncover the employment of "just a little Democratic Socialism..."

 

[oggbashan]

What do you define as illegal?



And what about when the EU hammers US companies on behalf of their "non-subsidized" industries...

Illegal by EU terms? That is a minefield of legislation which seems biased in favour of France and against the UK (and US).

 

[SpeareChucker]

So, indirect subsidy is the general rule...



Crass Mercantilism.



Like China.

 

[bellisarius]

So, indirect subsidy is the general rule...



Crass Mercantilism.



Like China.

China is more closely akin to a criminal syndicate why they're still referred to as the Communist Chinese is more a function of habit than fact.

 

[SpeareChucker]

The rule of man tends to the strong man.





Socialism tends to the rule of man.
Honest law? Not fair...

 

[BotanyBoy]

This discussion has missed the point, the United States already practices Socialism.....And everyone loves it when their Social Security checks come in or they get a refund on their income tax because they kids qualify them for an Earned Income Credit. Both are attempts at redistributing wealth. We just don’t like it when they take our wealth and give it to someone else.

Wealth redistribution is socialistic and no, we don't like it, it's un-American.

Aw hell, now BBoy will come and start all over again about how that ain't socialism and you're just a stupid fuck and only he knows everything about everything.

Damn.

Did I burst your "Socialism is all RAINBOWS AND UNICORNS!!!" bubble there comrade? Sorry....but not sorry, shit is a vile and evil ideology.

I guess we were just unlucky that they missed you.

Another good comrade looking forward to the day the god state starves 100 million Americans to death.

EU rules mean that governments CANNOT own the means of production or illegally subsidise them.

How's that going with Boeing, USA?

Did we subsidizes Boeing or just do bidnizz with them?

 

[zipman]

Aw hell, now BBoy will come and start all over again about how that ain't socialism and you're just a stupid fuck and only he knows everything about everything.

Damn.

LOL, he's highly repetitive and totally incorrect when it comes to most subjects. But he is consistent.

I put him on ignore after he kept lying and ascribing positions to me that I don't hold. It just got old.

 

[magicalmoments]

For a country that embraces the free market the USA certainly seems to have a lot of government involvement in the economy. I'm thinking specifically the agriculture sector, tax payer funded subsidies to farmers that can't get favourable prices for their products that in a free market would just go to the wall. Just a form of creeping socialism.
Also tariffs as a means to protect local industries that can't compete on a free market. A key element of controlling the means of production. Creeping socialism again.
And the scary thing for USA citizens is that they can't find a viable candidate to oppose the orange buffoon currently destroying their country.

 

[jomar]

Did this poll define socialism for respondents?

 

[Kantarii]

This thread has been a real eye opener.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Did this poll define socialism for respondents?

Without some bullshit redefining of the word one should assume consensus definition which can be found in the encyclopedias and dictionaries.

 

[trysail]

The New York Times Does "What Went Wrong In Venezuela?"

by Francis Menton
"Manhattan Contrarian"

"...In the past couple of weeks, the New York Times has had two big articles about Venezuela, describing the horrific conditions that now exist there, and analyzing what went wrong. On May 14, it was “How Venezuela Stumbled to the Brink of Collapse”; and on May 17 it was “Venezuela’s Collapse Is the Worst Outside of War in Decades, Economists Say.”

It will not surprise you that the word “socialism” does not appear in either article. But the stupidity here goes far beyond just not mentioning the subject of “socialism.” The affirmative effort in these articles is to somehow shift the blame for Venezuela’s economic collapse to something other than socialism, whether it be “poor governance,” corruption, or general incompetence. The May 17 piece does have a reference to “misguided policies,” but they never say what those “misguided policies” may be. Widespread nationalizations of industry? Massive public housing schemes? Heavily subsidized food and household products? “Free” healthcare? None of these are mentioned..."​

(lots) more...



​

​

 

[trysail]

EU rules mean that governments CANNOT own the means of production or illegally subsidise them.

How's that going with Boeing, USA?

As if the EU hasn't heavily subsidized Airbus Industrie.


​

 

[jomar]

Without some bullshit redefining of the word one should assume consensus definition which can be found in the encyclopedias and dictionaries.

One shouldn’t assume anything when creating a poll. People aren’t going to look it up before responding and so will answer according to their understanding, which may or may not be correct.

 

[BotanyBoy]

One shouldn’t assume anything when creating a poll.

So you require a definition for every word used to be linked with the poll?

That would be an enormous post and totally absurd defeating the entire purpose of a written language.

People aren’t going to look it up before responding and so will answer according to their understanding, which may or may not be correct.

Their assumptions and ignorance aren't the responsibility of the poll creator.

It's up to the person going outside consensus definitions to inform others they are using an uncommon definition of a word.

 

[jomar]

So you require a definition for every word used to be linked with the poll?

That would be an enormous post and totally absurd defeating the entire purpose of a written language.

I never said that.

Their assumptions and ignorance aren't the responsibility of the poll creator.

It's up to the person going outside consensus definitions to inform others they are using an uncommon definition of a word.

If you want an accurate poll on socialism, you define it. Then you can be more sure you’re getting reliable answers to the questions your asking instead of people answering based on some fuzzy idea of what they think socialism is.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If you want an accurate poll on socialism, you define it.

Why?? It's already been well defined for well over 100 years now.

Collective or government ownership and or administration over the means of production and distribution of goods and services.

Then you can be more sure you’re getting reliable answers to the questions your asking instead of people answering based on some fuzzy idea of what they think socialism is.

Again, catering to ignorance and or dishonesty isn't the responsibility of a poll creator.

 

[jomar]

Why?? It's already been well defined for well over 100 years now.

Collective or government ownership and or administration over the means of production and distribution of goods and services.

LOL, read through this thread. Even you commented on the variations folk had on it.

Again, catering to ignorance and or dishonesty isn't the responsibility of a poll creator.

If the poll maker wants an accurate poll it is absolutely their responsibility to make sure people are responding to what they want them to respond to...and they tee it up with defining the terms.

 

[icanhelp1]

One shouldn’t assume anything when creating a poll. People aren’t going to look it up before responding and so will answer according to their understanding, which may or may not be correct.

And that rings true at the ballot box. An uninformed electorate could bring down this great republic. The advanced guard of democratic socialism ( Bernie Sanders, AOC ) are making promises they can't keep. They are playing to the minds of a younger generation that democratic socialism will get them free stuff. This advanced guard fails to enlighten this naive generation the other side of free stuff, who pays for it? It's the responsibility of the media to paint an accurate picture of what democratic socialism really is. We need to educate our electorate comparing both free market capitalism with democratic socialism. Look into Denmark, Sweden, Finland, New Zealand and even Canada. Most of these democratic socialist government started as a result of vibrant capitalistic free market society. Look at their tax structure, healthcare system, some of the freedoms they lost and how their people exist today. I'm not going to write 40 + pages of the history of democratic socialism but before you rush to judgement or the ballot box you best know what you're voting for and what you stand to lose. Start with the issue of health care. People need health care but it has to be a blend of what works for everyone. One model does not fit all. ACA did not fit all. Be an informed citizen and know the facts, do your homework, don't let other people do it for you. Vote with confidence not emotion.