BlackShanglan
Silver-Tongued Papist
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
- Posts
- 16,888
ChilledVodkaIV said:
Whole lot of cleaving going on in here, is my learned opinion.
Stop having kids ... just fucking stop
- Thread starter Seattle Zack
- Start date
Whole lot of cleaving going on in here, is my learned opinion.
G
Guest
Guest
Cool!
With a hundred thousand children waiting to be adopted that gives my wife and I a good chance at getting one of those rodents
I had a vasectomy during my first marriage and now my new wife wants kids, if you have a spare send them along.
With a hundred thousand children waiting to be adopted that gives my wife and I a good chance at getting one of those rodents
I had a vasectomy during my first marriage and now my new wife wants kids, if you have a spare send them along.
yui
A Different Scene
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2003
- Posts
- 5,351
I stand by my post. I find anything that calls any woman a moronic breeder cow offensive.
I also objected to the equation that money equals success; and by implication that money equals successful parenting. I still object. Bad parenting crosses all socio/economic boundaries.
The references to the drain on "welfare tax dollar" are uninformed. The largest drain on the welfare system is adult Medicaid (to keep the elderly in nursing homes). Approximately 1.6 million people reside in 18,000 nursing homes nationwide with and average yearly cost of $70,080. The average length of stay is something like 2.4 years. Where do you think the money comes from?
Many states have "caps" or "clocks" on AFDC/TANF/Work First. This means that an individual is only eligible to receive monetary assistance for X amount of time regardless of the number of children. "Child Support Enforcement" also attempts to recoup those monies from the absent parent (Usually the father. Think?) to repay that program.
There is too much misinformation in what has been said to address blow by blow – no one really cares and I don't want to waste my time or yours. Also, everyone who is reacting post-Lucky's post is getting a different perspective on SZ than his initial post gave. Sure, possible motives for the post are clearer, but the content is still skewed.
I have worked both as eligibility caseworker and as a social worker in child protective services. The most important lesson I learned, is that until you have lived someone else's life, you don't know what you don't know.
Luck to all,
Yui
I also objected to the equation that money equals success; and by implication that money equals successful parenting. I still object. Bad parenting crosses all socio/economic boundaries.
The references to the drain on "welfare tax dollar" are uninformed. The largest drain on the welfare system is adult Medicaid (to keep the elderly in nursing homes). Approximately 1.6 million people reside in 18,000 nursing homes nationwide with and average yearly cost of $70,080. The average length of stay is something like 2.4 years. Where do you think the money comes from?
Many states have "caps" or "clocks" on AFDC/TANF/Work First. This means that an individual is only eligible to receive monetary assistance for X amount of time regardless of the number of children. "Child Support Enforcement" also attempts to recoup those monies from the absent parent (Usually the father.
Think?) to repay that program. There is too much misinformation in what has been said to address blow by blow – no one really cares and I don't want to waste my time or yours. Also, everyone who is reacting post-Lucky's post is getting a different perspective on SZ than his initial post gave. Sure, possible motives for the post are clearer, but the content is still skewed.
I have worked both as eligibility caseworker and as a social worker in child protective services. The most important lesson I learned, is that until you have lived someone else's life, you don't know what you don't know.
Luck to all,
Yui
Quiet_Cool
Learning to Fly
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2001
- Posts
- 5,897
It's nice to see that cooler heads almost prevailed here.
I wanna say this first: People are quoting the success rates of this birth-conrol and that one, and saying that people have no real control over whether or not pregnacy occurs: This is false. i hate the idea of life without sex, but when my girl and I (she's on the pill) lay down together, it's a choice and we're aware of the risks. Taking the pill doesn't make us less responsible for the outcome. I get so tired of hearing people say things like "the condom broke, it wasn't my fault." Guess what? You were fucking. That's how baby's are made. And if you're too stupid to realize that there are risks, you shouldn't be having sex. Some people think that sounds extreme, and it does to me as well, but that's mostly because we don't want to hear it. Not because it isn't true. Ask a nun: you won't die without it. If you go to an amusement park, you pay to get in, you pay to ride rides, you pay to play games. Pleasure has its price. If you're not ready to pay, stay off the bumper cars.
I'll say something in Zack's favor, if not more than one thing. Many people drain the system. They may not empty it, but they drain it, and we've all admitted it, so I don't need to go into much detail. In the area I live in, many people have children and are on welfare, because of decisions they've made that have been for the worse, but most of these people are at least trying to raise the kids, and are doing thier best. The aid is exactly that: AID.
But not far from where I live, where I work, things are more, shall we say... metropolitan? Not overly more, in terms of actual habitat, but in the mindset. They seem to think they're more cityfolk, whereas my area is a lot of "rednecks" in a sense. We're country (not in the "Deliverance", "hey, sis, come give me some of that blouse full of goodies sense", but still country) they're not. Even the ones who think they are aren't. But in that area, a lot of people are the type that we tend to group welfare mothers into. They do and sell drugs, they drvie in better cars than I have, or my family members have, and they don't even have jobs. SHould a welfare recipient be wearing FUBU gear? Doesn't make much sense to me. You can come up with a ten mile list of where they might have gotten it, grandma and grandpa, and mom and dad, and the second-hand store. Most of them got it with welfare money, or drug money. Are they the majority, no. But they're most likely the ones Zack was referring to.
And if you don't fit into that category, it makes sense that he simply wasn't talking about you. Period. No question and answer period required.
Why can't some of you get that?
Before I go further, I want to point out I think it's great that most of the people here have read the excepts that lucky posted and considered Zack's position before continuing to judge him. That's what we need more of here, understanding toward one another. We're the hypocrits that everyone's been saying we are all right, but it's human nature. You guys have proven yourself better than most just by admitting it and reconsidering. I don't think you're better people now than before you read the thread, but maybe it's more clear to me how good some of you people are.
Then again, some of you really haven't shown that your good. So i might get too personal, or I might be starting into something that my strained and tired eyes (and the headache that goes with them) won't let me finish, and hopefully, I won't be too personal about it. I don't want to attack her, but this pissed me off:
Three paragraphs of nothing but "Me." It was nothing but a bunch of self-centered, arrogant drivel about you and your ignore list. I appreciate it, because when I came here, I didn't really want to know what Zack was talking about (none of us did). We weren't looking for a conversation about the focus or condition of the U.S. Welfare system, or about the lives of underprivileged children or thier single parents. What I wanted to know was when you would have had enough of Zack's responses, and how many more people were going to wind up on your ignore list.
Thanx for keeping me informed. I can sleep better tonight now that I've read your post.
But I'm no less self-centered. I'm sitting here right now wishing that the head-ache I already mentioned wasn't made worse by trudging through this BS to get to any semblence of a point. i'm a hypocrit like everyone else admitted to being, yes?
That's the right attitude. The place is there to help, and you're "sure that not everyone there is a wholier than thou arragant prick..." So... why not go there? It's good that you can see that (perhaps) Zack's doing his job well, and helping, but you come right back around to "arragant prick." How is that exactly? First off, he's venting here; we have no reason to believe he shows this attitude to the people he deals with everyday, now do we?
this response was simply based on your pride, and in my interpretation: It's misplaced and counterproductive.
Oh, good. The "walk a mile in thier shoes" routine. This is a great excuse. Has it ever occurred to you, that maybe, just maybe, you haven't walked in his shoes either? Maybe what he sees from one child and parent after another isn't your scenario day in and day out?
Consider this:
Years in the future, when your kids are grown up (I'm assuming, and perhaps wrongly, that your children are not grown. I just don't get the impression that the person I'm talking to is older than me, and I'm not all that old). You child is driving home, alone and stops at a red light. A person runs up to the window with a gun, demands they get out of the car, then shoots your child in the head and runs off with the vehicle. That person probably had a fucked up childhood, but you're going to hate them anyway. You don't need to be a car-jacker or a murdurer to have the right to.
People pass judgment; it's life. And you never walk a mile in someone else's shoes, because to walk that mile, you have to have been through everything they've been through, have the same upbringing and have made the same choices. No two people are exactly alike.
But before you repeat this in another post or on some other thread, consider the following: You and I don't know each toher. We probably don't live near each other, and we certainly haven't walked a mile in one another's shoes. But I mentioned on a political thread that I was anti-Kerry and pro-bush, and you took the self-righteousness opinionated club and beat me with it until I almost couldn't stand to read the threads any more. You ween't the only one, but you were there, and you just criticized Zack and several other working in his profession (?) for doing the same thing you did. They are trying to help people; you weren't. You were being obnoxious and over-opinionated. I'm not faulting you for it (hell, you can fault me for it, if you want), just be careful faulting Zack for it, in this particular case, anyway.
Yeah, they have gotten that way by somewhat legitimate means. Their parent's should have done better, but they didn't And now, they shouldn't have kids either, not because of thier upbringing, but because of who it turned them into.
There, another ten-mile long post (and damned if my head isn't killing me now).
Sorry for taking up so much space, and for any headaches I might have caused others.
Q_C
I wanna say this first: People are quoting the success rates of this birth-conrol and that one, and saying that people have no real control over whether or not pregnacy occurs: This is false. i hate the idea of life without sex, but when my girl and I (she's on the pill) lay down together, it's a choice and we're aware of the risks. Taking the pill doesn't make us less responsible for the outcome. I get so tired of hearing people say things like "the condom broke, it wasn't my fault." Guess what? You were fucking. That's how baby's are made. And if you're too stupid to realize that there are risks, you shouldn't be having sex. Some people think that sounds extreme, and it does to me as well, but that's mostly because we don't want to hear it. Not because it isn't true. Ask a nun: you won't die without it. If you go to an amusement park, you pay to get in, you pay to ride rides, you pay to play games. Pleasure has its price. If you're not ready to pay, stay off the bumper cars.
I'll say something in Zack's favor, if not more than one thing. Many people drain the system. They may not empty it, but they drain it, and we've all admitted it, so I don't need to go into much detail. In the area I live in, many people have children and are on welfare, because of decisions they've made that have been for the worse, but most of these people are at least trying to raise the kids, and are doing thier best. The aid is exactly that: AID.
But not far from where I live, where I work, things are more, shall we say... metropolitan? Not overly more, in terms of actual habitat, but in the mindset. They seem to think they're more cityfolk, whereas my area is a lot of "rednecks" in a sense. We're country (not in the "Deliverance", "hey, sis, come give me some of that blouse full of goodies sense", but still country) they're not. Even the ones who think they are aren't. But in that area, a lot of people are the type that we tend to group welfare mothers into. They do and sell drugs, they drvie in better cars than I have, or my family members have, and they don't even have jobs. SHould a welfare recipient be wearing FUBU gear? Doesn't make much sense to me. You can come up with a ten mile list of where they might have gotten it, grandma and grandpa, and mom and dad, and the second-hand store. Most of them got it with welfare money, or drug money. Are they the majority, no. But they're most likely the ones Zack was referring to.
And if you don't fit into that category, it makes sense that he simply wasn't talking about you. Period. No question and answer period required.
Why can't some of you get that?
Before I go further, I want to point out I think it's great that most of the people here have read the excepts that lucky posted and considered Zack's position before continuing to judge him. That's what we need more of here, understanding toward one another. We're the hypocrits that everyone's been saying we are all right, but it's human nature. You guys have proven yourself better than most just by admitting it and reconsidering. I don't think you're better people now than before you read the thread, but maybe it's more clear to me how good some of you people are.
Then again, some of you really haven't shown that your good. So i might get too personal, or I might be starting into something that my strained and tired eyes (and the headache that goes with them) won't let me finish, and hopefully, I won't be too personal about it. I don't want to attack her, but this pissed me off:
sweetnpetite said:
Three paragraphs of nothing but "Me." It was nothing but a bunch of self-centered, arrogant drivel about you and your ignore list. I appreciate it, because when I came here, I didn't really want to know what Zack was talking about (none of us did). We weren't looking for a conversation about the focus or condition of the U.S. Welfare system, or about the lives of underprivileged children or thier single parents. What I wanted to know was when you would have had enough of Zack's responses, and how many more people were going to wind up on your ignore list.
Thanx for keeping me informed. I can sleep better tonight now that I've read your post.
But I'm no less self-centered. I'm sitting here right now wishing that the head-ache I already mentioned wasn't made worse by trudging through this BS to get to any semblence of a point. i'm a hypocrit like everyone else admitted to being, yes?
That's the right attitude. The place is there to help, and you're "sure that not everyone there is a wholier than thou arragant prick..." So... why not go there? It's good that you can see that (perhaps) Zack's doing his job well, and helping, but you come right back around to "arragant prick." How is that exactly? First off, he's venting here; we have no reason to believe he shows this attitude to the people he deals with everyday, now do we?
this response was simply based on your pride, and in my interpretation: It's misplaced and counterproductive.
Oh, good. The "walk a mile in thier shoes" routine. This is a great excuse. Has it ever occurred to you, that maybe, just maybe, you haven't walked in his shoes either? Maybe what he sees from one child and parent after another isn't your scenario day in and day out?
Consider this:
Years in the future, when your kids are grown up (I'm assuming, and perhaps wrongly, that your children are not grown. I just don't get the impression that the person I'm talking to is older than me, and I'm not all that old). You child is driving home, alone and stops at a red light. A person runs up to the window with a gun, demands they get out of the car, then shoots your child in the head and runs off with the vehicle. That person probably had a fucked up childhood, but you're going to hate them anyway. You don't need to be a car-jacker or a murdurer to have the right to.
People pass judgment; it's life. And you never walk a mile in someone else's shoes, because to walk that mile, you have to have been through everything they've been through, have the same upbringing and have made the same choices. No two people are exactly alike.
But before you repeat this in another post or on some other thread, consider the following: You and I don't know each toher. We probably don't live near each other, and we certainly haven't walked a mile in one another's shoes. But I mentioned on a political thread that I was anti-Kerry and pro-bush, and you took the self-righteousness opinionated club and beat me with it until I almost couldn't stand to read the threads any more. You ween't the only one, but you were there, and you just criticized Zack and several other working in his profession (?) for doing the same thing you did. They are trying to help people; you weren't. You were being obnoxious and over-opinionated. I'm not faulting you for it (hell, you can fault me for it, if you want), just be careful faulting Zack for it, in this particular case, anyway.
Yeah, they have gotten that way by somewhat legitimate means. Their parent's should have done better, but they didn't And now, they shouldn't have kids either, not because of thier upbringing, but because of who it turned them into.
There, another ten-mile long post (and damned if my head isn't killing me now).
Sorry for taking up so much space, and for any headaches I might have caused others.
Q_C
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Seattle Zack
Count each one
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
- Posts
- 1,128
Well, my whole earlier rant was based upon a situation that occured very recently up here close to where I work and involving someone I know quite well.
By the way, I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of me. Go ahead and put me on ignore, if that makes you feel better; I would rather you did so if you're that threatened by dissention. In fact, I welcome your absence in open discussion. Sincere and heartfelt thanks to everyone who rose to my defense but I don't need it -- I can hold my own.
I'm sure you heard about this case, it made national headlines. As I'm involved with many social services departments, I know one of the social workers involved, although her involvement is very indirect.
This occured about three miles south of where I work. Marie Robinson never had a job, really, never even finished high school, although she still managed to squirt out four children during her 12 year martriage to Mark Robinson, an aviation mechanic. During their custody battle, Mark managed to get sole custody of their children (an amazing feat, considering the fact that only 2% of fathers in Washington are awarded custody in cases like this).
"Respondent is an alcoholic. She needs treatment," Mark Robinson wrote in his request for custody of the youths, then aged 11, 10, 6 and 18 months. "I cannot trust Marie to care for our four children. Not only will she continue to drink, but she frequently passes out."
Time goes on and the lovely Marie meets a new beau at an AA meeting. So she hooks up with him, a recovering alcoholic, and proceeds to squirt out three more kids (total is seven now, if you're scoring at home).
Of course, Marie is on subsidies for her childbirth and her living expenses. She has never worked a day in her worthless life.
So. the dad of the three bastards (#5, #6, and #7 if you're counting) goes to jail for multiple DUI offenses. After being unable to contact the beloved mother of his children, he becomes understandably concerned.
When police got into Marie Robinson's apartment last Sunday afternoon, they found a home in shambles, littered with empty beer cans and smelling of urine and feces, according to court documents. They found 16-month-old Justice and 6-week-old Raiden dead and their mother in bed, seemingly passed out from drinking.
The 16-month old had apparently died quite recently. The 6-week old had been dead for more than a week. The 2 1/2 year old lived for the entire time eating uncooked rice and pasta that he scavenged from the kitchen.
Her refrigerator was stocked. Her pantry held bread, canned fruit and 11 unopened cans of baby formula.
Police found 307 empty beer cans in her apartment and her BAL was .40 when she was arrested. .40 would kill many people.
Mother of the fucking year. State officials say they received four complaints about Marie Robinson's negligence over the past two years, and that two of those allegations resulted in face-to-face home visits between Robinson and a social worker.
In all of the cases, there was no evidence of neglect found.
Stop having fucking kids, would you?
By the way, I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks of me. Go ahead and put me on ignore, if that makes you feel better; I would rather you did so if you're that threatened by dissention. In fact, I welcome your absence in open discussion. Sincere and heartfelt thanks to everyone who rose to my defense but I don't need it -- I can hold my own.
I'm sure you heard about this case, it made national headlines. As I'm involved with many social services departments, I know one of the social workers involved, although her involvement is very indirect.
This occured about three miles south of where I work. Marie Robinson never had a job, really, never even finished high school, although she still managed to squirt out four children during her 12 year martriage to Mark Robinson, an aviation mechanic. During their custody battle, Mark managed to get sole custody of their children (an amazing feat, considering the fact that only 2% of fathers in Washington are awarded custody in cases like this).
"Respondent is an alcoholic. She needs treatment," Mark Robinson wrote in his request for custody of the youths, then aged 11, 10, 6 and 18 months. "I cannot trust Marie to care for our four children. Not only will she continue to drink, but she frequently passes out."
Time goes on and the lovely Marie meets a new beau at an AA meeting. So she hooks up with him, a recovering alcoholic, and proceeds to squirt out three more kids (total is seven now, if you're scoring at home).
Of course, Marie is on subsidies for her childbirth and her living expenses. She has never worked a day in her worthless life.
So. the dad of the three bastards (#5, #6, and #7 if you're counting) goes to jail for multiple DUI offenses. After being unable to contact the beloved mother of his children, he becomes understandably concerned.
When police got into Marie Robinson's apartment last Sunday afternoon, they found a home in shambles, littered with empty beer cans and smelling of urine and feces, according to court documents. They found 16-month-old Justice and 6-week-old Raiden dead and their mother in bed, seemingly passed out from drinking.
The 16-month old had apparently died quite recently. The 6-week old had been dead for more than a week. The 2 1/2 year old lived for the entire time eating uncooked rice and pasta that he scavenged from the kitchen.
Her refrigerator was stocked. Her pantry held bread, canned fruit and 11 unopened cans of baby formula.
Police found 307 empty beer cans in her apartment and her BAL was .40 when she was arrested. .40 would kill many people.
Mother of the fucking year. State officials say they received four complaints about Marie Robinson's negligence over the past two years, and that two of those allegations resulted in face-to-face home visits between Robinson and a social worker.
In all of the cases, there was no evidence of neglect found.
Stop having fucking kids, would you?
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Seattle Zack
Count each one
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
- Posts
- 1,128
yui said:
Just, as an aside, what else would you equate it to? I understand that you're all offended by the breeder cow thing, but we're all lovey-dovey and past that now, right?
So, you think Ralph Nader is successful? A guy who adopts a pathetic 30 grand a year salary and drives around in a beat up old car? You would fuck him?
Maybe an example or two of where no money equated to success would clear me old addled mind.
G
Guest
Guest
I know this might seem crass, shallow even, but I just have to do it: 
Bandit1
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2004
- Posts
- 703
I know where SZ is coming from with his posts.
And it's NOT just a big city problem.
I was doing some research for a non fiction book I have been working on when I interviewed a young mother here in my cousin's home town. Population less than 30,000.
A friend from my recent jail experience introduced me to a girl that he thought would make a good first subject for my book about life on the streets in small town America.
V. C. was 24 at the time of the interview and had a 4 year old daughter.
She had left home at 14 to live with her 34 year old boyfriend who was in prison for aggravated burglary at the time of the interview.
She freely admitted smoking crack and doing crystal meth on a daily basis.
She supported her habit by shoplifting when she could, ran con games using her daughter as a sympathy ploy at every opportunity, and would steal everything portable out of any house that she was let into.
Food stamps having been replaced by a card used much like a credit card in this state, she would buy food and trade the food off for drugs.
Her daughter subsisted mostly on candy and snacks, which her mother would hand out to her whenever the girl asked for them.
During the interview I asked her how she afforded the mobile home that she lived in, she said that her mother's boyfriend gave it to her and paid the lot rent and utilities in exchange for sex.
Here is part of the transcription from the interview.
Me: Do you enjoy the life that you lead now?
V. C.: I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm not letting anyone tell me what to do or how to live my life.
Me: But do you like living the way you do?
V. C.: It's better than working at some shit minimum wage job for a living.
Me: Do you ever worry about your daughter seeing you doing drugs etc.?
V. C.: She has to learn to look out for herself because no one else will. And she has to learn that if she wants something she should just go ahead and take it somehow.
Me: She's just 4 years old. How is she going to just take something from anybody?
V. C.: I already taught her how to jack things from the dollar store and from the grocery store by sticking it up her shirt or in her pants. (laughs) No one bothers checking kids her age anyway.
And if she gets caught, no one raises too much of a fuss about kids her age anyway, they just take the stuff back and I pretend to chew her out. Then we stay out of that store for a while.
Me: So you're proud that she's shoplifting?
V. C.: Why not? If you don't have any money, how else are you going to get what you want or what you need?
(interruption while the daughter throws a screaming tantrum demanding candy which the mother immediately pulls from her purse)
Me: Is the father of your baby involved in the girls life at all?
V. C.: My boyfriend isn't her father. I was turning tricks out in Memphis back then and one of my customers paid extra so he wouldn't have to use a condom. I know he's the daddy because he was the only black man I ever sexed with. I don't like to fuck n****rs.
Me: Where was your boyfriend while you were out hooking?
V. C.: He was in jail there for a year on a possession charge. When he got out, we came back home.
Me: Where do you see yourself in 5 years?
V. C.: I'm going to find some rich guy and marry him and make him give me money and shit.
Listen, I'm getting the shakes. Can you pay me the $20 you promised me now so I can get some stuff to make me feel better?
I paid her the $20 and declined to give her a ride to her connections house.
A month later she was arrested for renting her daughter out to make kid porn videos. She promptly skipped bail and fled town. Her whereabouts are still unknown and a warrant is out for her arrest.
The daughter is now in foster care.
And it's NOT just a big city problem.
I was doing some research for a non fiction book I have been working on when I interviewed a young mother here in my cousin's home town. Population less than 30,000.
A friend from my recent jail experience introduced me to a girl that he thought would make a good first subject for my book about life on the streets in small town America.
V. C. was 24 at the time of the interview and had a 4 year old daughter.
She had left home at 14 to live with her 34 year old boyfriend who was in prison for aggravated burglary at the time of the interview.
She freely admitted smoking crack and doing crystal meth on a daily basis.
She supported her habit by shoplifting when she could, ran con games using her daughter as a sympathy ploy at every opportunity, and would steal everything portable out of any house that she was let into.
Food stamps having been replaced by a card used much like a credit card in this state, she would buy food and trade the food off for drugs.
Her daughter subsisted mostly on candy and snacks, which her mother would hand out to her whenever the girl asked for them.
During the interview I asked her how she afforded the mobile home that she lived in, she said that her mother's boyfriend gave it to her and paid the lot rent and utilities in exchange for sex.
Here is part of the transcription from the interview.
Me: Do you enjoy the life that you lead now?
V. C.: I don't care what anyone thinks. I'm not letting anyone tell me what to do or how to live my life.
Me: But do you like living the way you do?
V. C.: It's better than working at some shit minimum wage job for a living.
Me: Do you ever worry about your daughter seeing you doing drugs etc.?
V. C.: She has to learn to look out for herself because no one else will. And she has to learn that if she wants something she should just go ahead and take it somehow.
Me: She's just 4 years old. How is she going to just take something from anybody?
V. C.: I already taught her how to jack things from the dollar store and from the grocery store by sticking it up her shirt or in her pants. (laughs) No one bothers checking kids her age anyway.
And if she gets caught, no one raises too much of a fuss about kids her age anyway, they just take the stuff back and I pretend to chew her out. Then we stay out of that store for a while.
Me: So you're proud that she's shoplifting?
V. C.: Why not? If you don't have any money, how else are you going to get what you want or what you need?
(interruption while the daughter throws a screaming tantrum demanding candy which the mother immediately pulls from her purse)
Me: Is the father of your baby involved in the girls life at all?
V. C.: My boyfriend isn't her father. I was turning tricks out in Memphis back then and one of my customers paid extra so he wouldn't have to use a condom. I know he's the daddy because he was the only black man I ever sexed with. I don't like to fuck n****rs.
Me: Where was your boyfriend while you were out hooking?
V. C.: He was in jail there for a year on a possession charge. When he got out, we came back home.
Me: Where do you see yourself in 5 years?
V. C.: I'm going to find some rich guy and marry him and make him give me money and shit.
Listen, I'm getting the shakes. Can you pay me the $20 you promised me now so I can get some stuff to make me feel better?
I paid her the $20 and declined to give her a ride to her connections house.
A month later she was arrested for renting her daughter out to make kid porn videos. She promptly skipped bail and fled town. Her whereabouts are still unknown and a warrant is out for her arrest.
The daughter is now in foster care.
BlackShanglan
Silver-Tongued Papist
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2004
- Posts
- 16,888
Seattle Zack said:
This is a traditional complaint of those unable to express themselves civilly in debate. I can speak only for myself, but personally I find the question of how to support children without enabling negative parental behaviors stimulating and interesting. I am not threatened by your alledged dissension - indeed, you have not actually expressed substantial dissent to any position I've heard anyone in the thread take. You are, however, being ill-mannered and unpleasant, which is a wholly different and considerably less inventive behavior.
The awkward problem to solve is how to supply aid to children without enabling potentially negative behaviors on their parents' part. Some people, of course, find themselves in poverty through painful circumstances over which they had relatively little control. However, I think it not unreasonably reactionary to suggest that some also find themselves there through lack of foresight and poor decision making. The question is, how do you effectively minister to the needs of the children when the money goes through someone with poor foresight and decision-making skills? I'm not a great fan of taking people's children away from them, although the story above certainly makes the point that sometimes it's appropriate. Sometimes the utopian communist in me wants to see something more structured and cooperative - some sort of place where people are supplied housing and food in exchange for working, learning a trade, and doing some communal child-care shifts where they both take care of children for others who are working and learn parenting skills themselves from some skilled overseers. Oh, and I think it would be absolutely marvelous to have the men doing turns at that as well, just to reinforce that we're all part of the producing/raising children issue.
Then I realize, of course, that with real actual humans it would be a bloody shambles. Alas, the lure of the utopian ideal.
Liar
now with 17% more class
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Um... I think you missed the point. Money does not equal success. That dos not mean that something else equals success, just that monety is no guarantee of it. There are enough fucked up/abiuseive/alcoholic/whatever upper and middle class people/families/homes in the world to back that statement up. It's easier to live a good life with a big wallet, but as long as we are humans, we can always find ways not to.Seattle Zack said:
#L
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Quiet_Cool
Learning to Fly
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Bandit1 said:
Good.
Probably too late to really turn her life around (sad to say), but good.
Q_C
BlackShanglan
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Seattle Zack said:
Oh, I nearly forgot. I'd argue that the individuals below were happy with their level of success:
1) W. B. Yeats. Poor most of his life; also a Nobel Prize-winning poet.
2) John Keats. Desperately poor; highly revered.
3) Mahatma Ghandi. I place him here in ignorance of his actual monetary status, but in recognition that he rejected the trappings of wealth and therefore seemed to feel it played no part in his success. Facing down the entire British empire was a pretty decent score.
4) St. Francis of Assisi (which I can't spell); not many people are still that widely known and revered when they're been dead for 500 years.
5) Mother Theresa of Calcutta. Again, seemed pretty happy to me, achieved her goals nicely, and even got a bit famous.
Just the ones that struck me immediately. I'm sure that there are many more.
SlickTony
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Here's a herd of breeder cows nobody's discussed yet: the female half of many of the smug, golden young couples I go to church with. The male half is an up-and-coming young lawyer or software developer or exec and has benefits out the wazoo. They have had three kids and the fourth is in the oven. Between them they have insurance that'll cover the births of all of them. All well and good. The kids have strollers that cost almost as much as your first car. All well and good. And they were so aghast at the thought of Adam and Evan registering at Bed, Bath and Beyond, they trouped down to their respective polling places and voted Bush into office.
Quiet_Cool
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SlickTony said:
I was reading this thinking you had some relevant point to what you were saying until the end. And I just couldn't wait for someone would show up and make this political. Thanx Tony.
Y'know, it's funny how people want to keep this a free country by telling us how to vote.
Q_C
sweetnpetite
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Quiet_Cool said:
That's fine if you look at sex as a moral issue (should vs shouldn't) but I look at sex as it is (morals are different everywere)- a biological drive. Our bodies are created for it, push us toward it with the same kinds of urges that push us to eat, drink and sleep- both concious and subconscious ones. We *are* meant to have sex, and *not* doing it, while possible, is fighting the natural and normal course of events. It won't kill you, but it's a lot more involved than just going- oh ok, I'm not going to have sex. Lots of girls get pregnant saying just that very thing.
sweetnpetite
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Quiet_Cool said:
she's 4, i think there's hope for her
if the system doesn't abuse her too
sweetnpetite
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Quiet_Cool said:
Y'know, it's funny how people want to keep this a free country by telling us how to vote.
Q_C
Since when does free mean 'free to oppress'?
sweetnpetite
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Bandit1 said:
That is nothing short of tragic. My heart goes out.
Of course it really doesn't have anything to do with breeding or cows...
While it's true that 100% of people who abuse there own children are parents, it's certainly not true that 100% of parents abuse there kids. Therefore the extremly rude rant about 'stop fucking having kids' is overthe top and misplaced.
Bandit1
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sweetnpetite said:
After I posted today, I did some checking via a friend of mine who works at the CPS (Child Protection Services). Since the girl was placed in the custody of the courts, she has been to 3 different foster homes. Evidently she is too much for some of the families to handle.
I located and spoke to the childs grandmother who said that she wanted no part of the quote "Little n****r bastard" /quote.
The way things go in this state, when the mother gets caught, (she is too stupid to stay at large for long) she will be pled out to some lesser offence and will end up with custody of her child again in a year or so.
This is one of the times that I really hate not being able to do anything to help.
Yeah, I know that I can't help everyone, but I do try to help those that I can.
sweetnpetite
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Bandit1 said:
That totally sucks
I've seen kids taken away permenantly for much less. Why does it seem like they always get it backwards and return the wrong kids? Especially with sexual abuse- it seems that if you sexually abuse your own children or step children you are given more chances than people who are accused of abuse for spanking or disciplining there kids in the normal manner, or who've done essentially nothing but don't jump through the hoops just right. Above all other considerations- sexual abusers should get no second chances.
sweetnpetite
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BlackShanglan said:
Thank you BlackShanglan. I think most here know me well enough to know that I don't put people on ignore just because they disagree with me. Hell, it would be no fun without an argument now and then.
And to CQ- I realize you can never walk a mile in another's shoes. But pretty much all parents feel the same way about advice from non-parents on the subject of parenting. It's something you have to *do* to understand, it doesn't come from books or interaction with every child in the world. And most of us felt differently before we had kids too.
And thanks for pointing out that I am not imune to the bad behaviors I call others out for. I'd like to think that these are the *exception* to my behavior and not the rule. Considering my general reception on this site, I feel justified in that belief.
ANd now for a SouthPark moment....
For those who read the thread w/ the rant against the south- I would like to appoligize for my own insensitive jerk behavior. I had my reasons for my reaction and I of course have every right to be an ass too- but I don't want to be. There is no reason to continue trying to defend myself when the honorable thing to do is just appologize. This thread has given me some insight into how such thoughtless rants can make you feel even if they are not meant to be directed at you personally.
Kumbi-
-ya! You killed Kenny! You bastard!!
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Xelebes
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Lucifer_Carroll said:
That basically sums up why I asked whether or not I should be offended.
My parents kept married and are still married. Six children and rarely ever an income greater than $40,000. They never went on welfare or anything like that, though they did get a check everymonth from Child allowance - it was a government thing, what are you gonna do with that cheque? tear it up?)
While it may not be extreme, we did have a few nights where we didn't have food for supper as we struggled to pay rent. Yatta yatta yatta.
I think the main problem here is the people who get on these high pedestals and start preaching "stop breeding" is to essentially scorn those who are poor which is just a condemnable thing to do.
Quiet_Cool
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Xelebes said:
Here's the thing, Xelebes. You're parents tried. They were "parents" (an assumption, but it seems like you were at least partly trying to tell us that). The people that put Zack in this rant, AREN'T PARENTS. They're just people who have kids. Often people who use them, and whom we're supporting when they do it. I understand that under certain circumstances, people take things more personally than they were originally intended, but sometimes, we have to just look back go: "Doesn't sound like he meant me (or mine)." And head the other way.
I know I'm repetitive, but so is everyone else who's still posting here. Apparently, some things need repeated to be acknowledged.
Q_C
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Quiet_Cool
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SlickTony said:Thanks
Ya mean it wasn't political already?
Well, arguably, but not "election-type" political, if that makes any sense.
Q_C
