Submissive/Slave Haven
- Thread starter SweetGigi
- Start date
CutieMouse
Meticulously Flighty
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Posts
- 8,493
... mustworktoday... mustworktoday... mustworktoday... mustworktoday... squeeeee... mustworktoday... mustworktoday... mustworktoday... mustworktoday...
intothewoods
Truth seeker
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2007
- Posts
- 10,966
CutieMouse said:
Moi aussi.
Seriously.
intothewoods
Truth seeker
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2007
- Posts
- 10,966
Cutie's happy! Nice av.
Well, I'm plodding along, working. My frenzy has cooled considerably. Maybe if you tell yourself, self, here's what's really going on...enough times, you get it eventually.
Just throwing that out there.
This may be the first time in my life that I have no idea what will happen next. Cool.
Well, I'm plodding along, working. My frenzy has cooled considerably. Maybe if you tell yourself, self, here's what's really going on...enough times, you get it eventually.
Just throwing that out there.
This may be the first time in my life that I have no idea what will happen next. Cool.
CutieMouse
Meticulously Flighty
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Posts
- 8,493
intothewoods said:
That is the stupid grin that shows up on my face every time I hear a (cute, sexy, drawling French Canadian) voice in my head saying "baaaaaaby..." which keeps distracting me and preventing me from getting any real work done. Damnit.
SweetGigi
I am the exception
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Posts
- 1,805
Ok so I know we have some 'newbies' here that are really not 'sure' what too look for in a PYL. Now granted, even with all my experience, I feel like I am back at square one within the lifestyle and consider myself as such too. I am RE-LEARNING everything there is to know about being a sub and what to look for in a true DOM. With that being said- I am going to post an article here to help those who are new to this and need some insight on how to protect yourself. I IMPLORE you to read it. Next I will post an insightful article about the differences in the need to serve vs. the need to be dominated. Then lastly I will post an article on Pre- D/s behavior. These articles are meant to be used as TOOLS. Arm yourselves and use your minds to be powerful. You are a sub- that does not mean you are weak or weak-minded. The more educated you are, the better off you will be and the more likely you will find what you want. I know its a lot of reading- but as you will read, its your ass on the line so why not invest some time in education?
The Acid Test
This article is one of the best I've ever seen about the REALITIES
of finding a Dominant -- especially one in the online world.
It doesn't mean that they aren't "out there" but they truly are few
and far between, with a whole lot of flotsam in the mix.
Please... be careful and use that marvelous tool that resides within... your mind.
The term 'Acid Test' is an old prospecting term. A powerful acid can
dissolve most base metals in a matter of minutes.
Gold however, will stand up to most acids. The 'Acid Test' was an easy way
for people to make sure they had a real nugget of gold and not a lump of the 'fool's' variety.
In the same way, these tests are meant to be quick ways to identify fake
Doms. Passing all these tests is no guarantee either.
There is no replacement for getting to know your prospective
partner as well as possible
"BEFORE YOU EVEN MEET IN PERSON."
Most of these tests are designed for a submissive female trying to sort
through men claiming to be Doms online. They are largely based on the many questions I get asked by my female friends still searching for a Dominant partner. Some of them can probably be used by male subs as well, but for the most part, these tests are best for ferreting out male fakes.
Vanilla males are usually after 'easy sex' and this motive makes them easier to identify than a lot of the fake Doms out there.
Step One: Do the Math
Various estimates and surveys have placed the ratio of true (i.e., natural)
male sexual Dominants to female sexual submissives at about one to ten.
However, a quick count in any given D/s oriented chat room would lead
you to believe that male Doms outnumber the subs at about two to one.
Now if there is actually only one male Dom for every ten female subs,
that means that 19 out of the 20 "Doms" you see online
"HAVE TO BE FAKES."
Keep this in mind. there is a 95% chance that any man you talk to online
claiming to be a Dom is no such thing. This leads us to our first rule, a rule
that all statisticians and scientists already know by heart:
"When in doubt, throw it out!"
Your search for a suitable Dominant partner (especially if you are seeking a
serious long term relationship as well) could easily take years. That's hardly surprising, most people spend years looking for that special lover, be they 'vanilla' or otherwise. Don't be disheartened by all these drastic ratios.
BUT DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME either. If any of the prospects you are chatting with online makes you feel uncomfortable for any reason, drop him.
Don't give him 'three strikes' or 'extra chances to win.' Block out his screen-name and move on. There was only a one in twenty chance he was legitimate anyway. Trust your instincts!
Step Two: Know Your Enemy
We call them Snerts. We call them HNG's (Horny Net Geeks). We call them Wannabes. We call them Control Freaks.
Sometimes, tragically, we even find some that can only be called rapists
and predators. They are all your ENEMY. Don't bother thinking they are anything less. Even a more or less well meaning Snert can land you in a hospital.
Sexual Dominance and submission is not for dilettantes or amateurs: Not,
now, and never! Even if he turns out to be a more or less nice guy,
if he's not a Dom, he's not going to give you what you really need.
He will likely give you many things you don't (like medical bills and
other assorted headaches).
" Snerts"
Snerts are basically looking for easy sex.
They are counting on the (highly inaccurate) assumption that sexual submissives are simply 'easy lays.' Nothing could be farther from the truth, but that doesn't deter them at all.
They are typically middle aged to somewhat older men.
They are often married.
They are usually trying to bolster their flagging vanilla sex lives with some casual screwing around.
They target submissives because they think that they won't make demands on there sexual prowess (another bad assumption).
They can be easily spotted because they almost always demand or at least emphasize sexual intercourse being a part of their 'scenes.'
" The HNG (Horny Net Geek)"
HNG's are usually the most harmless (and yet often the most annoying)
of the enemy types. Most are teenagers and young men looking for some
quick cyber-sex or even phone-sex. They are usually pretty sophisticated
about there D/s jargon and the 'scenes' they describe to you can be pretty elaborate.
Geeks do their homework. They scour the porno sites for ideas, and
hang out in D/s chats for hours on end learning the 'lingo.' The are most
easily spotted because they want to move on to cyber-sex and phone sex very quickly.
They like to offer online collars, and spend hours on end in chat rooms 'playing' with their 'subbies.' Don't waste your time with them.
" Control Freaks "
The second most dangerous type of enemy is the Control Freak.
Control freaks are what most psychologists and therapists call 'controlling personalities.'
They are the type of person that wants to be in control of everything around them.
They want all their family and friends to behave exactly as they say.
They are extremely manipulative people. These men can be dangerous because many really have convinced themselves that they are Dominants as a justify their dysfunctional lives.
Many inexperienced submissives may find themselves 'naturally' attracted to these men because outwardly they seem so 'in command' of things all the time. The truly ironic (and sad) thing is, a controlling personality is actually the closest thing to the OPPOSITE of a sexual Dominant.
Controls Freaks can be spotted because they often talk about 'taking care of
you' and also 'knowing what's best for you'.
They almost always try to play on your emotions; especially guilt.
They also usually criticize and even resent the advice you get from other people.
They often talk about 24/7 D/s relationships without going into any details about what kind of actual scenes they play.
They are fond of telling you that they prefer the 'mental aspect' of Domination and submission.
They tend to be both demanding and argumentative. Nothing you do will ever be 'quite right.'
While all this may seem very repulsive and easy to avoid, be on your guard, the average control freak often seems very charming initially. Once they have their 'hooks' into you its very hard to get untangled.
Also being possessive and Jealous:
A REAL master is protective of what is his, but he has more confidence in
what he has being his, then to hide it away. Not talking about sharing sexually, but if all aspects of the BDSM and therefore his sub are for his eyes only, check the calendar, its going to be a long boring life.
" Rapists and Predators"
The last and most dangerous type of enemy is the rapist or predator.
These are the men most likely to damage or even end your life.
The truly frightening thing about these evil men it that there is NO
easy way to spot them.
Rapists can be anything from bums to bank mangers, and anyone from
family members to total strangers. One in four women has suffered an
attack from this vile creature, and one in seven men as well!
There motive is violence. The best defence is never make yourself too vulnerable.
To defend yourself from predators, learn all the in's and out's of setting up
a good
"!!!!!!!Safety Net!!!!!!!!"
Follow these procedures religiously. Most important of all
TAKE YOUR TIME getting to know your prospective play partners.
This is good advice in any case. If you know your partner well,
you're more likely to have a good time with him (because you
will feel more comfortable during that first Scene).
Predators are more likely to move on in search of easy prey, they do tend to
be impulsive. If a 'Dom' you have been talking too suddenly seems to loose
interest in you after a period of time, you may have just saved your own life.
Don't go chasing after anybody.
A true Dom doesn't need to play 'hard to get.'
Take the time to figure out what you want. It's often hard for newbie
subs to do this because sometimes they lack knowledge of what choices
are available to them.
!!!ARM YOURSELF WITH KNOWLEDGE!!!
There are many fine publications, books, and internet websites that cater to
sexual submissives, so start reading!
Learn about the different types of play and how they should be conducted.
Learn everything you can about how to set up a Safety Net.
Learn all the do's and don'ts of meeting others and playing safely.
Decide what your limits are and set them down on paper.
This may seem like a lot of homework to do in the name of fun, but also keep in mind that that it's your ASS that's (literally) on the line here.
"Know what a real Dom acts like. "
Remember, you are probably a sexual submissive because you ARE in control
the rest of the time. You are strong! Likely even ambitious as well.
You have a career, or goals, or a lifestyle that demands this high level
of energy and control. Giving away your control can be a beautiful respite
from everyday life. Your power and energy is something you only want to give to someone you trust, and in intimate situations at that. It's a very personal thing to you!
Well guess what, sexual Dominants are usually the compliment of this. Doms
are strong people too, we do tend to be intelligent. Doms are often highly
trained professionals or skilled craftsmen. However, we tend to avoid lifestyles and careers that demand they be in control all the time. Doms tend to be easygoing.
I have never in my life met, or even heard of, an uptight sexual Dominant.
We like being in control in INTIMATE situations.
It's a respite from the way we live OUR everyday lives. We are not
really the opposite of you, but we are the 'puzzle piece' that fits next to you snugly.
In another words, don't look for a Dom that's exactly like you. You won't find him.
Don't look for a Dom that wants to run your whole life; he doesn't exist.
ABOVE ALL, if you're prospective Dom seems like a generally 'nice guy'
you're likely on the right track! Take the time to get to know him.
Don't let the five control freaks on the other side of the chat room demand your attention.
A natural Dom isn't likely to make demands until its time to play.
Step 4: Memorize the Acid Tests!
When in doubt, throw it out! Don't waste your time with people that
make you feel uncomfortable. Even if the guy was a real Dom, if his
personality makes you feel uncomfortable ,he's not going to be fun to play
with.
"You'd better call me Sir!" is the mating call of a HNG or control freak. Real Doms don't have to ask for titles, we EARN them. Most real Doms will say things like "please, call me Mike..."
"I want you to take my collar before you play with me."
This is another common demand of fakes, most often made by control freaks.
They have to isolate you from other people and their advice, and sometimes a little ole "cyber-collar" is just the thing!
Cyber-collars are worth less other than the leather required to make one.
If you get an Instant Message that says something like "On your knees you
[slave, slut, bitch,whore, etc.]"
This is the mating call of the HNG. Use some common sense here. Why waste
your time with somebody that's not even polite?
There's a time and a place for these endearing terms, and it isn't online!
"I don't have to answer that question!" or "It's not proper etiquette for
you to ask a Master that." are examples of some the dangerous LIES that
control freaks and snerts use.
This is the Acid test I personally think is the most important!
A Dom had better be ready to at least TRY and answer every
question you have, and HONESTLY at that!
Its literally your ass that's on the line! Never forget this!
"Its my way or the highway!"
or words to that effect, are the mating cry of the common control freak.
Doms can have Limits too, but its your Limits that count FIRST.
Don't let any would-be 'Dom' tell you differently.
Don't let any of the wannabe subs tell you differently either.
Where Male Dom/fem sub play is concerned, it's
ALWAYS LADY'S CHOICE!
Don't bother with online collars. Don't make decisions about a
prospective partner based on his online play style. It's a very simple
test if you think about it: would a real life Dominant waste time on
cyber sex? Please take my word for it; the answer is NO. Forget it,
once you've done the real thing, cyber is just too damn dull.
Ask your prospect if he's ever made any mistakes during a scene. If he say's
'no,'run for your life! If he says, 'very rarely,' at least be suspicious.
Everyone makes mistakes, even if they are experienced players.
Sometimes submissives have Limits they don't even know about, and
even the most careful and skilled Dom in the world will trip over these occasionally. Remember, according to our good friends of the Christian faith, the last perfect guy to walk this planet got nailed to a tree for his trouble. So expect competence, but not miracles
"I'm a [bank president, captain of industry, TV producer, self-made
millionaire. . yadda yadda yadda.]" Wouldn't it be nice to meet a Dom that
was rich? Sure it would! But use some common sense too. How many captains of industry have hours to spend in an On-Line chat room?
Also, think about this personality profile; if this super successful,
always-in-control person is really into D/s, he's likely a submissive!
I have met a lot of female submissives that fit this ambitious
profile, but not one Dom yet!
"I'm 33 years old, and I've been a Master for 15 years."
Gimme a break! What are the odds? When you ask about a Doms level of
experience (and its a good idea to do so) remember to do the math as well.
18 year old boys don't care about the intricacies of D/s; they want to get laid.
Trust me on this one Ladies, I was an 18 year old boy once! I personally believe that people do become what they are (be it gay, straight, Dom or sub) very early in life, but it takes maturity and training to be a Master. What are the odds a person became a Master when they were still using Clearasil?
Ask for references! Especially if he claims to be 'very experienced.'
Talk to the references ON THE PHONE. Lots of HNG's have female
screen-names set p to act as 'references' for them! I notice that a
lot of newbies seem to have trouble with this concept. Which is
understandable since in the vanilla world its considered rude to talk
to a guy's ex-girlfriend. But in the D/s Scene its the opposite,
experienced players will accept and accommodate this kind of request gladly.
"I have three real life collared slaves right now, but you can't talk to
them." Okay, when you consider the ratio and all, this sounds possible. What makes this an acid test failed (and failed miserably at that) is the last part.
I have met couples (and even triples) that really were looking for an extra
person to add to the mix.
This is not uncommon at all in the Scene. But these couples were looking
TOGETHER. If a 'Dom' has anyone already collared to them, you probably ought to talk to her FIRST!
"I don't need safe words."
Well of course he doesn't! If he said this he's likely a snert and therefore
he's never really been in a scene! Of course he might be a predator too,
and then he wouldn't need safewords either. Need I say more?
"My slaves trust me to set their Limits for them."
If you hear a "Dom" say this it's most likely because these slaves only
exist in his mind. Or worse still, his 'slave' is simply the victim of spouse abuse. Even so called TPE (Total Power Exchange) and other sorts of 24/7 (i.e., full time) D/s relationships should involve some careful negotiation.
"I'm Married, my wife can't know about us"
If I have to explain this one too you, you've got problems. I have played
with many married submissives in my time, but ONLY with the express permission (and more often than not, participation) of their husbands. Safe D/s requires complete honesty.
You can't build a good Scene on lies. There are plenty of people that will
be willing to tell you differently; but please note, they will all turn out to be
adulterers (and hence, liars) themselves.
Insert your own Acid Test here. You will learn much from your mistakes and
missteps. If you form an online contact with a "Dom" that falls through, analyze WHY it fell through. Don't make the same mistakes twice if you can help it.
Finding some female submissives to be buddies with you on your quest is a
very good idea. Especially if they are experienced players; they can give you
unique perspectives, emotional support, and even references to legitimate Doms to play with. They can also, most importantly, provide a" Safety Net" for you during those first meetings with the men you meet.
The benefits of teaming up with other women in your search should be
obvious! However, be just as cautious about what you hear from other women online as well. If you are so inclined to search for a Domme for instance, the Acid tests should apply just as well.
Be very cautious about the women you meet online that claim to be submissives as well.
There are a great number of female HNG's who live there D/s lifestyle in the vacuum of cyber-space. Their advice and experiences are not only useless in the real world, they can be dangerous. There is another class of "female enemy" is even more tragic and dangerous
"The Victim."
The Victim is just that; a victim of physical and or mental abuse that uses
D/s as an excuse to continue denying the reality of her tragic situation. These people are disturbingly common as well. They are dangerous to you too! These women are not just full of very dangerous advice, but they are usually very vehement about telling you that their lifestyle is the only "real D/s."
They can fill your head full of doubts faster than one of the male enemy types. Spare little sympathy, tell them to get help, and stay the heck away from them (in exactly that order). It may seem mercenary, but it is in fact the right thing to do. This is my training as a CASA (Citizens Against Spouse Abuse) volunteer talking. An abuse victim can only save herself, and then only when she is ready to do so. If you let her vent her frustrations and fears on you, she will then go back to her familiar little hell. Leaving you emotionally drained and likely scared too.
Your quest for safe play partners is going to be tough enough as it is.
Avoid Victims completely if you can, and if you can't, urge them to get help.
It's not your job to save the world, keeping yourself safe and happy is enough work.
The Acid Test
This article is one of the best I've ever seen about the REALITIES
of finding a Dominant -- especially one in the online world.
It doesn't mean that they aren't "out there" but they truly are few
and far between, with a whole lot of flotsam in the mix.
Please... be careful and use that marvelous tool that resides within... your mind.
The term 'Acid Test' is an old prospecting term. A powerful acid can
dissolve most base metals in a matter of minutes.
Gold however, will stand up to most acids. The 'Acid Test' was an easy way
for people to make sure they had a real nugget of gold and not a lump of the 'fool's' variety.
In the same way, these tests are meant to be quick ways to identify fake
Doms. Passing all these tests is no guarantee either.
There is no replacement for getting to know your prospective
partner as well as possible
"BEFORE YOU EVEN MEET IN PERSON."
Most of these tests are designed for a submissive female trying to sort
through men claiming to be Doms online. They are largely based on the many questions I get asked by my female friends still searching for a Dominant partner. Some of them can probably be used by male subs as well, but for the most part, these tests are best for ferreting out male fakes.
Vanilla males are usually after 'easy sex' and this motive makes them easier to identify than a lot of the fake Doms out there.
Step One: Do the Math
Various estimates and surveys have placed the ratio of true (i.e., natural)
male sexual Dominants to female sexual submissives at about one to ten.
However, a quick count in any given D/s oriented chat room would lead
you to believe that male Doms outnumber the subs at about two to one.
Now if there is actually only one male Dom for every ten female subs,
that means that 19 out of the 20 "Doms" you see online
"HAVE TO BE FAKES."
Keep this in mind. there is a 95% chance that any man you talk to online
claiming to be a Dom is no such thing. This leads us to our first rule, a rule
that all statisticians and scientists already know by heart:
"When in doubt, throw it out!"
Your search for a suitable Dominant partner (especially if you are seeking a
serious long term relationship as well) could easily take years. That's hardly surprising, most people spend years looking for that special lover, be they 'vanilla' or otherwise. Don't be disheartened by all these drastic ratios.
BUT DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME either. If any of the prospects you are chatting with online makes you feel uncomfortable for any reason, drop him.
Don't give him 'three strikes' or 'extra chances to win.' Block out his screen-name and move on. There was only a one in twenty chance he was legitimate anyway. Trust your instincts!
Step Two: Know Your Enemy
We call them Snerts. We call them HNG's (Horny Net Geeks). We call them Wannabes. We call them Control Freaks.
Sometimes, tragically, we even find some that can only be called rapists
and predators. They are all your ENEMY. Don't bother thinking they are anything less. Even a more or less well meaning Snert can land you in a hospital.
Sexual Dominance and submission is not for dilettantes or amateurs: Not,
now, and never! Even if he turns out to be a more or less nice guy,
if he's not a Dom, he's not going to give you what you really need.
He will likely give you many things you don't (like medical bills and
other assorted headaches).
" Snerts"
Snerts are basically looking for easy sex.
They are counting on the (highly inaccurate) assumption that sexual submissives are simply 'easy lays.' Nothing could be farther from the truth, but that doesn't deter them at all.
They are typically middle aged to somewhat older men.
They are often married.
They are usually trying to bolster their flagging vanilla sex lives with some casual screwing around.
They target submissives because they think that they won't make demands on there sexual prowess (another bad assumption).
They can be easily spotted because they almost always demand or at least emphasize sexual intercourse being a part of their 'scenes.'
" The HNG (Horny Net Geek)"
HNG's are usually the most harmless (and yet often the most annoying)
of the enemy types. Most are teenagers and young men looking for some
quick cyber-sex or even phone-sex. They are usually pretty sophisticated
about there D/s jargon and the 'scenes' they describe to you can be pretty elaborate.
Geeks do their homework. They scour the porno sites for ideas, and
hang out in D/s chats for hours on end learning the 'lingo.' The are most
easily spotted because they want to move on to cyber-sex and phone sex very quickly.
They like to offer online collars, and spend hours on end in chat rooms 'playing' with their 'subbies.' Don't waste your time with them.
" Control Freaks "
The second most dangerous type of enemy is the Control Freak.
Control freaks are what most psychologists and therapists call 'controlling personalities.'
They are the type of person that wants to be in control of everything around them.
They want all their family and friends to behave exactly as they say.
They are extremely manipulative people. These men can be dangerous because many really have convinced themselves that they are Dominants as a justify their dysfunctional lives.
Many inexperienced submissives may find themselves 'naturally' attracted to these men because outwardly they seem so 'in command' of things all the time. The truly ironic (and sad) thing is, a controlling personality is actually the closest thing to the OPPOSITE of a sexual Dominant.
Controls Freaks can be spotted because they often talk about 'taking care of
you' and also 'knowing what's best for you'.
They almost always try to play on your emotions; especially guilt.
They also usually criticize and even resent the advice you get from other people.
They often talk about 24/7 D/s relationships without going into any details about what kind of actual scenes they play.
They are fond of telling you that they prefer the 'mental aspect' of Domination and submission.
They tend to be both demanding and argumentative. Nothing you do will ever be 'quite right.'
While all this may seem very repulsive and easy to avoid, be on your guard, the average control freak often seems very charming initially. Once they have their 'hooks' into you its very hard to get untangled.
Also being possessive and Jealous:
A REAL master is protective of what is his, but he has more confidence in
what he has being his, then to hide it away. Not talking about sharing sexually, but if all aspects of the BDSM and therefore his sub are for his eyes only, check the calendar, its going to be a long boring life.
" Rapists and Predators"
The last and most dangerous type of enemy is the rapist or predator.
These are the men most likely to damage or even end your life.
The truly frightening thing about these evil men it that there is NO
easy way to spot them.
Rapists can be anything from bums to bank mangers, and anyone from
family members to total strangers. One in four women has suffered an
attack from this vile creature, and one in seven men as well!
There motive is violence. The best defence is never make yourself too vulnerable.
To defend yourself from predators, learn all the in's and out's of setting up
a good
"!!!!!!!Safety Net!!!!!!!!"
Follow these procedures religiously. Most important of all
TAKE YOUR TIME getting to know your prospective play partners.
This is good advice in any case. If you know your partner well,
you're more likely to have a good time with him (because you
will feel more comfortable during that first Scene).
Predators are more likely to move on in search of easy prey, they do tend to
be impulsive. If a 'Dom' you have been talking too suddenly seems to loose
interest in you after a period of time, you may have just saved your own life.
Don't go chasing after anybody.
A true Dom doesn't need to play 'hard to get.'
Take the time to figure out what you want. It's often hard for newbie
subs to do this because sometimes they lack knowledge of what choices
are available to them.
!!!ARM YOURSELF WITH KNOWLEDGE!!!
There are many fine publications, books, and internet websites that cater to
sexual submissives, so start reading!
Learn about the different types of play and how they should be conducted.
Learn everything you can about how to set up a Safety Net.
Learn all the do's and don'ts of meeting others and playing safely.
Decide what your limits are and set them down on paper.
This may seem like a lot of homework to do in the name of fun, but also keep in mind that that it's your ASS that's (literally) on the line here.
"Know what a real Dom acts like. "
Remember, you are probably a sexual submissive because you ARE in control
the rest of the time. You are strong! Likely even ambitious as well.
You have a career, or goals, or a lifestyle that demands this high level
of energy and control. Giving away your control can be a beautiful respite
from everyday life. Your power and energy is something you only want to give to someone you trust, and in intimate situations at that. It's a very personal thing to you!
Well guess what, sexual Dominants are usually the compliment of this. Doms
are strong people too, we do tend to be intelligent. Doms are often highly
trained professionals or skilled craftsmen. However, we tend to avoid lifestyles and careers that demand they be in control all the time. Doms tend to be easygoing.
I have never in my life met, or even heard of, an uptight sexual Dominant.
We like being in control in INTIMATE situations.
It's a respite from the way we live OUR everyday lives. We are not
really the opposite of you, but we are the 'puzzle piece' that fits next to you snugly.
In another words, don't look for a Dom that's exactly like you. You won't find him.
Don't look for a Dom that wants to run your whole life; he doesn't exist.
ABOVE ALL, if you're prospective Dom seems like a generally 'nice guy'
you're likely on the right track! Take the time to get to know him.
Don't let the five control freaks on the other side of the chat room demand your attention.
A natural Dom isn't likely to make demands until its time to play.
Step 4: Memorize the Acid Tests!
When in doubt, throw it out! Don't waste your time with people that
make you feel uncomfortable. Even if the guy was a real Dom, if his
personality makes you feel uncomfortable ,he's not going to be fun to play
with.
"You'd better call me Sir!" is the mating call of a HNG or control freak. Real Doms don't have to ask for titles, we EARN them. Most real Doms will say things like "please, call me Mike..."
"I want you to take my collar before you play with me."
This is another common demand of fakes, most often made by control freaks.
They have to isolate you from other people and their advice, and sometimes a little ole "cyber-collar" is just the thing!
Cyber-collars are worth less other than the leather required to make one.
If you get an Instant Message that says something like "On your knees you
[slave, slut, bitch,whore, etc.]"
This is the mating call of the HNG. Use some common sense here. Why waste
your time with somebody that's not even polite?
There's a time and a place for these endearing terms, and it isn't online!
"I don't have to answer that question!" or "It's not proper etiquette for
you to ask a Master that." are examples of some the dangerous LIES that
control freaks and snerts use.
This is the Acid test I personally think is the most important!
A Dom had better be ready to at least TRY and answer every
question you have, and HONESTLY at that!
Its literally your ass that's on the line! Never forget this!
"Its my way or the highway!"
or words to that effect, are the mating cry of the common control freak.
Doms can have Limits too, but its your Limits that count FIRST.
Don't let any would-be 'Dom' tell you differently.
Don't let any of the wannabe subs tell you differently either.
Where Male Dom/fem sub play is concerned, it's
ALWAYS LADY'S CHOICE!
Don't bother with online collars. Don't make decisions about a
prospective partner based on his online play style. It's a very simple
test if you think about it: would a real life Dominant waste time on
cyber sex? Please take my word for it; the answer is NO. Forget it,
once you've done the real thing, cyber is just too damn dull.
Ask your prospect if he's ever made any mistakes during a scene. If he say's
'no,'run for your life! If he says, 'very rarely,' at least be suspicious.
Everyone makes mistakes, even if they are experienced players.
Sometimes submissives have Limits they don't even know about, and
even the most careful and skilled Dom in the world will trip over these occasionally. Remember, according to our good friends of the Christian faith, the last perfect guy to walk this planet got nailed to a tree for his trouble. So expect competence, but not miracles
"I'm a [bank president, captain of industry, TV producer, self-made
millionaire. . yadda yadda yadda.]" Wouldn't it be nice to meet a Dom that
was rich? Sure it would! But use some common sense too. How many captains of industry have hours to spend in an On-Line chat room?
Also, think about this personality profile; if this super successful,
always-in-control person is really into D/s, he's likely a submissive!
I have met a lot of female submissives that fit this ambitious
profile, but not one Dom yet!
"I'm 33 years old, and I've been a Master for 15 years."
Gimme a break! What are the odds? When you ask about a Doms level of
experience (and its a good idea to do so) remember to do the math as well.
18 year old boys don't care about the intricacies of D/s; they want to get laid.
Trust me on this one Ladies, I was an 18 year old boy once! I personally believe that people do become what they are (be it gay, straight, Dom or sub) very early in life, but it takes maturity and training to be a Master. What are the odds a person became a Master when they were still using Clearasil?
Ask for references! Especially if he claims to be 'very experienced.'
Talk to the references ON THE PHONE. Lots of HNG's have female
screen-names set p to act as 'references' for them! I notice that a
lot of newbies seem to have trouble with this concept. Which is
understandable since in the vanilla world its considered rude to talk
to a guy's ex-girlfriend. But in the D/s Scene its the opposite,
experienced players will accept and accommodate this kind of request gladly.
"I have three real life collared slaves right now, but you can't talk to
them." Okay, when you consider the ratio and all, this sounds possible. What makes this an acid test failed (and failed miserably at that) is the last part.
I have met couples (and even triples) that really were looking for an extra
person to add to the mix.
This is not uncommon at all in the Scene. But these couples were looking
TOGETHER. If a 'Dom' has anyone already collared to them, you probably ought to talk to her FIRST!
"I don't need safe words."
Well of course he doesn't! If he said this he's likely a snert and therefore
he's never really been in a scene! Of course he might be a predator too,
and then he wouldn't need safewords either. Need I say more?
"My slaves trust me to set their Limits for them."
If you hear a "Dom" say this it's most likely because these slaves only
exist in his mind. Or worse still, his 'slave' is simply the victim of spouse abuse. Even so called TPE (Total Power Exchange) and other sorts of 24/7 (i.e., full time) D/s relationships should involve some careful negotiation.
"I'm Married, my wife can't know about us"
If I have to explain this one too you, you've got problems. I have played
with many married submissives in my time, but ONLY with the express permission (and more often than not, participation) of their husbands. Safe D/s requires complete honesty.
You can't build a good Scene on lies. There are plenty of people that will
be willing to tell you differently; but please note, they will all turn out to be
adulterers (and hence, liars) themselves.
Insert your own Acid Test here. You will learn much from your mistakes and
missteps. If you form an online contact with a "Dom" that falls through, analyze WHY it fell through. Don't make the same mistakes twice if you can help it.
Finding some female submissives to be buddies with you on your quest is a
very good idea. Especially if they are experienced players; they can give you
unique perspectives, emotional support, and even references to legitimate Doms to play with. They can also, most importantly, provide a" Safety Net" for you during those first meetings with the men you meet.
The benefits of teaming up with other women in your search should be
obvious! However, be just as cautious about what you hear from other women online as well. If you are so inclined to search for a Domme for instance, the Acid tests should apply just as well.
Be very cautious about the women you meet online that claim to be submissives as well.
There are a great number of female HNG's who live there D/s lifestyle in the vacuum of cyber-space. Their advice and experiences are not only useless in the real world, they can be dangerous. There is another class of "female enemy" is even more tragic and dangerous
"The Victim."
The Victim is just that; a victim of physical and or mental abuse that uses
D/s as an excuse to continue denying the reality of her tragic situation. These people are disturbingly common as well. They are dangerous to you too! These women are not just full of very dangerous advice, but they are usually very vehement about telling you that their lifestyle is the only "real D/s."
They can fill your head full of doubts faster than one of the male enemy types. Spare little sympathy, tell them to get help, and stay the heck away from them (in exactly that order). It may seem mercenary, but it is in fact the right thing to do. This is my training as a CASA (Citizens Against Spouse Abuse) volunteer talking. An abuse victim can only save herself, and then only when she is ready to do so. If you let her vent her frustrations and fears on you, she will then go back to her familiar little hell. Leaving you emotionally drained and likely scared too.
Your quest for safe play partners is going to be tough enough as it is.
Avoid Victims completely if you can, and if you can't, urge them to get help.
It's not your job to save the world, keeping yourself safe and happy is enough work.
SweetGigi
I am the exception
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Posts
- 1,805
A New Look at Submission
by BaadMaster
We are usually skeptical about any observation that promises a new angle on any subject that has been done to death, such as submission. There is the possibility that the following theory is another exercise in semantics, like slave vs. sub. Nonetheless, we think this article will offer some unique concepts regarding submission that will inspire debate and discussion about the way both Dom/mes and subs look at submission.
What we put forward is that there is a fundamental difference between "the need to serve" and "the need to be dominated." On the surface, they both look like linguistic variations of each other. The net result of "serving" and "being dominated" can appear, on the surface, to be identical. After all, the submissive can be seen serving the Dominant breakfast in bed, or crawling in leash and collar, in both instances. Yet, on deeper analysis, there seems to be a wide gap between the two.
The submissive who "needs to serve" typically gets fulfillment in pleasing his/her Dom/me. The mindset here is the fundamental need to satisfy the Dominant - whether for a night or for a lifetime. This "need to serve," by its very definition, includes the pleasing of another besides oneself.
On the other hand, the "need to be dominated" appears to be a desire that has no other component other than a self-serving one. It is not submission for the gratification of another; it is a clear need to be brought to one's knees, so to speak, because that is what one craves. It seems to be a much more egocentric or selfish "submission," if you can call it submission at all. Nor is it the same as being a "bottom," as this usually refers just to play. The "need to be dominated" is a far more encompassing kink than bottoming. It is a distinct need, just as the "need to serve" is.
If you think we are just playing word games, all you have to do is look at the poly-Dom/me dilemma. When a Dom announces he wants to take another slave, the submissive who "needs to serve" often has great conflicts aroused within her. While she needs to please her Dom/me, she often wants to be the only slave. Thus, she is stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. She desires to serve and please the Dominant; yet, she wants to be the only slave - a need that will displease the Dominant and thus conflict with her need to serve.
The "need to be dominated" can often explain the so-called "bratty sub" syndrome. Looking at it this way, we can see that insolence, struggling, or Dom-baiting is just a way of challenging the Dom/me to dominate. It is not just a case of submitting; she requires the Dominant take an active dominant stance to make her submit. If a "bratty sub" lacks the "need to serve," this will likely produce a continual clash. If this is your cup of tea, go for it. But if you are a Dom/me and are looking for a slave, don't expect someone with only the "need to be dominated" to fit the bill - unless you want a constant battle.
The sub who "needs to serve" can be trained much more easily, often with scant need for punishment. As this type needs to serve and submit, reprimand is rarely called for. On the other hand, if you are a Dom/me and are dealing with one who "needs to be dominated," you might find that punishment - a very dominant act - is not only required, it is required often. After all, if you need to be dominated, what better way to scratch that itch than to be punished?
Once you recognize the differences between these two types, you can more easily find the person you are searching for. If you are looking for a "slave" (and let's not rehash sub vs. slave), then seek a partner who "needs to serve." If you are looking for a bottom who gets excited when the Dominant dominates, or one who craves punishment, then look for a partner who simply likes to be dominated. Similarly, if the submissive grasps some of these concepts, he/she can more easily find the right Dominant.
The distinctions we have discussed here might not always be clear; submission often exists in the gray area. After all, when dealing with interpersonal relationships, things are rarely black and white. But, examining submission from this angle might give you a new perspective. Often, a new perspective is just what you need in this lifestyle - or any lifestyle!
by BaadMaster
We are usually skeptical about any observation that promises a new angle on any subject that has been done to death, such as submission. There is the possibility that the following theory is another exercise in semantics, like slave vs. sub. Nonetheless, we think this article will offer some unique concepts regarding submission that will inspire debate and discussion about the way both Dom/mes and subs look at submission.
What we put forward is that there is a fundamental difference between "the need to serve" and "the need to be dominated." On the surface, they both look like linguistic variations of each other. The net result of "serving" and "being dominated" can appear, on the surface, to be identical. After all, the submissive can be seen serving the Dominant breakfast in bed, or crawling in leash and collar, in both instances. Yet, on deeper analysis, there seems to be a wide gap between the two.
The submissive who "needs to serve" typically gets fulfillment in pleasing his/her Dom/me. The mindset here is the fundamental need to satisfy the Dominant - whether for a night or for a lifetime. This "need to serve," by its very definition, includes the pleasing of another besides oneself.
On the other hand, the "need to be dominated" appears to be a desire that has no other component other than a self-serving one. It is not submission for the gratification of another; it is a clear need to be brought to one's knees, so to speak, because that is what one craves. It seems to be a much more egocentric or selfish "submission," if you can call it submission at all. Nor is it the same as being a "bottom," as this usually refers just to play. The "need to be dominated" is a far more encompassing kink than bottoming. It is a distinct need, just as the "need to serve" is.
If you think we are just playing word games, all you have to do is look at the poly-Dom/me dilemma. When a Dom announces he wants to take another slave, the submissive who "needs to serve" often has great conflicts aroused within her. While she needs to please her Dom/me, she often wants to be the only slave. Thus, she is stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place. She desires to serve and please the Dominant; yet, she wants to be the only slave - a need that will displease the Dominant and thus conflict with her need to serve.
The "need to be dominated" can often explain the so-called "bratty sub" syndrome. Looking at it this way, we can see that insolence, struggling, or Dom-baiting is just a way of challenging the Dom/me to dominate. It is not just a case of submitting; she requires the Dominant take an active dominant stance to make her submit. If a "bratty sub" lacks the "need to serve," this will likely produce a continual clash. If this is your cup of tea, go for it. But if you are a Dom/me and are looking for a slave, don't expect someone with only the "need to be dominated" to fit the bill - unless you want a constant battle.
The sub who "needs to serve" can be trained much more easily, often with scant need for punishment. As this type needs to serve and submit, reprimand is rarely called for. On the other hand, if you are a Dom/me and are dealing with one who "needs to be dominated," you might find that punishment - a very dominant act - is not only required, it is required often. After all, if you need to be dominated, what better way to scratch that itch than to be punished?
Once you recognize the differences between these two types, you can more easily find the person you are searching for. If you are looking for a "slave" (and let's not rehash sub vs. slave), then seek a partner who "needs to serve." If you are looking for a bottom who gets excited when the Dominant dominates, or one who craves punishment, then look for a partner who simply likes to be dominated. Similarly, if the submissive grasps some of these concepts, he/she can more easily find the right Dominant.
The distinctions we have discussed here might not always be clear; submission often exists in the gray area. After all, when dealing with interpersonal relationships, things are rarely black and white. But, examining submission from this angle might give you a new perspective. Often, a new perspective is just what you need in this lifestyle - or any lifestyle!
SweetGigi
I am the exception
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2007
- Posts
- 1,805
Pre-D/s
by BaadMaster
This article is primarily intended for new submissives; it was
researched by interviewing many subs on this topic. One of the most
confusing questions facing fresh subs is how to behave when a Dom/me
first approaches them. I have found that many subs, especially female
subs, feel pressured to behave in a "submissive" manner when they
initially meet a Dom/me. In reality, there should be no such sense of
pressure or obligation. There is no set standard for behavior; you can
act any way that makes you feel comfortable. That includes not acting
submissive to any Dom/me who e-mails you, says hello at a social or
IM's you.
The key here is that, until you actually negotiate a D/s interaction,
no matter how rudimentary, you are not anyone's submissive. You are a
free agent. Until he/she is your Dom/me, or you intend to consider
him/her becoming your Dom/me or consensually elect to be submissive to
him/her, all bets are off. (Enough of the he/she, Dom/me stuff
already!) As yet, there has been no negotiated power imbalance; you
are still equals. Until there is a consensual power exchange, you do
not owe anybody anything - other than to be polite and honest. If you
wish to address a potential Dom as "Sir," or a potential Domme as
"Ma'am," that is your prerogative; if you don't want to, you don't
have to. There should be no anticipation - and this is meant for the
Tops - that a sub should be submissive to you from the moment you
meet. (Of course, if there is "Dom at first sight," this is fine. But
there should be no expectation of this, from either party. It is
purely discretionary.)
In this "pre-D/s" stage, you have the right to interview him as much
as he has the right to question you. Any inquiries you ask him are
permissible; if he chooses not to answer or be evasive, you can tell
him "c ya." And vice-versa. Until such time as you have a power
exchange dynamic of some sort, you should show him respect -- not
because he is a Dom, but because he is a person you are interested in.
At this point, you really don't owe him anything other than
that...whether he calls himself Master, Sir, Lord or Grand Poobah.
Of course, at social events - like a munch or a BDSM party - many subs
do address strangers as "Sir." I personally like this custom. But
"Sir," in this case, is a social tradition and should not imply any
"dominance" or "submissiveness" on either person's part. The Dom
should understand this; he should not misinterpret this sign of
respect as a sign of obedience. In these cases, standard rules of
human interaction trump any "honorifics." The Dom should look for
secondary cues as to whether the sub in question is interested in him.
A smile, body language, etc. Communication - just like in the vanilla
world - is what must be pursued at this point.
There is a story that I heard that sums up this whole situation
perfectly. After a Dom was addressed as "Sir" by a submissive he met
at a social, he asked her to leave the event with him. She declined.
He asked her, "But, aren't you submissive?" She replied, "Yes, I am
submissive. But, I am not your submissive." That says it all!
by BaadMaster
This article is primarily intended for new submissives; it was
researched by interviewing many subs on this topic. One of the most
confusing questions facing fresh subs is how to behave when a Dom/me
first approaches them. I have found that many subs, especially female
subs, feel pressured to behave in a "submissive" manner when they
initially meet a Dom/me. In reality, there should be no such sense of
pressure or obligation. There is no set standard for behavior; you can
act any way that makes you feel comfortable. That includes not acting
submissive to any Dom/me who e-mails you, says hello at a social or
IM's you.
The key here is that, until you actually negotiate a D/s interaction,
no matter how rudimentary, you are not anyone's submissive. You are a
free agent. Until he/she is your Dom/me, or you intend to consider
him/her becoming your Dom/me or consensually elect to be submissive to
him/her, all bets are off. (Enough of the he/she, Dom/me stuff
already!) As yet, there has been no negotiated power imbalance; you
are still equals. Until there is a consensual power exchange, you do
not owe anybody anything - other than to be polite and honest. If you
wish to address a potential Dom as "Sir," or a potential Domme as
"Ma'am," that is your prerogative; if you don't want to, you don't
have to. There should be no anticipation - and this is meant for the
Tops - that a sub should be submissive to you from the moment you
meet. (Of course, if there is "Dom at first sight," this is fine. But
there should be no expectation of this, from either party. It is
purely discretionary.)
In this "pre-D/s" stage, you have the right to interview him as much
as he has the right to question you. Any inquiries you ask him are
permissible; if he chooses not to answer or be evasive, you can tell
him "c ya." And vice-versa. Until such time as you have a power
exchange dynamic of some sort, you should show him respect -- not
because he is a Dom, but because he is a person you are interested in.
At this point, you really don't owe him anything other than
that...whether he calls himself Master, Sir, Lord or Grand Poobah.
Of course, at social events - like a munch or a BDSM party - many subs
do address strangers as "Sir." I personally like this custom. But
"Sir," in this case, is a social tradition and should not imply any
"dominance" or "submissiveness" on either person's part. The Dom
should understand this; he should not misinterpret this sign of
respect as a sign of obedience. In these cases, standard rules of
human interaction trump any "honorifics." The Dom should look for
secondary cues as to whether the sub in question is interested in him.
A smile, body language, etc. Communication - just like in the vanilla
world - is what must be pursued at this point.
There is a story that I heard that sums up this whole situation
perfectly. After a Dom was addressed as "Sir" by a submissive he met
at a social, he asked her to leave the event with him. She declined.
He asked her, "But, aren't you submissive?" She replied, "Yes, I am
submissive. But, I am not your submissive." That says it all!
sexycaz22
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
- Posts
- 3,307
SweetGigi, I just wanted to say thank you for putting the articles up in this thread, there were some really useful information and certainly has given me something to think about when exploring my submissive side and looking for a Dom.
So thank YOU! *hugz*
Caz
So thank YOU! *hugz*
Caz
coyone
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2007
- Posts
- 353
ohhh thank you SO very much for posting all this WONDERFUL advice! I've read and will re-read more than a handful of times.... scribblin notes as I go <laughs> and realizing the more I read, the more questions I find myself having to ask.
I guess that is what learning is ... get a few answered... go back read more and come up with more questions LOL
I have not yet begun my search for a Dom... and am in no hurry to rush into anything either
Thanks again SweetGigi!!
I guess that is what learning is ... get a few answered... go back read more and come up with more questions LOL
I have not yet begun my search for a Dom... and am in no hurry to rush into anything either
Thanks again SweetGigi!!
CutieMouse
Meticulously Flighty
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Posts
- 8,493
Another thing is to pay attention to how a man deals with even tentative rejection... ONE guy out of the 75+ that I've rejected, took it gracefully enough for me to keep him in mind. Several threw tantrums like they were 4 years old, a few showed up several days later whining about how I was ignoring them...
Also, J (who I'm going to see in 2 weeks) is fully supportive of my keeping the ad up at collarme, as he feels if we're meant to be it'll happen; we even talk over prospective guys who answered the ad each day, and he gives me as unbiased an opinion (thinking as a guy) as possible. IMO, guys who are serious, and know they have a lot to offer, are rarely intimidated by competition.
Also, J (who I'm going to see in 2 weeks) is fully supportive of my keeping the ad up at collarme, as he feels if we're meant to be it'll happen; we even talk over prospective guys who answered the ad each day, and he gives me as unbiased an opinion (thinking as a guy) as possible. IMO, guys who are serious, and know they have a lot to offer, are rarely intimidated by competition.
Last edited:
callinectes
yep
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Posts
- 1,286
coyone said:
What she said. Very wise and true indeed.
CutieMouse
Meticulously Flighty
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Posts
- 8,493
callinectes said:
Even with the typo.
littleone77
Hiatus
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Posts
- 7,111
ROFL
This thread has quickly become a favorite of mine to read at the end of the day..if I can make it that long.
Going along with the rejection topic..El_C is a perfect example of that. I told him no way back in October, several times through out the following months I told him 'sorry'. Thankfully he didn't listen and decided that friendship with me was better than nothing His perservance paid off though. Obviously~
This thread has quickly become a favorite of mine to read at the end of the day..if I can make it that long.
Going along with the rejection topic..El_C is a perfect example of that. I told him no way back in October, several times through out the following months I told him 'sorry'. Thankfully he didn't listen and decided that friendship with me was better than nothing
His perservance paid off though. Obviously~CutieMouse
Meticulously Flighty
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Posts
- 8,493
coyone said:
The irrational and distracted state I am currently experiencing, is not my fault. It's his fault. (He says the same thing regarding me, so I figure it's fair game to pass the buck on this topic.
) I'll go back to being overly organized, attentive to detail, and all that jazz at some point... eventually... but for the next two weeks I suspect I'm gonna be intillectual toast.
Evil_Geoff
Equal Opportunity Sadist
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2005
- Posts
- 6,375
Indeed so... Being comfortable in your own skin is a good thing. Being worried about the competition gives them power over you.CutieMouse said:
The more I read about your beau Cutie, as much as I hate to say this... I'm liking him. You may have found a keeper!
coyone
Really Really Experienced
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2007
- Posts
- 353
CutieMouse said:The irrational and distracted state I am currently experiencing, is not my fault. It's his fault. (He says the same thing regarding me, so I figure it's fair game to pass the buck on this topic.
I'll go back to being overly organized, attentive to detail, and all that jazz at some point... eventually... but for the next two weeks I suspect I'm gonna be intillectual toast.
mmmm the best kinda toast there is too!! have a great time! and don't forget the buddah *smiles brightly*
CutieMouse
Meticulously Flighty
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2004
- Posts
- 8,493
littleone77 said:ROFL
This thread has quickly become a favorite of mine to read at the end of the day..if I can make it that long.
Going along with the rejection topic..El_C is a perfect example of that. I told him no way back in October, several times through out the following months I told him 'sorry'. Thankfully he didn't listen and decided that friendship with me was better than nothing
Damn persistant men!
First email-
Him- Why limit yourself by location? (At the top of a freaking fascinating and brilliant profile thingie.)
Me- I am not not not going through the purgatory of a LDR ever again.
Him- Which is why I'm suggesting relocation if you're interested. Will you chat on IM?
Me- Sigh... sure...
First IM conversation- minor chit chat/introduction stuff, then...
Him- So are you open to relocating?
Me- Dude. I'd still have to earn enough $ to pay my child support (not very doable from a 3rd world country), and visit my children once a month (not very practical from a 3rd world country).
Him- So we'll fly your son/daughter down to the beach once a month; I see no reason for the finances of the situation to be your burden to bear. Are you open to the idea of relocating?
Me- There isn't one of them; there's FIVE of them. You'd be nuts to take that on.
Pause
Pause
Pause
Him- No problem; we'll buy tickets in bulk. Seriously, you've restored my faith that the internet isn't full of quarter-wits... may I please be so bold as to hear your voice? I have a weird feeling about this...
3 days later I agreed that he could book a flight.
I swear to God/dess we're either nuts, or soulmates.
littleone77
Hiatus
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2006
- Posts
- 7,111
Where would we be in general without men around to entertain us with their antics to get us?
HottieMama
Notta Domme
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2007
- Posts
- 6,066
i just have to say that i am SO glad i made a pic thread.... 
HottieMama
Notta Domme
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2007
- Posts
- 6,066
coyone said:
i'm not all that brave..just got a case of the "In your face, fucker" and decided to do it. It DID howeber start a conversation with someone wonderful earlier...and i hope to keep having Convos like that with him.
