The beauty of submissive men

[Veroe]

This entire entry (though old) is brilliant and sums up a lot of what has felt odd to me as a Domme; I do not wish to be a corset-clad caricature. Do I look fabulous in a corset? Damn right I do! But that's not all there is about me. Why should I be attracted to a 'worm'? There is nothing in that for me. Nothing that would make me care.

I'm going to be reading this thread thoroughly, but this entry particularly struck me.

You're right that entry from Erochic was indeed brilliant.

I came across a book featuring femdom and that was the eye-opener for me to get a better appreciation for not just femdom but BDSM overall. Sadly this writer is generally the only one I've ever really come across that writes femdom stories.

I blame a self-perpetuating PR image of the domme as the cold man-beating sadistic dominatrix rather than the powerful domme that is confident and comfortable enough in her power and her sexuality to dominate a man twice her size without resorting to more stick than carrot.

 

[TomPal]

This thread got me really horny

 

[FurryFury]

I am not a domme but my husband is submissive and I sometimes have tried to please that side of him.

Personally I believe, being submissive myself, that it's nothing to be ashamed of (granted I was ashamed and lacked understanding for many years) and very understandable particularly when you are in a life or profession in which you have to take charge yet are not comfy with doing so.

In the porn industry, much is made of humiliation because many men will pay to see it or experience it.

I think there is a way to honor his or my needs without that kind of humiliation though if one "needs" that it's valid too.

Society thinks it wants everyone to be a leader. Just read the want ads. And men are particularly expected to be the leaders. D/s is largely seen as M/f only. That's just not the case.

Anyone who has gone past black and white to explore and embrace the gray parts that scare them is beautiful to my way of thinking and often wise as well.

Here is a thread I started on honoring his kink you might enjoy it.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=398358

FF

 

[PDatura]

Obedience to your instructions includes patiently waiting for them. Admiration of your beautiful body is a privilege for which appreciation is best expressed through a quiet and diligent commitment to service, respect and submission......unless instructed otherwise.

THIS. THIS. SWEET JESUS, THIS.

 

[PDatura]

Oh there are many of us who like submissive men. The challenge is to find one that is able to submit and follow. Most seem to want to determine how they will be led which isn't following now is it?

Adequately explaining the challenges I've had with this would take a Literotica-sized site all my own!

I'm glad I'm not alone.

 

[PDatura]

Yes but she may not want suggestions anymore than drivers want directions from the back seat. Submissive should first understand what is expected of him and follow that lead. To do otherwise is not to follow regardless of the merits of your intentions.

As my mistress told me early on - start by shutting the fuck up and doing as your told and we'll take it from there.

Offering directions when you don't the destination is frustrating, self-indulgent and clearly not following. A man pestering a woman for what he wants and pretending he is serving her interest is no different than any other.

YES. I keep finding males who wish to be subs AND fuckboys. How the hell they expect to pull that off, I've no idea.

 

[PDatura]

Oh, heavens yes! That's lovely!

 

[PDatura]

Oh wow.. What a wonderful conversation

I am so glad that this thread has taken off so well and has become a sort of a little community where we can talk about these things.

It's a fascinating discussion about the lack of Dommes - but as a woman who is over 40 and has always enjoyed a fair amount of being dominant and assertive in bed but who has only started using the word Domme in the last few months, I feel the problem is not so much the lack of dominant woman - but the fact that dominant women find it difficult to own it or see a way of being dominant that suits them.

I am too, although I've come to it late!

For there being such a "lack" of Dommes (which is BS), I sure have run into a bunch of subs who couldn't bother being submissive when I was right there! If they wanted a Domme, they sure didn't act like it. The one sub I really enjoyed behaved in unique ways I found difficult to interpret, and communication was routinely an issue.

 

[eroticspank]

To continue about males subs

I am not a domme but my husband is submissive and I sometimes have tried to please that side of him.

I think there is a way to honor his or my needs without that kind of humiliation though if one "needs" that it's valid too.

Anyone who has gone past black and white to explore and embrace the gray parts that scare them is beautiful to my way of thinking and often wise as well.

FF

I am too, although I've come to it late!

For there being such a "lack" of Dommes (which is BS), I sure have run into a bunch of subs who couldn't bother being submissive when I was right there! If they wanted a Domme, they sure didn't act like it. The one sub I really enjoyed behaved in unique ways I found difficult to interpret, and communication was routinely an issue.

I do understand there are guys out there, that claim to be "subs" just so they can get laid and top from the bottom. There are many more of us that are not that way and are truly looking for a woman who can take control. It does not mean she has to take control every day, wear a corset, boots, and carry a whip; it is about her enjoying the moment when she does take control and me being a part of it. Being I am a foodie, here is my analogy: Dinner is in her total control. She decides the menu, appetizer, entree, Desert, and Wine. She can make all of it herself or have me make the meal at her direction. The joy I get out if it is knowing this meal is what she designed and directed. The joy she gets out if it is that it is her creation and my pleasure in helping her create it. Seeing her eat each course with delicious hunger, smiling and moaning, gives me so much joy I am happy to clean up the dishes and surprise her with chocolates! It is about her happiness!

Another point that Furry mentions above is very important. The Black and White is easy, but exploring the grey parts is what is not. The thought of being with a beautiful caring Domme who I have chemistry with is wonderful BUT also can be scary. I can not speak for others but I find it very hard to just walk into a woman's arms and say, "You are mine to do with what you wish!"

I need to be able to develop trust with her and over time, I find myself submitting more and more. Relationship, chemistry, and trust are very important for me before any D/s play.

To find someone who will give me what I truly crave is a bit scary. I don't really know how I will feel, maybe fall deeply in love, maybe deeply satisfied, or very needy. However I feel, I would want to be around a woman I trust and chemistry with. So I think some guys are interested they just may get scared once in the bedroom.

ES

 

[4yourpleasureiam]

I do so much love facesitting a good boy.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/d0e0cc99e4eda77f5ca01449c855b8b4/tumblr_nkuy7ntWOW1r2z5szo1_500.jpg

All you have to do is come home and I will be waiting face up. and yes no kisses

 

[PDatura]

Oh.

Oh yes. That makes me happy indeed!

 

[PDatura]

I really have to make some objections to this.

It can be really hard go women to let go of society's expectations to be nice girls and to be liked and not to be too aggressive.
...
I was always a rough and tumble little girl and did martial art when I grew up and did what I wanted when I wanted.... But I *still* struggled with that when it came to taking dominance.
...
I'm still growing into my dominance and really accepting that it is okay.
...
I know I have been tentative and uncertain at times, although confident at others. But my subs have worked *with* me, not ignored requests or orders because they weren't delivered correctly.

This reminds me of the "You Iz Doing It Wrong!" article posted earlier in this thread. No, I'm not doing it wrong, I'm doing it MY WAY.

Just because something is prettily phrased doesn't mean there isn't an underlying, implicit command there.

EXACTLY.
I'm a Southern girl, and was brought up that I damn well better be polite. I will not reject my entire upbringing to please some sub so I can say it "right". If I say, "Sugar, would you go pour me a drink, please?" with a glorious bright smile, I mean "Pour me a fucking drink. Now." The universe help you if you delay.

And I was stating that what works for you is not going to help women who want to develop their dominance lose their uncertainty and societal imposed behaviours and learn to own it.

It's great if you always find women who are strong in their dominance and can order you the way that works for you - so you don't yawn and go watch TV instead if doing what they want you to do.

The conversation is about getting away from stereotypes and embracing the variations and reality.
And the biggest reality I see is that if you want there to be more dominant women you have to encourage them, and not expect them to be perfect Dommes from the outset.

Even more, you have to encourage them to be the Domme they ARE, not the Domme you demand of them. If I want to yell all day for things to get done, I'll open a daycare.

 

[PDatura]

Ferns said it beautifully
This:
" Simply put, for a D/s dynamic to work he has to submit, and saying ‘no, I don’t want to’ is not submitting.

If my submissive makes arbitrary choices about when he’s going to say ‘yes’ and when he’s going to say ‘no’, that’s not submission. That’s a vanilla relationship where he does what I want if he feels like it, and then doesn’t when it doesn’t suit him."


And when she talked about the effect of that on Dommes:

"...if your dominant is new, or is a little insecure, or is feeling vulnerable, then putting up resistance is a nightmare scenario that is likely to make her back down and just not bother trying any more (that is, she will withdraw her dominance). And that will hit her confidence hard: it’s really difficult to come back from that. The little voice in her head will have a field day telling her she’s a rubbish Domme, and probably selfish and bossy and petty and mean and NO-ONE WILL EVER LOVE HER!"

I often see guys posting that they want their wives to be dominant and when their wives try they tell them that they aren't strong enough... And strangely enough their wives aren't prepared to do it again.

THIS. I've dealt with that 'no, I don't want to' (in attitude, not exact words), and I find it truly upsetting. Oh, that's a limit? Put it in our limits, then. Otherwise, DO IT.

I've spent a lot of time second-guessing my skills. I've done a lot of reading and research and studying and discussing. I've actively tried to improve, and been consistently knocked on my ass. I'm surprised I'm even still interested, and the fact I am indicates that this is a huge part of me.

I like being pleased, and I like having someone who aches to please me. I believe in feedback sessions (which requires good communication) where people can spell out issues, but until that's sorted out, if it's not a hard limit, DO AS YOU ARE TOLD. I might have a fun end game planned if you just wait for it!

 

[PDatura]

on a different note, I was thinking about 'punishment' earlier... not spanking (or withholding spanking), or anything to be given... punishment for me, both as a sub and as a top, is the loss of intimacy and contact with my partner.

the most devastating words I ever had spoken to me were along the lines of, "i need you to ____ or else I will have to go away for a while." I could feel the grief in his voice, and it crushed my soul. I can't think of anything worse that being parted from the one who completes me.

This resonates with me so much.

That's the worst punishment I can think of, by far. It's so bad that I will try a million things first before doing it. But sometimes, it's the last remaining option.

There's a reason you could feel that grief; it's there any time a dominant has to even consider this. If it crushed your soul, imagine how much it crushed his; he actually had to say it.

 

[PDatura]

I crave going to that place with someone. It's so amazing when it happens, and it's so intoxicating.

 

[draig_OMalley2]

Re PDatura's post, "This resonates with me so much.

That's the worst punishment I can think of, by far. It's so bad that I will try a million things first before doing it. But sometimes, it's the last remaining option.

There's a reason you could feel that grief; it's there any time a dominant has to even consider this. If it crushed your soul, imagine how much it crushed his; he actually had to say it."

i find this an astute observation, indicating real experience. i don't generally see this level of depth in posts i read on here, which i, a submissive male, respect and treasure when i come across it. thank you for sharing.

 

[eroticspank]

Revived!

Thanks to PDatura and other posts, I think we can safely say this thread has been revived! Well thought out comments and introspective dialogue is what this thread has always been about.....thank you


ES

 

[PDatura]

Re PDatura's post, "This resonates with me so much.

That's the worst punishment I can think of, by far. It's so bad that I will try a million things first before doing it. But sometimes, it's the last remaining option.

There's a reason you could feel that grief; it's there any time a dominant has to even consider this. If it crushed your soul, imagine how much it crushed his; he actually had to say it."

i find this an astute observation, indicating real experience. i don't generally see this level of depth in posts i read on here, which i, a submissive male, respect and treasure when i come across it. thank you for sharing.

Absolutely, this indicates real experience. You're very welcome.

Just in case it helps, though it runs the risk of being dramatic:

I was thinking about the Ice Queen Dommes and how I am jealous of that (nonexistent) creature, and the whole untouchable not feeling thing. I can't speak for other dominants, but I've never had anything else in life keep the heartache at the world at bay like dominating does. If I could, I'd cut my beating heart from my chest, put it in a box, and lock it away, safe. I feel so much. So very much. The depths at which I care are agonizing. But I can't do that. I have to get by in the universe, no help from a box around my heart. When I dominate, I don't want the box. I don't care about the box, I'm freed of that need. The relief is sublime. Caring is a strength, deepening the connection with the sub. When I get to the point mentioned above, where I feel like I'm going to have to withdraw my intimacy and presence, the grief is real. I know that, not only am I about to have to deal with the wish that I could remove my heart to better cope with the world, I am also likely to have to deal with more heartache in relation to the one in front of me who has been my gateway to peace.

The grief at having to revert is beyond profound.

 

[JenKnotty]

I am thrilled to find this post. I thought I was the only one sick of Dommes being portrayed as ball busting, men hating women. I care about the sub in my life!

 

[eroticspank]

Absolutely, this indicates real experience. You're very welcome.

Just in case it helps, though it runs the risk of being dramatic:

I was thinking about the Ice Queen Dommes and how I am jealous of that (nonexistent) creature, and the whole untouchable not feeling thing. I can't speak for other dominants, but I've never had anything else in life keep the heartache at the world at bay like dominating does. If I could, I'd cut my beating heart from my chest, put it in a box, and lock it away, safe. I feel so much. So very much. The depths at which I care are agonizing. But I can't do that. I have to get by in the universe, no help from a box around my heart. When I dominate, I don't want the box. I don't care about the box, I'm freed of that need. The relief is sublime. Caring is a strength, deepening the connection with the sub. When I get to the point mentioned above, where I feel like I'm going to have to withdraw my intimacy and presence, the grief is real. I know that, not only am I about to have to deal with the wish that I could remove my heart to better cope with the world, I am also likely to have to deal with more heartache in relation to the one in front of me who has been my gateway to peace.

The grief at having to revert is beyond profound.

Feeling is great. It is what makes everything so real and passionate. I can't do the ICE Domme type. You can care for your sub, you are just in a place where you get to dial up your pleasures and desires first. You are with someone who really wants serve you and see you take the lead. It is the knowing that we (as subs) are a part of your pleasure and what we do pleases and makes you happy is what fulfills us as a subs. (My opinion of course)

I think there is a picture earlier in this thread, if not maybe I saw it in another thread. The Domme is holding her sub after she whipped him. You can see the marks on his back as she holds him. That kind of "aftercare" can only be done IF you care. It is like her words were: "You know it turns me on to whip you like that, thank you for enduring it for me." She cares for him and is not shy about whipping him again when it suits her.

ES

 

[PDatura]

You're right that entry from Erochic was indeed brilliant.

I came across a book featuring femdom and that was the eye-opener for me to get a better appreciation for not just femdom but BDSM overall. Sadly this writer is generally the only one I've ever really come across that writes femdom stories.

I blame a self-perpetuating PR image of the domme as the cold man-beating sadistic dominatrix rather than the powerful domme that is confident and comfortable enough in her power and her sexuality to dominate a man twice her size without resorting to more stick than carrot.

I waited a little bit to reply to this, because my gears have been turning.

First, who is the writer? I need to check that out.

Second, I think I need to ask what people in this thread think "good" stories and porn are to them. Or maybe even start a new thread referencing this one. I'm sensing a gap in the market, and with the right information, some authors could fill it.

What do you want to see in porn as a Domme? as a sub? What is it for you that is lacking? Other than overuse of stick?

 

[PDatura]

I do understand there are guys out there, that claim to be "subs" just so they can get laid and top from the bottom. There are many more of us that are not that way and are truly looking for a woman who can take control. It does not mean she has to take control every day, wear a corset, boots, and carry a whip; it is about her enjoying the moment when she does take control and me being a part of it. Being I am a foodie, here is my analogy: Dinner is in her total control. She decides the menu, appetizer, entree, Desert, and Wine. She can make all of it herself or have me make the meal at her direction. The joy I get out if it is knowing this meal is what she designed and directed. The joy she gets out if it is that it is her creation and my pleasure in helping her create it. Seeing her eat each course with delicious hunger, smiling and moaning, gives me so much joy I am happy to clean up the dishes and surprise her with chocolates! It is about her happiness!

Another point that Furry mentions above is very important. The Black and White is easy, but exploring the grey parts is what is not. The thought of being with a beautiful caring Domme who I have chemistry with is wonderful BUT also can be scary. I can not speak for others but I find it very hard to just walk into a woman's arms and say, "You are mine to do with what you wish!"

I need to be able to develop trust with her and over time, I find myself submitting more and more. Relationship, chemistry, and trust are very important for me before any D/s play.

To find someone who will give me what I truly crave is a bit scary. I don't really know how I will feel, maybe fall deeply in love, maybe deeply satisfied, or very needy. However I feel, I would want to be around a woman I trust and chemistry with. So I think some guys are interested they just may get scared once in the bedroom.

ES

I think your assessment about the fear is accurate. I would say that, when I got what I craved as a Domme, I got all three of the whammys you listed at once: deep love, deep satisfaction, and extreme neediness. I can't imagine that's easy to deal with on the other end.

Walking up and offering submission is serious and should be taken seriously. Internet culture offers us the option of sitting, inputting a desire, and getting that out, and all anonymously, so I get why it would be easy to get trapped in the insta-serve porn aspects and not escape to real, true dominion or service. Many subs are just in the habit of going out and getting their jollies on demand, so suddenly accepting dominion seems to be a foreign concept. I get why so many Dommes are ball-busters when it comes to chastity; libido is a powerful temptress.

"it is about her happiness" is the point that I think many would-be subs miss. The myth of the Domme Deficit should be replaced with the truth: sub Deficit. If subs got it through their heads that it's about pleasing the Domme and not themselves, there wouldn't be so many Dommes choosing to exit via the door marked 'Fuck This, I'm Outta Here'. Hell, I'm standing next to that door myself.

 

[PDatura]

Thanks to PDatura and other posts, I think we can safely say this thread has been revived! Well thought out comments and introspective dialogue is what this thread has always been about.....thank you


ES

You're welcome!

 

[PDatura]

Feeling is great. It is what makes everything so real and passionate. I can't do the ICE Domme type. You can care for your sub, you are just in a place where you get to dial up your pleasures and desires first. You are with someone who really wants serve you and see you take the lead. It is the knowing that we (as subs) are a part of your pleasure and what we do pleases and makes you happy is what fulfills us as a subs. (My opinion of course)
ES

Feeling is great, until the feeling you're dealing with is consistently and overwhelmingly negative. But I agree with what you're saying here. If you don't care, then there's no true fun in the domination. I think a lot of male subs flock to ice queens because society does not give males permission to be emotionally vulnerable creatures, and therefore it is easier to be where emotion is not expected. Again, an example where the sub is putting their needs above that of the Domme, which won't ultimately work. Goddamn patriarchy, fucking up my bedroom shit. Grrr.

I've juggled multiple subs at once before, looking for what I wanted. There were some I liked as people, some I thought were hot and fun, and some I thought were excellent in their service with lots of initiative and follow-through. For the most part, though, when compared to these subs, I had more affection for my vacuum cleaner (and my vacuum cleaner kind of sucks). Sure, they did as I asked, but ultimately I gave zero fucks about what they did. Their service was moderately entertaining. I don't know about you, but to me, that seems incredibly insulting. And not in a good way.

I spoke to a Dom once who said that when you become romantically attached, you automatically lose something in the power balance. To a certain extent, that's true. But then, you don't get to see a sub really shine. They have no reason to shine for you if you don't care. I'll admit that I wish I could care less. It would be easier. Much easier. But that doesn't mean it would be more fulfilling.

 

[Veroe]

I waited a little bit to reply to this, because my gears have been turning.

First, who is the writer? I need to check that out.

Second, I think I need to ask what people in this thread think "good" stories and porn are to them. Or maybe even start a new thread referencing this one. I'm sensing a gap in the market, and with the right information, some authors could fill it.

What do you want to see in porn as a Domme? as a sub? What is it for you that is lacking? Other than overuse of stick?

I've mentioned her before here, and hesitated to mention her again in that post cuz I didn't want to seem like I was spamming this thread for her, but since you've asked, PD...

Joey Hill's The Vampire Queen's Servant is the book that opened my eyes on Femdom and BDSM as a whole. It's an erotic Romance novel from my favorite writer of that genre. She writes both femdom and maledom stories and has more of the maledom, but quite a few femdom oriented stories, that I adore. Because she's able to write the dommes as complex and captivating well-rounded characters in her stories rather than the stereotypical caricature I see too often.

Another good one was Tiffany Resiz's The Siren. The main character is a switch...so its not precisely femdom all the time-in fact I'd say she's the one holding the crop only about 30 or 40% of the time in the book series, but I love the brazen witty and fun-loving sense of humor Mrs. Reisz gives Nora: Something I've never seen in other stories of the subject. Too often these stories have a domme be a dour and serious character like humor was a sign of weakness or something.

Another good one I've read was Jenna Howard's Domme for a Cowboy Sadly this is the only work she's done of this subject that I've found and its too bad because I thought she wrote a good story with a compelling Domme and sub character dynamic. I'd love to read more.

As far as the difference between good stories and porn: There really shouldn't be a difference. Unfortunately the difference is profound. Porn puts its emphasis on speed (wham bam thank you ma'am). They know they're readers are just looking to get their rocks off and go often leaving the story without reading the rest of it afterward. So typically their stories have under-developed and stereotypical characters that play into the clichés in favor of the quick and heavy action. Alternatively (I hesitate to use the term) Good stories have something to say beyond just getting the readers rocks off. They use characters that go beyond the stereotypes in both the domme and submissive roles. Like Jacob in the Vampire Queen's Servant isn't naturally submissive. He's all alpha type of man. The type of man that could walk into a bar and expect to walk out with any woman he chose to invite to warm his bed for the night, but he chooses to submit to Lyssa because he's fallen in love with her, and much of the drama in the book is his battle with his own sense of self in serving her and being part of her world, a world that sees him as little more than we'd see someone's dog or other property 24-7.