The future is dense, walkable cities.

[TrailerHitch]

It's funny how often my ideas are criticized or attacked, yet the idiocy of the urban dream cities of a few is openly and unquestioned accepted as the answer. No sensible or reasonable answer to any point I've made has come through. In the end your urban jail cell apartment dwellers would be dead in a year or less without food and supplies transported from the rural. Yet if the dream of the end of cars and trucks occurs and then the removal of roadways seems to make it clear that there is no way to sustain enough food deliveries for large urban areas. Again do as you wish, but if you plan is population reduction there are a lot less gruesome ways to die than starvation. Heck you could just go get a covid vaccine and die from one of the dozen or so side effects.

 

[ll74]

It's funny how often my ideas are criticized or attacked, yet the idiocy of the urban dream cities of a few is openly and unquestioned accepted as the answer. No sensible or reasonable answer to any point I've made has come through. In the end your urban jail cell apartment dwellers would be dead in a year or less without food and supplies transported from the rural. Yet if the dream of the end of cars and trucks occurs and then the removal of roadways seems to make it clear that there is no way to sustain enough food deliveries for large urban areas. Again do as you wish, but if you plan is population reduction there are a lot less gruesome ways to die than starvation. Heck you could just go get a covid vaccine and die from one of the dozen or so side effects.

Yes, probably because your argument demonstrates a clear animosity against city living.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

It's funny how often my ideas are criticized or attacked, yet the idiocy of the urban dream cities of a few is openly and unquestioned accepted as the answer. No sensible or reasonable answer to any point I've made has come through. In the end your urban jail cell apartment dwellers would be dead in a year or less without food and supplies transported from the rural. Yet if the dream of the end of cars and trucks occurs and then the removal of roadways seems to make it clear that there is no way to sustain enough food deliveries for large urban areas. Again do as you wish, but if you plan is population reduction there are a lot less gruesome ways to die than starvation. Heck you could just go get a covid vaccine and die from one of the dozen or so side effects.

All I want is more bike lanes and train lines. I don’t care if people in the sticks drive around in monster trucks on dirt roads.

 

[TastySuckToy]

It's funny how often my ideas are criticized or attacked, yet the idiocy of the urban dream cities of a few is openly and unquestioned accepted as the answer.

Certainly not on my end.

My criticism of using farmland as a fuel source is just factual; EROEI of agricultural biofuels has been heavily explored and quickly deemed non viable.

This isn't a promotion of anti-vehicle sentiment, just pointing out that particular avenue has been explored.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Certainly not on my end.

My criticism of using farmland as a fuel source is just factual; EROEI of agricultural biofuels has been heavily explored and quickly deemed non viable.

This isn't a promotion of anti-vehicle sentiment, just pointing out that particular avenue has been explored.

The one advantage of alcohol as a fuel is anyone can make a still and brew alcohol. Not many can, even if they have an oil well, turn oil into gasoline or diesel.

Used cooking oil can be strained and burned in diesel engines. I had a friend who had a regular route where he picked up used cooking oil for his diesel pick up. It was a symbiotic relationship. He saved the restaurants money because they didn't have to pay for disposal and he didn't have to pay to acquire the cooking oil.

 

[MajorRewrite]

It's funny how often my ideas are criticized or attacked, yet the idiocy of the urban dream cities of a few is openly and unquestioned accepted as the answer. No sensible or reasonable answer to any point I've made has come through. In the end your urban jail cell apartment dwellers would be dead in a year or less without food and supplies transported from the rural. Yet if the dream of the end of cars and trucks occurs and then the removal of roadways seems to make it clear that there is no way to sustain enough food deliveries for large urban areas. Again do as you wish, but if you plan is population reduction there are a lot less gruesome ways to die than starvation. Heck you could just go get a covid vaccine and die from one of the dozen or so side effects.

This is a thread about cities, and how the best cities function. You keep trying to make the thread about rural life.

Have you considered starting your own “rural life” safe space thread?

 

[TastySuckToy]

The one advantage of alcohol as a fuel is anyone can make a still and brew alcohol. Not many can, even if they have an oil well, turn oil into gasoline or diesel.

Used cooking oil can be strained and burned in diesel engines. I had a friend who had a regular route where he picked up used cooking oil for his diesel pick up. It was a symbiotic relationship. He saved the restaurants money because they didn't have to pay for disposal and he didn't have to pay to acquire the cooking oil.

That's a good example of how much infrastructure and resources is required for one person to obtain a meaningful amount of fuel for limited use. Good arrangement and kudos to him for taking advantage. Not at all practical at scale though.

Future is definitely electrical. Major advancements on electrical motors, battery tech, reliability, range, charging times, etc will have EVs outcompeting ICE vehicles soon enough.

Free market and economics will win the competition.

 

[TrailerHitch]

This is a thread about cities, and how the best cities function. You keep trying to make the thread about rural life.

Have you considered starting your own “rural life” safe space thread?

I only point out how delusional these urban scenarios are. Cities without someone supplying food and fuel, not only for vehicles but for heat and electrical production will die a painful death.

 

[Lazaran]

This is a thread about cities, and how the best cities function. You keep trying to make the thread about rural life.

Have you considered starting your own “rural life” safe space thread?

“Nevertheless, she persisted”…

 

[TastySuckToy]

I only point out how delusional these urban scenarios are. Cities without someone supplying food and fuel, not only for vehicles but for heat and electrical production will die a painful death.

I've been doing city living for getting close to 30 years.

There are times I really miss living on the farm.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Each living situation takes a specific type of people. I have lived in rural areas the vast majority of my life. I lived in suburbia for several years. People live too close and the constant din of noise was not for me. I never lived in an urban area and it holds no allure for me.

 

[MajorRewrite]

I only point out how delusional these urban scenarios are. Cities without someone supplying food and fuel, not only for vehicles but for heat and electrical production will die a painful death.

Nobody but you (and maybe Cherno the dystopian lunatic) suggested that.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Nobody but you (and maybe Cherno the dystopian lunatic) suggested that.

Well if there are no roads and no trucks, and no gas or diesel, how will you supply your utopian empire?

 

[MajorRewrite]

Well if there are no roads and no trucks, and no gas or diesel, how will you supply your utopian empire?

Nobody but you (and maybe Cherno the dystopian lunatic) suggested that.

 

[Chernosoth]

Past the fossil fuel age, alcohol and vegetable oils will probably be made enough for some ultralight aircraft, which will be too valuable in military recon to let that tech lapse. And maybe also some riverboats to move upstream.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Nobody but you (and maybe Cherno the dystopian lunatic) suggested that.

I never suggested it. I responded to those that did.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Past the fossil fuel age, alcohol and vegetable oils will probably be made enough for some ultralight aircraft, which will be too valuable in military recon to let that tech lapse. And maybe also some riverboats to move upstream.

Old style paddle wheel riverboats used coal to fuel boilers similar to steam locomotives.

 

[Chernosoth]

I don’t care if people in the sticks drive around in monster trucks on dirt roads.

Dirt roads can become rutted with four wheels running in two tracks. Trikes spread the weight out to three tracks. Trikes in cities and suburbs are currently marketed as toys, but they may become more common for more mpg.

 

[Chernosoth]

All I want is more bike lanes and train lines.

Absolutely. We need more public transit and bikeable routes so all people can go to work. We can pay for it with welfare currently paid to people who don't work, starting with bureaucrats, corporate Human Resources, the insurance industry, etc.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Absolutely. We need more public transit and bikeable routes so all people can go to work. We can pay for it with welfare currently paid to people who don't work, starting with bureaucrats, corporate Human Resources, the insurance industry, etc.

Let’s pay for it by having people pay the market rate for public parking. We shouldn’t be subsidizing car ownership.

 

[RustyRedheadSpitfire]

Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone not have a car? (Relying primarily on public transit)

I don’t own a car.

That usually gets one of two reactions. Either people think I’m making some kind of environmental statement or they assume I can’t afford one. Neither is true. I simply sat down with a calculator one day and realized owning a car made very little sense for how I actually live.

I live in Pittsburgh. Most of the places I go regularly are accessible by foot, bus, or the incline. I work downtown, in Oakland, museums, libraries, archives, coffee shops, and university buildings. Parking is often more inconvenient than getting there in the first place.

When I started adding up the costs, ownership stopped looking very attractive. Insurance alone would run me roughly $1,500 to $2,000 a year. Add registration, inspections, maintenance, repairs, tires, parking, fuel, and depreciation, and I’m spending several thousand dollars annually before the car has taken me anywhere interesting.

By comparison, I can use public transit for everyday transportation, take an Uber when I need one, and rent a car for weekend trips or research excursions. Even if I rented a car one or two weekends a month, I’d still come out ahead financially in most years.

The funny thing is that people assume not owning a car limits me. In practice, it mostly frees me from worrying about a machine that’s sitting unused 95% of the time while still demanding money.

Now, if I lived somewhere rural, I’d absolutely own one. But for my particular life in Pittsburgh, a rental car a few times a month makes far more sense than buying, insuring, parking, maintaining, and eventually replacing a vehicle I barely use.

So yes, there is at least one person here without a car. I’m not against them. I just don’t need one often enough to justify the expense.

 

[Chernosoth]

I don’t own a car.

I live in Pittsburgh. Most of the places I go regularly are accessible by foot, bus, or the incline. I work downtown, in Oakland, museums, libraries, archives, coffee shops, and university buildings. Parking is often more inconvenient than getting there in the first place.

That's a hard hillclimbing town for cyclists, especially in winter with ice on the hills. It's a place to spend money for better bike parts.

 

[Chernosoth]

Out of sheer curiosity, does anyone not have a car? (Relying primarily on public transit)

Sometimes. I prefer biking instead of waiting for buses, but now in middle age I don't have the endurance to ride all day. I rarely bike more than 20 miles now. When I have an automobile, it's usually a pickup with room for my bike, but most pickups are crap now. I will probably buy a car and a bike rack. Most cars are also crap, but I want more mpg. My last truck had only 15 mpg.

 

[Chernosoth]

Let’s pay for it by having people pay the market rate for public parking. We shouldn’t be subsidizing car ownership.

Paying for parking now would reduce sales. I avoid metered lots. There is an intermediate step, more businesses using the same parking lot, and staying there longer. We currently have many small businesses with their own little lots, and then relocating in 15 years. Modern commercial buildings are made to last only 15 years.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I don’t own a car.

That usually gets one of two reactions. Either people think I’m making some kind of environmental statement or they assume I can’t afford one. Neither is true. I simply sat down with a calculator one day and realized owning a car made very little sense for how I actually live.

I live in Pittsburgh. Most of the places I go regularly are accessible by foot, bus, or the incline. I work downtown, in Oakland, museums, libraries, archives, coffee shops, and university buildings. Parking is often more inconvenient than getting there in the first place.

When I started adding up the costs, ownership stopped looking very attractive. Insurance alone would run me roughly $1,500 to $2,000 a year. Add registration, inspections, maintenance, repairs, tires, parking, fuel, and depreciation, and I’m spending several thousand dollars annually before the car has taken me anywhere interesting.

By comparison, I can use public transit for everyday transportation, take an Uber when I need one, and rent a car for weekend trips or research excursions. Even if I rented a car one or two weekends a month, I’d still come out ahead financially in most years.

The funny thing is that people assume not owning a car limits me. In practice, it mostly frees me from worrying about a machine that’s sitting unused 95% of the time while still demanding money.

Now, if I lived somewhere rural, I’d absolutely own one. But for my particular life in Pittsburgh, a rental car a few times a month makes far more sense than buying, insuring, parking, maintaining, and eventually replacing a vehicle I barely use.

So yes, there is at least one person here without a car. I’m not against them. I just don’t need one often enough to justify the expense.

I use our car about once a week to shop for groceries. (I like to buy everything for the week at once.) If the car is in the shop I can walk to local stores to make meals, but I’m not going to schlep a case of Diet Coke home.

So even in LA you can get by without a car.