The future is dense, walkable cities.

[Chernosoth]

I laugh wondering where you will get hay and oats to feed the thousands, or tens of thousands, of horses needed for large urban areas.

That's why older communities have town commons, public grazing spaces. Newer towns have parks. Grass can grow anywhere. The urban size limit will still be locally available human food within horse drawn wagon distance.

 

[Rightguide]

I know! We have a lot of work to do to undo the damage!

How many times a month do you walk through Hollywood?

 

[TrailerHitch]

That's why older communities have town commons, public grazing spaces. Newer towns have parks. Grass can grow anywhere. The urban size limit will still be locally available human food within horse drawn wagon distance.

So you seriously believe you will keep horses well nourished and healthy feeding them grass in parks. Either you haven't got a clue or you are delusional.

 

[MajorRewrite]

You avoided horses.

Yes, because before automobiles, the vast majority of people in cities got around on foot, on bikes or on streetcars. As I said. Few people in cities had horses.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Good for them. Keep your automobileless fantasies in the cities. Maybe you can go back to horse drawn steamer pumpers and horse drawn hand raised aerials for fire protection. Horse drawn ambulances for EMS.

 

[Chernosoth]

So you seriously believe you will keep horses well nourished and healthy feeding them grass in parks. Either you haven't got a clue or you are delusional.

Do you not know grass is the primary food of all ruminants? Everything from goats to elephants.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Do you not know grass is the primary food of all ruminants? Everything from goats to elephants.

Do you not know that if you don't have enough available grazing land it will be eaten bare and turned into mud. I suppose not city boy.

 

[Chernosoth]

Do you not know that if you don't have enough available grazing land it will be eaten bare and turned into mud. I suppose not city boy.

That's the latest in your long line of attempts to dodge the obvious. Cities will also have deliveries of grain, alfalfa, apples, or whatever experienced equestrians such as yourself think is necessary for healthy horses.

 

[TrailerHitch]

That's the latest in your long line of attempts to dodge the obvious. Cities will also have deliveries of grain, alfalfa, apples, or whatever experienced equestrians such as yourself think is necessary for healthy horses.

Hm...How will they be delivered? From hundreds of miles away? 40 mule team wagon trains? Or more likely trucks that destroys your no internal combustion engines ban.

You obviously have spent no time out in farm country with acres of pasture land. Usually broken up so it has time to heal and regrow.

 

[Chernosoth]

Hm...How will they be delivered? From hundreds of miles away? 40 mule team wagon trains? Or more likely trucks that destroys your no internal combustion engines ban.

You obviously have spent no time out in farm country with acres of pasture land. Usually broken up so it has time to heal and regrow.

Like cities had before cars. Grain can travel some distance. People who want fresher food may prefer their own gardens or plots in community gardens. Cheese and butter evolved as longer shelf life milk products, so there may be less liquid milk and more cheese and butter.

 

[Chernosoth]

We will need creative engineering and improvisation, with less energy, lower grade materials, salvaged materials, etc. People who refuse to try because they're trapped in obsolete beliefs or refuse to give up luxuries they will lose anyway will naturally select themselves out of the gene pool.

 

[TrailerHitch]

We will need creative engineering and improvisation, with less energy, lower grade materials, salvaged materials, etc. People who refuse to try because they're trapped in obsolete beliefs or refuse to give up luxuries they will lose anyway will naturally select themselves out of the gene pool.

Your new utopia sounds like a bleak, dark, soulless place where people who refuse to comply are allowed to die or perhaps are exiled or sent to "camps."

 

[MajorRewrite]

Your new utopia sounds like a bleak, dark, soulless place where people who refuse to comply are allowed to die or perhaps are exiled or sent to "camps."

Cherno is a dystopian lunatic MAGA sheep, so your description is spot on.

 

[Chernosoth]

Your new utopia sounds like a bleak, dark, soulless place

That describes suburbia.

 

[TrailerHitch]

I don't live in your urban hell, or suburbia either. I live in a very rural area. We have a garden, fruit trees (apples, peaches, cherries), wild black berries in our woods, and farm fresh eggs just down the road. Just so you know, if all you've ever eaten are supermarket eggs you have never really tasted an egg.

The odds of those of us in the rural surviving the societal collapse you predict is far greater than urban folks who grow nothing, build nothing, and fix nothing. Your world depends on people like me to keep it running yet you look down on us. We already know when the city runs out of Starbucks and restaurant food, and the grocery stores you can walk to are empty you will all attempt to move into the rural to try and take what you think you deserve. That's not going to go like you think it will.

 

[Chernosoth]

I don't live in your urban hell, or suburbia either. I live in a very rural area. We have a garden, fruit trees (apples, peaches, cherries), wild black berries in our woods, and farm fresh eggs just down the road. Just so you know, if all you've ever eaten are supermarket eggs you have never really tasted an egg.

The odds of those of us in the rural surviving the societal collapse you predict is far greater than urban folks who grow nothing, build nothing, and fix nothing. Your world depends on people like me to keep it running yet you look down on us.

If you can grow enough without imported fertilizer, diesel fuel, and terminator seeds. Farmers who never stopped using local manure, horses, and their own seeds could be fine, the few that remain after a century of financial pressures to squeeze them out.

 

[TrailerHitch]

We make our own compost. So no fertilizer at all. Small amounts of manure. The point is we can raise enough food for ourselves and can continue to sustain it. Try to replicate that in your urban area where you have surrendered all the potential crop land to grass to feed the horses you'll eventually end up eating.

 

[Chernosoth]

We make our own compost. So no fertilizer at all. Small amounts of manure. The point is we can raise enough food for ourselves and can continue to sustain it. Try to replicate that in your urban area where you have surrendered all the potential crop land to grass to feed the horses you'll eventually end up eating.

If everything is fine there and you're already living the rural part of our future, then why are you trying so hard to shoot down the urban part? Is your situation not really that fine?

 

[TrailerHitch]

Honestly, and I have said this before, I don't give 2 shits what kind of hell hole you turn cities into. The problem is your delusional belief that you can jam hundreds of thousands, if not millions, into tiny cement boxes, and become self sufficient. No, you won't. Unless you start manufacturing Soylent Green (Which is manufactured from dead people) to feed your masses, you have zero chance of succeeding. In the end your ludicrous plan will count on the crucial people you ridicule to feed you.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Honestly, and I have said this before, I don't give 2 shits what kind of hell hole you turn cities into. The problem is your delusional belief that you can jam hundreds of thousands, if not millions, into tiny cement boxes, and become self sufficient. No, you won't. Unless you start manufacturing Soylent Green (Which is manufactured from dead people) to feed your masses, you have zero chance of succeeding. I the end your ludicrous plan will count on the crucial people you ridicule to feed you.

Do you refine your own petroleum?

 

[TrailerHitch]

Do you refine your own petroleum?

A ludicrous derailment. If you seriously believe that in the next 100 years or so the petroleum industry will cease to exist you are delusional or just plain stupid. There is far too much money to be made for it to simply cease to exist.

But to your point, if push came to shove, there is more than enough corn produced every year to convert most of the gasoline powered vehicles to alcohol. Or for that matter to propane or LNG.

 

[TrailerHitch]

https://***************.com/*******

Fuck off with your spam shit in multiple categories.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

https://***************.com/*******

Reported.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Reported.

I reported them too.

 

[TastySuckToy]

But to your point, if push came to shove, there is more than enough corn produced every year to convert most of the gasoline powered vehicles to alcohol.

You do realize that the amount of energy and resources required for farming means you would be extraordinarily lucky if you managed to break even on energy input for energy gained.