The Last of Us - Ep 3

[Raazor]

Wow! Aggressive much!

If there was anything whatsoever homophobic in what I wrote, please point it out. I found the episode strange, not the gay relationship; I write stories about gay relationships (albeit female ones). You are jumping at shadows.

Em

There was nothing homophobic in your post. But, you opened that door with the classic disclaimer. I mean, ‘my best friend is (insert group as applicable)’ is pretty much a cliche.

The episode about two men loving each other and trying to eke out some normality and happiness in a effed up world didn’t work for you. So be it. It did for me and I don’t write male gay stories and my best friend isn’t gay. But then none of that has anything to do with Episode 3.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Funny thing is 20-30 years ago I was homophobic. It is episodes of shows and movies like this over the years that have helped soften my attitudes and understand that human love is love. 20 years ago I might have been here saying what's the big deal. Because secretly I hated it becoming more accepted and being a big deal. So I think if in 2023 you are the one voice saying what's the big deal for an episode that will eventually win an Emmy award it is not surprising that your underlying motives could be questioned even if it wasn't the motive behind your criticism.

I have never been and am not homophobic. I have been in gay relationships, or is being female different and somehow doesn’t count?

I criticized the episode on its merits. There was nothing ground-breaking in the relationship depicted. You mentioned the Emmys. If anything it felt like Emmy-bait.

I can call that out and say that it jarred with me without being called homophobic, surely?

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

There was nothing homophobic in your post. But, you opened that door with the classic disclaimer. I mean, ‘my best friend is (insert group as applicable)’ is pretty much a cliche.

The episode about two men loving each other and trying to eke out some normality and happiness in a effed up world didn’t work for you. So be it. It did for me and I don’t write male gay stories and my best friend isn’t gay. But then none of that has anything to do with Episode 3.

So my best friend, who I was in a relationship with through most of college and beyond, and her sexuality don’t exist? I get it now.

I suppose I was anticipating someone saying I was being homophobic and trying to head that off? My bad.

If it has been a stand-alone show, I might have been fine. But equally, do I have to like something just because it portrays gay love? I hope not.

Em

 

[eric_erosfan]

I have never been and am not homophobic. I have been in gay relationships, or is being female different and somehow doesn’t count?

I criticised the episode on its merits. There was nothing ground-breaking in the relationship depicted. You mentioned the Emmys. If anything it felt like Emmy-bait.

I can call that out and say that it jarred with me without being called homophobic, surely?

Em

It really is only because 9 out of 10 people are hailing the episode. And you are the 1 who is not. As I mentioned depictions of gay love are not my go to kind of drama. We have LGBTQ kids who are the opposite. They openly pan straight love storie just because the stories are not gay.

But for me as a former homophobe who prefers or maybe feels more comfortable with straight love stories, I was still wiping away tears during that episode. Maybe it was written more for old guys like me to show that deep love among gay men can still move my cold, dead heart.

 

[EmilyMiller]

It really is only because 9 out of 10 people are hailing the episode. And you are the 1 who is not. As I mentioned depictions of gay love are not my go to kind of drama. We have LGBTQ kids who are the opposite. They openly pan straight love storie just because the stories are not gay.

But for me as a former homophobe who prefers or maybe feels more comfortable with straight love stories, I was still wiping away tears during that episode. Maybe it was written more for old guys like me to show that deep love among gay men can still move my cold, dead heart.

That’s called projection, hun.

Em

 

[Raazor]

So my best friend, who I was in a relationship with through moat of college and beyond, and her sexuality don’t exist? I get it now.

I suppose I was anticipating someone saying I was being homophobic and trying to head that off? My bad.

If it has been a stand-alone show, I might have been fine. But equally, do I have to like something just because it portrays gay love? I hope not.

Em

You lost me on the first para.

The disclaimer was counter-productive. It revealed what was in your head, not what is in anyone elses.

The episode was about love and caring under extreme circumstances. Which was why it worked. It was ordinary (if that makes sense). As the viewer I was rooting for them, wanting them to work. Get some normality, some happiness amidst all the shit. I liked the two characters - Bill with his painful repression being slowly prised open, and Frank’s affectionate exasperation with Bill. As an episode it was a great change of pace, added depth to the series and I was bawling like a baby at the end. But that was just me. What others took from it, or not, is up to them.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You lost me on the first para.

The disclaimer was counter-productive. It revealed what was in your head, not what is in anyone elses.

The episode was about love and caring under extreme circumstances. Which was why it worked. It was ordinary (if that makes sense). As the viewer I was rooting for them, wanting them to work. Get some normality, some happiness amidst all the shit. I liked the two characters - Bill with his painful repression being slowly prised open, and Frank’s affectionate exasperation with Bill. As an episode it was a great change of pace, added depth to the series and I was bawling like a baby at the end. But that was just me. What others took from it, or not, is up to them.

So you liked the episode, I didn’t, ergo I’m a homophobe.

This is all based on stuff in your head, not mine.

Thanks for heterosplaining that to me.

Conversation over.

Em

 

[eric_erosfan]

So you liked the episode, I didn’t, ergo I’m a homophobe.

This is all based on stuff in your head, not mine.

Thanks for heterosplaining that to me.

Conversation over.

Em

Lol. I see internet discussion has not advanced much since USENET. Just hipper insults.

 

[Thefireflies]

Context is everything. At risk of jumping into something I shouldn’t, I’m going to because I think EmilyMiller’s first post of the thread makes it clear she’s critiquing the episode of the tv show and not the relationships portrayed within, and is also asking if other’s here thought the rave-reviews were justified or not, where Emily doesn’t think they are. Given the nature of the episode it’s understandable why Emily put in the disclaimer, because of exactly what has now transpired. But hey, this is the internet, we’re not new here, which is why people might put disclaimers in, because others are looking to pounce…

 

[EmilyMiller]

Context is everything. At risk of jumping into something I shouldn’t, I’m going to because I think EmilyMiller’s first post of the thread makes it clear she’s critiquing the episode of the tv show and not the relationships portrayed within, and is also asking if other’s here thought the rave-reviews were justified or not, where Emily doesn’t think they are. Given the nature of the episode it’s understandable why Emily put in the disclaimer, because of exactly what has now transpired. But hey, this is the internet, we’re not new here, which is why people might put disclaimers in, because others are looking to pounce…

Thank you for introducing a note of civility, sanity and common sense to this thread. It’s much needed.

Em

 

[eric_erosfan]

Thank you for introducing a note of civility, sanity and common sense to this thread. It’s much needed.

Em

Whatever helps you sleep better at night. You started a thread "Why does everyone like this gay episode, I hate it" I get it, really I do. I used to think the same way. But eventually you grow and realize that all love is God's love. No amount of writing out erotic fantasies on the internet for anonymous strangers to counter a repressed sexual life will change your mindset until you have a loved one that is living this life. This kind if episode is helpful to maybe change a few hearts and minds. Those that have not experienced it first hand. Or those that even today throw their own kids out of the house for experiencing this kind of love.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Whatever helps you sleep better at night. You started a thread "Why does everyone like this gay episode, I hate it" I get it, really I do. I used to think the same way. But eventually you grow and realize that all love is God's love. No amount of writing out erotic fantasies on the internet for anonymous strangers to counter a repressed sexual life will change your mindset until you have a loved one that is living this life. This kind if episode is helpful to maybe change a few hearts and minds. Those that have not experienced it first hand. Or those that even today throw their own kids out of the house for experiencing this kind of love.

Added to my ignore list, dude.

Em

 

[eric_erosfan]

Added to my ignore list, dude.

Em

Imagine being so fragile...

 

[LegoHead]

Imagine being so fragile...

You have problems, recreational anger being one of them, the other is the need to bully someone so long as you are part of the majority. Does it feel good?

As for Episode 3

It wasn't a good episode. It wasn't even a good love story. It's not even a good gay story.

Stereotypes and clichés
- You have 2 gay men who play the piano, sing, know their wines, one is an artist, and they recognize and cook 5-star cuisine. Who wrote this? A straight man with no gay friends who believes in the power of deus ex machina?

They rushed the episode.
- Bill, a gay man, catches Frank in a hole, who happens to be gay as well. Judging by Bill's reaction, it's the first person he's ever caught in that hole. It's the only hole on his property, by the way.
- Bill, who has been shown to be happy alone and has never been shown to miss any form of human contact, allows the first person he meets since the world all but ended into his house. This person also happens to be his soulmate. How fortuitous.
- Bill falls in love over a one-night stand.
- The love story, if you can call it a love story, is a series of poignant moments with none of the events that build up to those poignant moments. We, as the audience, are being asked to forgive the writers for having no time or ability to show the minutia of their relationship. Every moment of that relationship, even the "fight," equates to having a great birthday 365 days a year. Where is everything that leads up to those great birthdays? It's lazy writing.

Silly things
- Bill points his gun at Joel while they're eating. It wasn't funny. In-game Joel would have beaten Bill senseless, but this Joel has been neutered for the sake of boredom.
- Bill rushed out of his house wearing a gas mask while toting a shotgun right after the jackboots left town, looking like a kid pretending to be in the Special Forces.
- Bill defends his town against the only raiders his town has ever seen by standing in the middle of the street with a bolt action, scoped rifle at night, when he has a basement full of much better guns for that situation.
- Bill is shot while standing in the middle of the street, which is probably the most realistic moment in the show. Frank rushes him inside the house to give him aid. Bill says, "Don't worry about raiders; the fence will take care of the rest of them." How does he know that? If the remaining raiders couldn't get past his fence, then none of them were ever going to get past his fence in the first place. Why was he even out there, looking like a weekend warrior rather than the gun-collecting survivalist he was supposed to be?

Ron Swanson connection
- Nick Offerman played Ron Swanson, but Ron Swanson isn't Bill, but he was specifically cast for the role of Bill because of that connection. It's the social commentary equivalent of an exclamation point.

In the context of the show
- Episode 3 destroyed the pace of the series. Tess had just died. This was the moment to build on Joel and Ellie's relationship. Instead, we get 5 minutes of Joel and Ellie book-ending a completely different show set in the same universe. Imagine if you tuned into the Sopranos only to get 5 minutes of Tony Soprano, followed by 50 minutes of Tony's housekeeper, whom we'll never see again, followed by 5 minutes of Tony Soprano.
- Now, if they had followed the game, which they should have, you would have had a bitter Bill, who was still gay and missing his lover, being used as an example of what Joel could become without Tess. Bill is cynical, bitter, angry, and unhappy. That was the future Joel was facing without Tess. A future Ellie saves him from, thereby giving her even more meaning in the overall arc of the series.
- There was also an extremely important event in the Joel-Ellie-Bill chapter of the game: It was the first time Ellie proved herself to Joel. She impresses him by freeing him from Bill's snare trap while dodging the infected and popping the clutch to Bill's truck while calling out the location of the incoming infected so Joel and Bill can fight them. The game handled that chapter beautifully. We got to see the devastation the outbreak took on people's humanity while also sparking the initial light of Joel and Ellie's bond.
- Episode 3 wasn't about the show. It was about the showrunner's social views being put on a pedestal. To make things worse, it completely waters down the meaning of Ellie's own moment with Riley at the mall because once you've seen that rarely seen portrayal of same-sex love, the rest becomes expected. They didn't even handle Ellie's episode well.

Why is this episode being showered with praise?
You can be a completely normal person and see that the woke side of the social spectrum is going nuts over this show for a few reasons:
1) It's about gay men, not gay women, and showing 2 women in love is safer than showing 2 men. And right now men are all the rage, especially when they're women.
2) One of them is being played by Nick Offerman, who played Ron Swanson, and by the transitive property of equality, people are losing their shit.
3) With so few portrayals, even bad portrayals, of male homosexual relationships on TV, there's no wonder a small but explicitly loud portion of the internet is calling it the best single episode in TV history, which it wasn't.

What would have been great?
If they had shown Bill's game story, then followed with a miniseries explaining how Bill came to be Bill.

So, anyone who cares to can give me a mouthful of their hate-filled language, but they know nothing about me, and they know nothing about EmillyMiller, but from high up on their pedestals, they sure think they do.

Edit: Corrected many moments that I swapped Bill's and Frank's name.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You have problems, recreational anger being one of them, the other is the need to bully someone so long as you are part of the majority. Does it feel good?

As for Episode 3

It wasn't a good episode. It wasn't even a good love story. It's not even a good gay story.

Stereotypes and clichés
- You have 2 gay men who play the piano, sing, know their wines, one is an artist, and they recognize and cook 5-star cuisine. Who wrote this? A straight man with no gay friends who believes in the power of deus ex machina?

They rushed the episode.
- Frank, a gay man, catches Bill in a hole, who happens to be gay as well. Judging by Frank's reaction, it's the first person he's ever caught in that hole. It's the only hole on his property, by the way.
- Bill, who has been shown to be happy alone and has never been shown to miss any form of human contact, allows the first person he meets since the world all but ended into his house. This person also happens to be his soulmate. How fortuitous.
- Bill falls in love over a one-night stand.
- The love story, if you can call it a love story, is a series of poignant moments with none of the events that build up to those poignant moments. We, as the audience, are being asked to forgive the writers for having no time or ability to show the minutia of their relationship. Every moment of that relationship, even the "fight," equates to having a great birthday 365 days a year. Where is everything that leads up to those great birthdays? It's lazy writing.

Silly things
- Bill points his gun at Joel while they're eating. It wasn't funny. In-game Joel would have beaten Bill senseless, but this Joel has been neutered for the sake of boredom.
- Bill rushed out of his house wearing a gas mask while toting a shotgun right after the jackboots left town, looking like a kid pretending to be in the Special Forces.
- Bill defends his town against the only raiders his town has ever seen by standing in the middle of the street with a bolt action, scoped rifle at night, when he has a basement full of much better guns for that situation.
- Bill is shot while standing in the middle of the street, which is probably the most realistic moment in the show. Frank rushes him inside the house to give him aid. Bill says, "Don't worry about raiders; the fence will take care of the rest of them." How does he know that? If the remaining raiders couldn't get past his fence, then none of them were ever going to get past his fence in the first place. Why was he even out there, looking like a weekend warrior rather than the gun-collecting survivalist he was supposed to be?

Ron Swanson connection
- Nick Offerman played Ron Swanson, but Ron Swanson isn't Frank, but he was specifically cast for the role of Frank because of that connection. It's the social commentary equivalent of an exclamation point.

In the context of the show
- Episode 3 destroyed the pace of the series. Tess had just died. This was the moment to build on Joel and Ellie's relationship. Instead, we get five minutes of Joel and Ellie book-ending a completely different show set in the same universe. Imagine if you tuned into the Sopranos only to get 5 minutes of Tony Soprano, followed by 50 minutes of Tony's housekeeper, whom we'll never see again, followed by 5 minutes of Tony Soprano.
- Now, if they had followed the game, which they should have, you would have had a bitter Bill, who was still gay and missing his lover, being used as an example of what Joel could become without Tess. Bill is cynical, bitter, angry, and unhappy. That was the future Joel was facing without Tess. A future Ellie saves him from, thereby giving her even more meaning in the overall arc of the series.
- There was also an extremely important event in the Joel-Ellie-Bill chapter of the game: It was the first time Ellie proved herself to Joel. She impresses him by freeing him from Bill's snare trap while dodging the infected and popping the clutch to Bill's truck while calling out the location of the incoming infected so Joel and Bill can fight them. The game handled that chapter beautifully. We got to see the devastation the outbreak took on people's humanity while also sparking the initial light of Joel and Ellie's bond.
- Episode 3 wasn't about the show. It was about the showrunner's social views being put on a pedestal. To make things worse, it completely waters down the meaning of Ellie's own moment with Riley at the mall because once you've seen that rarely seen portrayal of same-sex love, the rest becomes expected. They didn't even handle Ellie's episode well.

Why is this episode being showered with praise?
You can be a completely normal person and see that the woke side of the social spectrum is going nuts over this show for a few reasons:
1) It's about gay men, not gay women, and showing 2 women in love safer than 2 men. And right now men are all the rage, especially when they're women.
2) One of them is being played by Nick Offerman, who played Ron Swanson, and by the transitive property of equality, people are losing their shit.
3) With so few portrayals, even bad portrayals, of male homosexual relationships on TV, there's no wonder a small but explicitly loud portion of the internet is calling it the best single episode in TV history, which it wasn't.

What would have been great?
If they had shown Bill's game story, then followed with a miniseries explaining how Bill came to be Bill.

So, anyone who cares to can give me a mouthful of their hate-filled language, but they know nothing about me, and they know nothing about EmillyMiller, but from high up on their pedestals, they sure think they do.

You homophobic scum! You don’t deserve to live.

—

Sorry, I have these seizures sometimes, it’s over now.

Ellie and Riley wasn’t perfect, but was at least less tropey and kinda sweet / semi-believable. Sorry, that’s obviously an opinion that only a lipstick lesbian could hold.

I did like one thing about Ep. 03. The line about the government really being Nazis now. That made me laugh.

One thing is true about TLOS. It’s rabidly anti-gay itself as I tend to forget my same-sex side whenever Pedro is on screen.

Em

 

[eric_erosfan]

You have problems, recreational anger being one of them, the other is the need to bully someone so long as you are part of the majority. Does it feel good?

As for Episode 3

It wasn't a good episode. It wasn't even a good love story. It's not even a good gay story.

Stereotypes and clichés
- You have 2 gay men who play the piano, sing, know their wines, one is an artist, and they recognize and cook 5-star cuisine. Who wrote this? A straight man with no gay friends who believes in the power of deus ex machina?

They rushed the episode.
- Bill, a gay man, catches Frank in a hole, who happens to be gay as well. Judging by Bill's reaction, it's the first person he's ever caught in that hole. It's the only hole on his property, by the way.
- Bill, who has been shown to be happy alone and has never been shown to miss any form of human contact, allows the first person he meets since the world all but ended into his house. This person also happens to be his soulmate. How fortuitous.
- Bill falls in love over a one-night stand.
- The love story, if you can call it a love story, is a series of poignant moments with none of the events that build up to those poignant moments. We, as the audience, are being asked to forgive the writers for having no time or ability to show the minutia of their relationship. Every moment of that relationship, even the "fight," equates to having a great birthday 365 days a year. Where is everything that leads up to those great birthdays? It's lazy writing.

Silly things
- Bill points his gun at Joel while they're eating. It wasn't funny. In-game Joel would have beaten Bill senseless, but this Joel has been neutered for the sake of boredom.
- Bill rushed out of his house wearing a gas mask while toting a shotgun right after the jackboots left town, looking like a kid pretending to be in the Special Forces.
- Bill defends his town against the only raiders his town has ever seen by standing in the middle of the street with a bolt action, scoped rifle at night, when he has a basement full of much better guns for that situation.
- Bill is shot while standing in the middle of the street, which is probably the most realistic moment in the show. Frank rushes him inside the house to give him aid. Bill says, "Don't worry about raiders; the fence will take care of the rest of them." How does he know that? If the remaining raiders couldn't get past his fence, then none of them were ever going to get past his fence in the first place. Why was he even out there, looking like a weekend warrior rather than the gun-collecting survivalist he was supposed to be?

Ron Swanson connection
- Nick Offerman played Ron Swanson, but Ron Swanson isn't Bill, but he was specifically cast for the role of Bill because of that connection. It's the social commentary equivalent of an exclamation point.

In the context of the show
- Episode 3 destroyed the pace of the series. Tess had just died. This was the moment to build on Joel and Ellie's relationship. Instead, we get 5 minutes of Joel and Ellie book-ending a completely different show set in the same universe. Imagine if you tuned into the Sopranos only to get 5 minutes of Tony Soprano, followed by 50 minutes of Tony's housekeeper, whom we'll never see again, followed by 5 minutes of Tony Soprano.
- Now, if they had followed the game, which they should have, you would have had a bitter Bill, who was still gay and missing his lover, being used as an example of what Joel could become without Tess. Bill is cynical, bitter, angry, and unhappy. That was the future Joel was facing without Tess. A future Ellie saves him from, thereby giving her even more meaning in the overall arc of the series.
- There was also an extremely important event in the Joel-Ellie-Bill chapter of the game: It was the first time Ellie proved herself to Joel. She impresses him by freeing him from Bill's snare trap while dodging the infected and popping the clutch to Bill's truck while calling out the location of the incoming infected so Joel and Bill can fight them. The game handled that chapter beautifully. We got to see the devastation the outbreak took on people's humanity while also sparking the initial light of Joel and Ellie's bond.
- Episode 3 wasn't about the show. It was about the showrunner's social views being put on a pedestal. To make things worse, it completely waters down the meaning of Ellie's own moment with Riley at the mall because once you've seen that rarely seen portrayal of same-sex love, the rest becomes expected. They didn't even handle Ellie's episode well.

Why is this episode being showered with praise?
You can be a completely normal person and see that the woke side of the social spectrum is going nuts over this show for a few reasons:
1) It's about gay men, not gay women, and showing 2 women in love is safer than showing 2 men. And right now men are all the rage, especially when they're women.
2) One of them is being played by Nick Offerman, who played Ron Swanson, and by the transitive property of equality, people are losing their shit.
3) With so few portrayals, even bad portrayals, of male homosexual relationships on TV, there's no wonder a small but explicitly loud portion of the internet is calling it the best single episode in TV history, which it wasn't.

What would have been great?
If they had shown Bill's game story, then followed with a miniseries explaining how Bill came to be Bill.

So, anyone who cares to can give me a mouthful of their hate-filled language, but they know nothing about me, and they know nothing about EmillyMiller, but from high up on their pedestals, they sure think they do.

Edit: Corrected many moments that I swapped Bill's and Frank's name.

I get it dude. You hate LGBTQ stories becoming mainstream. That used to be me. I get it. But I know these people now and i have no time for bigots anymore. Have a miserable life as I have no doubt you will.

 

[LegoHead]

I get it dude. You hate LGBTQ stories becoming mainstream. That used to be me. I get it. But I know these people now and i have no time for bigots anymore. Have a miserable life as I have no doubt you will.

You can't refute anything in my critique, so you attack me personally, and I'm the one who is supposed to have a miserable life?

You also failed to point out that I wanted to see Bill's in-game story, where he was gay, and I'm more than willing to see a miniseries about him and how he came to be the cynical, bitter bastard that he is and why? Because Bill was a great character.

Applaud yourself. Your willingness to ignore the facts is thought provoking.

 

[EmilyMiller]

You can't refute anything in my critique, so you attack me personally, and I'm the one who is supposed to have a miserable life?

You seem like a smart and reasonable person. My suggestion? Use the Ignore button. Life is short and to be enjoyed.

Em

 

[eric_erosfan]

You seem like a smart and reasonable person. My suggestion? Use the Ignore button. Life is short and to be enjoyed.

Em

Yes please do. Follow the example of your fellow sexually repressed, air-headed conservative.

 

[LegoHead]

Ellie and Riley wasn’t perfect, but was at least less tropey and kinda sweet / semi-believable. Sorry, that’s obviously an opinion that only a lipstick lesbian could hold.

Em

The episode lacked the sweetness and innocence of the DLC as swell as the desperation that drove Ellie to search a mall and brave the infected in order to save Joel. I was hoping for the brick throwing, the mask changing, the Wizard of Oz quoting and the magic eightball in the shape of a skull.

I had high hopes for this show, but it turned out to be an okay show rather than a great one.

You seem like a smart and reasonable person. My suggestion? Use the Ignore button. Life is short and to be enjoyed.

Em

Luckily, I don't have to ignore him. He's stated that he's going to ignore me, unless he's a liar, in which case I'll ignore him. I have no time for liars.

 

[EmilyMiller]

The episode lacked the sweetness and innocence of the DLC as swell as the desperation that drove Ellie to search a mall and brave the infected in order to save Joel. I was hoping for the brick throwing, the mask changing, the Wizard of Oz quoting and the magic eightball in the shape of a skull.

I had high hopes for this show, but it turned out to be an okay show rather than a great one.



Luckily, I don't have to ignore him. He's stated that he's going to ignore me, unless he's a liar, in which case I'll ignore him. I have no time for liars.

I never played the game, but from what I hear, the narrative was stronger.

The guy is either an out and out troll, or has serious issues, or both.

Most people here are nice - if cantankerous counts as nice?

Em

 

[eric_erosfan]

I never played the game, but from what I hear, the narrative was stronger.

The guy is either an out and out troll, or has serious issues, or both.

Most people here are nice - if cantankerous counts as nice?

Em

If you are going to live life as a social conservative at least have the decency to live it in all aspects of your life and spare the world of your repressed sexual fantasies. This site wasn't started as an outlet for hypocrites to live the depraved life that they avoid irl.

 

[LegoHead]

I never played the game, but from what I hear, the narrative was stronger.

Em

Much stronger.

 

[Thefireflies]

As for Episode 3...

I agree with many of your points (see previous posts) but I do feel Druckman could have had his cake and eat it too if they simply tweaked a few things here and there. Surprisingly, but not that surprisingly, the sometimes, even often, brilliant writer lost sight of the story. For me it would have been a longer slower more believable romance between Bill and Frank, because it’s not in Bill’s nature to trust so quick, even if he’s desperate for human intimacy, plus develop trust between Bill and Joel in a battle between infected, including at least one bloater (in the school gym). AND I’d have Bill and Joel teach each other something. Joel could learn pipe bombs and how to store a car battery from Bill (midway though the episode) and Bill could perhaps learn something like…how to craft a 1 time use shiv from Joel (good ancient dancing banana emoji dragged up from the ancient history department)

 

[LegoHead]

I agree with many of your points (see previous posts) but I do feel Druckman could have had his cake and eat it too if they simply tweaked a few things here and there. Surprisingly, but not that surprisingly, the sometimes, even often, brilliant writer lost sight of the story. For me it would have been a longer slower more believable romance between Bill and Frank, because it’s not in Bill’s nature to trust so quick, even if he’s desperate for human intimacy, plus develop trust between Bill and Joel in a battle between infected, including at least one bloater (in the school gym). AND I’d have Bill and Joel teach each other something. Joel could learn pipe bombs and how to store a car battery from Bill (midway though the episode) and Bill could perhaps learn something like…how to craft a 1 time use shiv from Joel (good ancient dancing banana emoji dragged up from the ancient history department)

Neil Druckman is credited as the writer, but The Last of Us was co-created by Bruce Straley, who was the game's director, and collaborator. Several people wrote The Last of Us, with many of Druckman's ideas being tossed out, mainly his revenge plot, and Druckman is really into revenge stories, which he, his co-writer and writing team included in Part 2 once Straley left the game.

The series is showing a weakness in Druckman's writing when he doesn't have equally powerful partners there to influence the outcome of the product. The show's intense action is watered down, his ability to create a bond between Joel and Ellie is weak, the travel is boring, and so far the personal stories have only been included just to fill time.

The Last of Us made him, but it was a team effort with the majority of the power belonging to other people. The longer he's in charge, the weaker the product will become.