The most important thing you need to know about the voter ID issue

[KingOrfeo]

Revelation 13:16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
Revelation 13:17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

Good point! When we issue the national ID card, every card's number should include "666" somewhere. And the number should also correspond to your barcode-tattoo.

 

[KRCummings]

Good point! When we issue the national ID card, every card's number should include "666" somewhere. And the number should also correspond to your barcode-tattoo.

I don't put a whole lot of stock in Revelation and like Nostradumbass it can be twisted to mean almost anything but it is interesting that we will almost certainly come to a point sometime in the future when everyone will need a code to buy and sell. Maybe not in our lifetimes but it's bound to happen.

 

[KingOrfeo]

BTW, here's Hasen's Election Law Blog.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I don't put a whole lot of stock in Revelation and like Nostradumbass it can be twisted to mean almost anything but it is interesting that we will almost certainly come to a point sometime in the future when everyone will need a code to buy and sell. Maybe not in our lifetimes but it's bound to happen.

I once heard the late F. Lee Bailey, the famous criminal defense lawyer, give a talk at the University of Florida. He said that in his experience there are three kinds of violent criminals: 1) Careerists, business criminals who kill for money. 2) Crazies. 3) Ordinarily law-abiding people who lost their tempers. Those in category 3) can be safely released from prison after their time, they probably won't do anything bad ever again. For 2) he recommended execution, actually. As for 1) -- they have no consciences, or else consciences appropriate to their profession, don't rat on your friends, etc. And fear of punishment by the law does not deter them, they accept it as a professional risk. The only way he could see to deter them would be to ban cash, using credit cards for all transactions. Because credit cards leave a paper trail, and criminals can't afford that.

 

[KRCummings]

I once heard the late F. Lee Bailey, the famous criminal defense lawyer, give a talk at the University of Florida. He said that in his experience there are three kinds of violent criminals: 1) Careerists, business criminals who kill for money. 2) Crazies. 3) Ordinarily law-abiding people who lost their tempers. Those in category 3) can be safely released from prison after their time, they probably won't do anything bad ever again. For 2) he recommended execution, actually. As for 1) -- they have no consciences, or else consciences appropriate to their profession, don't rat on your friends, etc. And fear of punishment by the law does not deter them, they accept it as a professional risk. The only way he could see to deter them would be to ban cash, using credit cards for all transactions. Because credit cards leave a paper trail, and criminals can't afford that.

It's true. The biggest fear of any drug dealer or thief is that cash will no longer be used. Both professions require large amounts of untraceable cash. Small time dealers could get away with credit cards the way hookers do but wholesalers and thieves need the cash.

 

[pete]

It's true. The biggest fear of any drug dealer or thief is that cash will no longer be used. Both professions require large amounts of untraceable cash. Small time dealers could get away with credit cards the way hookers do but wholesalers and thieves need the cash.

wait, hookers take credit cards?

i don't think i want to know where you swipe...

 

[KRCummings]

wait, hookers take credit cards?

i don't think i want to know where you swipe...

Of course they do. They can set up a merchant account for "entertainment" or whatever. As long as it doesn't say "Prostitute" then nobody can say anything about it.
Small time dealers can do the same but if a wholesaler were to try they'd quickly be explaining why they're conducting transactions in the hundreds of thousands or millions if they could even do that in the first place.

 

[cjh]

Of course they do. They can set up a merchant account for "entertainment" or whatever. As long as it doesn't say "Prostitute" then nobody can say anything about it.
Small time dealers can do the same but if a wholesaler were to try they'd quickly be explaining why they're conducting transactions in the hundreds of thousands or millions if they could even do that in the first place.

i have a friend who is the federal public defender around here.

he said about 10 percent of his clients own auto detail shops.

makes all the sense in the world. cash business. and it requires you to get into the car trunk where you can easily access caches of cash and drugs.

 

[KingOrfeo]

More from Hasen's book:

Legal scholar Cass Sunstein noticed a correlation, even in academic writing, about the legal issues in Bush v. Gore, between the writer's political beliefs and his or her views of election law: liberals analyzing the case tended to attack the decision and conservatives tended to support it. Sunstein attributed this not to conscious bias but to psychological factors that lead us to reach conclusions in line with our preexisting beliefs.

Objectivity is a point I constantly struggle with as I analyze disputes in the Voting Wars. Readers of this book need to be self-reflective, too. I suspect that many who read this book come in as either skeptical of [Ohio Secretary of State Jennifer] Brunner's motives (because she's a Democrat) or skeptical of [Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth] Blackwell's motives (because he's a Republican). And I suspect that this skepticism correlates very nicely with the reader's own politics. I hope that by the time you finish this chapter [Chapter 4, "Who Counts?"], you will be more suspicious of the motives of both Democratic and Republican election officials.

Later in the same chapter, discussing the 2008 case of Republican Party of Ohio v. Brunner (Brunner refused to share with local election officials a file of "mismatch information," about mismatches between data in individual voters' records in the database of the voter registration system and their records in the database of the motor vehicle authority, because, in Hasen's words, "she trusted neither the information nor the officials," for pretty good reasons which he sets out; the Ohio GOP sued to make her; the HAVA required her to collect the mismatch information but was ambiguous as to what she was required to do with it, and also ambiguous as to whether any private party had the right to sue over the dispute):

The debate in the [federal] Sixth Circuit [Court] mirrored the public debate on these issues. The Republican judges were worried about voter fraud and ruled in a way that would minimize that danger even if it meant disenfranchising some voters. The Democratic judges were skeptical of the voter fraud claims and voted against ordering Brunner to take steps that could disenfranchise voters, even if it raised the potential for fraud by new voters.

So strong were these countervailing instincts that judges seemed to abandon their usual jurisprudential philosophies. Generally speaking, conservative judges are much more hesitant than liberal judges to read federal statutes expansively so as to give individuals a right to sue for their violation -- what lawyers call a "private right of action." (In 2001, as a private lawyer, [conservative 6th Circuit Judge Jeffrey] Sutton had argued in the United States Supreme Court against an expansive reading of the "private right of action" doctrine.) Liberals are much more willing to interpret statutes expansively, consistent with their overall purposes; conservatives tend to favor narrower more "textual" readings that adhere to what they perceive as the "plain meaning" of the statute.

In Ohio Republican Party v. Brunner, however, the Republican judges read the Help America Vote Act broadly to create a private right of action and interpreted its matching provision well beyond the plain meaning of the text, which on its face required no more than that the chief elections office engage in a matching exercise. The Democratic judges read the act narrowly, contending that Republicans had no right to sue, and read the statute in a narrow, textual way. The subtle psychological forces that Cass Sunstein identified in Bush v. Gore seemed to be at work once again.

The Brunner case went up to the SCOTUS, which, in a rare unanimous opinion, reversed the 6th Circuit and ruled that there was no private right of action here.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Mm-Mm, That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
http://moonbattery.com/Melowese-Richardson.jpg
That's what I voted for!
6 TIMES!

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I um like um when half breed kemo sabe AJ make um fun of old black woman voting um six times. He use um old black woman picture and um mocking speech words all time for um big hipster snark joke whenever um run out of mental wampum.

Make um me wanna make fun of paleface injun style making um fun of his injun heritage. We make um heap big laugh at um hipster redface racism. Then um we sit round big pow wow with um peace pipe filled with wow wow and drink um same firewater that help um invading paleface destroy and rape and pillage his um own people.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT_me0hk7lbNHm2NZbRviOdqnMg7MXgDNuPZHrcrqZB2Z-RXh4lKw

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcdqujN5cA1r35bc7o1_500.jpg

http://www.urbanoutfitters.co.uk/content/ebiz/urbanoutfitters/invt/5756467052000/5756467052000_Assort_l1.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ed97b0db21208664d55fe04e031ff406/tumblr_mfrr5iPKcv1rn5d4oo1_500.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdk3rkcqV01rjs517o1_500.jpg

http://colorlines.com/archival_images/victoria-secret-american-native-indian-headdress.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltwqijDUsP1qbujnro1_500.jpg

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lya6c92yKW1qjnk5k.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6072/6035154236_d2b95cf7b7_b.jpg

http://streetbonersandtvcarnage.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/tumblr_lm939ttwo31qzu6blo1_1280.jpg

Nothing like um paleface woman using um cultural appropriation to make um what was ugly on um inferior races more beautiful under um eyes of The Great Mystery. Injun AJ would um agree with me.

Well, maybe half of um would.

a-WOO-WOO-WOO-WOO-WOO-WOO

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz15epjt511r60h5mo1_500.jpg
My, my, my...

I hate the smell of RACSIM in the morning!

 

[IrezumiKiss]

http://media.tumblr.com/d3f49e602c292eb45c438aa623856faa/tumblr_inline_mq2hkeQgfJ1qz4rgp.gif

My, my, my...

Look who's all SITUATIONALLY OUTRAGED WHEN HIS SHITTY SELF-SERVING SNARK IS THROWN BACK IN HIS FACE in the morning!

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18usigkxu73usgif/original.gif

http://media.tumblr.com/8ea67f25abea2f84a5a34caa144b89be/tumblr_inline_mjbvw6jNoc1qz4rgp.gif

http://awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ItsTrueTho.gif

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

http://streetbonersandtvcarnage.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/tumblr_lm939ttwo31qzu6blo1_1280.jpg

Honest Injun?!

 

[KingOrfeo]

It is certain that voter fraud in the sense of an impersonator or legally ineligible person casting a ballot is a nonproblem, and the rare instances where it happens are simply noise in the signal, their effect on the outcome unpredictable, and certainly those votes are not sought by either party despite conspiracy theories to the contrary, and requiring voter ID would fix nothing that's broke.

But I admit it is hard to answer the arguments that presenting ID when you vote just seems right, is done in many countries, you have to present ID to do a lot of other things so what's the big deal, etc., etc.

But the biggest problem with this nonissue is that it all diverts attention from what's really wrong with the American electoral system -- hyperfederalization, partisan administration, incompetent administration, irregularity of procedures and practices, underfunding and obsolete equipment, etc., etc. etc. The world's oldest existing republic after Switzlerland and San Marino should be able to do all of this right by now!

 

[unregistered]

 

[doctor_insanus]

http://scottwalkerwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/voter-fraud1.png

http://ouroregon.org/sites/ouroregon.org/files/fckeditor/image/BlockTheVote.jpg

http://www.newscorpse.com/Pix/FoxNews/foxnews-nevada-voter-fraud.jpg

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/ThaddeusMcCotter_IndictedStaffers.jpg

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Roxanne_Rubin.jpg

http://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2012/9/28/1348867211287-69133_436171266420771_1059942072_n.jpg

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/original.jpg

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/PA-GOP-without-Typo.jpg

See that? I went full Trysail on your asses.

 

[KingOrfeo]

This is fucking bullshit.

Have you understood anything you have read in this thread?!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Hasen devotes a whole chapter to "The Fraudulent Fraud Squad." Nothing coming from the Pub side on the voter-fraud issue in the past decade has been honest.

Except, perhaps, for this rare moment of candor:

What really motivates the Fraudulent Fraud Squad? [American Spectator journalist Matthew] Vadum, one of the squad's newest members, inadvertently revealed what underlay his attack on ACORN and related groups. Registering the poor to vote, he contended, is "un-American," like "giving burglary tools to criminals." It is profoundly anti-social and un-American to empower nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country -- which is exactly why Barack Obama zealously supports registering welfare recipients to vote.

In other words, we should once again make wealth a condition of voting. Apparently this is no longer the kind of odious idea one should keep to oneself.

Hasen's not making that up, either. Vadum's article.

 

[Liar]

She got five years in the slammer.

Well, I'll be damned. You have laws against voter fraud, and they work.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Who cares....it's not like we really get a say so in who's elected anyhow.

Fraud...no fraud....doesn't matter.

Mega bux will only back someone willing to play ball, and no one get's elected without mega bux. So mega bux get's who mega bux want......he who has the gold and all.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Who cares....it's not like we really get a say so in who's elected anyhow.

Fraud...no fraud....doesn't matter.

Mega bux will only back someone willing to play ball, and no one get's elected without mega bux. So mega bux get's who mega bux want......he who has the gold and all.

I'm for outlawing all paid campaign advertising. Let every TV station give every candidate an equal allotment of free air time, like in France. But that's another discussion, one having nothing to do with the elections offices.

 

[jeninflorida]

jesus, more derp from kingoftards

 

[jeninflorida]

obama loves slaves! he's busy turning the middle class into the new slave class


buying the election, one slave at a time!

Good point! When we issue the national ID card, every card's number should include "666" somewhere. And the number should also correspond to your barcode-tattoo.