The Notebook Thread

[butters]

Allen Ginsberg created something he called "American Sentences" that was an attempt to try and produce something like the effect of a Japanese haiku.

bookmarked for further reading, thankyou

 

[bogusagain]

Allen Ginsberg created something he called "American Sentences" that was an attempt to try and produce something like the effect of a Japanese haiku.

I'm not sure he was successful in that.

I forgot about American sentences, however butters post reminded me. As far as I can tell from what I have read (there are more to read), American sentences are ambiguous rather than multilayered. Maybe ambiguous is multilayered but I've got to be convinced. Still, it makes for some interesting and humourous sentences.

 

[Angeline]

M and I spent yesterday at the Bloedel Reserve. It was a beautiful day--quiet (despite the busload of middle-school kids who mostly behaved well), and we got a good look at a hooded merganser and her brood at the pond in front of the Bloedel residence.

I asked M to take a picture of the Zen garden, in front of the guest house, which is where Theodore Roethke died (it was at one point a swimming pool; he drowned).

I do love Zen gardens, the little pseudo-pools they rake about rocks. They are, in their way, quite as lovely as the most elaborate English garden.

Eagleyez' dad is a docent there. Did you by any chance meet a garrulous old Irishman? Dressed to the nines? (His dad is a snappy dresser.)

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Paul Nelson's site (where Tz found the article on American Sentences) is very intersting, well worth exploring.

 

[Tzara]

The National Gallery in London juxtaposed Francis Bacon's Pope with Velasquez's Pope Innocent X. There was just no competition, every weakness in Bacon's painting ability was exposed. I almost felt sorry for the Bacon but couldn't quite bring myself to be sorry.

That said, contemporary art has a different function to traditional art, though I haven't quite articulated an hypothesis yet. To me Dieter Roth is one of the greats of 20t century art, though isn't that well known because he shunned the commercial art world for the most part.

You know, I remembered Dieter Roth (as Dieter Rot) from a concrete poetry anthology I have from probably forty years ago.

He has eleven pages in it, which is pretty good representation (the whole text is perhaps 330 pages).

Weird. Interesting, but weird.

 

[Tzara]

I'm glad to see there are others here who have no difficulty in elevating a Renoir over a Lichtenstein, or a Velázquez over a Bacon. I realize it isn't really fair to compare them, but if a museum insists on doing so, I think the difference is glaringly, painfully obvious.

Y'know, theognis, the thing that really interested me about this is that I was quite surprised at my reaction to the Lichtenstein and Renoir being hung together. I like modern art, almost to the point that the more modern the better.

That's what made that exhibit so interesting to me. It made me rethink how I felt about older art, more than making me devalue modern art. I mean, oh baby, there is a shitload of stuff you (meaning I) have not carefully looked at that is big time wow evoking art. And you haven't even thought much about it, dimwit!

One of the pleasures of getting older is getting over one's youthful, stupid prejudices. Another is that you have whole new worlds of things to learn about.

So I'm, like, really happy.




So, like, if you're ever in London, see the Wilton diptych. And the "Bird in the Air Pump." And...

 

[Tzara]

I forgot about American sentences, however butters post reminded me. As far as I can tell from what I have read (there are more to read), American sentences are ambiguous rather than multilayered. Maybe ambiguous is multilayered but I've got to be convinced. Still, it makes for some interesting and humourous sentences.

I don't know that they are intended to be quite the same kind of thing as a Japanese haiku. I think they're meant to approach that.

And remember that we Americans are rather clueless and blunt. So if Ginsberg's lines don't quite meet the Asian standard, you can write that off as American fumbleness. We can't quite do high culture right.

 

[Tzara]

Eagleyez' dad is a docent there. Did you by any chance meet a garrulous old Irishman? Dressed to the nines? (His dad is a snappy dresser.)

I think every docent we met was female. But I can understand why he might volunteer there. If I lived on Bainbridge or in Poulsbo, I might volunteer myself.

It's a lovely property.

 

[theognis]

Y'know, theognis, the thing that really interested me about this is that I was quite surprised at my reaction to the Lichtenstein and Renoir being hung together. I like modern art, almost to the point that the more modern the better.

That's what made that exhibit so interesting to me. It made me rethink how I felt about older art, more than making me devalue modern art. I mean, oh baby, there is a shitload of stuff you (meaning I) have not carefully looked at that is big time wow evoking art. And you haven't even thought much about it, dimwit!

One of the pleasures of getting older is getting over one's youthful, stupid prejudices. Another is that you have whole new worlds of things to learn about.

So I'm, like, really happy.





So, like, if you're ever in London, see the Wilton diptych. And the "Bird in the Air Pump." And...

I understand, Tzara, even the part about the pleasures of getting older, except I feel compelled to say there comes a point where you learn, as you continue along the path of getting older, that it is no longer a pleasurable journey, despite its rewards.

I almost decided to delete this response, because it is such a buzz kill.

 

[Tzara]

I understand, Tzara, even the part about the pleasures of getting older, except I feel compelled to say there comes a point where you learn, as you continue along the path of getting older, that it is no longer a pleasurable journey, despite its rewards.

I almost decided to delete this response, because it is such a buzz kill.

No buzz kill, dude. My mother is going to be 85 this year, and she is very unhappy about it. My mother-in-law is going to be 94. Both of them have limited mobility, though the MIL basically walks like a champ and my mom is pretty limber, given a walker.

But, yeah, I understand your point. I think.

Or not. I had some long prepared response here, but then I thought it might be better to ask you what you meant.

Your ball. Your court. I promise to be respectful.

Just look out for my backhand.

 

[Tzara]

06/14/2013

Posted a bit late. I know.

Port Angeles, WA.

There are actually two bookstores here. At least two. And they're pretty good sized, though one has (as best I can tell) no poetry section.

The other has a really good poetry section (http://www.portbooknews.com/). If you are ever in Port Angeles, WA, please go here.

Port Angeles, from a literary standpoint, is the (I guess) literary home of the late Raymond Carver--genius short story writer and poet. His widow, genius poet Tess Gallagher, still lives here, was born here.

We got on the ferry and headed north to Victoria, BC, the capital city of British Columbia.

Worth the trip, people, if you ever get up this way.

 

[greenmountaineer]

No buzz kill, dude. My mother is going to be 85 this year, and she is very unhappy about it. My mother-in-law is going to be 94. Both of them have limited mobility, though the MIL basically walks like a champ and my mom is pretty limber, given a walker.

But, yeah, I understand your point. I think.

Or not. I had some long prepared response here, but then I thought it might be better to ask you what you meant.

Your ball. Your court. I promise to be respectful.

Just look out for my backhand.

Mind if I crash your tennis party? My wife, daughter, and I have been living next door to my 90 year old mother who can barely walk, has a narcissist borderline personality disorder, and is in the early stages of dementia. Daughter fortunately goes to college in two months.

Gonna write a poem about my MIL some day, which gets me back on point. Thanks for coming up with the weekly challenge. It added discipline to my writing and also forced me to read more of other works when my muse was away somewhere. For example, I happened upon a poem by Philip Larkin. I was intrigued about how he used sentence structure and near rhyme in it, so I decided to imitate the piece. Is it a good poem? I probably won't think so when I look back at it in a few months(the best time IMO to judge one's own poetry), but it was another dimension of learning how to write better.

 

[Angeline]

Mind if I crash your tennis party? My wife, daughter, and I have been living next door to my 90 year old mother who can barely walk, has a narcissist borderline personality disorder, and is in the early stages of dementia. Daughter fortunately goes to college in two months.

Gonna write a poem about my MIL some day, which gets me back on point. Thanks for coming up with the weekly challenge. It added discipline to my writing and also forced me to read more of other works when my muse was away somewhere. For example, I happened upon a poem by Philip Larkin. I was intrigued about how he used sentence structure and near rhyme in it, so I decided to imitate the piece. Is it a good poem? I probably won't think so when I look back at it in a few months(the best time IMO to judge one's own poetry), but it was another dimension of learning how to write better.

I'll be interested if you revisit your opinion of the poem in a few months. I did not read it with the Larkin poem in mind (you told me about that later), and I think it's a) better than you realize; and b) doesn't sound especially derivative. I did notice the near rhyme, which I like very much--at first I thought you might be writing some form I just didn't recognize. Then again I'm no authority or Larkin and would not recognize his style right off. Maybe Tess or one of the other poets here who is more familiar with his poems will comment.

And yeah you're right about the two-month mark. Any rereads before then will make me think my poem is either really wonderful or really terrible. Not enough distance.

 

[theognis]

No buzz kill, dude. My mother is going to be 85 this year, and she is very unhappy about it. My mother-in-law is going to be 94. Both of them have limited mobility, though the MIL basically walks like a champ and my mom is pretty limber, given a walker.

But, yeah, I understand your point. I think.

Or not. I had some long prepared response here, but then I thought it might be better to ask you what you meant.

Your ball. Your court. I promise to be respectful.

Just look out for my backhand.

Well, I'll just say as I've gotten older I've come to realize I led a very interesting, exciting life at one time, especially when I was in my twenties and in the military, and the life I lead now pales by comparison. I didn't fully appreciate how interesting and exciting my life once was until it was no longer so interesting and exciting; until it became what most people would call normal, I guess.

I'm sure you're familiar with this Thoreau quote:

“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.”

I think quiet desperation sets in with most of us at some point, but not usually while we're young. I remember very well the feeling of invincibility, and I sure miss that feeling, even if it was never justified.

 

[Tzara]

Mind if I crash your tennis party? My wife, daughter, and I have been living next door to my 90 year old mother who can barely walk, has a narcissist borderline personality disorder, and is in the early stages of dementia. Daughter fortunately goes to college in two months.

Gonna write a poem about my MIL some day, which gets me back on point. Thanks for coming up with the weekly challenge. It added discipline to my writing and also forced me to read more of other works when my muse was away somewhere. For example, I happened upon a poem by Philip Larkin. I was intrigued about how he used sentence structure and near rhyme in it, so I decided to imitate the piece. Is it a good poem? I probably won't think so when I look back at it in a few months(the best time IMO to judge one's own poetry), but it was another dimension of learning how to write better.

This thread wasn't meant to be my party, but rather a place where people could, as you just have, leave their thoughts.

So, um, well done.

Just as an aside, I try to write imitative poems all the time. I mean, if I can pretend to be Yeats or James Wright, maybe I'll learn a thing or two about poetry. Or maybe not.

Or maybe I didn't really understand what worked for them.

I think about writing poetry as being like golf. I like it, but if I'm fated to be no better than a +20 handicap, so be it--I'm out walking in the sun and having a good time.

If I lose a few balls in the underbrush, well, that's the cost of playing the game.

 

[Tzara]

Well, I'll just say as I've gotten older I've come to realize I led a very interesting, exciting life at one time, especially when I was in my twenties and in the military, and the life I lead now pales by comparison. I didn't fully appreciate how interesting and exciting my life once was until it was no longer so interesting and exciting; until it became what most people would call normal, I guess.

I'm sure you're familiar with this Thoreau quote:

“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.”

I think quiet desperation sets in with most of us at some point, but not usually while we're young. I remember very well the feeling of invincibility, and I sure miss that feeling, even if it was never justified.

Your post, theognis, made me a bit sad. I think because you seem to feel that at least some aspects of life have passed you by.

I'm not young. There are a lot of things I did/could do that aren't really options for me anymore. But, on the other hand, I am much, much more knowledgeable
about life and art than I was even a few years ago. I am happier and more settled in my home life. I know more about my self and who I think I am.

Yeah, I can't do some things I could do twenty years ago, but I am not who I was twenty years ago. I guess I'm just very, very happy with my life the way it is right now.

And I guess I have to acknowledge that that may not be the case for everyone.

 

[theognis]

Your post, theognis, made me a bit sad. I think because you seem to feel that at least some aspects of life have passed you by.

I'm not young. There are a lot of things I did/could do that aren't really options for me anymore. But, on the other hand, I am much, much more knowledgeable
about life and art than I was even a few years ago. I am happier and more settled in my home life. I know more about my self and who I think I am.

Yeah, I can't do some things I could do twenty years ago, but I am not who I was twenty years ago. I guess I'm just very, very happy with my life the way it is right now.

And I guess I have to acknowledge that that may not be the case for everyone.

Your post made me happy for you, Tzara. It's good to know there are people with some miles on them who feel the way you do about your life. I hope you continue to feel that way to the very end. Cheers.

 

[Palba_Noruda]

I mean, what troubles the speaker of Williams' "The Red Wheelbarrow"?

so much depends
upon

a red wheel
barrow

glazed with rain
water

beside the white
chickens.​

Thanks for posting about the Bly quote, Tzara. I like this question you're asking. I think this Williams poem can be read as a lament. Maybe it's only in my imagination, but the speaker seems sad, possibly confused and alienated. Does the speaker's partner or family or community understand this deep, rich, fleeting, indescribable experience? I doubt it. The experience described is understandable to us in some way as poetry readers far removed from the time and place, but I think the speaker may have been feeling a bit unhinged about it at the time.

I think that alienation can also be found in Whitman and some speakers who may be coming from a place of rapture.

Perhaps the compulsion to write the experience is an acknowledgement of some sort of incompleteness, even if the experience being communicated is that of beauty, connection, and completeness. Paradoxical?

And there can be trouble in the rapturous experience. It almost seems to defy the meaning of rapture, but it seems to me that rapture can an unsettling experience. Deep and true rapture perhaps forces a radical rethinking, reorganization of a person's life. Or can't rapture be physically unsettling? Like a really great Viagra boner that becomes painful.

Warning: Prolongued rapture can be hazardous to one's health.

Also, a person experiencing true rapture may be feeling 1000% amazing, but to her community, she may seems like she's just run off the rails. So maybe the trouble lies in that schism.

 

[Tzara]

2014-08-26

I don't know how many of you have heard of Fry's Electronics, but they're kind of like IKEA for computer geeks. The original store opened in Silicon Valley and was the place to go to pick up raw circuit boards, ROM programmers, power supplies and the like, as well as scooping up a tub of Red Vines and a case of Jolt Cola for those late night development projects. Now they all have the usual refrigerators and cell phones as well, but they are still the place to go to find the basics you need to build a computer or a robot or something like that.

Anyway, I was wandering around the Seattle-area store today picking up some things for a project for my wife's office—a long USB cable, some wireless adapters, a surge protector—and was looking down the aisle containing various power kinds of things. Batteries, battery chargers, different kinds of plugs and sockets, handcuffs, power strips…

Wait. Handcuffs?

Sure enough. My local Fry's offers a wide array of handcuffs from small, inexpensive models best suited for shackling people with delicately thin wrists to the large, nickel-plated Smith & Wesson models Used by Law Enforcement Professionals!

Those of you without a local Fry's can select from a less extensive but still impressive set of offerings through the Fry's website.

I was in a hurry, so didn't stop to see if they also stocked cattle prods and violet wands, but that was probably the right section.

So remember, the next time you're in the mood for hacking up a Bitcoin Mining server, building your own intelligent thermostat with a Raspberry Pi kit, and feeding your Jones with an industrial-sized box of Cheez-Its, don't forget to pick up a pair of Uzi handcuffs to keep that little minx from accounting close to your, um, "heart."