The Odyssey

[MillieDynamite]

Aye, Lassy, it upset me right down to my kilt.

I dunno, I support risky and interesting film casting choices pretty much always

If we're appealing to tradition, all of the female characters in the Odyssey should have been played by hot femboys!

But returning to my question, did you get mad when Leonidas was played by a Scottish actor?

 

[PennyThompson]

If you really want a serious answer: the 300 movies was an adaptation of a comic that had no pretense to historical accuracy. Quite a far cry from Homer’s Odyssey.

historical accuracy

historical accuracy

 

[MillieDynamite]

Historical accuracy about gods and the affairs of man? Homer wrote a fictionalizing of a historic event, 400+ years after the fact, from a period not noted for written documents, but for orally handed-down accounts. We're now 3000 years (give or take a century or so) from Homer. The story has been reinterpreted how many times? Let's restrict it to movies and TV for the sake of this one movie we're talking about. Dozens of times.

If you really want a serious answer: the 300 movies was an adaptation of a comic that had no pretense to historical accuracy. Quite a far cry from Homer’s Odyssey.

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

I’d like to take the moment to say that I was outraged when Disney’s 1994 remake of Hamlet chose to cast cartoon lions, and ZERO Danes. what utter hogwash that was.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

I’d like to take the moment to say that I was outraged when Disney’s 1994 remake of Hamlet chose to cast cartoon lions, and ZERO Danes. what utter hogwash that was.

You want to talk about outrage? I went all the way to Patara - that’s Turkey for you in the back, in Antalya - imagine my disappointment when I discovered that nobody there looked like this…



We could do this all day, couldn’t we?

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

You want to talk about outrage? I went all the way to Patara - that’s Turkey for you in the back, in Antalya - imagine my disappointment when I discovered that nobody there looked like this…

View attachment 2654664

We could do this all day, couldn’t we?

Imagine my disappointment when I visited the North Pole and discovered not all polar bears are like this.

 

[caleb35]

Imagine my disappointment when I visited the North Pole and discovered not all polar bears are like this.
View attachment 2654671

I'm sorry, that's incorrect, they DO look like that, you just needed to have kept looking, they were all busy elsewhere working on their tans

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Imagine my disappointment when I visited the North Pole and discovered not all polar bears are like this.
View attachment 2654671

Claiming that the north pole is 'always cool' is a bold fucking move...

 

[Jackie.Hikaru]

So to get back on topic. I haven’t seen the Odyssey yet, but heard it was definitely worth watching. I heard that the fella who played Sinon did a particularly stand-up job. All the more noteworthy given Sinon was actually never mentioned in Homer’s Odyssey, but in Virgil’s Aeneid, which is the superior book. #aeneasishotter

 

[crookedletter]

Apparently not a single actual siren was cast in this movie. It's gotta be tough for sirens to get work out there these days; this really was their chance. Shame.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

For me, however, its attempt at historical accuracy is what made it more worthwhile as a film.

There certainly was an attempt.

Like casting a petite blonde South African?

 

[StillStunned]

Apparently not a single actual siren was cast in this movie. It's gotta be tough for sirens to get work out there these days; this really was their chance. Shame.

It's really time for the sirens to make themselves heard.

 

[PennyThompson]

If you really want a serious answer: the 300 movies was an adaptation of a comic that had no pretense to historical accuracy. Quite a far cry from Homer’s Odyssey.

okay okay but more seriously, I truly, genuinely don't understand the pearl-clutching about casting choices in movies like this.

The entire point of adapting a classic is to explore different aspects of it through a variety of different lenses. Culture, setting, tone, subtext, the filmmaker's tastes and aesthetics...

And yet, consistently, the only thing a certain kind of guy likes to whine about is when a person of color, or a woman, or a trans person is cast in a role that historically was played by a different kind of person.

It always only ever goes in that one direction, too. Never a peep about a Scottish actor playing Leonidas, or a British actor playing Bill the Butcher, or an American playing Van Helsing, or... I dunno, an Australian playing Wolverine

So if it's not just basic racism or whatever, what is it?

 

[shelleycat1]

Seen it now, on recommendation from family. Good movie, held my attention all the way through. Plenty of action and… horror.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Like casting a petite blonde South African?

We were discussing the historical accuracy of Nolan's Oppenheimer in that instance.

In general, though, it fits quite well to cast movie stars like Charlize Theron as minor deities like Calypso.

 

[SimonDoom]

If you really want a serious answer: the 300 movies was an adaptation of a comic that had no pretense to historical accuracy. Quite a far cry from Homer’s Odyssey.

The Odyssey has no more claim to historical accuracy than 300. In 300, at least, we know the battle really happened and we know something about the opponents. We know almost nothing about the Trojan War for certain, but we DO know that most of the stuff about the return voyage is just mythology. Sirens, gods, cyclops, etc.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

So if it's not just basic racism or whatever, what is it?

We're fully in politics territory so I'll tread as lightly as I can...I can't speak for them but I honestly don't think it's racism. Or not exactly that. It's about not wanting to reconfigure their conception of the world to accommodate people who were historically marginalized.

If you have that attitude you're going to fall flat on your face pretty often - because their original conception isn't especially accurate, so they often find themselves backed into a corner arguing for the continuation of nonsense (Leonidas as Scottish etc.).

Tell a Brit that there were black men in the British Isles - governing much of it in fact - before any anglo-saxon ever arrived and...that won't change their conception of Britain as a singularly 'white' place.

The ancient world is full of trans reality and myth - from Ovid to Greek statues of Hermaphroditus (you can see one in the Uffizi) to the shape-shifting of the gods - but these guys grew up in a world in which all that was hidden away from the mainstream and so casting a trans actor feels, to them, completely out of keeping with a story from the ancient world. They're wrong but they feel right and nothing anyone says will change that feeling.

 

[PennyThompson]

I honestly don't think it's racism. Or not exactly that. It's about not wanting to reconfigure their conception of the world

I'll have to ponder this for a while, and hopefully @TheLobster will chime in to share his viewpoint, because I really am trying to understand in good faith!

It does put me in mind of some older people I know who viscerally dislike remakes and covers and fashion trends and cultural changes of all kinds. Maybe it's like... identity threat at no longer being culturally centered?

It inevitably happens to us all, eventually we're not the target demographic. The cultural artifacts that were formative to us become comforting, and that's not necessarily a bad thing! But nostalgia is always more vibes than fact, and it can easily be weaponized by bad actors

 

[sirhugs]

If you really want a serious answer: the 300 movies was an adaptation of a comic that had no pretense to historical accuracy. Quite a far cry from Homer’s Odyssey.

though as I understand it, few if anybody thinks the Odyssey is actually historically accurate to begin with.

 

[sirhugs]

okay okay but more seriously, I truly, genuinely don't understand the pearl-clutching about casting choices in movies like this.

The entire point of adapting a classic is to explore different aspects of it through a variety of different lenses. Culture, setting, tone, subtext, the filmmaker's tastes and aesthetics...

And yet, consistently, the only thing a certain kind of guy likes to whine about is when a person of color, or a woman, or a trans person is cast in a role that historically was played by a different kind of person.

It always only ever goes in that one direction, too. Never a peep about a Scottish actor playing Leonidas, or a British actor playing Bill the Butcher, or an American playing Van Helsing, or... I dunno, an Australian playing Wolverine

So if it's not just basic racism or whatever, what is it?

Or an earthling playing Kal-El

 

[Kelliezgirl]

We're fully in politics territory so I'll tread as lightly as I can...I can't speak for them but I honestly don't think it's racism. Or not exactly that. It's about not wanting to reconfigure their conception of the world to accommodate people who were historically marginalized.

If you have that attitude you're going to fall flat on your face pretty often - because their original conception isn't especially accurate, so they often find themselves backed into a corner arguing for the continuation of nonsense (Leonidas as Scottish etc.).

Tell a Brit that there were black men in the British Isles - governing much of it in fact - before any anglo-saxon ever arrived and...that won't change their conception of Britain as a singularly 'white' place.

The ancient world is full of trans reality and myth - from Ovid to Greek statues of Hermaphroditus (you can see one in the Uffizi) to the shape-shifting of the gods - but these guys grew up in a world in which all that was hidden away from the mainstream and so casting a trans actor feels, to them, completely out of keeping with a story from the ancient world. They're wrong but they feel right and nothing anyone says will change that feeling.

The issue with Eliot Page isn't one of being a trans actor, it's casting someone 5ft tall weighing 85lbs as one of the greatest warriors in the world. It just doesnt make any practical sense.

 

[MillieDynamite]

No, both Christopher Reeve's and Henry Cavill are from the planet Krypton!

Or an earthling playing Kal-El

 

[MillieDynamite]

I take offense at that, I'm 4'10 1/2 (yes, the 1/2 is important), and was the best fugtive recover agent in the company where I worked.

The issue with Eliot Page isn't one of being a trans actor, it's casting someone 5ft tall weighing 85lbs as one of the greatest warriors in the world. It just doesnt make any practical sense.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I take offense at that, I'm 4'10 1/2 (yes, the 1/2 is important), and was the best fugtive recover agent in the company where I worked.

And if they handed you a sword and shield and told you to fight guys who were 6ft tall weighing 250 lbs, they would have beaten you to a pulp.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, not necessarily with gods on my side. After all, that's what the story is about: the gods making you prosperous or breaking you into tiny pieces. You can't watch and enjoy the story unless you buy into the myths of the story you're watching.

And if they handed you a sword and shield and told you to fight guys who were 6ft tall weighing 250 lbs, they would have beaten you to a pulp.