The Rules on Non-Consent Here are Frankly Ridiculous

[SisterJezabel]

Having some time to kill, and several stories that don't appear to want to be finished in a hurry, I came here for some, actually, I don't know what.

The thing is that almost every category on here has ambiguity—First Time can be anything from first time having sex, to first time having anal, to first time having a third person in a relationship. Even the Gay and Lesbian categories contain stories about straights experiencing same-sex activity. Novels and novellas has varying lengths of works. Perhaps only Non-Erotic is the most straightforward.

It is what it is. To me, it comes back to being only able to control my actions. One of the things I can do is make sure what I submit conforms to the rules of the site I am submitting to. Just my $0.02, which in Aussie dollars isn't worth that much, really.

 

[KeithD]

Even the Gay and Lesbian categories contain stories about straights experiencing same-sex activity. y.

Sorry, I laughed out loud. If they can get it up for same-sex activity, they aren't "straight." They are at least bi.

I think it's good that the category definitions are loose. It allows for a wide range of creative approach.

I read a post that bemoaned the category content takeover of Loving Wives. The readers don't determine what gets posted there, the writers do. They can just pump away, interpreting what belongs there themselves. They don't have to let the trolls own the category. If they are only writing to be pumped up by high scores, I, for one, don't give them much credit as writers. They aren't fully into it as a writer.

And, yes, I have stories in Loving Wives in a previous account. And, yes, I wrote to my interpretation of what the category is, not in fear of controlling trolls. And, yes, the scores are low (but there's a green E on one of them). I've survived that.

 

[Bramblethorn]

But it's not just capitalism, it's all systems. There's no such thing as a system where you get what you want without having to give something for it. The names and the forms change, but the basic dynamic doesn't.

I'd agree that nobody has yet succeeded in building such a system. But that doesn't mean such a system is impossible, just that we (collectively) have made other choices over and over again. The amount of value you can get out of a human worker per hour has increased hugely over the last couple of centuries; you can take advantage of that to (A) make more stuff, or (B) let people work less while having the same amount of stuff. Overwhelmingly we've picked (A), because we haven't really figured out a way to distribute that "stuff" other than as a reward for work done.

Designing and implementing a different system is fiendishly difficult - especially the second part - and I'm fairly cynical about people who claim to have it solved. But if somebody reckons they have a good idea, like I say, I'm willing to look at their pamphlet

 

[XerXesXu]

[Disagreement and resentment are not the same thing. I can disagree with someone without resenting them. Accusing me of resentment is completely off-base. You have no grounds to say that.]

To repeat, what is it you disagree about? You find non-con fantasies disturbing, others find them disturbing; where do you disagree? Your persistence seems to go beyond mere disagreement.

[My attitude is one of near-total acceptance of whatever people want to fantasize about. Nobody is hurt by fantasies.]

How do you know? Rapists/incels find validation in exchanging non-con tropes. Who do you think reads them?

The rape statistics for the last stats year in Eng+Wales were released recently; in the order 0f 63,000 complaints of rape, around 1.5% prosecuted. Perhaps we have 62,000 non-con fantasists walking the streets telling one another, ‘I told the police, they loved it really.’

[I think I'm being realistic about the fact that there is an obvious connection between what is "erotic" and a lot of deep, dark, and disturbing stuff that lies inside us.]

Why? I don’t even have a lot of deep, dark, disturbing stuff inside me let alone connected to my erotic sensibilities. The only people I’ve met who’d answer that description have been in prison or mental hospital.

[It continually surprises me how much squeamishness and moral righteousness are on display in this forum. I'm baffled. But I'm not resentful.]

I’m not squeamish. I write about ‘Toxic Grandma Shit’ and judging by the number of views not many on this site have a stomach as strong as mine. I’m amoral. I have no beliefs that would preclude me from killing, raping or otherwise harming others; I would choose not to do so in the absence of societal restraints.

[As a rule, I do not take disagreement personally. But I do take it personally when someone, like Lovecraft, gets personal and calls me names or accuses me of bad faith. Someone who does that is being a jerk, and I'm going to let him know it. But resentment has nothing to do with it.]

You’re more sensitive than me.

 

[XerXesXu]

Simon, when are you going to learn, you can't argue with stupid people. They don't listen to a thing you say and most couldn't understand if they did listen.

Arguing with idiots is like arguing with a fence. A total waste of breath and time.

Put them on ignore if you can't do it mentally. It is the same bunch every time.

I'm sure we all wish you well on your journey to a safe space.

 

[SimonDoom]

Simon, when are you going to learn, you can't argue with stupid people. They don't listen to a thing you say and most couldn't understand if they did listen.

Arguing with idiots is like arguing with a fence. A total waste of breath and time.

Put them on ignore if you can't do it mentally. It is the same bunch every time.

What's that line from The Godfather 3? "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in."

You're right, no doubt about it.

 

[Comshaw]

You either allow it or you don't. My stories often have non-consent, though there is, I assure you, much more going on in the way of complex plot and character development (trust me on that), but there is frequently that element. You can like that kind of thing or hate it as you wish. I don't have a problem with non-consent, since it's fiction, not a guidebook to real life. Murder mysteries have murders and the victim generally didn't consent. I'm imaginging a scene where the murderer shoots the victim and as they're lying on the floor dying, they say, "Hey, that felt good, shoot me again, please."

Some sites don't allow non-consent-Amazon, for instance. They make that clear and I don't put those stories there (several years ago, they were less clear on that and some were there for a time). Other sites (pay and free) are fine with it and I have many stories there.

But Lit has decided to try to be coy. They say you can have all the non-consent you like as long as the victim decides to enjoy it at the end. To put this unelegantly, this is simply BULLSHIT. More than that, it's frankly offensive. A woman kicking and screaming and fighting her assailant off and then in the end loving it and orgasming? Come, on!

Publish non-consent stories or not, as you wish. Just be honest about it...

Feel better now? I do not say that to be flippant, but to acknowledge the fact that sometimes it's good for us to get out those things that are scraping us raw from the inside. Having been a soldier, I know there is nothing better for the soul than a good old fashion bitch session.

The non-consent rule is bullshit? For some, yes, for others not so much. Personally, even though it is a far-fetched (although far from impossible) concept, it bothers me not at all. Why not? As stated before by more than one, this is not my house.

The owners have set the rules. Why those rules are what they are I can only guess. They may not like rape and non-consent at all but have decided to allow it within parameters that are acceptable to them. They may want to error on the side of caution. I am sure there are a bunch of other reasons I can't think of right now but suffice it to say they have some reason for doing it that way.

Does it have to make sense? Not really. Do I have to like it? Not really. If I don't like it what are my options?

I have 3 choices: petition them to change the rules, which they may or may not do, 2) accept them as is, 3) Find another place to post my stories.

I do not believe they are going to change the rules any time soon, so number 1 is out. I kinda' like it here, so for me number 3 is out. Which leaves number 2: accept the rules as is.

Over the years I've blooded myself on immovable philosophical windmills and have come to the conclusion that if I can not change a thing and if I decide to stay where that thing resides, I will not allow it to put a ripple in my zen.

I may not like the rules, but as I said above, I only have three choices that I can see, so I will try to choose wisely and not allow what I don't like to eat at me.

Keep this in mind, since it is Laurel and Manu's house and they have total control over what and what not to allow, they could, if they wished, issue an edict that bans all dissent in these forums, or just shut them down. It's their right as owners. That isn't fawning over or genuflecting to them, it is just a cold, hard fact. I've been on other sites that do do it that way.


Comshaw

 

[CarmineBlancheJr]

I'm a little late joining this thread, but I have to tell you. Having taken the time to read all these posts, I am impressed with some of the thoughts and ideas that have come across. This entire thread reads almost like a breakout discussion from a psychology class, and I love it.

I know that the whole non-con thing is a slippery slope for some. A girl I dated briefly was raped repeatedly by her uncle when she was 16, and it messed her up a bit. We did not even have sex for almost a year after we started dating. But she read some of my early stories and liked a couple of my Non-Con works and told me it was pretty hot but was not something she would actively go out and read on her own.

My thoughts on it are that people are going to fantasize about these things. There are a lot of guys who think about what it would be like to "take" the really attractive, snobby girl at the office. But a majority of us don't because we know it's wrong. But, going back to the girl I dated when asked, she said that reading about it and making it something that you can use to express yourself in writing is fine.

I have written stories about killing people (non-erotic), but it does not mean I am going to become a murderer. I have a series I am working on about non-cons, and I think it's great, but there is a caveat to it that I will not share for fear of spoiling it. But it does not mean I am going to act out any of the things I write. I mean... unless it's a "willing" partner that enjoys CNC play.

Funny... One of my personal fantasies was always a "reverse" non-con. Where a woman traps and uses me. I enjoy reading those types and even have one like that I am writing. I hope Laurel allows it. ;-)

 

[madelinemasoch]

You can actually do a noncon story that fits fully within the parameters of the site rules (victim ultimately enjoys it) and still not have it published on the site. The reason given in my case was “brutal acts.” There’s no guideline that says “brutal acts aren’t allowed.”

You can also heavily imply rape and place it in a different category altogether and get it through, shockingly enough. It’s one of my most complex scenes (she’s fantasizing about it happening in the past, so it must be enjoyable?) but sadly no longer available because I took all of my stories down. The truly shocking thing for me was that that scene got absolutely zero commentary on forums or in the comments, which were littered with abuse telling me to quit.

I’d say the enforcement of the rules heavily relies upon whether a given story gets reported. In the first case, I was originally published with no POV context edits showing the victim enjoyed it and then reported, taken down, then added context edits and resubmitted which was subsequently rejected anyway. I resubmitted a third time with no additional changes and they just left it in pending hell for months, so I deleted it, not wanting something like that to go up while I’m laying low in regards to publishing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Some women climax during rape. This doesn't mean they enjoyed it. But when they cum, they did gain pleasure from the rape, which is more humiliation heaped on top of the degradations.

 

[CarmineBlancheJr]

Some women climax during rape. This doesn't mean they enjoyed it. But when they cum, they did gain pleasure from the rape, which is more humiliation heaped on top of the degradations.

Unfortunately, I seem to recall that this argument was used in a rape trial once. Cannot cite details, but it sounds darned familiar.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Like half a million of them, or more, in the past century when the woman was actually the one on trial and got raped in court for the whole community to join in the thrusting.

Unfortunately, I seem to recall that this argument was used in a rape trial once. Cannot cite details, but it sounds darned familiar.

 

[AG31]

And, yes, the scores are low (but there's a green E on one of them). I've survived that.

What's a green E? I know about a red (orange?) H, but not E.

 

[KeithD]

What's a green E? I know about a red (orange?) H, but not E.

The Green E is "editor's choice." Something Laure, the site owner and admissions editor, bestows, although not the much in the last few years.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I shall never see a Geen E.