These guys should be shot

[Wildcard Ky]

You have no idea what his situation is, yet you are ready to execute him.

Let's see.......... His situation is that he:

Was an active participant in the gang rape of a woman.

He forced a 12 year old boy to watch his mother be gang raped.

He then forced the 12 year old boy to have sex with his mother that had just been gang raped.

He then poured household chemicals into the 12 year old boys eyes in an attempt to blind him.

There's his situation.


I realize that the death penalty isn't legally warranted in this case, so my point is not one of reality. I'm just saying that it wouldn't bother me a bit if everyone of them were executed for this one. I think it would be a fitting punishment for what they did.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lisa123414
You have no idea what his situation is, yet you are ready to execute him.

Let's see.......... His situation is that he:

Was an active participant in the gang rape of a woman.

He forced a 12 year old boy to watch his mother be gang raped.

He then forced the 12 year old boy to have sex with his mother that had just been gang raped.

He then poured household chemicals into the 12 year old boys eyes in an attempt to blind him.

There's his situation.


I realize that the death penalty isn't legally warranted in this case, so my point is not one of reality. I'm just saying that it wouldn't bother me a bit if everyone of them were executed for this one. I think it would be a fitting punishment for what they did.

I agree. Whatever his home situation is, he should not be excused because of it. He was an active participant, which was shown by the presence of his semen in a condom, and he confessed. Hanging or shooting would be excessive, but I believe it should be a long, long time before he breathes air outside of some kind of a penal institution.

ETA: If some friend or relative inside that penal institution takes care of business while the bastard is there, I would shed no tears at all.

 

[cloudy]

Let's see.......... His situation is that he:

Was an active participant in the gang rape of a woman.

He forced a 12 year old boy to watch his mother be gang raped.

He then forced the 12 year old boy to have sex with his mother that had just been gang raped.

He then poured household chemicals into the 12 year old boys eyes in an attempt to blind him.

There's his situation.


I realize that the death penalty isn't legally warranted in this case, so my point is not one of reality. I'm just saying that it wouldn't bother me a bit if everyone of them were executed for this one. I think it would be a fitting punishment for what they did.

Actually, you don't know if he did any of those things. All you know is that he was there. He, personally, may have done none of those things.

So, yeah, lets kill him.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Actually, you don't know if he did any of those things. All you know is that he was there. He, personally, may have done none of those things.

So, yeah, lets kill him.

Actually, they found semen in a condom that also had the victim's cells on it, in addition to his confession, so we know he was an active participant.

I don't think anybody actually favors killing him over this crime, but none of us would be upset if that were to happen.

 

[cloudy]

I don't think anybody actually favors killing him over this crime, but none of us would be upset if that were to happen.

I would.

Killiing children is wrong. Period.

 

[English Lady]

I don't think anybody actually favors killing him over this crime, but none of us would be upset if that were to happen.

I would be massively upset, that is completely uncalled for especially as we have so little real knowledge to go on for aportioning blame.

 

[Edward Teach]

Actually, they found semen in a condom that also had the victim's cells on it, in addition to his confession, so we know he was an active participant.

I don't think anybody actually favors killing him over this crime, but none of us would be upset if that were to happen.

He is a kid. I don't want to see any child killed.

I knew some 14 yr olds who could have been led into acts like this by the right group and some of them did some pretty bad things, nothing like rape, but pretty bad nevertheless. The turned out to be good people and good citizens when they grew up.

These kids need to be punished but not executed.

 

[only_more_so]

Am I the only one who read the article and was stunned when the rapist's father said, "My son has a good heart. I can't believe my son would do something like this." Someone brought this up in another thread, how inevitably some member of the criminal's family says, "He's a good boy, he couldn't have done this."

As for the crime itself and the punishment... I can't condone killing a 14 year old kid, but I also have a hard time imagining that he will ever become a useful member of society. I think it would take divine intervention to save the teens who committed these crimes, or severely reinforced behavior such as RR suggested.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Here's a link to the other thread about this

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=527941

 

[Boxlicker101]

Am I the only one who read the article and was stunned when the rapist's father said, "My son has a good heart. I can't believe my son would do something like this." Someone brought this up in another thread, how inevitably some member of the criminal's family says, "He's a good boy, he couldn't have done this."

As for the crime itself and the punishment... I can't condone killing a 14 year old kid, but I also have a hard time imagining that he will ever become a useful member of society. I think it would take divine intervention to save the teens who committed these crimes, or severely reinforced behavior such as RR suggested.

Actually, the palm print belonged to the 16 year old, whose father described him as having a good heart. He was there but he may not have been involved.

In order for the younger thug to have a DNA record, he must have been involved in similar activities in the past. He may already be a serial rapist.

Whatever hapens to these two and the other members of the gang, I have not a speck of sympathy for any of them.

 

[Edward Teach]

Actually, the palm print belonged to the 16 year old, whose father described him as having a good heart. He was there but he may not have been involved.

In order for the younger thug to have a DNA record, he must have been involved in similar activities in the past. He may already be a serial rapist.

Whatever hapens to these two and the other members of the gang, I have not a speck of sympathy for any of them.

 

[cloudy]

Whatever hapens to these two and the other members of the gang, I have not a speck of sympathy for any of them.

"I don't want to take responsibility for killing a child, so I'll just avoid all that culpability, and avoid making myself look bad, but rejoice when someone else does it for me. "

 

[Boota]

To me, the crime does warrant the death penalty for all involved. However, I would require strong proof as to the participation of the persons involved. The 14 year old faces some very damning evidence. With OJ's lawyer he might beat the rap, but with a public defender - not a chance. With common sense as a factor in the verdict - not a chance. His DNA in the condom, her DNA on the condom? He did it.

The 16 year old? Maybe he was a cowardly bystander who did nothing to help the victims or participate in the rape. Or maybe he was the ringleader and all they found was a palm print. Not enough evidence I've seen for a death penalty conviction, but just being there and not helping, or reporting it police, warrants MASSIVE jail time. I realize trying to help at the scene would have likely resulted in that person becoming a victim as well.

The key to me is to get the confessed rapist, the 14 year old, to name the other accomplices. I'd rather see all ten of them in prison for 25 or more years each than to execute the one who got caught. To echo an earlier sentiment, if they were to be killed in prison while serving their time I wouldn't care a bit. They are most likely unsalvageable human beings who will only grow more dangerous in prison and go on to carry out even more equally heinous crimes. Actually sentencing them to death and carrying out the executions would do more to further political agendas than to further justice.

I don't see them as kids who made a mistake. I made a mistake at fifteen years old and was arrested for underaged drinking. My brother broke into a business with some friends at fourteen. Those were mistakes. It is an insult to the victims of the crime these young men are charged with to call this a "mistake". This type of crime demonstrates fundamentally sociopathic violent behavior and the perpetrators didn't make a mistake. They made a conscience choice to commit a vile and heinous act for their own gratification. I don't agree that the sentence should be death, but if it were, I wouldn't feel that it was wholly unjustified either.

 

[SeaCat]

Okay so here is some more info, info that you probably haven't seen yet.


Family of victims reveals some of gruesome details of attack

By DWAYNE ROBINSON

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, July 08, 2007

WEST PALM BEACH - When she and her son boarded that American Airlines flight seven years ago, her family thought they would be safer here than in Port-au-Prince, Haiti.

But that feeling of safety dissolved as an illusion in the 35-year-old woman's gruesome gang rape at gunpoint and the assault of her 12-year-old son at the Dunbar Village housing project.

"Our dad brought us down so everyone could have a better life," said the woman's 32-year-old brother, who lives a few miles from Dunbar Village community. "Nobody expected something like that to happen in America."

Their relatives now are speaking out about the June 18 tragedy, its victims and the aftermath while also filling in the gaps about a crime that has horrified even veteran investigators.

Armed gunmen forced themselves into the woman's apartment, where they repeatedly raped her, smashed a plate over the boy's head and poured household chemicals into his eyes and over her body, according to police accounts.

So far, two teenagers have been arrested and charged in the case. The victims said up too 10 were involved.

Nathan Walker, 16, and Avion Lawson, 14, are facing charges as adults of armed sexual battery while wearing a mask, home invasion, aggravated battery and charges related to allegedly forcing the woman to have sex with her son.

"They hit him and made him do stuff," the woman's brother said, "and when he didn't do it, they made his mom do stuff."

The woman's father said the attackers poured ammonia on his daughter, a suffocating chemical whose gases alone can burn the eyes and lungs, in attempt to destroy DNA evidence.

Police spokesman Ted White would not confirm or deny ammonia was the cleaning agent used. It also was unclear Saturday whether it was ammonia that the attacker poured in the boy's eyes.

"It's hard to look at him and imagine what happened," the woman's brother said. "It's painful."

Family members said the boy now can see, though the excruciating pain remains. About 48 hours after the attack, the boy was immobile in a hospital bed, a 1 1/2 -inch scar stitched across the top left of his skull and bandages covering both eyes.

"His eyes were closed - always crying," the woman's brother recalled.

The boy and his mother walked about a mile to Good Samaritan Medical Center at least two hours or so after the attack, White said.

The woman's brother said that was their only means of getting medical help. The attackers "robbed them and took everything from the house," he said. That included a cellular phone, the home phone and even a fax machine, the brother added.

The family was afraid and did not want to live in Dunbar Village, but the two could not afford much else after the mother, a nurse assistant at the time, fell and injured her back. (The boy's father lives Haiti.)

The woman and son have moved out of Dunbar Village, and the family said they want to relocate somewhere else in the area. The family suspects neighbors probably heard her screams and the attacks through the wafer-thin walls but did nothing out of fear.

West Palm Beach police announced Saturday that a fund through St. Ann's Church, where the woman was a parishioner, has been set up with Wachovia Bank to assist with the family's moving and living expenses. Her faith, the family said, is helping her get through the tragedy.

"She has faith in God because she always says, 'Whatever happens, the police will catch" the attackers, her brother said. "She says she will get justice."

Cat

 

[SeaCat]

And here is a report on the place here it happened.

Security measures added but residents still fearful
By ROCHELLE E.B. GILKEN

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, July 08, 2007

DUNBAR VILLAGE — By the time a 35-year-old woman was gang raped, robbed and beaten in her home, the sight of police tape and patrol cars were as familiar as clotheslines and headlights.

During the year leading up to the attack on the mother and her 12-year-old son on June 18, police responded to Dunbar Village 717 times, an average of about two times a day.

That amounts to more than three police calls a year for each of the 226 households in this West Palm Beach housing project.

All those cop calls to 17 acres surrounded by green bars. In one year, 15 stolen vehicles, 64 disturbances, 21 assaults, four shootings and four stabbings, according to police calls for service.

But then there is the one rape, believed to be committed by up to 10 of the community's children and their friends, hoodlums no older than 18. So far, two have been arrested: Avion Lawson, 14, and Nathan Walker, 16.

This crime shined a light on this community, not far from Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard and Australian Avenue.

"I haven't seen anything so targeted and brutal. People will try to intimidate by shooting - we have that down there - but this is completely different," said Laurel Robinson, executive director of the West Palm Beach Housing Authority. "We had to battle drug dealing. We had to battle shooting. The mind-set behind this is coming from a place I've never seen before. It becomes more of a terroristic activity than a criminal activity. It's beyond the beyond for me."

'Be careful in here'

"ATTENTION! ENTERING DESIGNATED NO CRIME ZONE."

That sign at the main entrance is clear, even if it's not true.

This is where a single, churchgoing mother and her son stayed inside most days to hide from the crime outside.

But on June 18, it walked in the door, disguised as teenagers informing her she had flat tires to get into her home.

Two turned into as many as 10 assailants committing rape, beating. Unspeakable acts of sexual violence.

After that, the housing authority offered residents who barely knew the victims free and confidential counseling.

Police also stepped up patrols, Robinson said.

And security measures that had been in the works for months fell into place: The main entrance to Dunbar, the one with the "no crime" sign, was blocked with three large flower pots and a Road Closed barricade. A panoramic surveillance camera will be set up in two or three weeks, Robinson said.

The only way in now is past a mechanical arm at the side entrance that stays down after dark. Residents get parking permits and electronic openers.

But that means people who live closer to the front have to drive past the dreaded rear of the complex from Division Avenue. That's where gang names are scribbled on mailboxes and drugs are for sale, residents warn.

Residents on their porches call out, "Be careful. Be careful in here."

"The back is bad. Really bad. Be careful."

Tawanna Gamble would like to move out.

"Anywhere but here. I don't like what goes on here," said Gamble, 31, pregnant with her second baby. "I don't want her growing up like this." Her 2-year-old girl was playing on the porch.

"Sometimes I bring her out to play a little bit. You feel sick. When they are shooting fireworks, you think it's a gunshot."

Criminals have help inside

Robinson went to Dunbar late last week to see how the new mechanical arm worked. This is what she saw:

"Folks I don't recognize were opening gates for other people I don't recognize that don't have stickers on their car," she said. "It was a lot better, a lot quieter. Nothing like the volume of cars we had before, but I was concerned some residents who had a clicker put it in the hands of somebody I don't think lived there."

Which gets to her point: The criminals do not have leases to live here. The residents are seniors and hard-working families, people without criminal records.

"The perpetrators come from the outside, and we have too many enablers on the inside," she said.

Neither teen arrested in the rape was on anyone's lease. The people who let them in are in danger of losing their home.

"The terms of lease state if anyone who is a visitor or under control of your household commits a crime, you are in material violation of your lease and could lose your housing," Robinson said.

Robinson said she will wait until the police investigation is done before considering whether to revoke Avion Lawson's grandmother's lease, or Nathan Walker's friend's leases, or anyone else who supported one of the suspects.

She estimated that someone gets kicked out of one of the city's 712 public housing units a couple times a month.

People live here because they live with poverty. The average resident pays $150 a month, the equivalent of 30 percent of their income, Robinson said. Some pay no rent.

More changes are planned at Dunbar. A row of 24 units will be demolished to make room for retail stores, open in the next two to three years, Robinson said. She hopes that helps.

Robinson acknowledges that Dunbar, built in 1940, and other public housing complexes have gotten worse during the past few years. After years of getting $165,000 a year for extra police details in the city's public housing, Congress cut off the money four years ago.

"They decided they didn't want to spend it, and we're paying the price," she said.

A 66-year-old, who identified himself as Malcolm X. Lewis, said he thinks the place would turn around if there was more security. But the children are in control.

"That wasn't surprising to me it happened here. Dunbar Village is supposed to have protection. We need protection."

Cat

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Such things are incomprehensible to me. Short of death, there's not an appropriate punishment for them.

What's really sad is that there will be people that defend these guys. They'll insist that they're just babies, and that they should be set free in a few years.

I hope they make all kinds of very large and interesting new friends in jail.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm wondering why they didn't put in those security measures before something like this happened.

I have my beliefs as to why. I'll keep them to myself though.

 

[SeaCat]

I'm wondering why they didn't put in those security measures before something like this happened.

I have my beliefs as to why. I'll keep them to myself though.

Rob,

Why weren't the security measures put into place? Tough question with an easy answer. It was not poliicaly expedient to do so.

The people who live there just didn't produce enough votes, unlike the downtown redevelopment plans.

As for the punishment for those who have truly commited these crimes. No the death penalty is not it. (Even though I too am an advocate for the death penalty.) Personally I think their punishment should be a very public and very demeaning punishment. One that will make them suffer and make others think about it as well. We're not talking about castration. I'm talking about those truly disgusting jobs as well as those that are physically uncomfortable. Make them do this for an extended period of time.

I'm talking about things like cleaning the public sewers with buckets and hand trowels. I'm talking about cleaning up the Doggie Bombs and other nasties that collect on the public beaches, while wearing bringhtly clored Jumpsuits and maybe rubber gloves. I'm talking the cleaning up of demolition rubble by hand.

You have an oil spill on the beach? These are the guys to clean it up.

You see some guys doing the truly dirty and nasty work while wearing brightly colored Jumpsuits with the words Cruel and Unusual on them? Check out what they have done.

Have a website dedicated to them, and show what they go through. Advertise it. Show them on a Reality Show. Show what they deal with on a daily basis along with their rehab.

Cat

 

[rgraham666]

I have no problem with those ideas, Cat. You know my feelings on capital punishment.

To my mind it wasn't only the lack of votes, it was the perception of that area and the people that lived in it. Before this crime occurred, most people wouldn't have differentiated between the perps and the victims. "They're those people. All lazy scum. Who cares if they hurt each other as long as they stay away from us. Don't waste my money on them."

I could be wrong, but that's my belief in the matter.

 

[lisa123414]

Rob,

Why weren't the security measures put into place? Tough question with an easy answer. It was not poliicaly expedient to do so.

The people who live there just didn't produce enough votes, unlike the downtown redevelopment plans.

As for the punishment for those who have truly commited these crimes. No the death penalty is not it. (Even though I too am an advocate for the death penalty.) Personally I think their punishment should be a very public and very demeaning punishment. One that will make them suffer and make others think about it as well. We're not talking about castration. I'm talking about those truly disgusting jobs as well as those that are physically uncomfortable. Make them do this for an extended period of time.

I'm talking about things like cleaning the public sewers with buckets and hand trowels. I'm talking about cleaning up the Doggie Bombs and other nasties that collect on the public beaches, while wearing bringhtly clored Jumpsuits and maybe rubber gloves. I'm talking the cleaning up of demolition rubble by hand.

You have an oil spill on the beach? These are the guys to clean it up.

You see some guys doing the truly dirty and nasty work while wearing brightly colored Jumpsuits with the words Cruel and Unusual on them? Check out what they have done.

Have a website dedicated to them, and show what they go through. Advertise it. Show them on a Reality Show. Show what they deal with on a daily basis along with their rehab.

Cat

Agreed, let the punishment be harsh. The uncomfortable questions are - will the justice be different because these boys attacked a family in the projects? And why are we turning out so many disenfranchised, sociopathic young people?

 

[rgraham666]

Agreed, let the punishment be harsh. The uncomfortable questions are - will the justice be different because these boys attacked a family in the projects? And why are we turning out so many disenfranchised, sociopathic young people?

In many ways, they're simply living up to our expectations. We don't expect much more from them than this.

It's a phenomena I'm intimately familiar with. I grew up in a place where it was made obvious to me every day that I had no future. I got to believe it after a while.

 

[SeaCat]

Agreed, let the punishment be harsh. The uncomfortable questions are - will the justice be different because these boys attacked a family in the projects? And why are we turning out so many disenfranchised, sociopathic young people?

Good questions.

I am a firm believer in making the punishments fit the crime, hell make the punishments harsher than the crime. I am also a firm believer in doing this across the spectrum without regards to the race or even gender of the criminal.

Why are we turning out so many disenfranchised and sociopathic youngsters? I have my theories but unfortunately no acceptable answers. (Then again maybe we need the unnaceptable answers.)

Cat

 

[cloudy]

Why are we turning out so many disenfranchised and sociopathic youngsters? I have my theories but unfortunately no acceptable answers. (Then again maybe we need the unnaceptable answers.)

"It takes a village to raise a child."

We no longer have the village.

 

[cumallday]

It's been proven that capital punishment does not deter crime, let alone violent crime. Also, sentencing a prisoner to life in prison is a better allocation of resources than sentencing him to be executed.

 

[SeaCat]

"It takes a village to raise a child."

We no longer have the village.

In some cases no we do not have the village. Where has it gone?

Maybe it has vanished with the idea so many people have that they are entitled.

Entitled? Yes entitled. They have been taught that they don't have to work for something they don't have, they are entitled to it and therefore have no problem taking it. Hey if you are raised with the idea that you don't have to work for what you get, that you will just be given it, then you will act accordingly. (I can cite members of my family on this.)

Cat