These guys should be shot

[rgraham666]

I think this might actually work. Public humiliation. Hmm. There might be a downside to this, but I can't think of it at the moment.

The downside, as always, is when mistakes are made. Or power is abused. It's not just fourteen year old kids who go nuts. Or decide the law can't touch them.

I have a book in my library Killer by Joey. He was a hit man for the Mob. This was his biography.

At the end of it, he posted acknowledgments for people and institutions that made him successful. Among them he especially thanked the penal system for 'turning out more and better criminals than any system we could devise. You send some kid to jail for a year on a marijuana charge and when he comes out he'll show a dozen ways to pick any lock in the world.

Shrugs. The world's not perfect. Anyone who expects it to be is going to be disappointed.

 

[rgraham666]

Not true. That's just another myth. Read this link.

Death penalty

Firstly of all, I'm inclined to disbelieve this because of the paper it's printed in. The Guardian has as definite an ideological agenda as Pravda did under the Soviets. They printed this article, in my opinion, not to add to the debate on capital punishment but to 'prove' that capital punishment is a good thing to do.

Secondly, I would like to see their methodology. How did they determine that homicides were prevented? I am somewhat ignorant of statistics, but how can they determine that something didn't happen? That challenges my credulity, taxes it even.

 

[NoJo]

Firstly of all, I'm inclined to disbelieve this because of the paper it's printed in. The Guardian has as definite an ideological agenda as Pravda did under the Soviets. They printed this article, in my opinion, not to add to the debate on capital punishment but to 'prove' that capital punishment is a good thing to do.

Secondly, I would like to see their methodology. How did they determine that homicides were prevented? I am somewhat ignorant of statistics, but how can they determine that something didn't happen? That challenges my credulity, taxes it even.

The Guardian is probably the only UK national that wouldn't do something like that. They're reporting it because its newsworthy

 

[Boxlicker101]

Firstly of all, I'm inclined to disbelieve this because of the paper it's printed in. The Guardian has as definite an ideological agenda as Pravda did under the Soviets. They printed this article, in my opinion, not to add to the debate on capital punishment but to 'prove' that capital punishment is a good thing to do.

Secondly, I would like to see their methodology. How did they determine that homicides were prevented? I am somewhat ignorant of statistics, but how can they determine that something didn't happen? That challenges my credulity, taxes it even.

You may have a low opinion of The Guardian. I don't have any opinion, because I know nothing about them. However, are you accusing them of making up the story? That would be a very strong accusation.

As for other papers not publishing it, possibly they refuse to do so because the findings contradict their editorial opinion. It's not really a news item, so they have no obligation to do so.

I do know this: No criminal, once having been put to death, has ever committed another crime. I also know that unless you make murder a more serious crime than anything else, more robbers and rapists and kidnappers will kill their victims in order to eliminate witnesses and other evidence.

 

[cloudy]

I do know this: No criminal, once having been put to death, has ever committed another crime. I also know that unless you make murder a more serious crime than anything else, more robbers and rapists and kidnappers will kill their victims in order to eliminate witnesses and other evidence.

I also know this: once you put someone to death, you can't take it back if it's found that you've made a mistake.

That may be an acceptable risk for you. It isn't for me.

Prove to me our justice system is 1) fair, and 2) infallible, and I may change my mind. But you can't, so I won't.

 

[angelicminx]

I also know this: once you put someone to death, you can't take it back if it's found that you've made a mistake.

That may be an acceptable risk for you. It isn't for me.

Prove to me our justice system is 1) fair, and 2) infallible, and I may change my mind. But you can't, so I won't.

This is actually the only problem I have with the death penalty. So many mistakes get made, and once someone is executed no one can say, "Oops, sorry, wrong person. Here's X number of dollars to make it up to you" and have everything be okay. I do support the death penalty, but only in the cases where there is no doubt the accused is guilty.

 

[rgraham666]

Box, I did not say that they made the story up. I said that they printed it because it fits, what I see, as their ideological agenda. Had the story been that capital punishment does not deter murder, I don't believe they would have printed it.

I could be wrong though. Joe seems to think otherwise and I value his opinion. Also my opinion is based on limited data.

I still question the methodology. So far as I know statistics measures things that happen. I don't believe it can measure things that didn't happen.

You're quite right, cloudy. Last time I looked, about 15% of the US population was black or Hispanic. At the same time, 49% of the Death Row population was black or Hispanic.

So far as I know, there are no rich, white men waiting to be executed.

 

[cloudy]

You're quite right, cloudy. Last time I looked, about 15% of the US population was black or Hispanic. At the same time, 49% of the Death Row population was black or Hispanic.

So far as I know, there are no rich, white men waiting to be executed.

There's a reason that prison is referred to as "the largest reservation in the United States," as well.

 

[rgraham666]

There's a reason that prison is referred to as "the largest reservation in the United States," as well.

Sigh.

 

[cloudy]

Sigh.

When I went to court with K that time, he and this one black guy were the only non-whites there, through the entire day.

Guess who the only two were who weren't granted bail?

 

[rgraham666]

When I went to court with K that time, he and this one black guy were the only non-whites there, through the entire day.

Guess who the only two were who weren't granted bail?

My species makes me quite ill at times.

 

[cloudy]

My species makes me quite ill at times.

that's also where I heard the now infamous "he's only another drunk indian" comment from a crown attorney who didn't realize he was speaking to two more indians: his attorney (Mohawk), and me.

 

[rgraham666]

that's also where I heard the now infamous "he's only another drunk indian" comment from a crown attorney who didn't realize he was speaking to two more indians: his attorney (Mohawk), and me.

Better not ever happen to have me accompany you to court then. I'd punch the dumb bastard.

 

[R. Richard]

Not a criticism, I'm genuinely curious, what experience do you have with 'gang members'... why do you claim to know so much?

I know that sounds a bit snotty and accusatory, but I can't find a better way to phrase it, so please accept my assurances that my tone of voice is just interested.

x
V

I have posted the material several times, but let me sum it up.

I lived in what is called the South Central of Los Angeles. The South Central is where the Crips and Bloods gangs originated. The Crips and Bloods are both Negro [black] gangs, who have no use at all for Caucasions [whites.] I am an average sized white guy. I was living in an abandoned factory building and I had four basic choices. 1) Live in a state facility until I was 18 and then get spit out into the streets to live or die as I could. 2) Go somewhere else, where I knew nothing of the lay of the land and starve to death. 3) Let the black gangs kill me. 4) Survive by any means I could use. Items 1), 2) and 3) were stupid, so I was left with 4). I was called 'Whi' Boy. That was like carrying a big neon sign volunteering for item 3). I then got my title changed to SIR [no, I did not ask, I told them,] a title I borrowed from the Marines. Since the black gangs couldn't hack SIR, they tried item 3) again. I survived and got the title 'Wille Green.' Since I am of average size, I had to defend the title Willie Green. I succeded so well that I never had to face the same guy twice for the right to the title. I was helped by a mystery plague that swept South Central. The victims of the plague looked much like a guy who had been beaten to death [pure coincidence.] However, the gangs decided, perhaps due to the plague victim attrition, that I could be part of the 'solution' instead of part of the 'problem.' I could not join a gang, because of racial discrimination. However, the more intelligent gang leaders decided that they would use my talents, rather than continue to try to kill me. I learned a lot about the night by night operation of the nastier LA steet gangs. I aint talkin' theory here.

 

[R. Richard]

Many of you have a problem with the death penalty. I think I understand your concern(s) and I think that you are wrong.

When you go thrown into the kind of slammer they put you in for death penalty offenses, you have three basic choices. 1) Become someone's 'boy.' 2) Try and fail to establish yourself as a man and see item 1). 3) Become a vicious, subhuman animal who can survive at the man level. When a guy who succeeds in making option 3) work is released from prison, he instantly becomes a soft, sweet little honey boy. SUUUUUUURE HE DOES!

It is really not practical to release some guy after several years in the slammer. You can give him money, you can apologize. But you either have a boy or evil superman. Neither boys nor evil supermen work well outside the slammer.

How does an innocent man get thrown into the slammer? Basically he hangs with the wrong people. Someone gets in trouble and he sells out the innocent man to save his own sorry ass. Of course. the DA who railroads him doesn't suspect that the testimony that convicts the innocent man is perjured. No, the DA first consults with Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and Nifong. Only then does he trade what's left of a man's life for one more step up the ladder of success. [By the way, I have a lot of experience as the accused. When I, on several occasions, managed to prove that the testimony against me was perjured, no one gave a damn and the only penalty for the perjurer was that he didn't get his sentence reduced. [Well, the perjurer CLAIMED, that his life was in danger from me.]

 

[rammage]

this is exactly why i dont trust ANYONE anymore. a young person comes up to my door at night saying his tire is flat. I probably would call the cops or just not answer and grab my gun near by. why should i risk it after hearing this story? i've heard all sorts of crazy ways people have gotten to their victims whether it be at night or in broad day light-

in this world you can't even be nice anymore without risking your own life. this is how so many crazy fucktards get to their victims - by asking for help so they can let their guard down.


i think the most important thing in this case, and if i somehow had the power to do this (hehe) i would find try my best to find out who the others involved were. then id put them all in jail so they could get anally raped everynight until they couldnt breathe from crying so hard for an extremely long time. then afterwards theyd live with public humiliation for the rest of their lives. i think they should have a permanent stamp/tattoo on them so everyone would know what kind of a sick bastard they were. this is all of course, my wishful thinking.


i think the death penalty would be appropriate too but i feel its 'too easy' for them. i feel like its letting the person 'move on' in way and its not fair when you see the victims might never be able to move on but they have to live the rest of their lives trying to.

of course theres the argument that people who are like this normally are abused as children. but that does not excuse them from what they DECIDED to do. being abused was something they did not decide to do. THIS is something they DID decide to do. there also really isnt much you can do with this argument (or so i think). i dont know exact numbers, but almost every case i've heard about that has to do with rape, the person is a REPEAT offender before they are caught. i dont know even know what i would do to solve this. i think 1st offense should warrant EXTREME consequences. too many people go to 'rehabilitate' and then come out and do the same thing again.

 

[only_more_so]

this is exactly why i dont trust ANYONE anymore. a young person comes up to my door at night saying his tire is flat. I probably would call the cops or just not answer and grab my gun near by. why should i risk it after hearing this story? i've heard all sorts of crazy ways people have gotten to their victims whether it be at night or in broad day light-

Maybe they should add "asked for help" as an aggravating factor when determining sentancing. If criminals knew that using the "please help me" ploy would tack another 5 years on their sentance, then maybe they would think twice.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

*speechless*

 

[R. Richard]

i think the most important thing in this case, and if i somehow had the power to do this (hehe) i would find try my best to find out who the others involved were. then id put them all in jail so they could get anally raped everynight until they couldnt breathe from crying so hard for an extremely long time. then afterwards theyd live with public humiliation for the rest of their lives. i think they should have a permanent stamp/tattoo on them so everyone would know what kind of a sick bastard they were. this is all of course, my wishful thinking.

You seem to have the idea, probably ingrained by the public school system, that authority exists on a 24/7 everywhere basis. It does not.

If you throw someone in jail [actually it doesn't really work that way in jail, you have to get to a hardcore federal slammer] they basically tend to 1) become a victim [your scenario.] However, when they get out, they can assume a macho image and deny that they were a victim. 2) become a member. They join up with a prison gang and at least stand by while the really bad boys abuse others.] 3) become a really bad boy. The really bad boys don't get abused, they abuse. They become 'booty bandits' and subject the victims to humiliation.

Tattoo them? The tattoo becomes a badge that the victim wears to convince people that he was a really bad boy.

You don't convince people that life is not a jungle by throwing them in a jungle.

 

[SeaCat]

Well today they arrested a third. A fifteen year old kid. They showed him being escorted to the cruiser with a smug smile on his face.

Cat

 

[Wildcard Ky]

Firstly of all, I'm inclined to disbelieve this because of the paper it's printed in. The Guardian has as definite an ideological agenda as Pravda did under the Soviets.

It's not a guardian story. It's an AP story that the guardian re-printed. Guardian is simply the first link that came up when I searched it.

Here's the same article from the Washington Post.

Wash Post

 

[R. Richard]

Well today they arrested a third. A fifteen year old kid. They showed him being escorted to the cruiser with a smug smile on his face.

Cat

In his social circle, being arrested is just another rite of passage. It holds no terror for a 15-year-old. He goes to juvie for a few weeks, maybe 90 days and then he returns to 'da 'hood.' When he gets back, he is a local celebrity for a brief time.

 

[SeaCat]

In his social circle, being arrested is just another rite of passage. It holds no terror for a 15-year-old. He goes to juvie for a few weeks, maybe 90 days and then he returns to 'da 'hood.' When he gets back, he is a local celebrity for a brief time.

Ahhh but now his case is being sent to the Grand Jury so he can be tried and sentenced as an adult. Let's see just how tough he is when he goes to the big boys jail. (Personaly I would like his sentance to be something different. If he is found guilty I believe he should be locked in a small room with the woman and her family members.)

Cat