Things that made you smile today.

[Nina327]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/1c73a54e29e31f6c7014cbcbebf0782c/tumblr_mhcuruR2291rqtjtso1_500.jpg

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

Lets suppose you are right, and this stays in the discussion.
What, exactly, could it possibly accomplish?
The abortion debate in the U.S. has never really been about religion.

It has been, like so many other issues, hijacked by religion. If people can turn the gun debate (thank you, Mike Huckabee) religious, abortion is putting it on easy mode. There are still people - less and less of them, it seems - that make their decisions based on what they hear from the pulpit on Sunday instead of any kind of logical reasoning process. If this can cause some cognitive dissonance in even a small number of people, I still see it as a good thing. It's not going to bring the woman back, obviously, but anything that makes people stop and go, "Maybe the church isn't flawless in it's decisions," whether they'll admit it publicly or not, I'll happily put that in the win column.

 

[Nina327]

could or could not be in poorer taste at the moment. But I think that's why it made me smile even more. http://d3agyjohwahf00.cloudfront.net/images/secret-ingredient.jpg

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

The cognitive dissonance already exists. I mean, how can you assign moral authority to a church that helps people rape children?

More importantly, the entire abortion debate is self-contradictory, and self-defeating.

I'm telling you, this will not sway Catholics at all.
(If anything, they'll just blame Obamacare or something)

The same way you can believe a book that was written during the Iron Age and contradicts itself a couple hundred times is infallible. But that doesn't mean pointing it out isn't going to make people stop and consider. If nothing else, I'm living, breathing proof of that.

Sometimes things don't stick until they do. That doesn't everything should be written off if nothing has worked before.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

And what I am saying is, you have to address the issue for what it is.
I say this because there are proven ways to reduce the number of abortions.
These include comprehensive sex education, and easy access to birth control.
Since virtually none of the so-called pro-life movement supports either of these things, then we have to assume that it isn't about saving 'the unborn'.
And, since there are only two entities involved, the woman and the fetus, and it obviously isn't about the fetus, then it must be about the woman.

You know that, and I know that, but that's not the world they live in. If you exist in a world where abstinence-only education works and condoms are worse than AIDS, then you're not going to believe that those will reduce abortions anymore than a Young Earth Creationist is going to believe the evidence for the age of the earth.

But when your own church comes out to argue that the fetus is not a person, that's something people are going to notice. I'm not saying it's going to end the abortion debate as we know it - if Roe couldn't do it, why on earth would this? - but it's a mark in good column. And one I'll happily take.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

You have WAY more faith in these people than I do.
The contradictions inherent in the church's behavior hasn't done very much.
Raping children barely set off a discussion.
A single court case isn't going to count for much.
If anything.

Barely set off a discussion? In Ireland alone, there was a 9-year investigation by the government, interviewing more than 2200 witnesses for the report. The Los Angeles archdioceses paid out like $600 million in settlements.

I'm not, remotely, saying that this is enough, or that it in any way makes up for what was done for decades, or that we even know the full extent of it (more revelations about what Mahoney in Los Angeles knew just came out the other day), but we cannot sit here and act like there was barely a discussion. Gallup polls bear this out:

The trend in the two lines is clear. While there has been a slight increase in affirmative responses to this question among Protestants, the percentage of Catholics reporting church attendance in the last week has declined, particularly when this December's survey results are compared with the data from 2000.

The same pattern of results is found when we look at the percentage of each religious group that reports attending church every week.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/7453/Catholic-Church-Attendance-Drops-Year-Midst-Scandal.aspx

Also from that same survey:

Four out of 10 Catholics say that they are less likely to contribute money to the Church due to the issue of "sexual abuse of young people by priests." That's up 10 points from March.

That's clearly more than barely a discussion.

That was in 2002, but the story isn't better for Catholics three years later.



Look, I'm not saying that this is a nail in the coffin or is going to have a huge impact, but when 82% of US Catholics already split with their church on the issue of birth control, and when there is a clear downward trend in attendance of Catholic churches, things like this are going to make a difference. It doesn't mean they'll suddenly become atheists or Protestant or start checking our their local mosque, but it does mean that the influence of the church is growing weaker. I don't see any reason why this court case wouldn't fall right in line with the trend, and help it continue.


ETA: And even devout Catholics aren't immune to being critical of the church, which is nice to see.

 

[Nina327]

This discussion made me smile.

 

[Nina327]

(this is how I get him to do all my research for me)
And yet, somehow, abortion rights continue to be violated and circumvented.
Which brings me back to my original statement that this really changes nothing.
(also, leaving the catholic church doesn't even imply a decreasing power of religion in the U.S)
More, the distinction between the child abuse cases and this case is that this case is, shall we say, purely philosophical. The child abuse cases were, well, rape against children that only the most pathetically devoted could try to ignore.

Mischievous Itsy!

 

[wcg207]

When I left the house at 6:45 AM I glanced at the thermometer and saw 47 degrees, that made me smile!

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

(this is how I get him to do all my research for me)
And yet, somehow, abortion rights continue to be violated and circumvented.
Which brings me back to my original statement that this really changes nothing.
(also, leaving the catholic church doesn't even imply a decreasing power of religion in the U.S)
More, the distinction between the child abuse cases and this case is that this case is, shall we say, purely philosophical. The child abuse cases were, well, rape against children that only the most pathetically devoted could try to ignore.

I'm not saying the cases are the same, but you said there was "barely a discussion" with the abuse cases which is factually incorrect.

I would say leaving the Catholic Church, combined with the rise of the "nones," and the changing zeitgeist on a number of social issues, like gay marriage, birth control, etc, do imply a decreasing power. We're still a ridiculously religious nation compared to almost every other first world nation, but we are less so than we once were.

This case is just another crack in their dam. Again, not the nail in the coffin. It's not a silver bullet or the final straw or any of that. But it is one more thing that's going to add to an image problem they clearly have.

Which is why they're trying to get people to "come home."

 

[IvoryTigress]

Being out of my case today. Still might have to stay late, but I'm not stuck in an OR with no phone service

 

[Nina327]

We do not build a society with one piece of stone but many small ones, together. When that society goes through changes it is not all at once but must be done as it was in the first place. One stone at a time.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

We do not build a society with one piece of stone but many small ones, together. When that society goes through changes it is not all at once but must be done as it was in the first place. One stone at a time.

I've always been fascinated by the way society and morality changes. I feel like I'm much closer to the forefront of that than I was at points earlier in my life, but it makes me wonder if I'll be 70 and upset about the changes I see happening then, whatever they may be. I'd hope not, but that's probably the 70 year olds now said when they were my age.

 

[Miss_Vivi]

I've always been fascinated by the way society and morality changes. I feel like I'm much closer to the forefront of that than I was at points earlier in my life, but it makes me wonder if I'll be 70 and upset about the changes I see happening then, whatever they may be. I'd hope not, but that's probably the 70 year olds now said when they were my age.

I've met some pretty progressive 70 year olds. Most of them women. The best of which stood next to me when we protested the genocide awareness project. (Don't google that, it will ruin your day).

Many of them (second/third wavers) couldn't believe that we were still having this conversation about abortion, but were happy to see that feminism lived in our generation.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

I've met some pretty progressing 70 year olds. Most of them women. The best of which stood next to me when we protested the genocide awareness project. (Don't google that, it will ruin your day).

Many of them (second/third wavers) couldn't believe that we were still having this conversation about abortion, but were happy to see that feminism lived in our generation.

Unfortunately, I'm aware of it already.

But yeah, I'd hope that's the type of 70 year old I will be. And I think there's a good chance of that. But how can you know for sure, really?

Of course, it's not a problem I have to worry about for a while, but that hasn't stopped me from thinking about other random things before!

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2f0dee29fa49daa4bced7f79fa009416/tumblr_mha4tbsWBK1s1xqsoo1_500.jpg

 

[Deleted member 1126402]

That is a sloppy cake.

 

[Scuttle Buttin']

That is a sloppy cake.

Everybody can't be Peeta, I guess.

 

[thestruggle]

Everybody can't be Peeta, I guess.

Hee! Getting this reference makes me feel like a dork.

Something that made me smile today? Getting to sleep in 'til six.

 

[Britwitch]

They know...

 

[DarkWarrioress]

Charming (aka CT) has been a recent smile.

 

[yeishia]

They know...

They do indeed

 

[IvoryValentine]

plotting out a new srp with two wonderful writers.

 

[BeautifulDream]

Raccoon Dog!

http://i1144.photobucket.com/albums/o495/beautifuldream1/article2_zps68b9794a.jpg

 

[yeishia]

Not a whole lot

Tomorrow