Thoughts on a "List of Ingredients" in story notes?

That seemed very much like an endorsement of the notion that "any form of author's note or content warning is a self-serving form of pandering to the readers exclusively included in the hopes of achieving high scores and better feedback." It seems reasonable to me to characterise that as a statement about "everybody".

If I have misunderstood what you intended there...well, the effect of what you wrote was to give that impression, and I've been informed that intentions are immaterial. But accuracy does matter to me, so I will nevertheless apologise for any misrepresentation.

In any case, even if you are dropping the more sweeping statements and toning it down to "largely", that still seems like overreach.

Yes, you totally misunderstood. Probably because you wanted to, because you needed to bring a front. Your apology is accepted as heavily as it is qualified.

Your telepathy powers are malfunctioning again.

And fuck off with your front.
 
Haha :) I never did see the Emily Blunt sequel, but I take your point!
I didn't even know there was an Emily Blunt version. But regarding "false advertising:" nanny is a good tag, as long as you don't run afoul of the age-limitation rules. :unsure: It had better be with one of the parents, because I don't think an offspring over the age of eighteen would have a nanny.
 
I didn't even know there was an Emily Blunt version. But regarding "false advertising:" nanny is a good tag, as long as you don't run afoul of the age-limitation rules. It had better be with one of the parents, because I don't think an offspring over the age of eighteen would have a nanny.
They sure as hell do here. That's what this whole thread has been on about!
 
They sure as hell do here. That's what this whole thread has been on about!
Actually the thread drifted into this. But, yeah, another example of Lit "realism." How about a governess too? :rolleyes: I guess you could have the family maid plot, although there were no maids where I grew up. Well, there were a few per diem house-cleaners.
 
Either way it sets a tone of weakness in your first impression with the reader, so I would not do it. You do you.

Interesting how the note I viewed as "probably an American, trying to be friendly, welcoming and cheerful, being chatty with their followers" you see as a "sign of weakness." It's interesting how two people interpret identical words in such different ways, isn't it?

So we agree there. What's your point?
.... My point was that I was confused why you were telling me things you knew I already knew because I'd stated them in the comment you were replying to, but you were telling me like I didn't know when I hadn't asked for that specific information. I was confused by what your point was and what your reason for saying that was. My point was "yeah... what's your point? I'm confused?" It was a confused question.


So again, what's your point?
To be honest, I'm kinda surprised that you don't know what my point is. I honestly thought that you did. However, you did ask what my point is so I'll do the polite thing and answer:

My point (which was stated in my original post, the one you replied to, and also my second post, which you also replied to) is people have strong feelings either way. Some people like this, some people don't, and that the OP should do what's right to them.

My additional point in the paragraph you quoted, is that we can't know other people's intentions, and it's best not to insulate people are lying about their own intentions for no reason and without proof. Meaning I think we should believe what the OP has stated in regards to their intentions, unless we actually have proof to the contrary.
 
Interesting how the note I viewed as "probably an American, trying to be friendly, welcoming and cheerful, being chatty with their followers" you see as a "sign of weakness." It's interesting how two people interpret identical words in such different ways, isn't it?


.... My point was that I was confused why you were telling me things you knew I already knew because I'd stated them in the comment you were replying to, but you were telling me like I didn't know when I hadn't asked for that specific information. I was confused by what your point was and what your reason for saying that was. My point was "yeah... what's your point? I'm confused?" It was a confused question.



To be honest, I'm kinda surprised that you don't know what my point is. I honestly thought that you did. However, you did ask what my point is so I'll do the polite thing and answer:

My point (which was stated in my original post, the one you replied to, and also my second post, which you also replied to) is people have strong feelings either way. Some people like this, some people don't, and that the OP should do what's right to them.

My additional point in the paragraph you quoted, is that we can't know other people's intentions, and it's best not to insulate people are lying about their own intentions for no reason and without proof. Meaning I think we should believe what the OP has stated in regards to their intentions, unless we actually have proof to the contrary.

One of the best things about ‘setting the tone’ with a primer is you get rid of a lot of the people you have no interest in connecting with anyway. 😜 👍
 
One of the best things about ‘setting the tone’ with a primer is you get rid of a lot of the people you have no interest in connecting with anyway. 😜 👍
Oh no, "happy holidays" scares people off 🙈 😬 haha joke, it's ok, I don't usually randomly go round writing that because it's not my habit/culture, but it doesn't scare me off either.
 
I checked out the particular instance that upset the OP, and I think this is a case where this particular reader is being ridiculous, and the OP should feel no sense of regret or responsibility for catering to the sensibilities of this person. The OP did all she was required to do with her choice of title, tagline, and tags. The category selected--Erotic Couplings--could be different, because it's a bland category that often features stories lacking in "edgier" content. But the rest of the information provided was, I think, sufficient, and in this case I think being guilted into an obligation to do more amounts to unnecessary hand-holding. No author is required to do that.

The title of the story is "You're a switch, Penny Thompson!" It already has been established in previous chapters that the main character is a futunari and uses her "talents" in interesting and edgy ways. The tagline is "Futunari needs to dominate an older woman, therapeutically." Some of the tags are "futunari," "domination," and "therapy."

Sure enough, that's what the story's about. Anybody paying attention will know, before reading a word, that this is not going to be an ordinary therapy session. While the patient in the story "consents" to the treatment, and does so throughout the session, the patient-therapist relationship dynamic renders the consent suspect. That's exactly what gives the story its kinky edge.

The therapy session gets weird right from the beginning, less than a quarter of the way into the story. Any half-aware reader who might be triggered by the coming content is on full notice of what's coming and can pull out anytime.
I really appreciate this close reading of the situation and your opinion on it! That does make me feel quite a bit better about this specific incident, to be honest :giggle: It's entirely possible that the comment in question was in bad faith.

It doesn't change my overall viewpoint, though. It won't cause me any burden or harm to provide a very gentle content description at the top of my stories going forward. And if it helps one reader avoid something they don't want to read or that might cause them harm, it's worth it to me.

I don't care if that makes me soft and squishy. I am soft and squishy. I care about my readers. Not because I want to pander to their every whim, and not because I'm worried about ratings and points. Because they're people at the other end of the screen, choosing to connect with me via very intimate thoughts and emotions, and I'm going to try and treat them accordingly :giggle:
 
I think it would be cute if you could find a way to format an ingredients list so that it looked like a recipe: same-sex bondage 1/4 cup, a pinch of anal play, etc. That might even help with the problem of readers not really paying any attention to author's notes at the beginning of a story.

As to whether or not you should do it, I think it's entirely up to you. If you want to do it, then do it.

edited to add: I think a list for my WIP might look like

2 cups of Romance, sifted.
1/2 cup impregnation fetish
1 tablespoon of bondage

stir carefully and bake at 98.6F. Serves two.
Not gonna lie, I kind of adore that!
 
My additional point in the paragraph you quoted, is that we can't know other people's intentions, and it's best not to insulate people are lying about their own intentions for no reason and without proof. Meaning I think we should believe what the OP has stated in regards to their intentions, unless we actually have proof to the contrary.

Your intent has no bearing on the effect.
 
One of the best things about ‘setting the tone’ with a primer is you get rid of a lot of the people you have no interest in connecting with anyway. 😜 👍

Yes, the people who might down vote you. This really is pandering both in intent and effect. Not only pandering but actually pandering to people who might not like your story rather than those who might like it. This is 100% score and feedback protection and is weak scaredy-cat writing. I prefer to write brave and I highly recommend to anyone else to do same. It's intensely rewarding regardless of the feedback that you might get, so it's bullet proof. :)
 
Yes, the people who might down vote you. This really is pandering both in intent and effect. Not only pandering but actually pandering to people who might not like your story rather than those who might like it. This is 100% score and feedback protection and is weak scaredy-cat writing. I prefer to write brave and I highly recommend to anyone else to do same. It's intensely rewarding regardless of the feedback that you might get, so it's bullet proof. :)

You actually believe what you think, don’t you?

You sound like someone saying the only reason a girl would wear a short skirt is because she wants to attract attention.

What the fuck is brave about writing on an anonymous porn site?

Really, @pink_silk_glove, who TF are you to call anyone else’s motivation to write or connect with any particular audience brave or cowardly based on your opinion and narrow perspective? GFY.
 
Your intent has no bearing on the effect.
I don't believe that. But if it is true then there'd be no reason to not believe the op's intent. At any rate, no one has provided any evidence of the effect, only opinions.

If there is statistical evidence that 25% of people dislike content information and 5% do, I haven't seen it. If there's stastical evidence that the 5% outvote the 25% I've not seen it. You can hold these things as opinion, and I'll believe you believe them, but without proof you cannot change my opinion.

As to brave, I post here anonymously. Aside from doxing me, there's nothing a reader can do to harm me if they don't like my story and doxing seems an unlikely outcome. Low scores and stupid comments don't hurt me. If they did, I'd be turning off scores or deleting comments and I'd be editing my crappy shit before I post it. I wouldn't be currently working on a story that I think most people here will dislike and I most certainly wouldn't one bomb my own story "out of curiosity" to see if this caused lower scores. (Suprisingly, it didn't seem to, but it has much lower feedback and views.)

So no, nothing I post is brave, because I don't intend on giving up my anomonity it never can be brave.
 
You actually believe what you think, don’t you?

You sound like someone saying the only reason a girl would wear a short skirt is because she wants to attract attention.

What the fuck is brave about writing on an anonymous porn site?

Really, @pink_silk_glove, who TF are you to call anyone else’s motivation to write or connect with any particular audience brave or cowardly based on your opinion and narrow perspective? GFY.

I am who the fuck I am. If you're offended by that, that's your problem. We're discussing a topic and I'm providing my views. If internet discussion gets you this fucking butthurt, wait until you see the real world.
 
So, out of curiosity, I took a little look at story scores/vs author's notes.

I looked at the recent stories (starting with the ones posted yesterday, working my way backwards) of my chosen category and looked at each story in turn. I noted if they had an author's note, what the score was, and some detail about comments.

I only got as far as 21 stories before I got bored. This isn't anywhere close enough to be a statistical sample, however I got bored at this point, so I thought I'd share what I have.


Popularity of using notes:
5 stories had author's notes, 16 did not. Safe to say, MOST authors sampled did NOT use a note.

Scores:
5 stories had a red "H" indicating a score of 4.5 or greater. 100% of these stories did NOT use a note. 0% of stories with an author's note had a red "H"

Stories with an author's note had an average (mean) score of 3.8
Stories without an author's note had an average (mean) score of 4.3

So stories with an author's note scored lower than stories without.

Comments.
It's important to note that comments can be deleted by the author and, apparently, some do. So this obviously impacts the data.

There were 31 comments in total. 2 were abusive. My guideline for abusive was "attacks the author" instead of (or as well as) "critiquing the story". Of these, one was on a story with an author's note and one was on a story which didn't have one.

100% of stories with more than one positive comment did not have an author's note.

Of stories with negative but not abusive comments, two had a note and four did not.

Conclusion:
This is far from a statistical sample, so therefore I can't really draw any conclusion, however the data doesn't, so far, support the notion that putting an (annoying?) author's note increases scores.

Thus concludes my entry to the dull men's club. Hopefully someone here is even duller than I and wants to trawl through even more stories, or already has and can share their data :)
 
I don't believe in trigger warnings. Anybody who reads something of mine, and doesn't like it for any reason; that's their own fault for reading it. Don't look at the tags... not my fault.
 
I think I've included a warning twice. Once was because the story involved pretty severe domestic violence, self harm, and suicidal ideation and attempts. The other time was to explain that the story was a psychological horror based on human reaction to shared trauma and not a monster/slasher/gore heavy horror.

Beyond that? Never felt the need for any sorta author's note.

Only reason I included those was because I made myself nauseous writing a couple of the scenes and I'm pretty resilient about that kind of thing, so I thought it made sense to give a heads up with "Hey, just want you to know that this story gets dark and heavy, read with caution."

My opinion is: it's your story, they're your readers, do what feels right to you.

I'm always going to err on the side of "Would I want to know about this before jumping in?" Particularly if it's a long story, which my two with warnings were.
 
For themed competition entries, people only get to see the title and author name before clicking on a story - no description and not even a category. Given I like the fact that the themed comps can attract more readers to a story, giving people the same info they'd get from other Lit stories seems only fair - I don't want to deter people from exploring the competition entries in future.

I also don't want to deter potential readers just because they don't know about the tagging system or how to find the tags if they've come into the story via a different route to usual. Just like the blurb on the back of a book, a longer description at the top of a story can serve as advertising. Especially if your story doesn't really fit in a Lit category and you want to pique people's interest and persuade anyone who might be interested to read.

E.g. "He's a gay virgin. She's a crap lesbian or a filthy bisexual, depending on who you ask. It's late, and she's out of milk."

I admit I have a bit of a kink for eliciting comments like "I'm straight/really not interested in xxx, but I loved this." Can't get those without getting readers!
 
The issue of an author's note with warnings of what's to come is ... interesting.

Some see it as self-promoting. But so what? Why not? There's nothing wrong with wanting people to better enjoy your story.

Some see the tags as being sufficient. But I tend to look at the category, title, and one-line description to pick a story to read. Once I've clicked to open a new story, I feel I'm committed to at least start reading it. The tags don't show up unless I go that extra step of looking for them. Tags are there primarily to allow searching for those stories. Otherwise, they'd be more prominently displayed BEFORE we award the author with one more view by clicking on it.

Some see it as unnecessary or playing to the nanny state of warning overly sensitive readers. But again, why not? It seems to me that by being offended by such warnings, that's being overly sensitive. Not everyone enjoys or appreciates every kink, and to be surprised by one after investing their time reading the story is just asking for a downvote.

"Here's a nice, warm, loving romance story to read while cuddling by the fireplace ..." (and an hour into reading, you find the husband castrated and being fucked in the ass.) That's "bait & switch".

I have my two "Aftermath..." stories, which includes the discussions of the wife's violent abduction and abuse. I thought it VERY appropriate to warn people up front of that content, because for some, just reading about such things might re-open old wounds.

IMO, those criticizing such warnings as "excessive nanny state" are just themselves trying to bait others into reading their own preferred kinks.
 
It doesn't change my overall viewpoint, though. It won't cause me any burden or harm to provide a very gentle content description at the top of my stories going forward. And if it helps one reader avoid something they don't want to read or that might cause them harm, it's worth it to me.

I don't care if that makes me soft and squishy. I am soft and squishy. I care about my readers. Not because I want to pander to their every whim, and not because I'm worried about ratings and points. Because they're people at the other end of the screen, choosing to connect with me via very intimate thoughts and emotions, and I'm going to try and treat them accordingly :giggle:

I think that's fine. My attitude on this subject has evolved. I'd describe it as permissive rather than judgmental. There's room for people to have different attitudes on this subject. What gets my dander up is people like the one who left the nasty and unwarranted comment on your story, telling you what to do, or when the belief that we have a duty to protect others from being offended in every possible way gets out of control. Specific stories and situations require judgment calls.
 
Some see it as unnecessary or playing to the nanny state of warning overly sensitive readers. But again, why not? It seems to me that by being offended by such warnings, that's being overly sensitive.

Who said that the content warning was offensive? It's not offensive, it's weak. What it tells the reader is "there is something in this story that you might not like, so please don;t read it, or at least read it the right way." If the author is afraid that people won;t like it, that is a lack of confidence. If the author is not confident ion what he wrote, why should I read it? It's just not a good first impression at all. It does nothing to grab or excite the reader, In fact it does the opposite. Whether the author intends this or not that is the vibe that is sent. Now of course not all readers pick up on that vibe, but those who do far outnumber those who get squicked by some surprise. Yet these writers who insist on "being helpful and polite to the readers" feel the need to pander to people who aren't into what they wrote, which is far more paranoid than those who pander to readers who actually are into their themes. Instead of trying to be popular (which generally downgrades imagination and plot itself), they are trying to not be unpopular. I mean, do as you like but as far as I'm concerned it's just silly.
 
When it comes to prefaces, author's notes, content warnings or what have you, I wonder how much of the attitude towards them is purely incidental.

There is currently no feature on the site that allows you to provide such an introductory text. We can imagine a reality where such feature exists, however, and where every story can have an additional, optional, 100-200 word preface that's displayed in a separate box above the story content. Perhaps it is also displayed on hovering over the story list, or in other places such as the author page if the author chooses to do so.

Would your stance on filling out this optional field be the same as it is on adding the preface "manually", i.e., inside the story content itself?

And whatever your answer is, would it be the same if you repeated the same exercise for a hypothetical version of Lit where, say, tags or story descriptions are absent, and this absence needs to be worked around by putting them in the story text itself?
 
I am who the fuck I am. If you're offended by that, that's your problem. We're discussing a topic and I'm providing my views. If internet discussion gets you this fucking butthurt, wait until you see the real world.

I’m not offended by you anymore than I’m offended by someone who intentionally farts in an elevator. You’re just inconsiderate and seem to like your own smell and feel some compunction to share it.
 
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