Time for more than one category option?

[SinderellaSin]

Is it about time Literotica offered you the chance to publish in more than one category?

I'm not the only one who writes stories in multiple categories, am I? At the moment my main character is in Amsterdam fucking her boss, later fulfilling his wife's fantasy, the wife is tied up. Only for Summer to offer him to fuck her anally. So which category? And that's only two-thirds through the story.

For my destination hedonism series, the last part has been put into group sex. The amount of reading is very low. Yet it is interracial and partly based on non-consent/reluctance. I guess there are pros and cons to this idea. It would give authors a wider base for readership.

I guess it would be a bit like tags. Tagged into different genres.

Just a thought. Maybe I just like more people reading my stories.

Sin x

 

[SimonDoom]

I understand the logic of it, but I don't think it's ever going to happen. It doesn't work with the Site's policies, and I don't think the Site would consider it as helpful to readers. It would dramatically increase the number of stories posted in each category each day. More stories to wade through to find those one wants to read.

 

[lovecraft68]

This could be a great feature but never going to happen.

What you're left with is going with the trump category for each chapter.

If you're not familiar the big three trumps are Non con-which you mentioned-incest and GM. Anal can be put pretty much anywhere, and if the bondage isn't that heavy you don't necessarily need to use BDSM. Interracial might be best put in that category due how put off a lot of people get with the fetishizing of it anywhere but its home category.

Good luck with all this because I'm getting confused just making suggestions.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I've been proposing layered categories for a while. Kind of like Tags but static list, not free form. In Transgender the subcategories could be things like Romance, Forced Feminization, Futa, Sissy, etc.

 

[old_prof]

I've been playing with erotxt, another erotica site. (Don't go there if you want anyone to read your stories at this point; they lack almost any readers, yet at least. They started with a catchy system very closely based on here originally, but swapped to a much more rational system, with multi-level themes, then kinks added in as predefined tags. They then allow free text tags. It seems like a good system.

But, as several people here have already opined, I do not see a world where this site will make such a change. The way categories work here is pretty deeply ingrained in everything.

 

[Voboy]

Anal can be put pretty much anywhere

...I mean, can it? Can it really?

It's usually put in the butt.

 

[lovecraft68]

...I mean, can it? Can it really?

It's usually put in the butt.

You can put it in the butt anywhere

Although that one time in church had some people upset.

 

[Ianus4]

It is natural and understandable for writers to want as many people as possible to read their work. However, try to think from the perspective of your potential readers.
Readers usually follow several categories. In the current structure, unless they follow a particular author, they will find new stories in their preferred categories. If a story (or chapter) belonged to multiple categories, it would appear in all those categories, so ultimately, ten to twenty times as many new stories would appear in each category, making it impossible to follow and reducing the audience of each story.
A lot has been written about categorization. Basically, all of them come to the conclusion that you have to think the other way around. Try to ensure that those who are sensitive to a particular topic/fetish should NOT have to read it.
Opinions differ on what these sensitive topics are. They may include non-con, gay male, incest, non-human, or certain fetishes, but LW shows that the issue of monogamy/polygamy (swinger, sharing, etc.) also belongs among them.
Personal preferences vary greatly, so try to target readers who are likely to enjoy reading your story.

 

[If_Only_]

I've been proposing layered categories for a while. Kind of like Tags but static list, not free form. In Transgender the subcategories could be things like Romance, Forced Feminization, Futa, Sissy, etc.

Mothers take their 'daughters' to a pageant?

 

[Ianus4]

I've been proposing layered categories for a while. Kind of like Tags but static list, not free form. In Transgender the subcategories could be things like Romance, Forced Feminization, Futa, Sissy, etc.

A matrix-like categorization would be necessary, since there are also explicitly romantic stories in the futa subgenre, for example. It has long been a source of pain for me that romance and smut are mixed together in one category, and the inconsistent tagging makes it almost impossible to navigate.
But in general, I have noticed that categorization has deteriorated terribly in recent times. Everyone is afraid of trump categories, so they put their trump-themed stories in another category that is considered "safer," thereby ruining the experience of readers who want to avoid trump stories.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

That's not gonna happen. A number of erotica sites don't even do that. And that's what the tags are supposed to help.

 

[PennyThompson]

I've been playing with erotxt, another erotica site. (Don't go there if you want anyone to read your stories at this point; they lack almost any readers, yet at least. They started with a catchy system very closely based on here originally, but swapped to a much more rational system, with multi-level themes, then kinks added in as predefined tags. They then allow free text tags. It seems like a good system.

But, as several people here have already opined, I do not see a world where this site will make such a change. The way categories work here is pretty deeply ingrained in everything.

Yep, I really like erotxt's category system.

The base categories are focused on relational dynamics. Romance/Intimacy, BDSM, Fetish Focus, Ethical Non-Monogamy, Infidelity (splitting those two categories apart could instantly improve the LW culture, imo), Taboo, etc.

Then it also allows you to select a secondary category if you want, so you could have a Fetish/Taboo story, a Romance/BDSM story, etc.

And THEN separately there are "facets" for gender and orientation, character pairings and combinations, setting (modern, historical, fantastical), heat level, and a few other options.

So you can have a Romance/Intimacy-Fetish Lesbian Historical Sex-Heavy story, and the category and facets will put it in the appropriate places!

 

[IWroteThis]

I got shouted down the last time I suggested such a reader-friendly idea here…

The combination of selecting multiple pre-defined categories while still adding free-form tags is very powerful, especially if you upgrade the search function to support the inclusion and exclusion of specific categories. Another benefit is that is relieves the pressure of a ten tag limit since you no longer have to waste tag slots with additional categories.

I agree it's unlikely to happen here, but it's nothing revolutionary. It's in use on a lot of other sites.

 

[RejectReality]

Being listed in every category for which a story has that category's kink ain't going to happen. That's a logistical nightmare for the site, confusing for readers, and would end up pissing them off. People are inevitably going to assign a story to anal when it has a two paragraph anal scene out of a 50k word story. Nevermind what the LW crew are going to do to all the naive people who would tick that box. Or the lesbian sex readers when a single girl-girl scene in the story gets the rest that they have no interest in or even a visceral aversion to shoved into their face.

What we really need is a set of universal tags. I'm not saying to take away free-form, but a reasonable list of universal tags would make finding and sorting stories easier for everyone.

Then you've got the absolute mountain of stories from the far-flung past that will have none of these universal tags assigned, and never will because the authors are long gone from here and/or this mortal coil. You could crowd-source at the end of the story it and automate it. 5 readers say this needs the anal tag, automatically assign it. 5 people say this story uses the anal tag and shouldn't, then remove it. Far from perfect, but it would at least be something.

 

[anthrodisiac]

So you can have a Romance/Intimacy-Fetish Lesbian Historical Sex-Heavy story, and the category and facets will put it in the appropriate places!

Or a Romance/Intimacy-Fetish Lesbian Historical Sex-Heavy story involving a caracal and a serval Meow.

 

[IWroteThis]

Being listed in every category for which a story has that category's kink ain't going to happen.

I agree with you so far…

That's a logistical nightmare for the site,

To make the initial code changes, perhaps, just like any other significant change would be. However, once the change is made, it's very simple to maintain.

confusing for readers,

Nope, unless Literotica has a dumber audience than all of the sites that do it.

and would end up pissing them off.

Why? It doesn't seem to piss them off anywhere else. On the other hand, the current system here sure pisses some of them off with surprise crossovers.

People are inevitably going to assign a story to anal when it has a two paragraph anal scene out of a 50k word story.

Why, exactly, is that a bad thing? Truth in advertising is a good thing. Now, under the current system, if they decided to put it in Anal as the trump category, yeah, that could be a bad thing.

Nevermind what the LW crew are going to do to all the naive people who would tick that box.

But imagine how much less drama the category could have if readers could click a couple of boxes to exclude the ones also categorized as Gay Male or Fetish from the story list!

Or the lesbian sex readers when a single girl-girl scene in the story gets the rest that they have no interest in or even a visceral aversion to shoved into their face.

Or, the other side of the coin, where people who have no interest in or even a visceral aversion to Lesbian sex have it shoved in their face by surprise. Why don't you care about them?

What we really need is a set of universal tags. I'm not saying to take away free-form, but a reasonable list of universal tags would make finding and sorting stories easier for everyone.

Wow, that sounds a lot like what was suggested, but not as good…

You see, a big problem with this approach is the same problem the current tag system suffers from. You can't see the tags until after you click on the story. Categories are visible before you click.

Then you've got the absolute mountain of stories from the far-flung past that will have none of these universal tags assigned, and never will because the authors are long gone from here and/or this mortal coil. You could crowd-source at the end of the story it and automate it. 5 readers say this needs the anal tag, automatically assign it. 5 people say this story uses the anal tag and shouldn't, then remove it. Far from perfect, but it would at least be something.

And? Leaving old stories with just a single category breaks nothing, especially since the inclusion/exclusion of specific categories will continue to remain at the writer's discretion. Nobody will be forced to pick multiple categories.

If you feel the need to try and update those old stories, I can see an easy way to map certain tags to corresponding categories.

The bottom line is, leaving a worse system in place because a better one isn't perfect just ensures the site is not as good as it could be.

 

[RejectReality]

I agree with you so far…


To make the initial code changes, perhaps, just like any other significant change would be. However, once the change is made, it's very simple to maintain.


Nope, unless Literotica has a dumber audience than all of the sites that do it.


Why? It doesn't seem to piss them off anywhere else. On the other hand, the current system here sure pisses some of them off with surprise crossovers.


Why, exactly, is that a bad thing? Truth in advertising is a good thing. Now, under the current system, if they decided to put it in Anal as the trump category, yeah, that could be a bad thing.


But imagine how much less drama the category could have if readers could click a couple of boxes to exclude the ones also categorized as Gay Male or Fetish from the story list!


Or, the other side of the coin, where people who have no interest in or even a visceral aversion to Lesbian sex have it shoved in their face by surprise. Why don't you care about them?


Wow, that sounds a lot like what was suggested, but not as good…

You see, a big problem with this approach is the same problem the current tag system suffers from. You can't see the tags until after you click on the story. Categories are visible before you click.


And? Leaving old stories with just a single category breaks nothing, especially since the inclusion/exclusion of specific categories will continue to remain at the writer's discretion. Nobody will be forced to pick multiple categories.

If you feel the need to try and update those old stories, I can see an easy way to map certain tags to corresponding categories.

The bottom line is, leaving a worse system in place because a better one isn't perfect just ensures the site is not as good as it could be.

How did those other sites start?

You've got a readership here that's accustomed to very narrow kinks. You can't just start mixing things and expect them to accept it gracefully. These categories are established, and the readerships have collectively defined their own rules about what is and is not acceptable to them. If you start allowing authors to willy-nilly assign other categories, a lot of them ( especially newer authors ) are going to treat them like tags, and they're not tags. They're also going to use as many categories as possible, stretching things to the absolute limit looking for more exposure. It's going to cause the readership of the various categories to feel as if they're being invaded by stories that have absolutely zero appeal to them, making it harder to find things that do.

I agree that the tags are of little help for selection as they are presented today, and if still hidden behind a click, universal tags wouldn't be any more helpful. The difference is that it's a change that's not a fundamental reorganization of everything the readers have come to expect. You standardize most of the tags, make them more prominent at the initial points of selection such as the new story lists, and hopefully give readers the option to exclude/prioritize based upon them. Readers can continue to select exactly as they do now, or adopt the additional criteria as a supplement.

Allowing selection of multiple categories is akin to tearing the site apart and putting it back together again in a way the readers don't recognize, and they will revolt.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I’m good with the existing category and tag system.

 

[Britva415]

What we really need is a set of universal tags. I'm not saying to take away free-form

What do you have in mind? How do you make (and enforce) "universal" tags without taking away the ones you're calling "free-form?" How do you make "two kinds of tags" useful to readers?

 

[alohadave]

What do you have in mind? How do you make (and enforce) "universal" tags without taking away the ones you're calling "free-form?" How do you make "two kinds of tags" useful to readers?

When you submit a story, you can check box from a set of premade tags. In another field, type in whatever tags you like.

 

[NotWise]

Is it about time Literotica offered you the chance to publish in more than one category?

I'm not the only one who writes stories in multiple categories, am I? At the moment my main character is in Amsterdam fucking her boss, later fulfilling his wife's fantasy, the wife is tied up. Only for Summer to offer him to fuck her anally. So which category? And that's only two-thirds through the story.

For my destination hedonism series, the last part has been put into group sex. The amount of reading is very low. Yet it is interracial and partly based on non-consent/reluctance. I guess there are pros and cons to this idea. It would give authors a wider base for readership.

I guess it would be a bit like tags. Tagged into different genres.

Just a thought. Maybe I just like more people reading my stories.

Sin x

Cross-posting in different categories is open to abuse. I visit a site where that's allowed, and there people will cross-post into popular categories to get attention even if the category isn't relevant. As a result, the popular categories are fairly useless for people with a specific interest in those categories.

 

[Bamagan]

Even if there was close to a consensus on the merits of a new categorization scheme for new stories, there is a catalog of almost 700,000 stories at Literotica, stretching back more than 25 years. They would either need to convert those to the new scheme or live with having two archives with different mechanics. In the case of multiple archives, they'd probably also need to decide if the legacy system can still receive new submissions, since just about any change will result in some people who simply refuse to adopt the new protocols (there are plenty of folks here in the forum that still prefer the 'classic' interface to the 'modern' one, for example). That might placate whatever percentage hate the new system, but it could be a bit of a headache for readers trying to find content.

If they decide they need to migrate everything to the new system, that's a huge amount of work. Active authors could help some by converting their own stories, but it's not clear how many of the 700k are part of their catalogs, and you can be confident that not everyone will bother. Many of the authors who submitted them are inactive or deceased, so the site would have to figure out a way to get their stories done; I think that would probably be at least 250k stories, and perhaps considerably more. As Literotica seems to be a business of some kind, it probably can't legally accept volunteers to do the work of updating the archives (aside from their own stories), although I'm certainly no tax expert. If that's the case, they'd have to hire staff or try to automate the process and hope it works better than the one they used to generate tags on old stories.

For the record, I would like to see a more hierarchical and logical category system here. But as long as the archive is continuing to grow, I don't think it's technically feasible for them to attempt a change of that magnitude. Maybe they could do it in less than a year if they paused new submissions, but that might seem like the nuclear option to them.

 

[ChuckWolf]

Very reasonable request, but I feel like that if the site could be updated to allow a story to be included in multiple categories (say 3?), then that would have happened already.

 

[TheLobster]

I've been playing with erotxt, another erotica site. (Don't go there if you want anyone to read your stories at this point; they lack almost any readers, yet at least. They started with a catchy system very closely based on here originally, but swapped to a much more rational system, with multi-level themes, then kinks added in as predefined tags. They then allow free text tags. It seems like a good system.

But, as several people here have already opined, I do not see a world where this site will make such a change. The way categories work here is pretty deeply ingrained in everything.

)

There, closed now! I know it's been a month but it just had to be done; otherwise, everyone's valuable remarks on the subject would remain mere parentheticals.