Time to Abolish Barbarism Once and For All

[milehighcityman]

I guess I would say i am in favor of capital punishment. I think the chance of an innocent person being executed in the US is virtually non-existent and this time. With DNA, cameras, phones, increased scrutiny, I just dont see it happening. I have looked through the lists of claimed innocents executed in the US in the modern era and I dont think those guys were innocent. Their cases are presented in ways that makes a reader say "oh my God, this man got railroaded." But a deeper look shows there was plenty of evidence against them. Or its a case of where the media claims he wasn't the shooter, etc but his buddy was. It makes little difference actually due to felony murder statutes. So I don't think any innocents have been executed since the reinstatement of capital punishment in the US.

I often hear the arugment that we are the only nation in the West still doing it, "even Venezuela and Cuba" have eliminated it. Thats a false argument I think. Executions in the US are only after extensive investigation, probably cause, due process, legal representation, trial by peers, numerous appeals and public scrutiny. In countries like Venezuela do you think the state doesn't execute people? Google around a bit and there are tons of stories and videos of police executing people in lots countries where there is no capital punishment. Its just done in secret, with no trial and no due process. Having legal capital punishment helps to prevent these sort of things.

Japan executes prisoners and in fact has stepped up executions. Something like 80-85% support it there. And I have seen polls from European countries where support to bring it back is around 50%.

I hate that it is necessary, but I think it is a tool that a prosecutor should have available to him.

 

[jaF0]

I think the chance of an innocent person being executed in the US is virtually non-existent and this time.

I think you're absolutely wrong and out of touch. Wrongful convictions are on the increase and the misapplication of DNA technology is largely to blame.

it, "even Venezuela and Cuba" have eliminated it. Thats a false argument I think.

Reading the links above will show that your belief is what is false.

 

[Chris_Michael]

Soooooo.... bringing Muslims here is a good idea why again? I totally don't understand the logic behind supporting Muslims, shitting on Christians, and wanting MORE religion in our country.

And anytime this question is brought up, somebody responds with "Well Conservatives and Christians do it." Yeah, you guys have been fighting that for decades.

It boils down to the fact that you want to fight the bigotry and intolerance and, at the same time, accept a group of people who's religion is founded on bigotry and intolerance. The stupidity of the left just blows my fucking mind.

And when I say "Kick Christians out" in response, it's like "Oh you don't want freedom of speech?" No, my entire point is that I don't give a shit about Christians. I'm not affiliated with Christianity. So you can dismantle their religion.

"herp derp but let's accept Muslims because we're not bigots.... we're just fucking retarded..."

 

[The_Trouvere]

I am an enthusiast for capital punishment. I want it to be slow, painful,
and humiliating.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I am an enthusiast for capital punishment. I want it to be slow, painful,
and humiliating.

I feel the same way, but only for the most heinous criminal. Ted Bundy was a good example and so were Jeffrey Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh and some others.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Dahmer and his ilk are just plain sick in the head. You can't execute mentally deranged folk. Cold blooded killers during robberies maybe. But not the real sickos. McVeigh yes, Dahmer no. Cannibals and serial child rapists are sick. Can't help themselves. Lock them up for life yes but you can't kill insane people. Not all serial killers are that sick. Paul Bernarndo is an example of quite rational yet evil.

So you end up being merciful to real deranged sickos and killing professional killers or those who don't quite cross the line into insanity.

Doesn't work as a deterrent either. Lead by example and don't kill. Even if incarceration costs are outrageous. US prisons are for profit anyways. You privatize an aspect of the judicial system might as well keep them alive and breathing for many many years.

 

[Chris_Michael]

Dahmer and his ilk are just plain sick in the head. You can't execute mentally deranged folk. Cold blooded killers during robberies maybe. But not the real sickos. McVeigh yes, Dahmer no. Cannibals and serial child rapists are sick. Can't help themselves. Lock them up for life yes but you can't kill insane people. Not all serial killers are that sick. Paul Bernarndo is an example of quite rational yet evil.

So you end up being merciful to real deranged sickos and killing professional killers or those who don't quite cross the line into insanity.

Doesn't work as a deterrent either. Lead by example and don't kill. Even if incarceration costs are outrageous. US prisons are for profit anyways. You privatize an aspect of the judicial system might as well keep them alive and breathing for many many years.

Yep. The biggest winners in prison sentences (even deathrow) are 1. The privatized prisons and 2. lawyers and the court. All end up with fat wallets while the American citizens pay for this corruption.

There is not one thing in America not touched by major corruption. What incentive do Americans have to continue this bullshit? I have none.

Well, we don't want to be homeless! Yeah, America doesn't either. It's illegal to be homeless. You cannot fish or hunt for your own food without a permit. You can't live off the land because if somebody doesn't own the land, the state owns the land, and you aren't allowed to live there.

In America, you cannot live off the grid. You cannot make any choices for yourself. Either you live the way America wants you to live or you live in jails or prisons.

 

[phrodeau]

Soooooo.... bringing Muslims here is a good idea why again? I totally don't understand the logic behind supporting Muslims, shitting on Christians, and wanting MORE religion in our country.

And anytime this question is brought up, somebody responds with "Well Conservatives and Christians do it." Yeah, you guys have been fighting that for decades.

It boils down to the fact that you want to fight the bigotry and intolerance and, at the same time, accept a group of people who's religion is founded on bigotry and intolerance. The stupidity of the left just blows my fucking mind.

And when I say "Kick Christians out" in response, it's like "Oh you don't want freedom of speech?" No, my entire point is that I don't give a shit about Christians. I'm not affiliated with Christianity. So you can dismantle their religion.

"herp derp but let's accept Muslims because we're not bigots.... we're just fucking retarded..."

If you want to keep out a certain group of people, that means you're the one who's bigoted and intolerant.

I think you need to flush your brain and start again.

 

[jaF0]

In America, you cannot live off the grid.

Sure you can. Lots of people do it in the rural west. There are places 'too far' for utilities to run power lines.

 

[Chris_Michael]

If you want to keep out a certain group of people, that means you're the one who's bigoted and intolerant.

I think you need to flush your brain and start again.

Yeah, tell that to the Native Americans when us white people conquered them, killed them, and stole their land.

I'm glad they were so accepting of our barbarism.

 

[phrodeau]

Yeah, tell that to the Native Americans when us white people conquered them, killed them, and stole their land.

I'm glad they were so accepting of our barbarism.

Is that how you see yourself? As someone in danger of losing his land to Muslim invaders? You're worse than my previous assessment of you.

 

[milehighcityman]

Dahmer and his ilk are just plain sick in the head. You can't execute mentally deranged folk. Cold blooded killers during robberies maybe. But not the real sickos. McVeigh yes, Dahmer no. Cannibals and serial child rapists are sick. Can't help themselves. Lock them up for life yes but you can't kill insane people. Not all serial killers are that sick. Paul Bernarndo is an example of quite rational yet evil.

So you end up being merciful to real deranged sickos and killing professional killers or those who don't quite cross the line into insanity.

Doesn't work as a deterrent either. Lead by example and don't kill. Even if incarceration costs are outrageous. US prisons are for profit anyways. You privatize an aspect of the judicial system might as well keep them alive and breathing for many many years.

If I remember correct Dahmer had no mental illness and was found sane for trial. He did have several personality disorders (as most serial killers do), but personality disorders are not "mental illness" that makes them ineligible for the death penalty. I just don't think Wisconsin had the death penalty at the time. It is odd that in the past, serial killers were often executed, but now it seems rare that they receive death sentences. Bernado is certainly someone that I believe should have been executed (if he had committed those crimes in the U.S.). He was sane, cold and calculating and can never be rehabilitated.

By the way, most prisons in the US are not private-for profit. Those that are I believe should be highly scrutinized. But private prisons have nothing to do the capital punishment.

 

[Boxlicker101]

WI is one of those backward states that does not have a death penalty In Dahmer's case, another prisoner meted out the proper punishment.

 

[Paintingwithautumncolours]

Its unfortunate that more criminals aren't executed. Plus once convicted they spend too much time alive on death row. Pass the guilty verdict, then take the fucking scum outside and shoot them. Its quick, its easy, it saves the State money, plus there is one less scumbag in the world.

 

[lynn-23]

I'm certainly in favor of giving condemned prisoners appropriate appeals and all the due process. Its necessary and responsible if we are going to use capital punishment. But certainly the appeals process can be much quicker.

 

[The_Trouvere]

Dahmer and his ilk are just plain sick in the head.
You can't execute mentally deranged folk.

Executing the biologically deficient prevents them from spreading their bad
genes.

 

[jaF0]

I'm certainly in favor of giving condemned prisoners appropriate appeals and all the due process. Its necessary and responsible if we are going to use capital punishment. But certainly the appeals process can be much quicker.

Civilized nations do not engage in Barbarism.

 

[phrodeau]

Executing the biologically deficient prevents them from spreading their bad
genes.

You could just cut off their balls.

http://www.uvm.edu/~lkaelber/eugenics/

 

[Hard_Rom]

Civilized nations do not engage in Barbarism.

Who says the US is a civilised country?

 

[milehighcityman]

Who says civilized nations don't execute horrific criminals?

 

[Hard_Rom]

Who says civilized nations don't execute horrific criminals?

Uncivilized countries.

 

[Chris_Michael]

Is that how you see yourself? As someone in danger of losing his land to Muslim invaders? You're worse than my previous assessment of you.

No, but what good can come out of it? We can't even afford what we have now.

What about the refugees? Are you going to house little Yusef and his family? If not, why?

If I have to sign up for this supposed World War III, then you have to sign up to house a refugee family. When you do that, I'll sign a woman up, in my place, for WWIII... because I'm not a misogynist like you.

 

[phrodeau]

No, but what good can come out of it? We can't even afford what we have now.

What about the refugees? Are you going to house little Yusef and his family? If not, why?

If I have to sign up for this supposed World War III, then you have to sign up to house a refugee family. When you do that, I'll sign a woman up, in my place, for WWIII... because I'm not a misogynist like you.

If Yusef is a good cook, sure.

 

[urguyscott]

It recently came to my attention that the U.S. is the only Western Industrialized nation to still openly practice the barbaric act of executing citizens.

Only a few Eastern industrialized countries have it, but they don't really use it.

"The only other country in the Americas to have performed an execution in the last 10 years is Saint Kitts and Nevis, in 2008."




It's a tool for terrorists and Middle East countries stuck in the dark ages.

It's nice to be stupid and uneducated. Have you checked with the people of China, the Middle East, Cuba, Iran, North Korea etc.? And name one communists country or fascists country that really has a fair trial? Tell me something. If a cold blooded murder kills members of your family, will you "turn" the other cheek and allow him to live in your home? You want criminals to not be held responsible. Life in prison is cruel, what is worst is that the lawyers and judges allow criminals to life in death cells for ten, twenty years or more before they get off their ass and make a decision on appeal. That is against the constitution for quick and speedy trials. Appeals (which they don't have in the majority of the world) are allowed all murders who are convicted. These appeals should be done as quickly as possible while the convicted can still get a fair hearing from any witness or evidence instead of waiting 20 years. And the victims and their family's and friends deserve justice.

But lets look at the math. A person who is guilty beyond a doubt of cold blooded murder is either sent to death or life or 2 to 3 years in prison. How many of those who were executed ever killed again? How many of those who weren't executed have killed again either in prison or gotten out to kill again? Simple math.

You say nothing about the victims. The innocent people who these murders have destroyed. The families they have destroyed. The murders didn't give them a fair trial or a chance at deciding if they wanted to live or not.

And I also notice you don't complain about cities and politicians like those in Chicago, etc. that lift a finger to protect their people, but do all they can to protect the murders. Are you an innocent or a criminal? Makes us wonder.

 

[Boxlicker101]

It's nice to be stupid and uneducated. Have you checked with the people of China, the Middle East, Cuba, Iran, North Korea etc.? And name one communists country or fascists country that really has a fair trial? Tell me something. If a cold blooded murder kills members of your family, will you "turn" the other cheek and allow him to live in your home? You want criminals to not be held responsible. Life in prison is cruel, what is worst is that the lawyers and judges allow criminals to life in death cells for ten, twenty years or more before they get off their ass and make a decision on appeal. That is against the constitution for quick and speedy trials. Appeals (which they don't have in the majority of the world) are allowed all murders who are convicted. These appeals should be done as quickly as possible while the convicted can still get a fair hearing from any witness or evidence instead of waiting 20 years. And the victims and their family's and friends deserve justice.

But lets look at the math. A person who is guilty beyond a doubt of cold blooded murder is either sent to death or life or 2 to 3 years in prison. How many of those who were executed ever killed again? How many of those who weren't executed have killed again either in prison or gotten out to kill again? Simple math.

You say nothing about the victims. The innocent people who these murders have destroyed. The families they have destroyed. The murders didn't give them a fair trial or a chance at deciding if they wanted to live or not.

And I also notice you don't complain about cities and politicians like those in Chicago, etc. that lift a finger to protect their people, but do all they can to protect the murders. Are you an innocent or a criminal? Makes us wonder.

Basically, I agree with you but let's stick to the subject. None of those places you mention can be called an "Industrialized Western Nation."

ETA: Belarus is the only nation in Europe that uses the death penalty.

I have no objection to serious appeals but, to be honest, must appeals are pointless except for delaying justice and making more money for the defense shyster. Things such as misconduct by the prosecutor or judge or perjury by a witness or new evidence might be good grounds for an appeal, but I have seen and read about some that were ridiculous. There ought to be a way to prevent such things, such as holding a defense lawyer in contempt of court for making such claims.