To the Critics....

[Liar]

Can we be elliptic instead of oval?

All those round shapes are boring. I want an octagon.

(and on which side of it do I belong? I've been both praised and critisised by the YDDmeister and the rest of you. help me out here. It's 2.30 in the morning, and I'm sleepless dizzy, have a bad green tea trip and a muse that ran away with the postman yesterday, so I need a grip somewhere. An oval - or octagon - might help.)

 

[minsue]

Re: Re: poem~

And where are my groupies?! I want groupies dammit!

*jumping up and down waving hands in the air*

*SWOON!*

 

[WickedEve]

All those round shapes are boring. I want an octagon.

(and on which side of it do I belong? I've been both praised and critisised by the YDDmeister and the rest of you. help me out here. It's 2.30 in the morning, and I'm sleepless dizzy, have a bad green tea trip and a muse that ran away with the postman yesterday, so I need a grip somewhere. An oval - or octagon - might help.)

You should part of an isosceles triangle.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Re: Re: poem~

1. Ok, now I've read all the comments on her poems, and I didn't find a single one slamming her writing and/or person. So frankly, what are you talking about?

2. How could YDD take into consideration something that YDD have no possible way of knowing? And what does a literary degree have to do with anything here? (Or in Lauren's words: Uh?)

3. Where is this imfamous oval, ellips, circle thingamajig in which poets do nothing than pat each other's backs and shut other's out? No, really tell me, straight on, because I don't get it. Someone draw me a map.

Not trying to argue here, just throwing out questions trying to understand your reasoning, which I must say is pretty alien to me. You know how it goes, if you don't ask, you will never know.

#L

ps. The puffin' thing? Oh forget it, if you can't recognise a friendly joke littered with and I might add, when it jumps up and bite you on the nose, then I won't even try anymore.

pps. All this debating has kept me way too busy. I've got to get back to writing some more poetry...

ppps. And where are my groupies?! I want groupies dammit!

liar~
Let me take you by the hand and try
to lead you thru this...

There's a circle...ok oblong...well it turned into
a elliptic...a sphere a round thing...a gathering
in a circle of peolple...well this case a forum..
with me so far??????

never mind your nose is on your face...
look in the mirror as for the mind...well
puffin to much I presume

And if your defending YDD then you'll
not see a fault in his critic. of about 500
and something comments...that I have only
gone thru about half to find that he doesn't
explain how to do it right...just picks at it
with negative approach which is his charactor.

Look at ...well you have noticed I'm sure that
WICKED'S and TRISTESSE have a nicer way of
going about it...but I haven;t read one darn
thing to show this mans compassion...wait he
favors woman...well men do that...and his
negative or picking out structure or meters
or flow is unproven just a man trying to beat
jim in the feedback portal...

Now a literary degree..obviously you don't
have one or you would know what they are.
so thats a waisted breath....

any other questions????that I might try and
open your puffin eyes to???.LMAO...

which I found very humorous...

kindly Liar..honestly...you have claimed
you don't know this illusive person
with several identities..yet you take up for
him is it you like to argue or justification in
the oval...seriously...you seem to take my words
offensive in your playfull way...so fess up//

what is it that bothers you????
I don't want you upset with me with out
reason so tell me what it is???

believe me I'm a one man army I can take it.
I was looking to make you more comfortable
with my presence but a tiger in the hen house
would make a few nervous but I assure you
I'm not hungry I just ate...

smiles and wishing you to take a deep breath
and let it out...

 

[minsue]

I've tried to stay out of this. I figure it's none of my business and, hell, it just keeps getting uglier. I have reached the point where I must speak, though.

Art, friend , I don't see how defending the right of anyone to post a public comment makes one a groupie. Respectfully, I just don't understand where this is coming from. Like everyone else here, I don't know YDD. I do believe, however, that s/he not only has every right to comment when an author uses the "public comments" option, but that all of the comments by YDD that I have seen have been well written and helpful. This person goes out of their way to read and comment on so many poems. It amazes me and is, to me, quite touching.

I must admit I am more than a little confused at the consternation over it.



- Mindy

 

[WickedEve]

Re: Re: Re: poem~

Look at ...well you have noticed I'm sure that
WICKED'S and TRISTESSE have a nicer way of
going about it...but I haven;t read one darn
thing to show this mans compassion...wait he
favors woman...well men do that...and his
negative or picking out structure or meters
or flow is unproven just a man trying to beat
jim in the feedback portal...

He favors women? Honestly, I'm sure that picture of my ass with "Be kind to my poetry" written across it had nothing to do with anything.
I am now returning to the warmth of whatever our shape has shifted to.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Hey Minsue~

Hey Min~

Ok I'll quit roaring for you...
I see it differently and can't change
the minds with out roaring then its
not worth it but before I wrote my
Poem YDD is a ying yang...I researched
his charactor to get my poem and
you don't seem to mind that he hides
under another name and wants nothing
more than to pick at poems..so be it...

I only question his charactor..you do not
that is fine...I'm happy to see ya...
and bow out gracefull...hope you like your
night nights...smiles....

walks away....grrrrrrrrrr....heheheheh

 

[minsue]

Re: Hey Minsue~

Hey Min~

Ok I'll quit roaring for you...
I see it differently and can't change
the minds with out roaring then its
not worth it but before I wrote my
Poem YDD is a ying yang...I researched
his charactor to get my poem and
you don't seem to mind that he hides
under another name and wants nothing
more than to pick at poems..so be it...

I only question his charactor..you do not
that is fine...I'm happy to see ya...
and bow out gracefull...hope you like your
night nights...smiles....

walks away....grrrrrrrrrr....heheheheh

Please don't misunderstand me, Art.

My intent is not to silence you or anyone else here. It is the opposite, really. I firmly believe that everyone has the right to voice an opinion. The only thing I ask is to keep personal insults out of it. It's unecessary and, shall we say, less than helpful. One does not need to be a fan of YDD or a personal friend to defend him or her. As in the past, this thread seems to have moved beyond discussing the pros and cons of criticism to insults and snide remarks. That was all that I found distressing.

And, yes, I love my night nights.

- Mindy

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Smiles~

Ok, that's more than fair...

I agree...purrs...lol

As I was just telling jim in a return PM
that my intent was not to cause a fuss.

I see this differently...
such is the way of the world...
I've done my homework...
I'm happy with my knowledge I needed
to do my poem...I done it...my work is done..
time to write another...mischievious grin~

Thanks Min~

 

[thenry]

Re: Re: Re: poem~

Now a literary degree..obviously you don't
have one or you would know what they are.

Much like publishing, I have seen where literary degrees are not synonimous with quality either. The most a literary degree helps with is reading poetry, writing comes from something else.

 

[Liar]

Re: Re: Re: poem~

Art, dear Art...

There's a circle...ok oblong...well it turned into
a elliptic...a sphere a round thing...a gathering
in a circle of peolple...well this case a forum..
with me so far??????

The ppl on this forum is the circle? Cool. You do know that everyone is welcome here, don't you?

Now a literary degree..obviously you don't
have one or you would know what they are.
so thats a waisted breath....

Huh? Did I say that I ddn't know what a literary degree is? Man, I must be more tired than I think. How does the PhD in comparative literature history that I'm working on qualify? All I said was that I didn't see why a literary degree would make anyone per se a good poet. Which is an opinion that I stand by, even you'd confront me with a professor on contemporary poetry.

any other questions????that I might try and
open your puffin eyes to???.LMAO...

Not today. I really got to hit the sack now...

For the last time: I have nothing against you. You have every right to think what you think about me, about YDD about poetry or life in general. But I don't understand you most of the time. I don't feel like I have to agree with people of make them agree with me, but I do feel the need to figure people out. You see some things very differently from me. To use your own words, certain patterns, where I see completely different ones. Bad guys where I see good guys - and vise versa I'm sure. And you have, in my eyes, peculiar ways of explaining and expressing your opinions some times. Honestly, in my ears, it's close to riddles sometimes, and with an attidude that is as much a mystery.

So what can I do? Well the only way to unravel a mystery is to ask the right questions, so I ask, until I find answers that makes me understand. If this in some is what irks into you into defensive stance over and over, then I apologize, that is not my intention. Only to get a litle wiser somehow.

So take it easy, have a beer, put up your feet and be as relaxed about all this as you can't see that I already am.

Now, I'm off to bed. Good night all.

#L

 

[echoes_s]

Re: Smiles~

I agree...purrs...lol

I've done my homework...
I'm happy with my knowledge I needed
to do my poem...I done it...my work is done..
time to write another...mischievious grin~

YOU are SO BAD Met...!!

 

[echoes_s]

I'm going to start quoting everyone's sayings to say evil things...

 

[Liar]

Re: Re: Smiles~

YOU are SO BAD Met...!!

help meee.... cant stop posting... need...to go... to sleeeep...

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Liar~

You got wit~

well I've honestly seen alot of wittyness
today and yesterday from this forum of
great poets...

I say this with past reads of a couple of
you I recogize...

I also take a stance to quickly ...
quoteing..you have to stand for something
or you'll fall for anything..

I also enjoy a good debate...smiles...

The main thing I have let escape me is
we all enjoy writing..our common trait..
for that we are here...smiles

I hope to read more of the works of the octagon
"ok" the great people of these threads...smiles..

And willing to help any one as I have and do
so very often just ask jo...elizabetht...jim
and any thread in my flag (signature)

drop by any time to any of them...smiles

Yes I've been told I'm a hard one to figure..
I don't walk the beaten path...
but I enjoy a good read and love to write...

thank you~

 

[echoes_s]

Re: Re: Re: Smiles~

help meee.... cant stop posting... need...to go... to sleeeep...

LOL Liar !!!

Go to bed sweetie! Now or I will find a way to spank you, just test things out *so wicked grin*

now

 

[echoes_s]

Re: Liar~

You got wit~

well I've honestly seen alot of wittyness
today and yesterday from this forum of
great poets...

I say this with past reads of a couple of
you I recogize...

I also take a stance to quickly ...
quoteing..you have to stand for something
or you'll fall for anything..

I also enjoy a good debate...smiles...

The main thing I have let escape me is
we all enjoy writing..our common trait..
for that we are here...smiles

I hope to read more of the works of the octagon
"ok" the great people of these threads...smiles..

And willing to help any one as I have and do
so very often just ask jo...elizabetht...jim
and any thread in my flag (signature)

drop by any time to any of them...smiles

Yes I've been told I'm a hard one to figure..
I don't walk the beaten path...
but I enjoy a good read and love to write...

thank you~

hmmm, was the kitty patted and fed his warmed cream?
I am a dragon, this one...

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Poems

Ok I wrote two poems...
and submitted them...
and as they come out and you read them...
you;ll know where they originated...
although I probably didn't have to drop the hint..

smiles...

A poem comes from with in the soul...
to the surface and typed or written
I can't pick them apart and rearrange
my thoughts our projected and placed
not reworked...smiles..its just me.

 

[mismused]

Maybe Elizabetht had something after all.

echoes_s,

My apologies for using your post in this manner, however, I wonder if elizabetht might have something verifiable after all, though not about whom she specifically mentioned.

I have read this thread of hers with casual interest. What my opinions might be about it in general I'll reserve, since that's not the reason for hijacking your post. However, you said something in this post below about YDD, and I remembered it.

To one and all, the question I pose here is did YDD act/post in a disingenuous manner on my poem below, plus one other question which will follow after I give you (any who might be interested) an opportunity to review what I'm saying first about the poem.

(BTW, echoes_s' post merely affords me the jumping off point from which to say what I have to say. In my opinion, echoes_s is the epitome of what all here should be like. She's a very lovely person, that is obvious, so to her, I do apologize for using her post.)

Here's what echoes_s said:


* * *
echoes_s
Really Really Experienced

"Well, what to say....?

Elizabetht, I do understand what you are saying here...
. . .
YDD, I love your comments, your honesty makes me smile although it seems to me there are a couple poems you do not understand (only my opinion) but it still makes me go back and look, and this is wonderful. Sometimes when you are frustrated it shows through with your comments, but that it is understanding because of the position you place yourself in, The Critic. You hold this very well and are a great tribute, continually challenging everyone to stop and think...even if only that. Do not stop either please, this is very refreshing and gives challenge to do better.

This is how I see constructive criticism...challenge to do better, taking what is said, brought to sight and working with it, to see if you can do better (not having to follow and do exactly what the person says, but finding your own voice and taking the example they gave you, expanding on it, most importantly keeping an open mind.)

When I see someone leave here, I feel sad and that a voice is lost, a personality, a heart, a song, a strength. When someone is hurting here, I feel this too...joyous, same, and more. This might only be poetry and words, but there are people behind these and we all contribute to each other and a community in one form or another here. Ok, maybe too sappy for some now...will stop here, but you get my point. . ."

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged
04-12-2004 10:27 AM

* * *

This post is due to elizabetht's post about critics who might not be so upright. As I said, I had no direct interest in this item here at first, but now I wonder.

I got two votes, and two ratings on my below poem. The first was by Annaswirls, who posted a comment, and a four vote. The next vote and comment were as follows:

* * *
"Sprung from Microsoft full blown "
05/02/04 by YDD
An interesting choice of words makes this poem very enjoyable to read.

But I can't find the "Goddess font" in my word processor program. Bill Gate's must be a monotheist."

* * *
From Lit FAQ's on public comments:

You must give a rating to the story to leave a comment. If you have voted on the submission previously, then the vote you leave with the comment will not count toward the submission's total.

* * *

In other words, the second post had to belong to the person who voted it a two since the average after two votes is now a 3.

Question 1:

Is the comment commensurate with the 2 vote? Or, is it more commensurate with being disingenuous/dishonest?

For the record, here's the poem:


Phoebe's Passion
by mismused ©

From Goddess font
denied the Gods,
ambrosial fragrance
makes this mortal divine.

Breathing the soul
of the love that flows
with passion sublime
from clime unsullied,

and knowing the fires
of Goddess immanent, with
each taste I deliriously shout
her name unknown to others.



I love you, my sweet darling Martine,

Phoebe


From: Vignette, Pt. 5, a story by mismused, to be posted soon.

Copyright. All rights reserved. No use without the express written consent of the author, mismused.

* * *

". . . makes this poem very enjoyable to read."

Really! An enjoyable read would seem more like a three then, or maybe even a four. A two is below the median. How could something below the median be "very enjoyable to read."?

"But I can't find the "Goddess font" in my word processor program. Bill Gate's must be a monotheist"

Really? Or is this just a bit of pretentiousness on your part, with maybe a dash of snobbery?
Gee, I got so much from this bit of "constructive criticism."

Methinks something is rotten in Denmark, or is it the Lit "critic?"

Somewhere else, in casual readings of this board (which I seldom do because this is only the second poem I've offered for reading in the poetry section), I read where someone commented that YDD's loss would be a terrible (my paraphrased word) thing. Would it? Really? Or was echoes_s really a bit kind and generous when she said:

". . .although it seems to me there are a couple poems you do not understand . . ."

How can someone who speaks one way and does another not understand?

Behold, Lit Poetry Forum, your critics God. Oh, I'm sorry, is "critics God" not "Sprung from Microsoft full blown ?" Or maybe ". . . I can't find the "Goddess font" in my word processor program. Bill Gate's must be a monotheist."

Okay, that's for openers. elizabetht, did you happen to answer my as yet unasked question before I asked it? You may have, my dear.

Here's my other other question/problem.

I'm primarily a story teller. To be more precise, a novice story teller. I wrote a story that I submitted in about 22 parts. It was/is a good story unless you just hate stories like that, but if you do, you wouldn't read them any further than the first one. Remember, there were about 22 parts to it.

A funny thing happened, and I kept noticing it. I'd get great reviews, and marvelous scores. Wow! Did that ever blow me up. Yes, I admit it, I was flabbergasted to find I'd been scored so well. Too well for some, it seemed. I'd get to where I'd be "hot" enough to be top rated, then I'd suddenly get low-balled with a 1 or 2 vote.

At first, it made me wonder. Being new, I just kept watching, writing, submitting, and answering e mails that told me I was right in thinking I had a pretty good story. But I got very suspicious when my chapter 9 suddenly got a 1 vote after being near the top for too long, I guess (it also happened again with that same story, but much later, on a later chapter).

As I said, not every story is for everyone, but none of my stories is deserving of a 2 vote, much less a 1 vote, at least not after the first chapter. If any don't like it, why would they "read" it unless it was just to vote it a 1 or 2? I think not. They don't read it, but just vote it for meanness, and/or to help themselves or their author friends (someone on either the AH or Story thread told about the "trolls" who do such as that/this).

So what does that have to do with poetry? More specifically, what does it have to do with this instance? Here's possibly what.

I set up to monitor part 3 of my new story, Vignette. It is the only one (in the Vignette series) to have full voting from the start (I set the first 2 parts with no votes, then changed them to voting when I put in part 3. Part of my plan of discovery.).

At 4:17 p.m. EST, May 2, part 3 had 1,934 views, 10 votes, and a score of 4.9. You don't have to be an MIT grad to figure out that could only be due to 9 votes of 5 each, and one of 4 (I can live with a four if someone honestly gave it, which I would guess they did).

At 7:12 p.m. EST, May 2, part 3 had 1,979 views, 11 votes, and a score of 4.64 (4.636). That could only be with a 2 vote. This is the same time frame that I found YDD's post and vote. Hmmm!

Okay, here it is:

YDD, come out, come out, wherever you're hiding, and answer these questions please:

1. Is YDD for "Yes, Deceitfully Disingenuous," or is there another explanation for the discrepancy between your score of 2, and ". . . makes this poem very enjoyable to read."

Would you please answer, or does the God Critic not submit to an earthly summons. Or do you need to check with Bill Gates first (you master God of Gods, I presume)?

(BTW, just between us, what is it that you don't understand about "Goddess font?" Haven't you ever been with . . . Oh, never mind. Be you man or woman, maybe you just don't know, poor thing.)

Now here's the last part for you, YDD:

Are you the one who gave me the 2 vote on "Vignette, part 3?"

I can't say that you did, but I can say that by the study of the scoring, and times, it all looks fairly suspicious that you might be the one. Might be, I said. Only you can say. Are you the same disingenuous person who rated my poem one way while commenting another way? I would think you'd want to defend yourself since there is strong circumstantial evidence that possibly points at you by time frames. Please tell me/us that you're not the/one of the sleazeball(s) that does these things. I'll gladly take your word for it (but not on the poetry part).

Come out, come out, YDD, and let us hear from you, or do you just hide in your secure corner of darkness, and let your disingenuous keyboard do your thing of its own free will without your knowledge?

To the rest of you, I repeat: "Behold your poet critic God." The critic also deserves to be scrutinized, and even criticized if applicable. Be sure to not be so high and mighty when you do say something. Better to say "Nice poem, I liked it," than drivel that satisfies your threatened, or insecure ego.

To echoes_s: I, as well as everyone here reads the goodness of your soul. Please forgive me for using your post to do this with. If you can't, I understand. I hope you understand that as a new author here (or anywhere), I'm very disenchanted, and somewhat upset, but that's not your problem.

To you others, it is not nice to know that there are such as these out there. The world is rotten enough as it is.

mismused

P.S. This is late due to weather, connection problems, etc.

 

[thenry]

Mismused, I left you a comment on your poem in order to test my memory. A vote is not required to leave a comment. "Thermometer" votes do not affect your tally and are present for a visual rate on the poster's, not the poem.

 

[My Erotic Tail]

Smiles~

Someone else did their homework too~

mismused ~

Bows Humble to you...grin

and Thank you...


I feel blessed at least the smokescreen
named individual gave me a 3 on one of
my better poems...also this shadow critic
come about at the same time the trolls
went rampant during the Earth Day contest
can't tie that together but the stink of the
whole thing all started at that time mid-april

I don't frequent poetry forum much so many
don't know me here I stay in the AH and my
other threads. I have my own playground
in the poetry forum...chasin' chickens where I
write my poems. Why has the TIGER come into
the circle? Because my research of this
shadow critic points this way in my hunting
of the truth of his intent and why he chooses
down vote others...my findings is his other
identity is well filled with his prides works
and his critic may come under fire and his
votes are sacred to him..as many. This
allows him the advantage of bringing others
down to bring his up. sorry but the sword of
truth may cut.

any way headed to work .....

Thank you again mismused~
very well put...hug...smiles..purring now

 

[Joseki Ko]

Poems and stories over a 4.5

Hey guy's got called to work last night and didn't get home till about midnight. LOL guess I should have check in then.

Mismused, you'll find that a story or poem tends to "Tank" when it get's over 10 votes and is rated above a 4.5. I've never really thought this was anything personal. It happens to everybody. I'll paraphrase oggsban from another thread. At one point he had submitted a story. It received its 10 votes, all of which were a 5. This story stayed at the top for several hours, and then the reads began to pick up and his story sank to a 4.3

This is actually something we all get. I've had it happen as well lol although I think my one staory was on a toplist for about 20 minutes and one vote doomed it to obscurity ;-]

In order for something to stay on the top list it has to be truly incredible.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Mismused-

With regard to your first question, as thenry said, the F.A.Q. isn't worded correctly. Yes, If you have voted on the submission previously, then the vote you leave with the comment will not count toward the submission's total. But, if you haven't voted, the thermometer rating will still NOT count toward the submission's total. They are two completely independent systems. The thermometer is only a visual aid to your comment, nothing else.

If you can't read But I can't find the "Goddess font" in my word processor program. Bill Gate's must be a monotheist" merely as a humorous line, I don't know what else to tell you.


As for your second question, I hate to break it to you, but happens to everyone the second you get your tenth vote and land on the top list. Anyone in the top list could have done it, any of their friends, and any one of thousands of readers who may not have liked your story - it happens - or even if they liked it, not liked it enough to agree with it being top of the list. Sorry...

 

[Joseki Ko]

Mismused-

If you can't read But I can't find the "Goddess font" in my word processor program. Bill Gate's must be a monotheist" merely as a humorous line, I don't know what else to tell you.

LOL are we back to your drinking problem?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Not yet.