Trademarks, Brand Names, Song Titles, and Specific Place Names

[gunhilltrain]

John Updike had a story called "A&P," which was set in a store of that now-defunct supermarket chain. I don't remember if he had permission to use the name. He certainly didn't make the company seem particularly fair-minded if I remember correctly.

Automobile makes, airlines, railroads, real-life bars and restaurants, brands of liquor and beer, fast-food restaurants, and so forth seem to make it into fiction - and songs - all the time. (Corvette, Texaco, and Burlington Northern are in Tom Waits's "Gun Street Girl;" that just came to mind.)

If you stay away from Disney and a few others, you should be okay.

I know one site that absolutely forbids a single song lyric line. On Literotica, I've used up to four lines (possibly more at times) and no one has made a fuss about it.

 

[SouthernCrossfire]

I know one site that absolutely forbids a single song lyric line. On Literotica, I've used up to four lines (possibly more at times) and no one has made a fuss about it.

FanFiction dot com is like that, not a single line or your story will be deleted if discovered, UNLESS the song is in the public domain. I found a humorously racy song from the 1890s that's in the public domain so parts of it were used for a dancehall-type scene in a western story I published there. In case there was any question, I included the public domain certification from the public library that has it in their collection in an author's note.

I wouldn't hesitate to use trademarked products in a story (it's free advertising) unless they're being used disparagingly, but using parts of songs (or anything else) that are still under copyright protection can open up authors (and potentially websites) to suits if there's a potential profit to be made, so I stay away from them.

 

[gunhilltrain]

FanFiction dot com is like that, not a single line or your story will be deleted if discovered, UNLESS the song is in the public domain. I found a humorously racy song from the 1890s that's in the public domain so parts of it were used for a dancehall-type scene in a western story I published there. In case there was any question, I included the public domain certification from the public library that has it in their collection in an author's note.

I wouldn't hesitate to use trademarked products in a story (it's free advertising) unless they're being used disparagingly, but using parts of songs (or anything else) that are still under copyright protection can open up authors (and potentially websites) to suits if there's a potential profit to be made, so I stay away from them.

I have to wonder, are all those songs on YouTube there with permission? For a while, certain artists (Bob Dylan), or his record labels at least, would clear them out, but there seems to be much less of that now. It's pretty hard to not find a particular song on YouTube. Often there are several versions - different albums, live performances, etc.

 

[KeithD]

My guess is that most of them are illegal and musicians have just been overwhelmed in any attempts to police them.

 

[jehoram]

John Updike had a story called "A&P," which was set in a store of that now-defunct supermarket chain. I don't remember if he had permission to use the name. He certainly didn't make the company seem particularly fair-minded if I remember correctly.

You're probably safe with defunct businesses, since it's hard to imagine them taking umbrage. I set a few scenes of one of my stories at a Woolworth's lunch counter. It was set in the late 1960s. I don't think there's a Woolworth's open anywhere in the US now. I think there may still be one in London, but I doubt if it has a lunch counter, and it's far from the Los Angeles area, where the story takes place.

 

[KeithD]

You have no trouble with an existing business unless you've done something that will significantly hurt their profitability. This is the way it is; it's no help to writers to chip away at the way it is when the way it is gives them writing freedom.

The marketplace anthology I'm working on now--at a honking 170,000 words--is unabashedly titled "Trojan Magnum." Even though this will be in the marketplace and not on a free-read, no profit Internet site, I don't foresee a bit of trouble. If anything, it's good advertisement for Trojan.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I have to wonder, are all those songs on YouTube there with permission? For a while, certain artists (Bob Dylan), or his record labels at least, would clear them out, but there seems to be much less of that now. It's pretty hard to not find a particular song on YouTube. Often there are several versions - different albums, live performances, etc.

These days a lot of them have retroactive permission. When the rights owner reports an illegally uploaded song/video, they have the option to get it taken down, but if both the rights owner and the video poster agree, they can opt to leave it up but have ad money from the video go to the rights owner. I think labels are a bit more willing to take that option these days, which might be why you're seeing more third-party uploads.

This also gets abused by people who aren't the rights owners, often in cases where the work is so old it's long since passed into the public domain - they make bogus claims of rights ownership, and often the video posters will just give in and agree to monetisation rather than fight it, because YT isn't particularly good at distinguishing bad-faith claims from genuine owners, and if you fight those claims and lose you can get banned.

And sometimes the rights owners just don't care. Different artists have very different ideas about whether unlicensed stuff on YT is a net good for them. Some see it as promotion that helps them find audiences who will eventually buy stuff. I saw one band tell their fans "don't buy our record, pirate it and send us the money if you want" because they'd fallen out with their label.

 

[KeithD]

Titles can't be copyrighted. A few have been trademarked, but not enough to worry about.

 

[SimonDoom]

How does that work for using titles from other works? .

Not a problem. There's no copyright at all in a title.

A title can be trademarked when it is part of a series, like "Harry Potter And xxxx" So I wouldn't recommend writing a story called "Harry Potter and The Hot Huffinpuff Babe." But writing an erotic story called "Dust In The Wind" would not be a problem at all. There's no legal claim against you for that.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Woolworths closed down in the UK too about 20 years ago, and while some large branches had cafés I don't think any had lunch counters. Slush Puppy counters, for a little while.

My last story is basically an advert for Velcro as a BDSM tool. I had the person recommend it then cough and add 'perhaps I should say, 'hook-and-loop fastener, seeing as it's a brand name and all.' Which should calm them down if Velcro's lawyers.happen to find the story.

 

[ElectricBlue]

How does that work for using titles from other works? Not that I have any plans, but one of my stories is called 'Dust in the Wind', like the song by Kansas. Would I be allowed publish the story with this title? I think it is a very distinct title, and I'd assume that most people would make the link to the song.

Not if they don't know Kansas, they won't. I've listened to a lot of music over the decades, but I couldn't name a single Kansas song. Except Dust in the Wind, I guess, but I have no idea how it goes.

 

[jaF0]

My last story is basically an advert for Velcro as a BDSM tool. I had the person recommend it then cough and add 'perhaps I should say, 'hook-and-loop fastener, seeing as it's a brand name and all.' Which should calm them down if Velcro's lawyers.happen to find the story.

That company has been so aggressive in 'defending' their mark that I have chosen not to buy their product if I can avoid it.


The Mag-Lite guy was so vigorous in defending his product, he almost drove the company out of business. Several new brands popped up and people flocked to them.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It took me a long time to understand this title from one of the comments:

We're not in Kansas anymore ...

What, you don't know Dorothy?

Illustrates my point, though - not everyone knows movies, not everyone knows music. I worked with a bloke twenty or so years ago who had never heard of Pink Floyd, which I found hard to believe at the time. He was a Canadian engineer, though, so maybe that explained it.

I'd better duck now .

 

[PennameWombat]

Woolworths closed down in the UK too about 20 years ago, and while some large branches had cafés I don't think any had lunch counters. Slush Puppy counters, for a little while.
<snip>

Woolworths, aka "Woolies," is strong and thriving here in Australia.

Of course, it has zero to do with the US-based Woolworths chain. Apparently the founder in Oz liked the name on a visit to the US back in the, I think, 1930s. When he returned he founded his grocery store that's grown into one of the Big Two. The other being Coles. Although Aldi has made significant inroads in recent years.

So an Australian reader would most likely think of a typical grocery store when they see "Woolworths." The are plenty of department stores, some even have 'lunch counters.' But Woolworths ain't one.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I think someone has gone to Dunkin' Donuts in almost every story I've written.

 

[RetroFan]

Sometimes I'll use a specific brand name if relevant to a story set in the past. For example, in one story I wrote set in 1960 a grouchy high school teacher drives a Ford Edsel, and people laugh at him about it.

With copyrighted works I'll tend to be more careful, and often have fun making up fictional TV shows and movies for fictional famous people in my stories to star in. Recently I wrote a story set in 1977 where characters go to see a disaster movie called 'Earthquake Resort' which is a fictional movie I made up. I was quite pleased when people in the comments thought it was a real movie.

 

[BDSoMmers]

And take special care to avoid Disney trademarked or copyrighted properties. Disney is notoriously litigious, so referring to their property will trigger alarms.

Mickey has no sense of humour.

Oh well, so much for my story about sneaking around Disneyland having sex and doing all sorts of naughty things in the various secret or dark spots like the Haunted Mansion or the Magic Castle.

 

[LAHomedog]

Well, there's this:

View attachment 2128433

 

[SimonDoom]

Oh well, so much for my story about sneaking around Disneyland having sex and doing all sorts of naughty things in the various secret or dark spots like the Haunted Mansion or the Magic Castle.

This shouldn't be a problem at all.

Disney's trademark right gives it the ability to exclude you from using the Disney trademark in connection with offering similar products or services that would result in consumer confusion. It doesn't give them the right to stop you from writing a story about how you went to Disneyland and had sex with somebody.

 

[LAHomedog]

This shouldn't be a problem at all.

Disney's trademark right gives it the ability to exclude you from using the Disney trademark in connection with offering similar products or services that would result in consumer confusion. It doesn't give them the right to stop you from writing a story about how you went to Disneyland and had sex with somebody.

This is 100% correct. I am actually ex-Disney from the Eisner, Katzenberg era. There is nothing about their copyrights or trademarks that prohibits you from writing a story that takes place on any Disney property. You can also write a satirical piece about having sex with any character like Snow White, Ariel, or Jasmine, and also a parody.

Google "flash mountain." You'll find gobs of women going down the big drop at the end of Splash Mountain flashing their tits.

 

[BDSoMmers]

This shouldn't be a problem at all.

Disney's trademark right gives it the ability to exclude you from using the Disney trademark in connection with offering similar products or services that would result in consumer confusion. It doesn't give them the right to stop you from writing a story about how you went to Disneyland and had sex with somebody.

Fantastic! I'm glad that I kept my outline notes on that story. It's part of a series, yay!

 

[BobbyBrandt]

This is one of those things about which there is no substitute for good judgment.

Yes, it's true that an excessive and fetishistic use of brand names can date one's story. It may make much less sense to a reader 10 years from now. For instance, if 15 years ago you wrote a story that featured two people connecting over MySpace, there would be readers today who would say, "Huh? What's MySpace?"

But, for example, everybody knows what Disneyland is, and Disneyland isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You can write an erotic story about a sexual encounter that happens at Disneyland, and naming it and describing it will give the story a sense of place, and possibly even a little erotic zing. If you choose on the other hand to invent an entirely new theme park, number 1, it will take more effort, and number 2, it might have less erotic impact. It's a judgment call. It might be sexier to have 2 people get it on during the Pirates of the Caribbean ride than during some fictional ride you create. If you do so, Disney has no claim against you, even though some of its officials might find your story distasteful.

I still get feedback on a story element from eight years ago.

At the time a scene in the story took place, there were no locations for a particular fast food restaurant in San Antonio, Texas and this was used as a reason for a couple of characters to travel 300 miles. Since that time, this chain has opened several locations in San Antonio and readers continue to inform me of that fact.

 

[SimonDoom]

I still get feedback on a story element from eight years ago.

At the time a scene in the story took place, there were no locations for a particular fast food restaurant in San Antonio, Texas and this was used as a reason for a couple of characters to travel 300 miles. Since that time, this chain has opened several locations in San Antonio and readers continue to inform me of that fact.

That's funny, but, based on my experience, not at all surprising. It amazes me what bugs some readers.

 

[gunhilltrain]

That's funny, but, based on my experience, not at all surprising. It amazes me what bugs some readers.

I've got a Burger King mentioned several times in Maspeth, Queens. Is there really one there? I don't know and it wasn't worth researching. It's also a subsidary of some other company, but I can't figure out which one. So far neither readers nor the corporate owners have cared.

Note that this song (which obviously was made by some record label), mentions a lot of brand names, except it changed the name of Taco Bell only. Some lawyer must have gone through the list and that was the company that refused or asked for too much money. Digression: all of the visuals are aerial photographs, which is sort of neat.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

I read Webtoons, and sometimes the parodies are pretty funny. I was reading one recently and a character has a band poster for In This Moment, but it's At This Second, and he works at Spencer's Gifts... I mean Spenders...