Traits of a Submissive ...

[Whimsical_Enchantress]

I am curious because I've been exploring bdsm and the Power Exchange of D/s, and everything I have come to learn is that submission has various facets. A submissive person is someone who willingly submits to the authority of another. A submissive person enjoys being in a service-oriented mindset and finds peace of mind in taking orders from those he or she has placed in positions of power. This can be at home, in the workplace, among friends or in community relationships.

Healthy submissive relationships are conscious and consensual. In other words, one party has agreed to hold more power of one kind or another. The other party has agreed to submit. It is agreed upon by the individuals. During my exploration at LIT, it's been shared with me that submissive individuals don't have "rights" or "choice in a relationship." The idea has been implied that basically, 'the submissive is a doormat who has to tolerate poor behavior' and should automatically trust someone and just do what they expect or say.". This contradicts things I have studied and learned from friends I know in the lifestyle.

I would love to hear from people with actual experience what truly should be the expectation from a submissive and Dominant in this type of relationship. Thank you to anyone who can provide more clarity and insight!

.

 

[Acktion]

Fuck, no!

Whoops. My apologies. That came out a little more crasser than intended.

However, I stand by the sentiment.

A submissive is not essentially (or in any other way) a doormat unless they chose to be. Nor is there any requirement that the submissive must tolerate poor behavior they do not consent to. And finally, there is no instant trust and immediately kneel to kiss the ring.

Look, I've been heading down this gravel road (quite a bit of it on my face) for decades now. And I have held the submission of probably far more than all this fabulousness in my mirror warranted. Not least my wife/little/slave/submissive/best friend of two and a half decades until her death.

Is there a kernel of hardcore believers hiding 'neath the umbrella of BDSM? Certainly. Always has been. At least as far back as I've been in the game and even earlier based on my research. On both sides of the slash, believe it or not.

There is a reason us old fogies talk about SSC and RACK so damn much. Because the core of the system we believe is consent. Without it, there is nothing but abuse. And the worst abuses leave no physical marks.

IF the submissive believes and consents to automatically trust and follow someone who claims a Title, then it is not for me to say they are wrong to do so. If, on the other hand, the one who claims A Title then uses psychological warfare to wear down the will of a non-consenting submissive, then I firmly believe they are in the wrong.

Emotional blackmail is emotional blackmail, whether it is wrapped up and trimmed with the bow of BDSM or not and is never okay.

As for tolerating poor behavior... this can get a bit "iffy" from time to time. If the submissive does not clearly delineate it as part of their limits, then it is not fair to expect the uphill side of the slash to know it. Some of us are better than others at recognizing things not said, but it is a fool's errand to assume anything of the sort. When it is a clearly defined limit... it doesn't matter if it's a limit they don't agree with. It doesn't matter if it's a limit someone else might think is silly. It doesn't matter if no physical harm could come from violating such a limit. It is still a limit and is to be respected. Period.

So, where the Hell does this sort of belief system come from?

Some will say from PornHub, but I disagree. It's been around much longer.

Some will cite "toxic masculinity." But, I've seen it from the female Dominants as well. (And I know a few who reject Domme or Dominatrix, and will tell you in a hurry that they are Dominant or Dom.)

However... I'm not exactly sure I can completely agree that all healthy relationships are conscious and consensual.

As I mentioned earlier, I've been various D-types to sundry submissives over the decades. Depending on who is asked, I tend to be either a Master with Daddy tendencies or a Daddy with Master tendencies. This is not a hat or shoes I put on and slip off, but just a basic tenant of my personality. And it... bleeds out. Into every interaction eventually.

Similarly, I have associated with s-types who it is just as fixed, just as firmly ingrained in them to be submissive when a Dominant resonates.

And as a result, I admit I have looked up and realized that I've slid unwittingly into a platonic form with... well, I'm ashamed to admit I've completely lost count. I try not to do that. But, especially when a submissive resonates with me...

Well. Any road, I think I addressed this in a thread by Seela a couple of years ago on accidental submission. But, the root of my response was that when one or the other realizes that the relationship is tending that way, when they become conscious of it, they certainly should verify consent.

And it's probably time I shut the Puck... er, that is, I stop typing and let someone else have the floor.

May the sun be out of your eyes and the wind at your back for a brighter tomorrow than yesterday.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Run away and run away fast from the fraud who tells you that this is what a submissive is.

BDSM is a continuum and while there is no one right way to BDSM, there are definitely consistencies. BDSM must be SSC and RACK - Safe, Sane, and Consensual and Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Consent is so important, it is in both acronyms. There are definitely submissives who consent to a relationship as you’ve described, but the key is that they agree and consent to this; it is not prescribed to them as the only way. Others are service subs in the bedroom only (points at myself). Others are masochists who are more than down for some serious pain (ack! Hard limit for me, but I have a couple friends who live for this). For most, there is an agreed upon temporary power exchange, but some live this 24/7.

Submissives are not doormats. We are allowed limits and should have safe words that stop the play when we need it to. Trust and safety are extremely important.

Here’s a link to an essay on labels you might also like to read: Stella’s Essay

 

[IrisAlthea]

I am curious because I've been exploring bdsm and the Power Exchange of D/s, and everything I have come to learn is that submission has various facets. A submissive person is someone who willingly submits to the authority of another. A submissive person enjoys being in a service-oriented mindset and finds peace of mind in taking orders from those he or she has placed in positions of power. This can be at home, in the workplace, among friends or in community relationships.

Healthy submissive relationships are conscious and consensual. In other words, one party has agreed to hold more power of one kind or another. The other party has agreed to submit. It is agreed upon by the individuals.During my exploration at LIT, it's been shared with me that submissive individuals don't have "rights" or "choice in a relationship." The idea has been implied that basically, 'the submissive is a doormat who has to tolerate poor behavior' and should automatically trust someone and just do what they expect or say.". This contradicts things I have studied and learned from friends I know in the lifestyle.

I would love to hear from people with actual experience what truly should be the expectation from a submissive and Dominant in this type of relationship. Thank you to anyone who can provide more clarity and insight!

.

Please indulge my curiousity, where on Lit did you pick up the bolded ”nugget of wisdom”? Perhaps via PM?
There are some people here who rarely if ever post out in the open and often badmouth the people who do. It’s a good idea to consider their reasons for this and seek other inputs like you did here.

As for what will be expected from a dominant or a submissive, it will vary wildly from relationship to relationship and even over time in the same relationship.
The great thing about that is that you and your partner(s) get to figure out how yuo want to do it. That is also the difficult part, because there is no manual.

 

[Sir_Sonis]

Its very interesting to see many different interpretations of 'D/s' relationships,
With multiple interlexical view points.
Power exchange is simply individual's allowing themselves to be conduits.

to put as a sort of equation:
Power from D over s = manifested Power in the life of 's'
= 's' becoming 'S'

a slave once told me "the tighter my chains ; the more freedom I have"

 

[KatieDoes]

There are an unfortunate number of self proclaimed ‘Doms’ that are actually just selfish assholes who want to stick their dick in a woman without having to concern themselves with her needs or treat her as an actual person with agency. They think having a ‘sub’ is the solution.

They aren’t actually Doms, though. I refer to them as Dommy McDomPants, LOL.

Ill let the actual Doms explain their own perspective. One thing I do know is that subs aren’t doormats, and we don’t ever just submit to someone because they demanded it.

 

[Alostsoul]

I have been reading this...I just wanna point out there are good and bad doms...a good dom will dominate someone but if they are a good dom they care for their sub. This bond is special and a good dom/sub is about trust. The sub puts trust on the dom and the dom expects the sub to obey, the dom must trust the sub when they say enough. The object is pushing limits NOT breaking people or causing malicious pain. A good dom understands this and also acknowledges that in reality the sub has control with their safe word. Ok im done putting in my two cents cuz now I'm broke thanks covid

 

[PaxNurgle]

My thoughts: For what it's worth (and who am I anyway.)

A submissive believes it's better to give than to receive, but receives joy and pleasure in the giving.
A submissive is a people pleaser. One who wants to bring joy and satisfaction to others around them, make people happy, stand for their success.
A submissive wishes to do the right thing, and what is morally good and best for the group.
A submissive is open to learning and guidance to become a better human being.

There are good and bad aspects of this philosophy, one of which is the potential for being a doormat or taken advantage of. Thus, anyone identifying as submissive should be on guard. Another is being open to guidance but being misled to do immoral and destructive acts (either self-destructive or destructive to the greater good. An example of this is being drawn to a cult-like personality whose morals and goals are not always for the good.

I've deliberately avoided discussing specific kinks and bedroom dynamics in this post.

 

[EdwardsOtherSide]

Here's a subtle one;
A sub needs to understand and not abuse their power in the relationship.

Being a proficient Dom requires a lot of energy and a sub who constantly pressures for attention is not always what a Dom wants or needs.

The ability to keep a straight face is important too.
One partner, in a sincere desire to please me, wanted to do some very submissive role play. She couldn’t finish a sentence without giggling.
That just didn't work.

She was a delightful rope bunny though.

 

[EdwardsOtherSide]

I have been reading this...I just wanna point out there are good and bad doms...a good dom will dominate someone but if they are a good dom they care for their sub. This bond is special and a good dom/sub is about trust. The sub puts trust on the dom and the dom expects the sub to obey, the dom must trust the sub when they say enough. The object is pushing limits NOT breaking people or causing malicious pain. A good dom understands this and also acknowledges that in reality the sub has control with their safe word. Ok im done putting in my two cents cuz now I'm broke thanks covid

Well said.

 

[Erosfan]

Run away and run away fast from the fraud who tells you that this is what a submissive is.

BDSM is a continuum and while there is no one right way to BDSM, there are definitely consistencies. BDSM must be SSC and RACK - Safe, Sane, and Consensual and Risk Aware Consensual Kink. Consent is so important, it is in both acronyms. There are definitely submissives who consent to a relationship as you’ve described, but the key is that they agree and consent to this; it is not prescribed to them as the only way. Others are service subs in the bedroom only (points at myself). Others are masochists who are more than down for some serious pain (ack! Hard limit for me, but I have a couple friends who live for this). For most, there is an agreed upon temporary power exchange, but some live this 24/7.

Submissives are not doormats. We are allowed limits and should have safe words that stop the play when we need it to. Trust and safety are extremely important.

Here’s a link to an essay on labels you might also like to read: Stella’s Essay

This line in your post really caught my interest; "Safe, Sane, and Consensual and Risk Aware Consensual Kink."
You defined me to a tee. When my wife and I first got together, in our later years, we didn't waste time. We talked a lot about our sexual interests, kinks, fantasies and all. She was very sexual and I was as well. She claimed to not have any fantasies, but wanted to know mine.
I shared my fantasies with her and she was keen to listen and maybe, read between the lines.
My biggest interests are exhibitionism and CFNM. They pretty much go together. She would listen and even offer her thoughts and ideas as to how some of this might play out. I loved it.
In our talks, I told her, many times, that I would do anything she wanted, any time, anywhere. She learned that I had no limits with her and she used that to both our advantage. She was the one that kept us safe as she was always aware of potential risks. She pushed me to my limits and even beyond at times. I was her naked male and she used my exhibitionist tendencies to make sure I was seen at times of her choosing.
This was so wonderful and all possible because we talked, openly. She called me her slut and I loved it.

 

[Roughscrewu]

Submissive wives I have meet had lots of responsibilities at work and home.
Being Sub was Stress relief for them, not having to make any decisions while serving a Dom.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Here's a subtle one;
A sub needs to understand and not abuse their power in the relationship.

Being a proficient Dom requires a lot of energy and a sub who constantly pressures for attention is not always what a Dom wants or needs.

The ability to keep a straight face is important too.
One partner, in a sincere desire to please me, wanted to do some very submissive role play. She couldn’t finish a sentence without giggling.
That just didn't work.

She was a delightful rope bunny though.

Some dominant partners do want needy subs, though. There are a whole lot who like brats. I don’t brat, so it would never work for me, but I wouldn’t shame anyone who find this works for them in their relationship. While there are some behaviors that are just absolutely wrong, there is not one right way to BDSM. Finding a compatible partner is the magic.

 

[Whimsical_Enchantress]

Thank you ALL for your messages and things for me to consider! It is quite interesting though that in my pursuit for knowledge and gaining more insight into how D/s works online, it seems to have brought more "faux dominant" individuals into my PM box. There are some here who truly believe "giving orders to a stranger" is a wonderful introduction to a person. Others appear to believe sending an individual "punishment messages" for not responding to their messages makes them an attractive Dominant. To me, that is an indicator, to avoid them. Albeit, D/s is a special connection, I just wish people honored that, instead of making it look like a caricature of violence, bossing individuals around, and simply, using their ideas of bdsm as a way to belittle individuals and a consensual relationship built on the concepts of Connection, building a Foundation over time, and respect. This has been quite eye-opening for me, and luckily for me, I had some basic knowledge to fall back on, and the kindness of so many of you to thoughtfully share.

 

[jeff_is_smiling]

Thank you ALL for your messages and things for me to consider! It is quite interesting though that in my pursuit for knowledge and gaining more insight into how D/s works online, it seems to have brought more "faux dominant" individuals into my PM box. There are some here who truly believe "giving orders to a stranger" is a wonderful introduction to a person. Others appear to believe sending an individual "punishment messages" for not responding to their messages makes them an attractive Dominant. To me, that is an indicator, to avoid them. Albeit, D/s is a special connection, I just wish people honored that, instead of making it look like a caricature of violence, bossing individuals around, and simply, using their ideas of bdsm as a way to belittle individuals and a consensual relationship built on the concepts of Connection, building a Foundation over time, and respect. This has been quite eye-opening for me, and luckily for me, I had some basic knowledge to fall back on, and the kindness of so many of you to thoughtfully share.

I like how you think. You'll find what you seek.

 

[Misscontent]

Bdsm

Hello all,
It's really nice to hear your wonderful and informative opinions and thoughts on the ways a dominant/submissive relationship could play out.

I've published a couple of stories under the BDSM tag trying to explore this topic.

The stories follow the traditional gender stereotype of a male dom and a female sub. But the underlying thread is that the sub actually controls the Dom, because the Dom is so simplistic and obvious in terms of his approach, needs and desires.. The sub is much more complex and bsically undescipherable from the dom's perspective.

I'd be interested in any feedback because I'm ready to write the next chapter in my Art & Stefanie series.

With love and a soft kiss,

MissC

 

[IrisAlthea]

Thank you ALL for your messages and things for me to consider! It is quite interesting though that in my pursuit for knowledge and gaining more insight into how D/s works online, it seems to have brought more "faux dominant" individuals into my PM box. There are some here who truly believe "giving orders to a stranger" is a wonderful introduction to a person. Others appear to believe sending an individual "punishment messages" for not responding to their messages makes them an attractive Dominant. To me, that is an indicator, to avoid them. Albeit, D/s is a special connection, I just wish people honored that, instead of making it look like a caricature of violence, bossing individuals around, and simply, using their ideas of bdsm as a way to belittle individuals and a consensual relationship built on the concepts of Connection, building a Foundation over time, and respect. This has been quite eye-opening for me, and luckily for me, I had some basic knowledge to fall back on, and the kindness of so many of you to thoughtfully share.

There is a place to repost them, without their name, so others can laugh at it too.
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1434926

Something to ponder though is that it must work for them to send things like that and more often than you’d think (or at least than I’d like to think), or they wouldn’t keep doing it.

 

[touche]

Similarly, I have associated with s-types who it is just as fixed, just as firmly ingrained in them to be submissive when a Dominant resonates.

I completely understand this... As a naturally submissive woman I find myself drawn to and responding better to naturally Dominant men (and women). It just part of who I am...

Submissives are not doormats. We are allowed limits and should have safe words that stop the play when we need it to. Trust and safety are extremely important.

THIS! This is so very important safe words are so important, but just as important is trusting the Dominant you are with will need your call for a ceasing or at least a slowing of the action when you use that safe word.

...I just wanna point out there are good and bad doms...a good dom will dominate someone but if they are a good dom they care for their sub. This bond is special and a good dom/sub is about trust.

Caring goes both ways in a D/s relationship. It's not just about rough sex and giving/taking orders. Some D/s situations can be incredibly intense and a true Dom knows this and is just as capable AND willing to be tender with their s.

...To me, that is an indicator, to avoid them. Albeit, D/s is a special connection, I just wish people honored that, instead of making it look like a caricature of violence, bossing individuals around, and simply, using their ideas of bdsm as a way to belittle individuals...

Sadly too many Dommy McDompants (OMG Katie, I love that, btw...) crawl out of the woodwork when a woman expresses an interest in D/s. Most of them don't have a clue though. I have been away from Lit for a while but it's wonderful to know that there is still a great group of people looking out for those folks looking to explore the world of BDSM.
Makes my submissive heart sing!

 

[Primalex]

During my exploration at LIT

Maybe you should have explored more than your inbox.

 

[Goldenfinger]

You have to remember a lot of the so called doms here get their ideas from the extreme memes they see here.

 

[BluegrassBelle]

Fuck, no!

Whoops. My apologies. That came out a little more crasser than intended.

However, I stand by the sentiment.

A submissive is not essentially (or in any other way) a doormat unless they chose to be. Nor is there any requirement that the submissive must tolerate poor behavior they do not consent to. And finally, there is no instant trust and immediately kneel to kiss the ring.

Look, I've been heading down this gravel road (quite a bit of it on my face) for decades now. And I have held the submission of probably far more than all this fabulousness in my mirror warranted. Not least my wife/little/slave/submissive/best friend of two and a half decades until her death.

Is there a kernel of hardcore believers hiding 'neath the umbrella of BDSM? Certainly. Always has been. At least as far back as I've been in the game and even earlier based on my research. On both sides of the slash, believe it or not.

There is a reason us old fogies talk about SSC and RACK so damn much. Because the core of the system we believe is consent. Without it, there is nothing but abuse. And the worst abuses leave no physical marks.

IF the submissive believes and consents to automatically trust and follow someone who claims a Title, then it is not for me to say they are wrong to do so. If, on the other hand, the one who claims A Title then uses psychological warfare to wear down the will of a non-consenting submissive, then I firmly believe they are in the wrong.

Emotional blackmail is emotional blackmail, whether it is wrapped up and trimmed with the bow of BDSM or not and is never okay.

As for tolerating poor behavior... this can get a bit "iffy" from time to time. If the submissive does not clearly delineate it as part of their limits, then it is not fair to expect the uphill side of the slash to know it. Some of us are better than others at recognizing things not said, but it is a fool's errand to assume anything of the sort. When it is a clearly defined limit... it doesn't matter if it's a limit they don't agree with. It doesn't matter if it's a limit someone else might think is silly. It doesn't matter if no physical harm could come from violating such a limit. It is still a limit and is to be respected. Period.

So, where the Hell does this sort of belief system come from?

Some will say from PornHub, but I disagree. It's been around much longer.

Some will cite "toxic masculinity." But, I've seen it from the female Dominants as well. (And I know a few who reject Domme or Dominatrix, and will tell you in a hurry that they are Dominant or Dom.)

However... I'm not exactly sure I can completely agree that all healthy relationships are conscious and consensual.

As I mentioned earlier, I've been various D-types to sundry submissives over the decades. Depending on who is asked, I tend to be either a Master with Daddy tendencies or a Daddy with Master tendencies. This is not a hat or shoes I put on and slip off, but just a basic tenant of my personality. And it... bleeds out. Into every interaction eventually.

Similarly, I have associated with s-types who it is just as fixed, just as firmly ingrained in them to be submissive when a Dominant resonates.

And as a result, I admit I have looked up and realized that I've slid unwittingly into a platonic form with... well, I'm ashamed to admit I've completely lost count. I try not to do that. But, especially when a submissive resonates with me...

Well. Any road, I think I addressed this in a thread by Seela a couple of years ago on accidental submission. But, the root of my response was that when one or the other realizes that the relationship is tending that way, when they become conscious of it, they certainly should verify consent.

And it's probably time I shut the Puck... er, that is, I stop typing and let someone else have the floor.

May the sun be out of your eyes and the wind at your back for a brighter tomorrow than yesterday.

I hope you don't take offense, as we don't know each other, but I had to say that this post has made me fall in love with you (or at least your Lit persona) just a little.
Beautifully stated!

 

[Goldenfinger]

You have to remember a lot of the so called doms here get their ideas from the extreme memes they see here.

There are also a lot of submissives here that want to be but only with what they tell you to do. (Leading from the bottom)

 

[IrisAlthea]

You have to remember a lot of the so called doms here get their ideas from the extreme memes they see here.

There are also a lot of submissives here that want to be but only with what they tell you to do. (Leading from the bottom)

A lot of people in general seem to think they need to choose one of the labels when it’s actually about certain things they want - or as a way to fit in or just getting some.

 

[SissySalina]

"I would love to hear from people with actual experience what truly should be the expectation from a submissive and Dominant in this type of relationship."
A submissive should be able to TRUST the Dominant to have the best interest of the submissive in mind at all times.
A Dominant should be able to TRUST the submissive to relinquish control to the Dominant without question with the knowledge that the Dominant will be responsible for caring for the submissive.

 

[EdwardsOtherSide]

"I would love to hear from people with actual experience what truly should be the expectation from a submissive and Dominant in this type of relationship."
A submissive should be able to TRUST the Dominant to have the best interest of the submissive in mind at all times.
A Dominant should be able to TRUST the submissive to relinquish control to the Dominant without question with the knowledge that the Dominant will be responsible for caring for the submissive.

"...with the knowledge that the Dominant will be responsible for caring for the submissive."
This. The Dom needs to be worthy of trust.

Which speaks to the issues about pseudo-dominants and wannabe dominants.

I think a lot of the so-called dominants are Incels who want a more acceptable label, but don't understand or won't accept the profound responsibilities of being a Dom.